Here is a URL for a stunning series of overall and detail photos of a late-1943 production Baldwin-built M4 Sherman, showing the peculiar details for these M4s. It is possible that some of the late details were added after the war, such as the BMG brackets on the turret rear and the cast cupola, but the hull is straight wartime production. Note that the Baldwin hull had a vertical rear plate, and for whatever reason, Baldwin built direct vision hulls until they went to the 47 degree large hatch hull for the 105mmH version in 1944. The turret is a mid-late model without the pistol port; later turrets had the pistol port installed due to crew complaints. There is no loader's hatch, but there is the thickened turret front on the right side. This tank has been sealed, and the periscopes have been removed, but most of it is legit. The URL is:http://www.eeronsivut.net/vaunut/sherman.html Enjoy.....
there are actually three Baldwin M4 Shermans here, all the same. Most likely these were MAP tanks supplied to our allies in the 1940s and 50s. This makes it more likely that the BMG brackets and cast cupolas were post-war add-ons. But, the unique feature of the Baldwins was the unusual hull, and these shots show that very well. Now to find some combat shots that can be identified as Baldwin M4s.....
these are keepers, and the 752nd is one of the units I am very interested in because they served in Italy. It's a perfect fit, and now I can slip in a Baldwin or two for the Sherman project.
There's a series of photos out there of German combat engineers rigging knocked out M4/M4A1's for demo so they couldn't be recovered by the Allies. I believe this is one of them.
George,
I think it might be a Pressed Steel Car(PSC) produced M4. Using the cheezy photo program I have at work, I can make out what appear to be rivets between the rear road wheel on the front bogie truck and the front road wheel on the center bogie truck.
Note the fabricated bow MG housing, not cast, and the angle of the rear plate evidenced by the end of the side plate. Turn about is fair play; this is what we did to all those abandoned Tigers in Tunisia.....
If you want specifically to do exactly the version....
July 7 2009, 1:41 PM
with the mine rollers, the Baldwin-built M4 is not correct; Steve modeled the Aunt Jemima tank using a standard M4 built by someone other than Baldwin. It was the previous model in the book that was the Baldwin M4. The later transmission cover can be found on the Tamiya Firefly kit, or on any of the Bandai kits, and on the later model Hobby Boss kits, so they are not hard to come by. The Finnish Baldwin M4 could have been used for the mine rollers. You'd have to look at photos to see for sure. As he mentioned in the book, Steve used an intermediate one-piece transmission housing from the Tamiya line because with the mine rollers installed, you couldn't see the transmission anyway.
For those looking to do M4A2s for the Marines, or Sherman IIIs for the Brits, all the Bandai Shermans have M4A2 lower hulls..... Mix 'n match Shermies...
I forgot to mention that all three of the M4s in the listing above have the E 4186 intermediate transmission housing, and were probably originally built in the late summer or fall of 1943, very likely in the same production batch.
OK guys, this is why we have to have Joe Demarco.....
July 7 2009, 9:52 PM
write his book on the Sherman. Here is a quote from his post on a Yahoo tank discussion group about this Baldwin M4:
">I found what I figured could be the serial number on the rear left towing lug: 15446.<
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Appreciate that you included a photo of that. I reckon I don't have much more than a 60% success rate with recording serial numbers off Shermans what with paint build up, broken off tow lugs, not being able to look inside & so forth. No doubt about that one, though. S/N 15446 would have been accepted in May, 1943 & would have been assigned USA 3022548.
A lot of times, it's not possible to make out features in period photos, so it's always a pleasure to record info from verified examples. Aside from direct vision, the few other known Baldwins have been noted to have the fabricated, not cast, antenna, bow mg & light sockets; vertical upper rear hull plates, & a half round transition piece where the lower rear hull connects to the belly plate.
>What turret modifications do you think are post-war? The brackets in the rear of the turret?<
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Yes, & the commander's vision cupola mod, which included the mg pintle on the roof. I'm thinking that tank was built a few months too early for it to have had a "no pistol port" turret. Would guess the original turret would have had a welded up pistol port & a welded on applique patch.
There's a little rectangular, vertically oriented bump on the glacis a foot or so over from the headlight on the driver's side. That tank would have been built with the siren mounted towards the center of the glacis, but that bump suggests the siren was moved to the final position at some point. That would have been to accomodate the gun travel lock, although I don't see any weld scars from the travel lock in your pix. At any rate, the siren guard that's on there is mounted backwards & farther up the glacis than the usual location.
The Baldwins were built at the right time, & the majority of them were shipped overseas during WW II, to either the US or the Allies. They weren't wanted to be returned for the anticipated invasion of Japan (like, say, the M4A3E8s & M4A3E2s), so that's why we don't have many examples of M4(75)s here in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a WW II combat veteran Sherman, but, unfortunately, don't have an historical listing for # 15446. Adrian said it came to Finland from Germany. It might have been laying around a tank dump in Europe. It looks like there is a tag right next to the headlight on the driver's side. A few surviving Shermans have been seen with a tag in that location indicating recondition /rebuild by a French firm. No big deal, but if you get a chance to get back there sometime, would you check if there is anything written on that tag?
>What about the G in an octagon on the transmission cover?<
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That would be the caster's logo for American Steel Foundries - Granite City, Illinois. As mentioned, Kurt has a nice, illustrated piece about caster's logos on Hanno's Sherman Register Website. Every piece of a Sherman had/ has a part number. For instance, if you climbed up on your tank, you'd probably see D50878 cast into the roof of the turret. The part number of the first version of the one piece differential housing is E4186. You will see that on all such diffs. B487 is the serial number, & would be exclusive to that individual diff housing. I don't think anyone has been able to document the meaning of "LO." Personally, I think "BU" stands for Buick. They made power trains for the Sherman series."
So there you have it, the best poop on Baldwin M4s. It would appear the turret is likely a replacement, possibly during the post-war refurbishment. So, you'd want a turret with a welded up pistol port and welded on turret reinforcement armor. Leave off the BMG brackets and use the older gun ring hatch for the TC. Basically, this would be the Tamiya M4 turret with sprue or fine plastic rod or putty to simulate the welding around the pistol port.
Thanks for the info on Baldwins, but I have a question!
When Baldwin switched from producing Small hatch DV upper hulls with the rear verticle plate. Did the verticle plate carry over into the Large Hatch upper hull production line?
because when Baldwin started building 75mm M4 Shermans, there wasn't much under the tailplate except the air cleaners and exhaust stacks, so the vertical plate would not have fouled anything. But later models had a coolant radiator under there and some had an air deflector, and I suspect they needed all the room they could find. But, I do not know for certain. I have never seen any photo of a large hatch welded hull with a vertical tailplate. In fact, they all seem to be angled even more than the small hatch hulls, even the large hatch M4A1 cast hulls. I've looked at a couple of thousand Sherman pix over the last 40+ years, but I don't remember seeing any that did not have the usual angled rear plate.
