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Need help with Panzer yellow

June 15 2009 at 6:36 PM
  (no login)
from IP address 174.18.165.128

Hi everybody,

Even though it isn't historically too accurate, I'd like to know what color I might want to use to achieve the bright, orangy-yellow shade of dunkelgelb seen on many of the German tanks on this site, as well as on the photos of on Tamiya box sides.

Whatever brand of dark yellow I use (model air, Tamiya, Polly Scale) it always ends up looking the color of baby-crap. A dark yellowish green. I tried to lighten it for scale effect, and then it just turned into lighter baby crap.

What am I doing wrong?

 
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AuthorReply

(Login pjpanzer)
99.252.9.163

Gotta hate the "Shades of Baby Crap"..

June 15 2009, 7:21 PM 

Hi Ralph;

In order to avoid unsightly "Baby Crap" models finishes, Start with tamiya XF60 Dark Yellow. It's a decent colour, but I typically add lots of other shades to it, like Tamiya Flat White, and you can get good results with Tamiya Deck Tan, and sometimes I will add equal parts of Tamiya Flat White and Flat Yellow.

Adding pure flat yellow will help get the weird greenish tint out of the Tamiya Dark Yellow. There are lots of ways to skin this cat, but I have had good results with these colour mixes, and I do lighten quite a bit for scale effect. See my Stug IIIG in the gallery here, it was base coated in Dark Yellow, with equal parts flat white & flat yellow added.

Hope this could help at all, and Cheers, Pat

 
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(Login stevebrauning)
190.166.159.224

Panzer Yellow - I like Model Master

June 15 2009, 8:16 PM 

I use enamels, and as far as I can tell, the color is perfect right out of the bottle. Of course, there can be variations, but I would go with the more yellowish that Model Master has instead of the more greenish tinge that other brands have.
Steve

 
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(no login)
69.228.209.138

Re: Panzer Yellow - I like Model Master

June 15 2009, 9:19 PM 

with the Vallejo Model Air - I mixed the Panzer Yellow with Buff and Sandy Brown for my Panther in "what's new." The Vallejo is baby poo without mixing it - that's for sure. HTH

 
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(no login)
66.245.86.87

Dunkelgelb.....

June 15 2009, 10:21 PM 

There were two distinct shades of this color. One, called Dunkelgelb nach Muster (Dark Yellow to the standard) was closer to the yellower, more mustard color. It was apparently used as an agricultural color for painting farm equipment, like John Deere green. It was not satisfactory, and the official shade, RAL 7028, was adopted.

Here's where it gets tricky, and Tom Jentz would not agree with me: while the STANDARD for Dark Yellow did not change during the war, the actual colors were not all the same. First, paints were produced by many manufacturers in different parts of Germany. Plants producing military vehicles in northern Germany used paints from different paint makers than plants in Bavaria, or East Prussia, or elsewhere. Second, as the war progressed, more and more raw materials for paint became unavailable and had to be replaced. This often altered the shade of the color, and the same thing happened in the US when Cadmium Green was disallowed for paint because cadmium was needed for treating metal alloys for war production. Finally, difficulties in obtaining even approved paint ingredients required substitutions.

Also, supplies of older colors or obsolete shades were often used to make other related colors. Left over tropical colors from the failed African campaign were used to make Dark Yellow, and there were formulas to show how to mix the newer colors using the old paints and mixing tints supplied by the paint makers. Some of the desert shades were not that far off from RAL 7028 Dark Yellow, and may have been used in a pinch without remixing. With secondary colors being applied over the base color, it would be almost impossible to tell. I have several pieces of German field gear I bought when I was re-enacting, and no two match each other, and none of them match the standard chips in my copy of Tomas Chory's excellent book on German camouflage. You can't go too far afield without getting into trouble, but there were likely as many variations of Dark Yellow as there were for Olive Drab.

That said, the standard shade of Dark Yellow was warmer and tanner than the yellow-mustard color first used in small amounts. It is, however, a very complex shade that changes color in different lights, which for a camouflage color is a good trait. For us the modelers, it's a pain in the buttinski.....sad.gif A number of modelers who use acrylics use the Tamiya Dark Yellow cut with Desert Tan or Buff to lighten it. It's better to vary the color slightly from model to model, as you should for Olive Drab as well.

 
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(Login Malcolm_48)
Registered Users
4.152.204.236

MM Dunkelgelb

June 15 2009, 10:30 PM 

Hi guys -

I like Model Master enamels, I guess I'm just a throwback to the "if the paint and solvents don't have a chemical funk to them, you're not really modeling" era. That said, I still feel that the MM Dunkelgelb still has a touch too much green, that "baby peanut butter" look. I found the solution that makes me happy is to buy lots of MM's RAF Middle Stone, and mix a batch for each project individually with the Dunkelgelb, so each one is a bit different. My starting point is a 2:1 ratio of Middle Stone and Dunkelgelb, then I lean one way or the other depending on the camo colours used and the location of the vehicle, and its time in service. It works for me.

Cheers -

Malcolm

 
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(Login wunwinglow)
Registered Users
82.45.21.118

colours

June 16 2009, 3:23 AM 

You can tell which forum members have been parents, can't you?.....

Tim



www.fighting48th.com

 
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P. Leddy
(no login)
24.13.78.181

Parents

June 16 2009, 1:01 PM 

Once a parent, always apparent!

 
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(no login)
66.245.86.87

Malcolm, a great idea.....

June 16 2009, 7:51 PM 

I'll have to try this with my "lifetime" supply of Floquil Military Colors. Minor variations in colors over a series of models can keep them fresh and make the collection look so much more realistic.

 
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