David Morris (Login Dave_Morris) Registered Users from IP address 62.30.139.151
Not wanting to hijack Tim`s progress report i will start a new thread on this subject, so here goes.
You guys who mentioned the Marquette T40 tracks got my grey matter working and you may have solved my problem, if only for a couple of builds.
I know where i can lay my hands on a couple of very reasonably priced Marquette T37A`s. The tracks (on the real thing)look the same pattern as a Valentine`s but would the width be correct for 1:48th? Has anyone got ny wisdom to share on the subject?
I don`t rivet count so near as dammit will do, as long as they will look right when in place that will do for me.
The fruilmodel tracks are quite expensive in the UK and so are not an option i would consider.
I have looked again at the images and drawings available on the web, and it appears you are pursuing the wrong kit. The T-37/T-37A/T-38 amphibious light tanks all used a track that is narrower than the Valentine track you need, and their tracks are pure skeleton tracks, without the side feet/ledges that widen the tracks and make them look like Valentine tracks. I am afraid these tracks would be better for German PzKpfw IIs.
As I mentioned on the other thread, Maquette makes a model of the T-40 amphibious light tank that appears to use the same tracks as as the T-60 through T-80 light tanks. I looked at every museum and wartime photo Google could conjure up, and that is the result as I saw it.
The Maquette T-40 is for sale at Squadron for $4.99 USD in the February sales flyer. I have ordered six of them, as that will be enough to shoe the five Bandai Valentines I have, and it was only $30.00 plus sales tax (I live in Texas, which is where Squadron is located) and shipping, $40.00 total. So, for less than $7.00 each, I have tracks for my Valentines. The Maquette T-40 tracks are link and length, so they will not be as fiddly as all-independent links. They should be good, especially after weathering, and I'll have them by the end of the week.
I will report on whether or not they are suitable. I do hate to trash almost complete tank kits just for the tracks, so I may harvest other parts that could be used in some other 1/48 project (probably a hopeless quest). The Bandai Valentine kit tracks are 7mm wide, a hair over 1/4", and would scale out at 13" or so. We'll see what the Maquette tracks look like in a couple of days. HTH, BC
I have a few sets of the T-70 track and I have noticed that the Valentine wheel will not fit between the horns without a little sanding. It's almost, but not quite perfect. At least it easily solved with a file!
Following up on your idea I found this post that suggests that the tracks from the T-40 will work as they are the same as the T-60 and the T-70, and offers another AM source for them if you like.
Found this review of the AM track noted in the link in my last post on the Perth Military Modeling Site (thanks Terry) and if they can be found, these resin tracks look like a viable (not to mention more economical than Friuls) alternative too.
I've used the Techmod T70 track on my Valentine, and yes, the road wheels are a bit too wide so a bit of sanding is required. I think you're meant to take down the guide horns as well a bit. I didn't, so once it's finished, feel free to point that out...
Looking at the price I had to go for your idea Bruce – so I ordered a T-40 from Squadron for my Valentine. For the good of the order I will report on how this "track set" works.
Speaking of Valentines, does anybody have a picture of part A-12 for the Bandai Valentine, or the dimensions to create it - I bought my kit from Paul Freiler years ago and he had started it (very nicely) but both parts A-12 disappeared somewhere along the way (probably into his carpet ). Part A-12 is the casting that supports the front idler axle on the hull.
If anyone has a picture of the same part on an actual vehicle that would permit me to scratch them, that would be almost as good - any information on this subject would be much appreciated
Konrad, I have the kit, but my camera battery died and I don't have a website to post to anyway. I'm an Amish Luddite.... The piece looks like a miniature Saukopf mantlet for the StuG III G. It is 4mm wide, 6.5mm long and 5mm high, and the high part has a 2mm hole centered about 2.5mm from the end at the high end of the piece. The hole goes all the way through the piece, so it's 5mm deep. The whole thing is rounded like the Saukopf casting. That's about the best I can do until I find the recharger and get the camera going again. It's here somewhere, I know it..... Let me know of this is of any help at all.
That definitely helps - is the base that contacts the hull square(ish), oval, or something else? There is enough in your comments to begin fabrication though
Konrad, the base shape of the A12 parts is oval, almost flat on the sides. The ends are circular, and the whole piece is a slightly tapered near-cyindrical cone with the "saukopf" extension off to one end. Still haven't found my camera battery charger.... As I said, if you imagine a tiny, narrowed Saufkopf mantlet, and you'll be in the ballpark.
On a more wonderful note, I received my Maquette 1/35 T-40 amphibious tanks not 30 minutes ago and have already measured the tracks, which scale out at 15" (the Valentine tracks were 14"). These are very nice tracks, link and length, well molded, and most definitely useable. I think you'll be pleased. They are not as sharp as the Master Club tracks, but then they are not $21.00 a set either. Yes, you will have to sand the insides of the guide horns to fit the wheels, but it is a tiny bit - maybe 1/32" (0.75mm) and easy to do. The guide horns are too tall with rounded tops, so trimming them about 1/16" (1.5mm) will get them to the right height and the flat top contours you need. The horns don't have the lightening recess in the outer sides, but some Valentines seem to have had tracks that had plain, flat-sided guide horns, so you can at least claim it's historical.....
For those who have steady hands and nerves of steel, a Dremel tool with the flat end cylindrical reamer could touch them to the sides of the guide horns and put in the recesses in a short period of time. Not sure I have that much medicinal elderberry wine..... Squeezing the guide horns with round nose modeling pliers might also work, especially if you use a piece of thin hard metal to protect the inner faces of the guide horns. These faces will be the ones being sanded to widen the track for the wheels to fit anyway. For five bucks a set, it's "happy, happy, joy, joy" around Chez Culver.
These are superb, and being fopr the T-70M/T-80, they probably have the correct width and wider spaced guide horns. Of course, I didn't knowm about these when I ordered six T-40s from Squadron yesterday, and these tracks are $21.00 a set. They are seriously gorgeous though.
I have been looking at surviving examples on the 'net and they seem to have a variety of front idler axle attachments - any links out there to some detail shots of this part of the tank?
David Morris (Login Dave_Morris) Registered Users 62.30.139.151
Thanks guys,
February 15 2008, 3:58 PM
Thanks for the input, it is always nice to know that help is always at hand here at T48.
I looked at the T37 tracks and yep, they do look too flimsy so i have taken Bruce`s advice and ordered 3 of the Marquette T40`s from Squadron, which even with the Airmail costs to the UK added, still comes in at a very acceptable price. And as suggested the left overs can always be stuck on Evilbay to re-coup some of the cost.
My friend will be seeing Nigel from Parabellum this weekend and is going to ask him if he has made any progress on the MiniArt tracks. If i learn anything i will let you know.
pete sheridan (Login redcoat1941) Registered Users 4.228.183.83
Following Bruce's lead...
February 17 2008, 2:33 AM
...as usual (hopefully not into the deepest elderberry patch)... I have also ordered the Maquette beastie. D'you suppose the guys at Squadron are wondering at the sudden popularity of an obscure Soviet amphib???
For those buying the Maquette T-40 kit currently on sale over at Squadron as a Valentine trackset, here is the relevant part of what you get:
The actual tracks are nicely moulded in link and length, and measure out at .320" to .325" wide, which translates to a little over 15" in scale, as compared to a nominal width of 14" listed on the internet sites I could find. The individual links are a little narrower at an average of .320," with the lengths running an average of .325" or a smidge more, so some of the excess width will be removed when sanding the lengths to match them to the individual links and to remove the moulding seams and the small amount of flash found on some. When this is done the end product should be within an inch of scale, which is not bad for a totally unrelated trackset
The link profiles are pretty good for the Valentine track, and fortunately do not have the holes moulded through on the outboard edges of each link, which would be wrong for the Valentine. Some may want to fill these holes, but I think they will disappear under a little paint and weathering. The track teeth are cast solid and are more triangular than those on actual Valentine track, with no evidence of an undercut on the outside face of each tooth nor is there any piercing on the track-face for the teeth, all which I fund acceptable for the price and scale. The basic outline is very close to the Valentine pattern used on the Mk. II and later vehicles, and will be a huge improvement over the basically crappy kit tracks. Moulding quality on the tracks in my sample was at least as good as Bandai’s.
The spacing between the track teeth is a little tight, so plan on sanding and filing where the road wheels will be fitted (I recommend widening the channel rather than narrowing the wheel for appearance sake). Also, as the pitch on the Maquette track is shorter than the Bandai parts, you will need to file and/or remove and reattach some of the sprocket teeth to match the replacement links. On the other hand the Maquette sprockets are nearly exactly the same diameter but have square rather than pointed teeth. Some may choose to modify and use them instead. Finally, there appears to be plenty of track in one Maquette 1/35 T-40 to shoe a 1/48 Bandai Valentine with links to spare, but plan on cutting some of the lengths to fit.
Re: Maquette Valentine Tracks (& T-40) Mini In-Box
February 20 2008, 4:07 AM
I sanded down the road wheels on my Valentine, you can't really tell looking at it. Unless everybody did notice it, think it looks cr*p, and just didn't tell me...
Nik, your Valentine looks just peachy! No need to apologize for anything. You found a set of replacement tracks and modified to fit. I applaud your frontiersman attitude to 'git 'er done!
Honestly, your Valentine is top drawer - it would be great if you would consider submitting a selection of images for inclusion in the Track48 Gallery.
As to the wheels vs. links thinning question, that was not a comment directed at your build - I think the Techmod T-70 tracks you used fit the Bandai wheels better than the Maquette T-40 parts seemed to in my initial examination. As a result, what was a minor issue for you with the Techmod tracks would require significantly more thinning of the (rare and valuable) Bandai wheels to fit the (cheap and easily replaced) Maquette parts. Moreover, the teeth on the Maquette parts are pretty beefy and would actually benefit from a little reduction. Finally, because most of the work is on the bottom run, this will be a quick job if you just wrap some 300 grit around an appropriately sized sheet of styrene and use it to sand the slot between the teeth to the proper width, and will even produce the rounded bottom to the wheel slot characteristic of Valentine track
So, considering all these things I recommended thinning the teeth on the tracks rather than sanding the wheels to fit the tracks if you decide to use Maquette T-40 tracks on a Bandai Valentine.
Anybody want to part with theirs...I'l pay the postage....and pick up a Fruil set at Amps.....Just let me know who wants to part with a couple......Bruce...??
OK Dave, I'll have a bunch. I have eight, but I want to see if the T-40 kit tracks will do a complete Bandai Valentine; I have noly five Bandai Vals, so I may have three intact T-40s and five with no tracks. We'll see. Konrad may get his done first.
OK Dave, I'll email you; the postage would be about $4.60-$5.20 for Priority for two kits depending on if I can keep the two of them under a pound in the box. In their own boxes, two T-40s weigh only 11.5 oz. I'll pack them and let you know tomorrow what the postage is.
David Morris (Login Dave_Morris) Registered Users 62.30.139.151
Update on tracks and PE sets
February 24 2008, 3:43 PM
Hi all. Just an update on what has been discussed on this thread and to say that i appreciate all the input on the track problem.
Initially i went down Bruce Culvers route and ordered 3 Marquette T40`s from squadron, at £15.00 including priority shipping to the UK i cannot grumble.
I agree that at first glances the tracks may require some work but are usable and the inboard holes that Bruce mentions only need to be filled where they can only be seen. The pattern is acceptable to me as i am not a rivet counter.
To further complicate matters, i have today, been to a UK modelshow at Crewe in Cheshire while there i was lucky (or stupid) enough to pick up both a Techmods T70 And a T70M. Both kits i got for a very reasonable price, so if they don`t work out i can stick em on Evilbay and rake my money back. The T70 tracks did not seem much better than the T40`s, though i`m assured that they are a better fit over the roadwheels. But the suprise was that the T70M had the usual track sprue plus a bag full of individual links which look a lot more acceptable.
I have not measured them for match but i got talking to Nigel Savage from Parabellum who recommended that i use the individual links in the T70M which also come in the Techmods T80.
I got into talking with Nigel about all things Valentine. Regarding the replacement tracks he was trying to get. He contacted the UK distributor for Techmod kits, who contacted Techmod and despite encouraging initial feedback from Techmod, they are now ignoring correspondance on the matter and it now looks dead in the water. On the PE front, Nigel approached Eduard about doing another run of PE frets for the which was also met with deadly silence. So he has approached Hauler who are up for it and are working with Nigel to produce a useful set of frets. If this works out he may get frets made for other ex-Bandai kits. However Nigel stressed that it is still in the R&D stage and money had not been discussed yet so it could still fall through.
While i`m banging on about Parabellum , today at the show he had a box full of Fumans Valentines for £6.00(GB), Scwimmingwagons for £1.00(GB) and Frog jeeps for £1.50(GB). The kits are in bags as there boxes have deteriorated in storage, instructions and decals are there too. If anyone is interested grab `em before they are gone.
Nigel had mentioned this before. I believe Hauler needs a production run of 100 PE sets to make a go of this, but perhaps Nigel can work out something a bit less extensive. Of course, while having modern PE for the better Bandai kits would be great, they are out of production, and anyone ready to commission new PE sets is taking a financial risk in that the supply of kits could run out before the PE sets are sold. Still, Nik G's superb Valentine in the gallery is a showpiece of what a good PE set can do to upgrade and improve even an old warhorse like this. Too bad the better Bandai models, the ones that would really benefit from PE, are mostly the later, very rare kits and available in very limited numbers. Go, Nigel....
The Maquette T-40 tracks fit pretty well - amazingly the length of the short bottom runs is perfect! I have found so far that not only do the slots between the teeth need to be widened, but that the teeth themselves must be shortened - here is an in progress shot. One interesting thing I have noted in working with the Bandai Valentine is the number of small corrections needed beyond coming up with a trackset. Worth building but no Tamiya. And if you want sand skirts (which I do) – get out the Styrene sheet and some sharp tools
For those thinking about filling all the tiny holes not found in Valentine track, I tried a few and so far the process is just a Sisyphean task – way to time consuming to consider for an entire set. I am going to try dots of thinned putty next to see if at least they can be easily toned down. Although shortening the teeth is definitely worthwhile, for those who have suggested adding detail to the track teeth, I recommend against it for the same reason.
You will note that the return rollers had to be futzed with quite a bit - the slots are deeper than they need to be for the shortened teeth, but show what has to be done there to fit the Maquettte T-40 tracks. The center rollers must be spaced out to line up, BTW.
). Part A-12 is the casting that supports the front idler axle on the hull. 
As I said, if you imagine a tiny, narrowed Saufkopf mantlet, and you'll be in the ballpark. 
... I have also ordered the Maquette beastie. D'you suppose the guys at Squadron are wondering at the sudden popularity of an obscure Soviet amphib???
