(Login dostacos) Registered Users from IP address 71.116.163.34
First it is not nearly as accurate as TAMIYA kits, we know that because it does not have the metal chassis to enhance the kit's realism....sorry I just had to do that.
It comes with 2 sprues of plastic, upper and lower hull, a small PE set for the grills on the top hatch and decals for 2 DAK, and 2 Eastern front versions.
something you cannot see in pictures, the PE is thicker than the Tamiya 1/35 kit, it feels like it will bend easy { not get tweaked out of shape} but that is probably very subjective.
the back of the kit shows front, back and side views showing color and decal placement {color black for the tires and grey for everything else},
DAK 1941 modelmaster #2094 Schwarzgrau {German Grey?}
DAK 1942 modelmaster #2099 Africa Grunbraun {Dark Yellow?}
Russia 1942 modelmaster # 2095 Panzer Dunkelgelb main color
with a camo pattern in modelmaster #2094 Schwarzgrau
Russia 1943 also a camo pattern with modelmaster # 2095 Panzer Dunkelgelb main color
with a camo pattern of modelmaster # 2097 Oanzer Olivgrun
I am used to the Tamiya color call out so my translation is at best a guess.
attached are some pictures of the armored vehicle one has a size comparison with my 1/48 Grief halftrack WIP I am in the middle of a pair of firsts, the SuperPershing and the Israeli Sherman kit bash so it will be a while before I can get to the kit, but I think this will make a nice model especially if we grab that CD of pictures
"First it is not nearly as accurate as TAMIYA kits, we know that because it does not have the metal chassis to enhance the kit's realism....sorry I just had to do that."
Now don't be mean.
Hmm...some parts look a bit thick and simplified. Hauler and others should have a good time producing update sets for it.
I suspect that I will get a nasty case of AMS when I get my 222
Thanks for the pics!!!!! Here's the link to the 1/72 review article and pics. Do people think they are basically the same design and parts? http://henk.fox3000.com/Icm.htm
By the time I can get around to this there should be some AM parts out, but it sort of baffles me that they didn't put an interior in. If you want to get 1/48 going, then don't do it half-baked.
yes it looks like the guns are attached to a pedestal that is mounted on a NON scale flat plate on the inside of the turret the seats mount under the turret.
what does the turret shell look like? I am concerned that ICM molded the turret as one piece. Are the turret sides full thickness where they meet the strip for the gun mount? The turret should be open inside, with the sides forming angles out to the edges of the turret base plate. If that is a problem, putting in two crewmen and closing the greade screens would be the best way to go.
here are some shots of the turret.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
looking close on the angled turret picture you can just make out the barrel of the cannon and it is hollow {or opened up depending on how you want to describe it}
Well, it looks like a 222 (until Gaston gets wind of it), and it is decent raw material, something to work with. Better to look on the bright side as opposed to the "other scale" guys who would utterly flame on first sight. That turret, though... The term "monolithic" comes to mind. The PE looks cool, but I'm positive Jan can blow that out of the water, and more besides .
The price is of Tamiya proportions, but once the dew evaporates it will go down, I'm sure. Give it couple of months. Meanwhile, there's the Admiral to consider...
Imagine a scene outside a small bistro in France, with an Opel Admiral, a BMW 327, and a Citroen Traction all pulled in. The Luftwaffe Fliegerboys having a night on the town. 1/35 should be so lucky!
It is something to work with. There are many ways to go with the base vehicle including different visor styles, different turrets, etc.
I am disappointed by the gun mount but then again, I wasn't very happy with what Tamiya gave in the M8 either. I'll be getting a couple for sure, one to build basically OOB and the other to trick out. Looks like my summer is just getting busier and busier.
well since there is an exterior, by definition there must be an interior but other than a pair of seats at the guns it is pretty sparse... well except for some pin marks
It is very similar to the older 1/72 kit. The exterior shape looks pretty good in the photos, but the plastic does appear to be somewhat thick. This will complicate adding much interior detail because there won't be room for accurately scaled interior parts. However, the chassis looks decent and I suspect that, like the also simplified Tamiya M8 armored car, this kit will look fine with a crew in the turret, the screens lowered, and the hull doors closed. The PE turret screens look good too, and will definitely add to the appearance of this new model.
It does bear noting that the turret gun mount is completely fictional and there is no hull interior to speak of, as for the 1/72 kit. Whether or not the aftermarket folks do anything about this is up to them. The one-piece turret molding could be a problem if the turret walls are too thick, but for now there is no way to tell. One good thing is that the separate hull top plate means they could do the SdKfz 223, 260, and 261 eventually, or you could convert the latter two easily, as they were identical externally other than not having the rotating turret, but an open hull top protected by simpler anti-grenade screens. Note that some fairly simple changes to the turret mount and lower hull could give the impression of a proper floor-based mount for the whole gun assembly.
It may not be what some were hoping for: a scaled down Tamiya 1/35 SdKfz 222, but it is buildable into a good external replica, and for display and dioramas, that should do. I would expect Jan at Hauler to be slaving over a hot computer and cauldron of acid as we speak.....
Looks buildable to me. Now for something controversial - dare I say it - the simplicity is a plus. It means you can finish one or add to it as you see fit. Parts may be parts, but too many of them is a drag. And it won't embarrass the Bandais on the shelf. They were getting self conscious
Right on! As we sometimes forget, one of the attractions of 1/48 is that we don't have to deal with a gazillion and one parts OOB. Those who want to detail can do so, and those who want to build OOB can have their cake, too.
What a pity, I don't see a future in ICM doing further 1/48 kits. Can you honestly see these selling like Tamiya's kits? Now if it had been as nice and crisp kit as their figures... I can't believe that turret! I mean eeewww! Mind you it has one good point in that Jan and the other aftermarket people will have a fieldday doing the turret on this,and it will have the added benefit of being transplantable onto other vehicles seeing this was so wide spread... oooh an aftermarket turret for a 250/9, oh sorry about the drool..
Between ICM and Tamiya I would not be surprised if Tamiya could end up selling it. Not much simper than the M8/M20 or the VW kits. Remember those pictures are like twice life size on your screen (depending on the size and settings). The turret is very small in real life - I have a Gasoline 223 and it is just tiny.
this will show the size difference. It looks like an after market turret could slide down into the car or even cut out the plate and attach the guns the way they are in the 1/35mm Ttamiya kit
yes I can as they are a unique offering {currently, or are there some resin kits too?} other than an OOP Bandai which can go for much more. I would have much less hope of it selling if it was another Sherman {unless it is an Israeli Sherman } I like making Dioramas so I could see myself using these with other kits that are the main focus
Only the turret is a bad, almost toylike solution. They should have made at least a second part (horizontal plate with the faux weapon attachment on which the upper turret is glued - see Airfix 35 years ago) and don't go for that drum like "inner turret".
Also, a kind of plate towards the engine would have been good and maybe two or three of the bigger interior features.
Then again, I'm happy for any new release in 48.
What we need now is a ICM afv crew *hint, hint* and don't let us wait too long for the Opel.
Thanks Dan for the additional image - very helpful in understanding the size of the parts. Looking at Toadman's site the images he has up for public viewing show that the 222 has sandwich armour on the turret (similar to the way the Germans did their gun shields).
The ICM turret is definitely signnificantly simplified. If you really don't like the kit turret the best solution will be a built up etched replacement made from an inner and an outer core. Since the 222 turret is only about an inch in diameter in 1/48 that may be something Jan at Hauler might take on due to the manageable size. Constructing it will be a challenge IMHO. On the other hand, kitting a resin pedestal mount for the interior is an interesting question. I am wondering if, with the grenade screens in place and painted (or crew figures popping out), you are going to be able to see much at all in the turret. I sure don't see a lot under the screens on my Tigers and Panthers, even after carefully airbrushing them to keep the paint build up down.
As an aside, it looks like Toadman's CD may really give you everything you may want to detail one of these. He has another thread with a special deal for Track48'ers
Yes Konrad! Chris even takes money orders! Sent mine off yesterday. Even if no aftermarket turret comes out, you have a ready made template in the kit! Get out that styrene you scratchbuilders!
This looks like a very workable kit. I agree with you Konrad. When the mesh is on and few "Bods" are placed in the turret, not much is going to be seen. Sure things can be refined. But the basics of little gem are here. Can't wait to get my sticky little fingers on one or two. I can see alot of good things from this kit. Thanks for posting the sprue photos.
JohnO
PS If some of you "Bods" don't like this kit and think it's totally unbuildable, sent it my way. I will give it a very good home!
Remember guys that any plastic injection moulding company will be hoping to sell several thousand, if not many thousands of thier products. Although they clearly take the enthusiasts views into account, they cannot make kits that would be impossible to build by a youngster, or a newcomer to the hobby. They also have to consider how robust the parts are to withstand moulding, removal from the tools and through their packing lines, how much the tooling is going to cost to design and prepare, and a whole bunch of other stuff that enthusiast customers, and to a large extent 'garage' outfits like myself, don't need to worry about. I use rubber moulds, so undercuts and fine details are no problem. If I mess a mould up, or realise the pattern needs improving, I can do it because the moulds only last a few dozen shots anyway. If I had a ton of tooling steel that had had thousands of $ spent on it already, and distributors, the bank and my employees all clamouring for a slice of the return profits, i might be more inclined to start 'robust and simple' and avoid the problems entirely.
You've got a plastic 222. It was ALWAYS going to have potential for detailing and improvements, whether they are your own work or 'add-ons' from the 'garage economy'. So stop moaning, buy a bunch of them, and ICM will no doubt be encouraged to do something else. Belly-ache, and see what happens. I only need to mention Hobby Boss at this point.....
You make some excellent points..... While we all would have preferred a turret that actually looked like the prototype inside, the external shape is really quite good. I had hoped for an interior, so I could do justice to Chris's excellent photos of Jacques Littlefield's '222. I probably won't do that for the '222, because once you've seated the crew (what crew?) and mounted the anti-grenade screens, there isn't much to see.
I have an ancient template set for the SdKfz 222 and SdKfz 232(8rad), made up during the war, that was used to make 1/48 models from card stock. I blew it up to 1/32 and printed it on .015" styrene sheet./ It fit perfectly. I used the SdKfz 232 templates to make the master for a 1/76 '232(8rad) that Airmodel released eons ago as a vac kit - gazillions of pieces, and probably no one ever built the thing, but it was fun to do. So, if I were to go ahead and do the interior completely, I'd scratch the hull and turret shells from .015" plastic card and go from there.
For a closed up model, the ICM should be fine, but try to paint the turret interior in a darker shade of your base color (or do the repainted Dark Gray vehicle routine). I would suspect that Hauler will do a PE turret shell, perhaps new side doors, and a resin gun mount, and perhaps some interior details and brackets, that will lift this kit into the really good range. All together now, "Hauler....Hauler....Hauler....."
Every time a new kit comes out all I hear in this forum is complaints about the inadequacies of the kit offered. Stop bitchin! This scale is a
great medium for model makers so let's promote it instread of complaining about kits that don't have every nut and bolt. This is a hobby that is supposed to be fun and an outlet from the daily grind of our jobs in the real world. I remember when we would kill for a 1/48 Sherman! Now thanks to Tamiya and Hobby Boss we have many choices. Although not perfect they have created an after market industry. Do you think the folks at Hauler and guys like Tim would have produced so many different detail sets if the mainstream companies decided not to venture into the 1/48 scale market? So the model isn't 100% true to life. It still beats scratchbuilding. So instead of complaining why don't you contact the parent company and congratulate them for a job well done. Who knows? they may see a profit in producing some of the more obscure models if they think there would be buyers instead of complainers badmouthing their products.
I think most of the builders here and other sites are more 1%ers the average modeler is probably more an OOB builder {like my son and I}
so accuracy may not be as big an issue. I am just starting with the After market goodies and I am not nearly as concerned with making a perfect mini whatever and more making a nice to look at model.
I do plan on buying my share of the ICM 222s maybe my builds can follow the after market availability....
I just bought 2 of them. This model has been at the top of my wish list for a long time. It's half the price of the resin kit, so logically then I can justify the price to myself. I think it will look great closed up with those PE screens. Tim got my heart with that Hobby Boss comment. I miss them already...sniff...sniff
Maybe Hobby Master or Tamiya will do a JSU-152
I'll make the observation that we are certainly not alone in having kits not meet all our expectations. The 1/35 folks have sometimes gone through the labors of Hercules trying to get kits that were accurate enough to meet the standard. It took Dragon THREE tries before they got the rear hull of the late M4A1 76mm Sherman correct, and of course, there is the PE replacement entire body for the Dragon M2 US halftrack..... With the usually quick reaction of 1/48 aftermarket suppliers, I'd suspect that those who can't live with the kit turret on this new '222 will have a PE and resin rescue package in their hands within a few months. Maybe an interior too; Chris's CD is inspiring..... I'll be getting a few for conversions, and one small diorama I have wanted to do for a long time.
I have one on the way to me. From the looks of the kit, I believe they intend for you to build this vehicle closed up!! Like airplane models with closed canopies....why do all that work, when you can't really see it well....?? They want to sell bunches...and with the screens closed...what you CAN see through them is perfectly adequate!!! Remember that SIMPLICITY is the HALLMARK of our segment. I will be THRILLED to just have the damn thing!! Different markings...different theaters...different stowage....and a few figures....I am MORE THAN READY for this kit!!!
I'm more concerned with the basics...and on that note they seem to have it correct. Yes, there will be options...even a full interior, maybe. But aren't we ALL just glad that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE.....saw fit to give this to us??
Don't get your MNM out, folks!......maybe.....MAY-BE mine will have a turned barrel for it- when available- will grace my model. But stowage...oh yeah, Baby!! And Figures....already looking over my options....and just happy it's out....not a rumour anymore!!!
Just my view of the world......
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
[/IMG]