Can anyone point me to some information about the possible dangers associated with using red food coloring in hummingbird feeder solutions? I know it is generally frowned upon and probably few people on this board use it. I never use it myself because I think there's a chance it could be hazardous (since even people are worried about food coloring sometimes) - so why risk it? Plus I doubt it makes a difference in attracting them. But does anyone know of any real research that says definitively, that it is hazardous or risky to hummer health (and even if there isn't, it still doesn't mean it's safe to use it, of course - it just means it hasn't been fully tested).

I want your wisdom because I know someone who insists their hummingbirds "like it" better than clear - which I think is probably a not-well-researched claim and they are just being lazy not making their own. I can't see how the color of the solution could matter as long as the feeder has red on it.

So - does anyone have some words of wisdom here? Or links they can give me to read more???

Feeding Hummingbirds
The Dangers of Red Dye

Ron
To my knowledge there is no scientific evidence that the red dye is harmful or fatal to hummers but there is published reports that Red dye #3 and Red dye #40 have proven fatal or harmful to other animals. Here is an article on Lanny Chambers' website that you may find informative. It is quite long but worth reading http://www.hummingbirds.net/dye.html

Here is an aricle on Stacy Jon Peterson's website http://www.trochilids.com/dye.html

The following is an excerpt from an article by Jay Van Tussenbrook. The complete article is available at http://www.northwestnatureshop.com/naturearticlesRedNectar.html

"The most common form of red coloring used in hummingbird nectar is red #40. Red #40 is made from coal tar and petrochemicals. Essentially it is a form of motor oil. Now, applying the same logic that the folks who manufacture the red nectar mix do, there are probably no scientific studies that prove that it is detrimental to your human health to consume motor oil, so it should be safe to feed it to your family in small doses. Somehow this just doesn't sound right. In fact red #40 has been banned from many European countries, and the FDA has banned its use in America under several different circumstances. We still consume it in much of our food, but at a level that is supposedly "harmless" to humans. The average hummingbird however is much smaller and has a much faster metabolism than your average human. It has been proven in scientific studies that at a more concentrated level red #40 does cause "significant DNA damage" in the colons of lab mice. This then is the substance you would be feeding to your hummers. According to some, the amount of this chemical present in commercially available mixes means that any hummingbird that drinks it is actually getting a dose (by weight) that is many times more than the "safe" amount recommended by the FDA, and many times more than the amount used in studies to cause damage to the mouse DNA."

In my unscientific opinion, that unless a manufacturer takes the best nectar plant on the planet and analyzes every component found in the natural plant nectar and then duplicates it exactly including the proportions of each and every element then they are playing a dangerous game with our the hummers as well as other nectar seeking creatures. I know that we are focusing on hummers here but our honey bees also drink the nectar and could this be a reason that our native honeybee populations have declined at such an alarming rate???? Food for thught.


Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Thanks for all the links! This is great stuff. Hopefully I will change some minds about this.

The "official"
Hummingbird Forum recommendation is to NOT use red food coloring in feeder water.

-
Cheers,Bob

USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6a
Lexington,Ky.
It's Autumn!

Penny, That is great detective work - thanks so much for putting all that information and research together. It explains why in certain common sense terms why it just isn't something anyone should want to risk on hummers!!!

Since this topic seems to come up every year would it make sense to put this information in a FAQ thread to refer folks to?

Carol
Milford, CT
Zone 6

Good idea. It's in the FAQ now

-
Cheers,Bob

USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6a
Lexington,Ky.
It's Autumn!

There is also another excellent article by or referenced by Sheri Williamson (Tzunun) from the Southeastern Arizona Bird Observatory (SABO) but unfortunately I wasn't able to locate it. I had it saved at one time but can't find it now. Nancy may be familiar with it.

Thanks Bob for adding this to the FAQ

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Unfortunately, some people are just hard-headed on this subject, and I wonder how much evidence it would take to convince someone who believed that "hummingbirds prefer red nectar".

Considering I've never seen red nectar in any plant (nor know of any plants that produce it), we should be able to start with the assumption that the closer we can get to approximating "the real stuff" is better - hence clear nectar OUGHT to be, by intuition, better.

The problem in dealing with someone who demands studies on hummingbirds, however, is that it's impossible to devise a study that accurately measures what you're trying to test. Wild hummingbirds (for lack of a better term) are going to be eating nectar from dozens, scores, or hundreds of sources, along with a steady diet of insects for protein, and nectar consumption will vary dramatically depending on whether the bird is breeding, migrating, preparing to migrate, or wintering. Feeding a wild bird artificial nectar will almost certainly replace only a part of its diet, at least in any but the coldest wintering situation (when natural nectar is gone and bugs are dormant), so there are no "controls" to determine how much of any one food source is consumed.

Conversely, for a captive bird, the stress levels will be different, metabolism may be affected, certainly flight range (and thus energy consumption) will be altered, and the proportion of foods from each source offered may not resemble the wild proportions at all. So, as the existing studies have shown, all we can do is test on other animals (like lab mice) and hope that we can in some way extrapolate some results into educated guesses.

In that light, I doubt anyone who's made up his mind that "birds prefer red nectar" is likely to be convinced otherwise because the kind of evidence they would need (We fed hummingbirds this stuff and it caused higher rates of cancer) is unlikely to ever be found.

Which is sad, because inductive reasoning suggests exactly the opposite - birds are used to clear nectar in nature, so why mess with success?

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Was this the article you were mentioning?

http://www.trochilids.com/dye.html

Karen
Southern California

No Karen,
I posted that link it was one that Sheri posted I thought from her website a couple of years ago but when I went to the SABO site I couldn't find it so it may have been an outside link

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Here it is Penny

http://home.mindspring.com/~tzunun/reddye.htm

sarah merion station, Pennsylvania zone 6B

Thank you so much Sarah! I have been going crazy trying to find that article. I now have it saved.


Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

All I ever say to people to try to convince them NOT to use red coloring in their h'bird feeders is that, in nature, the flowers are RED and the nectar is CLEAR... 'Nuff said?!

Or to paraphrase Joan Crawford, "NO... RED DYE... EVUH!"

Bill McClure
Zone 6A

That's a great way of putting it Bill!

Susan Louise
from Branford CT/ live in Lincoln NE
Zone 5

There is another no no going around which I first read on another forum but have seen it mentioned elsewhere. Substituting Honey for cane sugar. I know that our members no better than to use anything but plain granulated sugar but for any new people who read this post PLEASE DO NOT USE HONEY IN PLACE OD SUGAR! Hummingbirds do not make honey Bees do. Hummingbirds do not drink honey they drink simple nectar. Sugar water is the closest thing to simple nectar.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

I look at it this way: many (human) food companies that used red dye number whatever ceased doing so after some studies linked it to cancer, so why take the chance with an animal we all adore?

Maryjane
W Ga
Zone 8a

Of course I agree that red dye is unnecessary and potentially harmful. I also have met those people who, for whatever reason, are hard-headed about using the mix you buy at big box stores with the red dye already in it. They've said it's easier, or that "those companies know what they're doing better than I do," or whatever. Scientific data and logic usually solve it as everyone has mentioned above.

But I did have one friend who wouldn't be altered. Finally, I calculated what it would cost to buy the premade red mix versus making your own nectar from cane sugar and water for one month. I can't remember exactly what the figures were, but it was something like 5 times as expensive to buy the red stuff. So that changed him over in a hurry! =) Hey, whatever works!!

Zone 7B
North Carolina Piedmont

First, I agree with what is generally being said here--red dye is unnecessary and potentially harmful, so why use it? Another downside is that it would be hard to tell if the sugar water is getting cloudy with the red dye in it, so you may not realize that your sugar water solution is going bad.

However, not all natural nectar is clear! There are some very interesting examples of colored nectar produced by certain flowers, including red nectar. There is an interesting review paper on the topic; here is a link for those who are interested:

http://mit.biology.au.dk/~biojmo/pdf/Hansen%20et%20al%202007%20Coloured%20Nectar.pdf

Donald

Zone 4 Red Wing MN