Tackling the Tamiya Jagdpanther at the moment.
I read that being a late model the tool placement is incorrect and they should be on the rear panel.
Does anyone have a guide to placement of the tools on the rear panel? and secondly, I fear I may wreck the tools slicng them off so does anyone make a suitable set of replacements?
Yes, the Tamiya Jagdpanther is the later G2, built only from January 1945 to the end of production. As such, it can't really be used for any 1944 scenarios, regrettably - conquest of Germany only, folks..... The tools on the G2 were moved to the rear deck and tailplate to better protect them from damage. I assume that since JPs often fired from ambush, they drove through heavy brush more often than the Panther tanks did, and perhaps lost more tools that way. At any rate, they are all on the rear.
PanzerTracts 9-3, Jagdpanther, has all the drawings you'd need to make the late JP, or convert it to the earlier models. Here is a description of the JP G2 tool stowage:
Superstructure rear plate: fire extinguisher right next to right side of large rear hatch, centered on hatch height; shovel, angled on rear plate, end of handle just above upper right corner of large hatch, head in bracket at lower right corner of rear plate, clamp for handle 1/4 down from top end.
Engine deck: sledge hammer, angled on rear deck, end of handle in open square bracket at right side of center deck section, head in open "U" bracket with hold-down clamp next to head at center of rear deck; axe, across rear edge of deck, open ring bracket just to the right of the centerline, bracket for axe-head along left side of deck center section aligned with rear edge of left round access hatch on rear deck, hold-down clamp aligned with left edge of left access hatch. Now the problem with this is that the Tamiya kit uses the access hatches on the rear deck from the JP G1, which are different. On the G2, the two access hatches (one for fuel, one for water) were both the smaller size, and the left one was a few inches forward of the one on the right. Tamiya's arrangement has the original larger left access hatch, which is not correct and will interfere with the brackets for the axe. Your call..... Onward.....
Tail (rear hull) plate: jack, stowed vertically between the exhausts; starter crank, stowed vertically between left exhaust and left stowage bin, longer straight portion up, bends to left to allow crank to clear left lower access hatch, lower end of crankl next to side armor plate; "C" towing shackles, stowed in "T" shaped brackets across bottom of tail plate, left one directly below left exhaust, right one below right half of large round engine access hatch, just a bit lower than left bracket; wire cutters, stowed vertically (handles down) below inboard edge of right stowage bin, across lower right oval access hatch; track tension tool, stowed vertically just inboard of right stowage bin, open side up, with upper end protruding a few inches above the engine deck.
the rear plate stowage very well. However, note that the upper views all show the earlier G1, not the later Tamiya G2 - the engine decks are different. Also, the bottom rear view apparently shows an early production G1 as modified by sPzJagAbt 653: the addition of the extra stowage box on the left rear superstructure plate and the removal of tools to the rear. The bottom upper view also shows one of these modified vehicles. This, however, was not how the later G2s were built at the factories. The G2 kept the wooden jack block mounted on the right side of the superstructure, and the cleaning rod canister on the left, as built.
The Tamiya kit is a mix of earlier and later details, though basically, it is a Jagdpanther ausf G2. The Tamiya kit has the G1 pattern of mounting bolts for the engine deck engine hatches and rear deck plates and, as mentioned, the earlier large access hatch on the left of the rear deck area. All this is grist for the modeler's mill. This is what makes it an art form, the choosing of which detail battles to fight, or not. I'm glad someone was able to post plans of the rear stowage, as the description was a bear..... Enjoy.
I don't know what to say, thank you hardly seems enough for the effort you guys put in to responding!
The combination of your two responses will allow me to make most of the changes that I'm prepared to do, it should ensure that it looks a little more like a late one than the slight mish mash it is!
Really do appreciate the time you guys put into responding, it really is very much appreciated.
There may be another question looming so stay tuned!
Mence, there is one additional thing you could.....
October 15 2009, 2:39 AM
consider, though it of course would mark you as a shifty character ( )..... You could always modify the rear deck to look more like the earlier G1 (most of which had the bigger bolted mantlet collar in the Tamiya kit). Technically, on the G1, the front air intake grills were narrower than they were on the G2, but the difference is not that great in 1/48. The hitch is having to find two Panther A-type larger intake grills for the rear of the engine deck. These would go back to the end of the deck as they do on the Panther D/A. King Tiger grills are not really accurate, but could give the impression, especially if you use PE screens over them. If you wanted to do this, I'd never tell.....
Re: Mence, there is one additional thing you could.....
October 15 2009, 12:44 PM
If you need better scans or more pics pm me and i can send them to you fom the books i have on the jagdpanther. A lot of the tool moves were done by the unit maintenance units as feild mods. So there is a little play there. Older vehicles getting upgraded when they came in for other serviceing was a common thing to do.
I'll take a couple of pics of the one is did and post them also. But i used the tamiya kit and the PE tools clamps. The barrel cleaning box was sracth built but that is really easy to replicate anyways and the one in the kit has so so details.
The scans you ran are fine for both the Tamiya G2....
October 15 2009, 7:05 PM
and the G1 modified by sPzJgAbt 653. It would help to have a good plan of the G2 engine deck for the tool placement, BUT the G2 tool placement was identical to the '653 mods except for the wire cutters, axe, and hammer. My written description should be a decent guide, but beware Tamiya's kit has too many bolts around the engine deck sections - across the rear the first bolts inboard from the corner bolts should go. And that pesky too-big access hatch will block proper placement of the axe, which is why I made the comment about converting the G2 to a visually acceptable G1. In fact, the mods done by '653 are attractive enough I want to build one of their JPs, so I will be using this information myself.
out of elderberry wine..... I don't know what you are comfortable doing, but an easy way around the large access hatch thing is jujst to cut it off carefully and make a second small one to the existing kit parts pattern, and cement it in place aligned with the forward edge of the original large round access hatch. This will get you a true G2 engine deck and you're good to go for all the tool moves.
But, IF you want to do one of '653's modified JPs, you can mod the engine deck to a visual G1 type, and do one of those. The cross-mounted cleaning rod canister will help hide any funny business with the rear wide air intake grills. Boy, do you have possibilities.....
The path of least resistance for what you want....
October 16 2009, 8:28 PM
to do is probably to remove the too-large round access hatch and replace it. Then you would have a bog standard JP ausf G2 rear deck, and the tool stowage after that is pretty cut and dried. To me, the altered '653 JP G1 with the new tool stowage is an attractive option, but then you'd have to build the box they added to the superstructure rear plate. I'd guess going for the true G2 deck would be the easiest thing to do. If there is anything I can do to help you out here, I'd be glad to try. Courage.....
That could very well sort everything out in one go. To be honest, I dont mind whether its an early or late one I build as long as its pretty accurate and this looks good.
Just two questions anyone, whats the lump on the back of the superstructure? and would an early model be in Tri colour cam as well as the late ones or were they different?
Mence, this is a mixed bag, but there are good....
October 18 2009, 4:42 PM
things included. The new gun barrel and rear idler are nice and do fill the bill. However, the new air intake grills are not accurate. The Panther ausf A grills had only three sections from side to side, not the four sections used by MR; the narrower ausf G grills had the four section design. So, there should be only two fore and aft struts, not three on all four grills on the Panther A/JP G1 deck. The box on the back of the superstructure is the unique stowage bin used by sJzJagAbt 654, which means all the tools would have been moved to the rear plate and engine deck. If you use PE screens over the grills, I believe they will look OK. The early flush mantlet MR uses was used through August of 1944, so if you want a Normandy JP, you'll have to use the early flush mantlet. Send me an email, and I may be able to help you some more. Courage.....
Mence, be aware I'll be getting the MR set myself.....
October 18 2009, 4:46 PM
no point reinventing the wheel..... Except for the grill faux pas, the rest of it appears to be quite good, and I can deal with the grills. Go for it.....
Hi Bruce ,that jagdpanther set will work for me as it will save to much sratch building ,I have just got some of the panzer tracts books and with the help of the scale measurment info that you and the other guys put up i was able to make a good set of 48th plans for the jagdpanther and poor old gaston got it wrong big time mr jentz's drawing show me that the tamiya jp is very good and it's shape is very close to the money .Oh and by the way you should try marlborough new zealand savenigon blonic from the wine company that i work for it's very nice and im sure you will like it .The company is ALAN SCOTT WINES so have ahunt for it you wont regret it . thanks wayne
i noticed the gun housing is the really early version, without the bolts on it. So would be only good for the first production batch done of the vehicle.
No, actually the "early" flush mount was installed.....
October 19 2009, 12:25 PM
until August 1944, so you'd HAVE to use the MR mantlet for ANY Normandy JPs. The ones with the first bolted mantlets left the factories in Aug 44, and they had the interim mount: a bolted mounting that fit flush with the glacis plate, not the later Tamiya overhanging mount mantlet. You could model that by trimming the mantlet closer to the bolts and enlarging the hole in the glacis until the mount was almost flush, but this was a very limited interim style, only two months, and most probably not worth the effort. The Tamiya kit could be converted to a fall 1944 (Oct-Dec) production JP by reworking the air intake grills. Note that to be truly accurate,you'd have to cut and pull back the rear superstructure plate about 1.5mm (1/16") at the bottom, since the G1 engine deck was very slightly shorter than the G2 deck of the Tamiya kit, but frankly I don't recommend that because of the extra work and the fact that no one will notice the difference. The main part of the Tamiya engine deck is a G1 with G2 air intake grills, so you really could go either way. See the above posts. But, the MR conversion is essential if you want to do any Normandy campaign JPs. Other than the glitch with the air intake grills, it looks like a really good set. Throw some PE screens (Tiger II should work) and the glitch should be pretty well hidden.
Yes, well, let's not get into the relative merits of.....
October 19 2009, 12:32 PM
plans vs photos, shall we? I agree: the Tamiya Jagdpanther is an accurate representation, but for the minor mixup in a couple of engine deck details, and the too-large coolant access hatch can be overlooked if you don't want to do the work or feel you can't. The MR set will allow building an earlier version. I forgot to mention that the new rear idler appeared in June 1944, so a late summer JP could use the Tamiya kit idler and be accurate. A lot of possiblities here, and good on Matthias for making it possible.
I found something else that you might find interesting. Its a PE set for Jagdpather from Part. If you look at the instructions it has some items for an early version. Not sure if it helps, but I never noticed this before. Take a look at the instructions - looks like it covers 3 different versions.
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