(Login amodeler) Registered Users from IP address 69.208.70.4
Well I got to thinking last night of the pending Panther A's and D', and quickly came up with some severe "sticker shock" on the costs. I base that upon these figures, just sort of rounded off to the highest figure. First off the Tamiya donor kit for the running gear at $30.00, the new resin conversion from Bob at $30.00, and then the WW II Productions early Panther track at $30.00, and finally we can throw in $10.00 for postage fees. So tally that up and as Bruce would say "quickly down some Elderbery wine". We will be paying close to $100.00 for one Panther "A" or "D"!!!. Cheers, Alan Vandam
Yup... 1/48 modeling is fast becoming a Rich Man's Sport.
About the only way around those $100.00 builds, that have been mentioned many times before, is scratch-building, which appears to be a dying art these days. We simply throw money at it, and then call it OUR workmanship. Sad!
The primary benefit of after market enhancements and conversion parts is that they speed the building process. Even if one has the skills to to scratchbuild, it takes longer to do so.
For example, if I buy a resin hull to correct a Hobby Boss Sherman, I don't have to spend hours and hours with research materials and a razor saw and putty and sheet stryene. Therefore, what I've purchased is not just an improved hull, but also TIME. Though I have too little of either money or time, the reality is that at this stage of my life, time is the scarcer of the two commodities. If I do the math, the time that is saved is usually worth the money.
Approaching 68, and wanting to build a fair number of similar models, I really don't want to have to scratchbuild every model, and the 50-60 Shermans would have been prohibitively time-consuming without Bob's and Steve's conversions. Scratchbuilding something once can be challenging and fun; scratchbuilding the same thing over and over is just tedious and it takes away time from the assembly and finishing to complete the model. In my case, I've collected a lot of the old Bandai kits and have been able to spare some for Bob to use to develop new resin kits that will benefit you (and the prices wil be about what the Bandai stuff will cost you on eBay, uncorrected). If Bob can save me the time so I can build more kits before I go to that great Junkyard in the Sky, that's the way I like it.
A resin Kit or conversion is not cheap to produce. It's a cross that all of us AM folks have to bear. Resin and RTV are going up in price along with all other materials such as Base Kits (when used), packing, artwork and so on. I tried my hardest to keep prices at a minimum before and that was the staw that broke the camel's back. Thus the shutdown of the old line. Now anymore, I try to keep prices down but still have to keep the ball rolling and pay the Bills. Heck, have you seen the prices on some 72nd Scale aftermarket products? WOW!
Bob and Steve
Top Gun Military/IRON DIVISON Resins
http:www.topgunmilitary.com
Also, general expectations of product quality, and particularly accuracy, have gone through the roof over the last few years. Once upon a time, provided it was a Sherman, just the paint scheme would be enough to determine if it was a US Marines M4A2, or an Isreali M4A4T. Nowadays, if the style of welding on the drivers cover add-on armour has not CLEARLY been done by a left-handed welder, because EVERYBODY knows that the batch made between July 15th and August 3rd 1944 were done by Wally Bushman III, who as we ALL know, was left-handed, then we clearly know jack about Shermans.....
We all are in desperate danger of knowing, or being expected to know, more and more about, frankly, less and less, until we all know everything about nothing. And those of us mad enough to try and put products into such an expectant market work in fear and trepidation of our products getting a right chewing over by an 'expert' or three, damning that product in particular, and probably everything else we do in perpetuity.
Anyway, my point is, the work involved in mastering and manufacturing a new product is frequently dwarfed by the effort involved in researching the project. And not being able to track down piffling items of information is often enough to stall a project completely.
That's my excuse anyway.
Tim
www.fighting48th.com
This message has been edited by wunwinglow from IP address 82.45.21.118 on Oct 5, 2008 6:50 PM
about Wally Bushman.....!!! I was going to reveal that secret in my next book.... You are right, of course, and I confess that I have reached that modeling nirvana: I know everything about nothing...... Your other point (about research) is why I try to chime in occasionally to help you and Bob with tidbits I find, because I know sometimes you need serendipity to find that last piece of the puzzle. I sent Bob some excellent stuff from PanzerTracts on the Panthers so they will be right. It will also deflect most future criticism, since most of the "experten" use PT as a guide (or bible) for WW2 German armor configuration and details. It really is all self-serving; when you aftermarket folks bring out kits and conversions I want, it helps me as well as other 1/48 modelers. So, if I can help get projects off the ground or supply research to help make them happen, why not? Press on, Tim, lad (TM).
pete sheridan (Login redcoat1941) Registered Users 67.133.163.108
Tim and Bruce...
October 7 2008, 6:39 PM
...I'm shocked that neither of you seem to recall that particular batch of Shermans failed to see action in the Second World War as all were passed on to the Duchy of Grand Fenwick and reportedly suffered heavy damage during an abortive raid on the casinos at Monte Carlo. Led by those great American soldiers, Kelly, Oddball and Crapgame.
Good point Bob. You aren't the General Motors assembly line. Most of us will only buy one panther for our collections, and in many cases we aren't all nut & bolt counters (I was going to say rivet counters but that is my shipbuilding background taking over)! I think your prices are reasonable and most of us can swing the dough for a Tamiya model. There are also bargains on EvilBay! Keep up the good work and i hope there are panthers left over for me 'cause I sure want one!
The Cost be damned!!! I doubly, and triply (is there such a word?) agree with what has been said here today...and quite frankly wonder why the cost of the conversions provided by the gentlemen here from IRON DIVISION and FIGHTING 48TH! aren't at least TWICE what is being asked for by them! Total costs involved in project can be reduced by careful "Shopping around" to different local and internet suppliers of plastic kits, with regard to reducing the cost of the donor Panther, etc. I personally can afford the increases in prices as my children are all grown and gone, etc. Having been a modeller for over forty years and seeing the outrageous increases
in the price of kits over the years I can understand everyone's concern here. Let's be realistic; Nothing is cheap, in the hobby or out of it. I feel for the "Pinch" that many modeller's feel regarding the cost of living and it's bite out of all of our collective ass'.
I'm greatful for the few pioneers in our hobby, and in particular the scale of 1/48th who have placed themselves on the line financially so that we can have a selection of kits that may not actually show up for sale in our lifetime!! (mine at least!) By the time they do, as mainstream
plastic...just what do you think they will cost? I personally believe we are seeing GENUINE, fairly priced, BARGAINS. Chris Schwach
Well guys don't get me wrong, as I am eagerally awaiting for Bob's Panthers, and hopefully he received my request for two of each. I am also aware of the cost's associated with the production of resin products, and do not mind paying for quality items, such as what Bob, Tim, and Steve put out. The other cost associated with the conversion ie; the kit, and tracks can be purchased at a later date, just get thos hulls right away do to the low production rate. I actually hope that if they sell well, that Bob would make a second production run. Cheers, Alan Vandam
Bill Wiseman's WW2 Productions tracks, I'm not getting them for my Panther ausf As. I'll be drilling billions of holes in the guide horns to dress up the Tamiya kit tracks, which to me are absolutely fine if the lightening holes are opened up. I'll use four sets of Bill's forthcoming early Panther ausf D tracks for the ausf Ds I'm doing. They are great tracks though, and I can recommend them very highly.
Bill just emailed me about the all-new early Panther Tracks. They'll be ready shortly. He's also made a special offer for the Early Panther Tracks; Anyone that purchases the Iron Division Panther A or D gets the corresponding Tracks set for $25.00 instead of $27.00! Pretty good deal, eh?
Bob and Steve
Top Gun Military/IRON DIVISON Resins
http:www.topgunmilitary.com
Hi Bob , Bill has posted a couple of the Panther D tracks to me with a order yesterday.
Once I have them some time next week I will take a few pix and post them here
Bob, how does Bill know who purchased your A or D hull? I ordered two of each and would like to pick up some of his early Panther track, so how do I go about this? Do you have to verify with him or are you selling some of his track?
Without any possible violations of the privacy act. After seeing the quality of his tracks sets, I asked him for permission to post an ad for them on my website to which he happily agreed. With my upcoming German Armor projects in the pipeline, they sure will come in handy, too! Ooops, letting out too much information again. Did I say German Armor project or projects?
Bob and Steve
Top Gun Military/IRON DIVISON Resins
http:www.topgunmilitary.com
You are right, of course, and I confess that I have reached that modeling nirvana: I know everything about nothing......
Can't hide anything from youse guys.....