Building M-4 Composite "Trooper" and other worries
July 6 2008 at 2:26 PM
(Login arthurkrull) from IP address 99.141.200.154
All,
One of the (numerous) Shermans I want to build in 1/48th is the Composite hulled M-4 named Trooper. There is a rather good picture of her in the old 'Sherman In Action' book. I know I need the composite upper hull, obviously. The ID lower hull with the sharp trans housing is probably also needed to avoid the nasty Tamiya metal hull. I think the Tamiya turret is accurate for "Trooper", right? I believe Track 48 carries the decals.
Anything I'm missing?
Also, are there decals (or at least a decent photo or artwork) of an early M4A1 76mm? I want to build one of the early ones used in France shortly after the Allied landings. I have a picture of the sort of vehicle, I want to build, I'm just not sure of the markings.
Arthur, I can't find a copy of "Sherman in Action" around here, so I don't have the photo you reference. Depending on the angle of the shot, it should be easy to tell which turret the tank has, but it really needs to be a left side 3/4 shot to show the pistol port and the cheek armor so you can model the actual variant of the turret (pistol port or no port, welded or cast cheek armor). Note you can be fooled: some turrets were modified by having the pistol port welded closed and of course, unless you have a close-up of the port, it will appear the turret has a port. But even in 1/48, you'd see the weld seams around the port, so it does show on the model.
Thanks for the reply. FWIW, the same picture is on page 55 of the Concord book Tank Battle of the Pacific War by Steve Zaloga. It only shows the right side, but the bustle is clearly a low one. There are other pictures of M4 Composites in the same unit, the 775th Tank Battalion, but they appear to be high bustle turrets. They seem to all have the loader's hatch.
I'm not sure what you mean by cheek armor. Since you said, left side, I assume you are not talking about the applique on the right side of the turret. The picture is unclear, but the applique appears to be absent.
So, with a low bustle and no applique, is it likely that a more or less standard M-4 Composite would have a loader's hatch?
Very funny, Bruce, not having a copy of your own book to check. Arthur is in luck though, as Trooper is one of those rare composite hull M$s with the straight arm return rollers. There is track applique armour on the turret but it looks like it might be a low-bustle type with cast-in cheek bulge.
Entropy, Glenn - the tendency for order to devolve into chaos..... Arthur, I was refering to the right side applique armor, but in some front left side shots you can see both the applique armor on the right front of the turret and the pistol port, so you can check both these details. At the right angle, you can sometimes even see the oval loader's hatch if that's been added. It is usually very hard to pick out the cast-in cheek armor unless the light is just right, since the contours are very close to the original turret. Early M4 composites would probably have the 1943 mid-production 75mm turrets, and these came with pistol ports, welded pistol ports, and no pistol ports. And, some of these turrets had the added welded applique armor and others had the cast-in cheek armor. That's really why you should have a photo showing the turret details to be sure, if you are modeling a particular Sherman.
I found a picture in the Condord book of another M-4 Composite from the same unit as "Trooper". It shows the left side of the turret, and there is no pistol port. Assuming the vehicles are fairly standard within a unit, I could assume that Trooper also had not pistol port. Would this imply no loader's hatch?
Arthur, if the turret had no pistol port, it is very likely it had the cast-in cheek armor rather than the welded-on applique. Not, of course, that this can ever be a definitive statement with Shermans...
Do any of the ID low bustle turrets have the cheek armor? If not, do any others? How noticable is the armor in 1/48th? How hard is it to add this armor to a Tamiya turret?
I think that's the last of the questions on this subject.
Arthur, I would guess that #48002 (solid cast) 1943 turret without the pistol port, #XT4002 (same turret, but hollow) and #XT4003 late 1943 turret with pistol port wouild all have the cast cheek armor. I just ordered all these turrets but haven't received the order yet.
Arthur, the cast cheek armor addition would be only 1/32" thick and would be blended into the turret armor contours. Note that it overhung the turret ring, so there was a cutaway shelf below the cast cheek area, the original turret contour. The best way to do this would be to mix some Miliput type epoxy putty, roll it into a sheet 1/32" thick, apply it to the turret right front wall, and blend the added area into the original turret contours. Or, you could add the basic armor shape from .030" sheet plastic and blend in with epoxy putty. Then add the texture with plastic filler. HTH, BC
Arthur, I was refering to the right side applique armor, but in some front left side shots you can see both the applique armor on the right front of the turret and the pistol port, so you can check both these details. At the right angle, you can sometimes even see the oval loader's hatch if that's been added. It is usually very hard to pick out the cast-in cheek armor unless the light is just right, since the contours are very close to the original turret. Early M4 composites would probably have the 1943 mid-production 75mm turrets, and these came with pistol ports, welded pistol ports, and no pistol ports. And, some of these turrets had the added welded applique armor and others had the cast-in cheek armor. That's really why you should have a photo showing the turret details to be sure, if you are modeling a particular Sherman.