Just as a follow up thread to the "1/35:ers are nuts" thread.
Why did YOU pick 1/48 rather than 1/35 or 1/72 seeing as there's more choice, huge existing range, they're easy to get hold of, and enough aftermarket parts and decals to drive one either into depression or despair.
For myself, I honestly don't know. My modelling revival started when my girlfriend bought me a Games Workshop magazine with some Lord Of the Rings Orcs in with some paints and a brush. She bought it as a joke as I was quite into LOTR at the time. I proceeded to paint the Orcs, then I got some Uruk-Hai, then Elves, then I did some Warhammer and W40k stuff, and then Rackham's Confrontation figures. By now I had my painting hobby pretty much set. Then I saw Fine Molds' Star Wars ships and thought I'd like to do those, but they didn't turn out well as I didn't have an airbrush, so I got myself one.
Then one day I was in Model Zone in London getting paints as usual, and I for some reason bought the Tamiya Tiger. I don't know why, just liked the box I suppose. I wasn't aware of Bandai or Aurora, or that 1/48 was a small segment in the market. I've still only done eight models which is nothing compared to most, but I haven't gotten bored of it yet and I hope I'll keep going for a long time.
It all began almost 3 years after we married. She told me I needed a hobby, I said she was mad but she wouldn't believe me. "I used to make model tanks (1/35)" I said, "So why don't you?" She replied. Not wanting to break my budget I got hold of some 1/72 tanks and soldiers, but soon found they were too small, fiddly and well the less said about Airfix the better! Then I was in my model shop and noticed something new.... Tamiya 1/48th kits, I haven't seen those before? Wow! A Panther tank for under half the price of a 1/35!
and thats how it all began....
I hope my wife is happy, now she says "Oh no, what have you got this time!"
P.
George Bradford will back me up on this..... Back in the 1960s (I know, I know: a third of you weren't ALIVE back in the 1960s), George and I corresponded regularly, and we both thought 1/48 was the ideal scale for armor models, a grand compromise between size and detailing that gave the best of both worlds. It still is; it's just that the manufacturers gave up on the scale a number of years ago. Now we have it back, thanks to the Wizard. But this time, we're not going anywhere. There are some five dozen plastic injection molded kits of armor in 1/48, and hundreds of aftermarket detail parts, correction sets, and conversions available to us right now. There is no one in this scale today who could build everything available in his/her lifetime, unless you are very, very young, and can turn out a kit a week. And, if you count the resin kits here and to come, you'd better live a long, long time..... We're in the catbird seat.
Much water has gone under the bridge since 1967 when we first promoted 1/48 scale armour in the early issues of AFV NEWS. It always amazes me that the TAMIYA 1/35 Empire that destroyed us back then, has now come to our aid and now champions 1/48 scale armour again.
To me, 1/48 always made sense. Just right size for the collector, and yet adequate for the detailers and scratch conversion types. However, those were the days before photo etch, and now we have a completely new era of EXTREME detail, which 1/35 feeds on.
For those who want a pleasant build with minimal parts, we are IT.
I was modeling aircrafts for a long time in 1/48 scale,so I decided
to try tanks and cars...and there we go...
1/48 scale is ideal compromise to keep aircrafts and vehicles
in one scale.
I never liked 1/72 scale for airplanes and especially not for tanks.
WWII tanks in 1/72 are size of key aglet.
I will never understand modeler who is modeling tanks in 1/35
and airplanes in 1/72......such a disproportion
It was the Tamiya STUG IIIG. Tried it out in a winter scheme and was hooked. Then I found out how much fun it was to turn out Masters and Models in this scale due to their size, small enough to fit many on a shelf but large enough to produce really nice detail. I'm really looking forward to getting into the figures and Diorama accessories also along with many many more complete kits. Modelling is actually FUN again, thanks to 1/48th!
Bob
Bob and Steve
Top Gun Military/IRON DIVISON Resins
www.topgunmilitary.com
Cost, Time to Build, Ease of Build, Bruce Culver. I build my first Tamiya Kit - T34 with German infantry as a diorama in less the three weeks. I enjoyed in throughly. I had just spent 3 months building the Dragon Sdkfz 251/17 for a group project and it was less much fun then I had in years. I am now building the AFV Club Stryker with Pro Art 'Bird Cage Armour' for another group project. 360 Plastic parts, 600 photo etch parts, 90 resin parts plus 30 resin ammo cans, 5 gallon jerry cans and MRE boxes. Then comes the crew! I may not survive the experiance.
Bruce, If this project does kills me, please put on my head stone the following message: "Strykers Are A Bitch!" In the mean time I envy all you bastards!
Sharp roped you into building THAT?! My sincere condolences; Brian Jones said at the shop a couple of weeks ago that virtually no one has been able to get all the PE for the 1/35 Stryker together straight, and there are very few built so far. Press on, lad - you'll show 'em.....
Going back to the old Aurora tank kits, I built most of them as a kid. I built a lot of the motorized 1/48 scale modern armor kits as well. When I discovered Bandai kits, I grabbed one up as quick as I saw it.
When Tamiiya announced a new line, I quickly bought the Tiger, M4 Sherman followed by the Kubelwagen.
I listed my reasons for leaving 1/35 and going to 1/72, but I never really left 1/48 scale.
Well like Bruce I indeed remember the 60's, the land of Aurora, and Bandai kits. I was always interested in 1/48th scale aircraft, I believe they present themselves bettor in scale than 1/72. Then there is the vision problem, after going to glasses with old age, it gets harder to see them little 1/72nd scale critters. Then one night at my IPMS meeting I won the Hobby Boss M-4 Sherman, got home and greedily divested the contents and thought this is a quantum leap over the old kits I was used to. That started the ball rolling, and I am now up to my armpits with Tamiya armor kits to build. They are fun, easy builds to do, but I find many small faults with the simplicity that Tamiya uses in their kits. Then thanks to Track 48 I discovered Gaso-Line, and now I am up to my armpits with all kinds of conversions, correction sets, figures, photo etch, and best of all, turned metal gun barrels, what a hobby now!!.
Cheers, and "happy modeling", Alan Vandam
My mate suggested i get into in 1/48th so at Modelkraft i buy some American GIs by Tamiya. The detail is very good, I have the Tamiya Jagdpanther and Flak in the stash!!!
I am sure that I am like many other modelers whose interests expand beyond making miniature plastic replicas and placing them in a collection. For me, it is a compatability issue. I have toy trains, model airplanes, figures and soldiers, and diecast cars, motorcycles, trucks and military vehicles all in 1/48, 1/50 and 1/43 scale on my display shelves. Only upon extreme close scrutiny will visitors recognize the different scales. Generally, they all complement each other in size. Since there are no trains that gauge out to 1/35, this scale is out. While I recognize that the majority of trains sold are HO (1/87) and complement the many 1/72 kits of planes, figures and AFV models, most diecast cars and trucks are 1/64 scale. Also, kits in this scale present problems with fat fingers and failing eyesite, relegating it to be undesirable. Smaller scales (1/144, 1/350, 1/700) are just too tiny, and the larger scales (1/24, 1/18, 1/16) are just too big.
Jim
I was made redundant from the machine shop in 1990 and got a job 3 weeks later with Hart Models, since then my life has revolved around 1:48, Boats Aircraft Tanks Trucks etc. the last three years have been bad for my wallet but a blast!
A long time ago, in a shopping centre demolished last year, I managed a branch of Beatties, and we had a pile of Bandai kits to get rid of. I have of course regreted ever since not snapping up the whole lot, but I only bough a couple. I was into NATO jets at the time... But I always thought they looked very neat kits, designed with us lot in mind, rather than for kids. How things have changed!
Tim
PS I always thought the ESCI 1:72 AFVs and trucks were good kits, for exactly the same reason. I didn't buy any of them, either. Story of my life!
A Beattie? Beatties, was a chain of modelshops now no longer with us.
This modelshop is no more! It has ceased to be! Its's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it
rests in peace! ... It's off the twig! Its's kicked the
bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-MODELSHOP!!
I joined the Bristol Branch in 1977, left after 4 years with the exalted rank of Assistant Manager, to go and seek my fortune as a student photographer. 2 Years later, I was back in Bristol starting a new career as an architechtural modelmaker. In 1984 I started PP Models as a hobby sideline, that gradually took over my life until I wound it up in 1996, went back to commercial modelmaking, then did a year at Airbus as a technical author, then started 11 years ago with my present employer. Started Fighting 48th as a hobby sideline 2 years ago. Who says history doesn't repeat itself!
Oh , I met my future wife-to-be while at Beatties! She joined as I left, then I went back to the shop to help out during the college holidays, and we fell in love over the Hornby train sets. Everyone say 'Aaaahhh.....'
I like to build whichever scale as long as the model has decent amount of accuracy in terms of basic shapes and placement of details and the general fit is good. When Tamiya started the 1/48 armor line I was with many who thought "Aw man! Tamiya's wimping out!", however, now I'm loving it.
These days it's amazing how incredibly detailed kits in both 1/35 and 1/72 scale are, however they also have become harder build. So many insanely small parts to work with! The thing I like about 1/48 scale is that they have more "sense of presence" and don't have as many fiddly parts as 1/72 and they don't take up as much space as 1/35. I like Tamiya's approach where they have the general shapes right and make some reasonable comprises with the smaller details, their 1/48 kits can make fun OOB projects and yet end up with satisfying replicas. There's not much room in where I live, so the introduction of 1/48 scale is a blessing.
David Morris (Login Dave_Morris) Registered Users 62.30.139.151
Re: So why DID you decide to do 1/48?
April 9 2008, 5:05 PM
I got back into modelling for the second time about 7 years ago. I started out building in 1/72nd scale. But a year or so ago i started to find this scale too fiddly and my eyes ain`t what they where. so i was considering moving up in scale. I had seen the Tamiya 1/48th scale kits at club meetings and was very tempted to have a go at one.
I used to model in 1/35th in a previous modelling existance. But my home is small and i knew i did not have the room to store that scale in any quantity.
At a model show i picked up a Skybow Late Tiger and a set of Tracks from Nigel at parabellum, which is a fantastic kit for a first timer to try.
While i was building the Tiger, i started googling around the internet for quarter scale resources, and found this DG. I saw that some of the deities from the last time i modelled in the 80`s(Bruce and George) posted on this DG and i was impressed by the laid back attitude of everyone on this group, no big giant heads in sight.
After i had finished the Tiger i was hooked on Quarter scale. I can`t really explain why but the scale of 1/48th just seems so right for me. I don`t care that i`m the only Quarter scale armour modeller at my club. I still get those strange looks from Dragon Zombies but i love being a maverick.
I am now disposing of my 1/72nd stash as my quarter scale stash now needs more room!
Hmmm I feel like a fish outa water here! I build in 1/72, 1/48 and 1/35. To me 1/72 is getting too small for my old eyes ( I was building kits in the 60's and 70's too!) While I am still going strong with 48 and 35. I re-entered the hobby after a 10 year break in 2003, and naturally gravitated back to 35 as Tamiya was king when I stopped building in the 90's. It was my friend Mike Rinaldi that talked me into trying out 48 again, and I was hooked. For me they are much faster builds and require less over the top detailing to get a nice finish. Will I give up 35? Nah, I still enjoy the serious AMS builds, but I wont give up on 48 either!
I’ve been building 1/35th scale armor since the good old Monogram/Shep Paine and classic Tamiya days of the early 70’s, when kits were cheap and super detailing meant drilling out gun barrels, adding wire grab handles, stretched sprue antennas, and stowage made from tissue paper and white glue. I built one or two Bandai kits back in the day but the 1/35 market simply eclipsed 1/48, so I stayed with the bigger scale.
In the last 8 or 9 years, the extreme detailing that is now the hallmark of 1/35th scale modeling had become an expensive millstone around my neck, slowing my already slow rate of building to a standstill and sucking away all my fun-money in the process. I began to equate it to the same problem I saw with 1/32nd scale aircraft: the larger the kit, the more excruciatingly detail must be addressed. Plus, they eat up too much money, time, and space. I occasionally build 1/48th planes because it's the perfect compromise between size, cost and detail. For me, 1/72 is just too small and kits typically are very simple and toy-like. I see 1/48 armor the same way I view 1/48 aircraft: they cost less, build quicker, take up less space in my display case and I can get away with more implied detail, rather than the uber-detail of 1/35th scale.
The real testimony is how much more I'm enjoying the hobby again now that I've switched to 1/48. I still have a dozen 1/35 kits in my stash but the 1/48th scale kits now outnumber them!
Not to put yet again a negative spin on things, but I always thought 1/35 scale was a disaster for our hobby. I mean, why was it not at least made compatible with 1/32 scale?
From what I understand, the popularisation of 1/35 was the brainchild of a cooperation between Francois Verlinden and Tamiya, who used their combined synergy of publications, resin and models to make 1/35 the standard armor scale in the late 70's.
At the time our hobby was in such an upswing that nobody thought this unnecessary splintering would be of much consequence. I think however that 1/48 scale has such an intrinsinc superiority to any other scale, that we are now paying a heavy price for this dogmatic splintering into specialised scales. At my local IPMS club the 1/35 crowd has split away from us, being now a separate club. I hope they are having fun building their 40 parts tank cuppolas, meanwhile our attendance has gradually and noticeably dwindled.
I'm not saying 1/48th scale could have made our hobby today what it was 20-25 years ago, but I am convinced a more universal scale would have kept the excitement level much higher, while being much more accessible to newbies than 500 parts kits...
Apparently contradicting what I am saying, our scale has caused little excitement outside of the asian market, and I would at least put part of the blame on those metal hulls... But who knows? People have been used to thirty years of 1/35 scale conformism, and maybe they don't want to rebuild all their kits now...
Dave, you have hit upon the Holy Grail of scale definition: the larger the scale, the smaller the details that have to be included for the model to look "complete." In other words, as you get bigger in scale, you have to include smaller detail levels because they can be seen in larger scales, but not as much in smaller sizes. An example: you have an open-top AFV of some sort. In 1/76-1/72, you can indicate a hydraulic pipe or electrical conduit with just a piece of brass wire or perhaps a small diameter styrene rod. In 1/48, you have to add the metal brackets that hold the pipe or conduit in place. In 1/35-1/32, you have to add the screws that hold the clamps in place. In 1/25-1/24, you have to add the rubber liner that prevents chafing of the line, and in 1/16, you have to model the correct screw head design (slot, Phillips, Torq-set, etc.). The same thing goes for pipe unions, junction fittings, and every other class of detail. You must add the detail that will be seen at normal viewing distances, and these tend to be actually closer in the larger scales, because the extra smaller detailing is more attractive. You get into 1/24-1/16, your gauges in the instrument panel have to be actually hollow with separate indicator needles and the maker's marks visible on the dial face. Hoo boy! 1/48 for me!
The reason there was 1/35th scale....just like 1/50th scale...is simple...decimal versus metric. That's all it was. There was no commonality in scales....We had done 1/72, 1/48, 132, and 1/24th. The Japanese, in conversion to a constant scale, used metric and came up with 1/100, 1/50 and when Mr. Tamiya and others started out- they chose 1/35th( easily do-able in metric). In our market successes, they relented and dropped 1/100th and embraced 1/144th. 1/72 and 1/76 were WELL established in many arenas.......1/48th won out over 1/50th in sheer numbers of releases from many areas.....and, with only a handful of 1/32 kits from Monogram and Airfix, Tamiya jumped on 1/35th. They were joined by smaller Manufacturers...notably Italeri.....and the marketplace won out again. The initial release schedule was two SURE hits from Tamiya...then one MAYBE....This allowed them to look at volume sales to boost the weaklings coming out. Yet, what do people remember....and what are their re-releases most popular?? The Gaz, the LRDG Chevy, the M14/40-Semovente, the Pink Panther, the Brit Ambulance, etc. They turned out to be the "difference" in enticing people to "try" 1/35th...and then "stay with it". That formula still works today.....and we revel in it!! The older kits have been replaced by more modern offerings in some cases....but many companies are reluctant to "strike out" in new directions.....and stay with the winners!!
A perfect example will be.....the new Sci-Fi series coming in the Fall from Hasegawa!! These are essentially the same series as the old Nitto SF3D series...but not in 1/20th scale (which cost Nitto dearly-broke their backs financially), but in 1/35th!! Can you say "crossover??" Think of all the dioramas...set in the future....with rusting King Tigers in the backgrounds. Very smart move by Hasegawa,I think...... And they are releasing several kits in a short time- to encourage getting into this arena..
Sorry for the long post, but this I do know about.....HTH, Dave
The very first kit I ever "built" was the 1/48th Aurora Swedish "S" tank, bought by chance by someone else for my 8th birthday in 1968. I say "built" because dear old Dad actually did 95% of the work, saying "you'll mess it up if I don't help you..........".
Anyway. Fast forward to 1975, and I come to a new school in New Zealand, having grown up in North America. Come the first Wednesday at my new school, I discover that final period of the day is "Clubs". "What kind of clubs", I ask, and am handed a list. A quick check, and low and behold, there is a model club! And upon entering the club room, I discover the President of the club discussing his latest creations: Bandai 48th armor kits. And they are nothing short of SUPERB, as he is a very competent builder, and uses something called an "airbrush" to produce fantastic finishes on his models. I am hooked! But Bandi goes out of the 48th business, so it is back to 35th armor.
Come to a few years ago, and I am getting burnt out on all the "super kits" being produced by Tamiya, but especially DML, upwards of 700+ parts. So when Mr T announces he is going into 48th armor, I say, "why not try one". The Tiger I finish in a weekend, WOW, this is a lot of FUN (building 700+ piece kits aren't fun). And then I get hold of the Skybow Tigers, WOW, fun AND wonderfully detailed! Hooked again!
As an addendum to Tamiya's 1/35, I read somewhere that the scale was accidently stumbled upon because Tamiya was making remote-contolled vehicles. 1/35 (or very close to it) seemed to be the ideal vehicle size for enough space for the batteries and motor. These early Tamiya kits proved to be popular; they dropped the remote-control stuff, made the scale more precise, and eventually corrected most of the proportion and detail issues common to those early kits.
This is the first time I hear what seems to be a plausible explanation for the 1/35 th scale mystery.
You have to remember that even at the time 1/32 scale was a very well established aircraft scale, with a lot more kits than 1/24. For some strange reason, probably related to the toy-like working features tolerated better by the large size, those kits were usually much inferior to the Monogram 1/48 series. Still, it was obvious to anyone even at the time that 1/32 scale had a long future ahead of it, as it was far too established to go away.
It only very recently hit its stride with many good releases, but such a long barren hiatus could not and was not anticipated back then.
So considering the potential energising effect of diorama compatibility, which would have in my opinion tremendously boosted sales in BOTH aircraft and armor, if only by the occasional display in a hobby shop window(as not many people make dioramas I'm told).
For me at least, THE major reason for my leaving the hobby in the mid 1980s was the impossibility of making scale consistent subjects in both aircraft and vehicles (I never saw any Bandais back then). Also, the impoverishment in diorama potential was just too much for me to take. I remember how I looked wistfully at the B-24's Cletrac and the B-17's bomb trolley, tantalizing hints at what might have been.
So the initial battery-sized RC kits by Tamiya HAD to be followed up by compatible scale model, so none of the production would be wasted.
Thank you Leo, so now I at least I know why my enjoyment of this hobby has been ruined for two decades...I was so desperate back then, I would have turned to 1/32 scale in the blink of an eye, if the opportunity even had been there...
It seems to me the dominance of 1/35th scale coincides pretty well, allowing for a five to ten year delay, with the start of the gradual decline of our hobby. Though of course many other factors have been at play, it seems, from my point of view at least, that this short-sighted, expedient scale has been the single biggest disaster in our hobby.
I don't know how many quater scalers share this sentiment, but sometimes I can't even LOOK at these things...
Gaston.
For once I actually agree with Marty. There's so much talk about how the hobby is in decline and we need to get the kids reengaged in it. So what do people do? Chuck them a 600 parts kit and then moan when they have the wrong air vent or something. 1/48 is about buildability. I could never do a 1/35 monstrosity, I'd run out of patience just doing the suspension. Doing the road wheels is already my least favorite part of a build, so if I had to do every single spring and axle I'd give up before I got to page 2 of the instructions.
Dave Reed (Login dave37167) Registered Users 68.52.83.113
Partially true......
April 16 2008, 7:30 AM
The scale was determined by metric measurement conversion. Tamiya had made battery operated Tanks without remote control before their venture into the contoller operated, rubber band tracked versions. What DID happen was their manipulation of the basic dimensions to accommodate the batteries and motor/gearbox assemblies. If you ever read old reviews as the kits came out, the reviewers often mentioned how the hull was 1/4" too wide....or 1/2 inch too tall.....All to make room for the mechanicals. Their market has always had a love of the "motion" of the models....spinning props, tanks that tank, cars that car, etc.....
As a last note, in talking with a friend who was at AMPS....about Mr.T picking ALL the subject matter....he said that Tamiya will NEVER do a 1/48th B-29 (as rumored often), because Mr.T lived through the bombings during the War....and will NEVER even THINK about that as a subject. A perfectly understandable reaction, by a man who controls the destiny of HIS company. I'm just glad he decided to come back into 1/48th!! My "rumor" was 5 new 1/35th models...and 4 in 1/48th will be announced at the Hobby Show in May. I can only hope that's true!!
We're in the catbird seat.
