Received this email today from from Ed Charlton:

" I'm a new member on the network54 hummingbird forum. Penny from the forum has suggested I contact you. A common problem for people who use nectar feeders to attract and feed hummingbirds is the nuisance of attracting bees to the nectar. We have developed a plastic part that upgrades many models of Perky Pet TM feeders so they'll be bee proof. We're now doing beta testing on the product. We would like to offer our product free of charge to five of your members in exchange for their comments on the forum. How do we proceed with our offer?"


Thank you Penny for directing Ed's email to me.

As you know,we try to be as non-commercial as possible. Given problems many of us have with bees on our feeders,Ed's offer seems reasonable. So,do we have five forum members who would like to take Ed's offer?



-
Cheers,Bob
USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6a
Lexington,Ky.
It's Summer!

Hi Bob, I would volunteer but this summer we hardly have any bees. Bee count 3, hummer count 25. Couple summers ago I had to rig up a 1 gal chicken watering container with a weak nectar mixture and place it 15 feet from my feeders as a diversion. The bees went through 2 gallons of nectar a day !!!!!!




Karen
Southern California

Sign me up. Bees are not currently a problem, but as weather gets cooler, they do crowd the feeders at my place. I would love to test the bee guards. I can also test them at my banding site, where bees are a more frequent problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

I'm probably in the perfect situation to evaluate bee guards if they're to be used on the four flower feeders. I used over a dozen of these feeders last year. I believe the replacement part number is PP 205-Y. The past few years, as early as October the bees have become a problem. As flowers die off due to the end of normal blooming season or a frost, the bees begin coming to the feeders more often. The warmer the day, the more the problem. On a few occasions, by January, my neighbors have had to quit feeding the hummers temporarily due to the number of bees. The final banding session in my yard last year got called on account of bees. It became too dangerous working around the feeder and the competition for the feeder between hummingbirds and bees began resulting the hummers refusal to sit on the feeders preventing us from closing the cage.

Our bees heads are just small enough to get inside the guard but not small enough to pull out. If I find the bee while it's still alive, I can sometimes help it to escape but sometimes I just have to flick it and hope for the best. Most often though, the bee is dead with its head stuck in the guard when I find them.

I've had a minimal problem with squirrels breaking the bee guards so I'm short on them and I've begun plugging some of the feeder ports so I can reduce my need for guards. The best price I can find for them is approximately a dollar each so I've been reluctant to purchase more since I'm not totally satisfied with how they work and I never see more than one bird at a feeder at a time anyway. So, why do I need four ports per feeder?

I periodically find pieces broken off of the guard which allows for the bees to enter the feeder. On occasion, I've gone to clean the feeder and found ten bees inside the glass above the level of sugar solution, sometimes still alive. I won't open that one in the house again. Perhaps this is not a complaint in that some of these broken guards have lasted so long that they are just brittle and break when I'm cleaning them and go unnoticed. Others may have been broken by other birds or gentle squirrels.

So, if you don't mind waiting 6-8 months for the results, I may be in a position to evaluate the bee guards.



Steve Backes
Valrico, FL (east of Tampa)
http://mysite.verizon.net/resu64md/yardhummers/
http://floridahummingbirds.net/
http://floridahummingbirds.proboards.com/

OK - two down and three to go

-
Cheers,Bob
USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6a
Lexington,Ky.
It's Summer!

I'm game as well - though the comment that it upgrades "many models of Perky Pet TM feeders" leads me to think that they're not talking about the Four Fountains feeder. Insofar as I know, no other Perky Pet model has a feeding port that is similarly sized.

My guess is that these guards would fit the various PP models with the flat yellow flowers, since there are at least four or five of those with a similar or identical design. I know I've got at least four feeders using that design and Nancy has a few as well.

Like Nancy, bees aren't a problem here yet, but they often are during the peak of fall migration and into the winter.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Where is Steve, I thought he was one that had a bee problem

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Penny, He's out fighting with the bees

Karen
Southern California

I would be interested in testing these. Do they also deter yellowjacket and other wasps? I have a huge number of bees this year, which is a good thing but a fair number are falling into the ports and drowning, not a good thing. The wasps aren't at their peek but get very nasty mid to late august.
Cheri
(aka hummymummy, vancouver, b.c. canada z8 (?)

I'll volunteer if you still need anyone.

I'd be interested in testing these. I have a Perky Pet pinch waist feeder if that qualifies. I'm starting to get a few bees and usually get more as the summer progresses.

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

OK, we now have five plus a spare;all we need now is Ed

-
Cheers,Bob
USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6a
Lexington,Ky.
It's Summer!

Sounds like you have excellent choices for testers Bob!

Carol
Milford, CT
Zone 6

If anymore testers are needed I will be happy to volunteer. From about the middle of August thru October my feeders are covered with bees.

Patti--Zone 8
Mobile, AL

Wow! That's what I call a favorable response! Those of you who've been kind enough to volunteer will be getting an email from me (to your network54 designated email) asking for your shipping address.

Kevin is exactly right. This product is a set of yellow plastic flowers that replaces the flat yellow plastic flowers used by Perky Pet TM. It doesn't use the cage design of Perky Pet's upgrade, so no plastic pieces get knocked-off, which fixes the problem Steve describes. Hummymummy, this will deter wasps, hornets, yellow-jackets.

Thanks everybody for your help and enthusiasm.

Looking forward to your comments!

Ed Charlton
ed.charlton@gmail.com

Cheri, Joan, and Linda V, I can't find or link to your e-mails. Please send me an email with your shipping address?

ed.charlton@gmail.com

Ed,

If you'd like a Northerners point of few, I have plenty of Bumble bees (and some that are bigger, maybe just Jumbo bees) and yellow jackets invading the feeders now. I have their "Our Best" feeder that has 5 ports I believe.

Will this fit on First Nature feeders? Alot of us have switched to these and the hummers love them, unfortunately, so do the bees.

http://www.firstnature.net/product_hummingbirdfeeders.phtml

I cane take a closer pic if your not familiar with them.



Pam NJ 6B

Pam,

My guess would be that these wouldn't fit a First Nature feeder (or most of the other feeders out there.

The reason is simple: these bee guards replace the flat yellow flowers that are on several of the PP feeder designs, including these:

http://www.birdfeeders.com/store/hummingbird-feeders/BHBOBN

http://www.birdfeeders.com/store/hummingbird-feeders/216

http://www.birdfeeders.com/store/hummingbird-feeders/210P

http://www.birdfeeders.com/store/hummingbird-feeders/211

Each of these uses the same yellow flower, which "plugs into" a much larger hole than the actual feeding port (which is in the flower). Any feeder port that these would fit into would be so large as to just leak like a sieve.

Now.... it might be possible to take something like a First Nature feeder, drill out the feeder port hole to the same size as the holes the yellow flowers plug into, and then use these guards. But that seems like a lot of work.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge

Kevin, you know where-of you speak! Our product replaces the flat, yellow, plastic removable Perky Pet TM style flower, which plugs into their feeder base. To use our bee-guard flower, you'd have to drill holes in the base of your First Nature feeder, as Kevin describes.

Ed

I was able to attach the round Perky Pet protruding Bee Gaurd to the $.99 Walmart Mini Hummer feeders that they love so much. And that works until some bee gets desperate enough to worm its way inside the cage and get stuck. But its working for now. I've suddenly gotten a hugh amount of bees. I have tons of flowers, so I guess that is the problem.

I still have the one Perky Pet "Best Feeder" out that they really like. But I've seen the hummers get chased away from it.

Pam NJ 6B

Beta Testers, your bee guard flowers are in the mail. Most of you should receive them early next week. Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Ed

Thanks for the heads up Ed.  We'll be watching the mail for them.

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

I hope that the testers and Ed will let us know the results of these bee guards.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

I'm hoping the beta testers will post their results right here on the forum.

Ed

I received my bee guards today. I will put them on the feeders when I change nectar tomorrow.

Question for Ed, on my 4 port feeders, is it okay if I just put 2 bee guards on and leave 2 of the regular ones on to see which ones the hummers utilize the most? The honey bee population really starts picking up in a couple of weeks.

Patti--Zone 8
Mobile, AL

Sure, Patti, that's fine. My guess is your hummers will use the "old" flowers and the "bee-proof" flowers the same amount. Another guess is that the bees will only use the old flowers and will quickly not use the bee proof version. When it gets to be serious bee season for you, I'll bet you'll have four bee-proof flowers on your feeder!

Ed

Sounds like I should expect the bee guards anyday now. I have the Perky Pet feeder clean and ready to hang and begin testing when they arrive.  The bees are already making things difficult for the hummers trying to use the 97 cent Walmart special.

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

My bee guards came in the mail yesterday.  I put them in the feeder and hung it out. That feeder has 6 ports and I have 5 guards so I'll have a 'control' for this test!  This morning I saw a hummingbird using the feeder. He seemed hesitant about how to go about finding the nectar at first but once he did he settled in for some good long drinks. I saw him come back a few more times before I had to leave for work.  No bees so far.

Any comments or first impressions from our beta testers?

Ed

Ed, I sent you a private e-mail this morning. I didn't get mine yet.

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

Joan, sorry for the foul-up. Put a set in the mail to you tonight. You should have them by Friday.

Ed

Thanks so much Ed. I appreciate it.

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

Ed,

On the plus side, I can report that on the feeders I've outfitted with your guards, I'm not having any bee problems.

On the minus side, both bee and hummingbird numbers are extremely low for this time of year - normally I'm already getting good sized groups of post-breeding dispersals and early migrants, but I'm lucky most days if I see more than two at a time. I plan to keep the feeders with these guards up throughout the winter season here, though (assuming I get winter birds again, which isn't a given), and hopefully I can keep you posted on feedback with more numbers soon.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Praise for the bee guards. The hummingbirds have been using the feeder regularly and I haven't seen any bees or other flying insects on the feeding ports at all.

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

Ed, haven't received mine yet, but that is pretty normal for mail going to canada. I am having pretty severe wasp issues with the wasps chasing the hummers, but it seems the Rufous have moved on, though I might see a few stragglers. might not be able to test it till next year.
Cheri
(aka hummymummy vancouver, b.c. canada z8

Cheri, I'm sorry to hear they haven't gotten to you, yet. When I mailed 'em, the post office said it'd take 5-10 days to reach you in Canada. Ten days has got to be up very soon. Hope you get them to be able to use them this season. If not, there's always next year! Mebbe the snow'll hold off 'til September.

Ed

Ed, thanks for the opportunity and I'm happy to report in with favourable results. The guards arrived on the 18th of August and since I had no hummers at all on the 17th to the 2oth I'd thought that maybe it was over for the year. On the 21st a bird showed up but did not use the feeder. Yesterday and today another bird arrived and took to the feeder several times both days without hesitation. It was amazing on the first day that I inserted the new guards as the yellow jacket wasps went beserk. The first half hour the feeder was literally covered in irate wasps in clumps attacking each other till they finally gave up. A few times a day now a wasp will check it out but soon gives up. I would say these guards are a huge success for me. I don't know what type of plastic you are using or how durable it is, remains to be seen, however I am quite impressed thus far. I will probably not use them on my one winter feeder as I have chickadees and other birds as well as the odd Anna's in the winter using the feeder. I will report back next year when I have a larger number of hummingbirds if that will be usefull to you.
Thanks again,
Cheri
(aka hummymummy, vancouver, b.c. canada z8ish)

Ed,

Now that I'm getting a few more hummingbirds I, too, can report that the birds seem to have adapted to the new "flowers" very easily and I haven't yet seen any bees or wasps at them. I have had a few bees at the Four-Fountains type feeders (with no flowers or bee guards) so I know there are some around. It may be that with easy pickings on the Four Fountains, the other feeders wouldn't be bothered as much anyway, but I'll know more as the fall season develops.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Folks, thanks for testing the flowers and writing back. Please keep it coming!

Ed

Well it seems that people are having very favorable results with Ed's bee guards. I didn't apply to test since I don't have PP feeders. I have to use all sorts of ingenious plants to keep the yellow jackets at bey. I have removed all my bottlwe feeders and replaced them with the saucer feeders or the First Nature feeder. I did leave up two of the test tube feeders and those are the only ones being bothered by the Yellow Jackets.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Hi, Penny. I just hung up a First Nature feeder a couple of days ago. So far, so good. To use our flowers you have to enlarge the feeding portal with a 9/32" drill, though. The plastic is pretty soft, so it was easy to do. My Dad (who designed the flowers) did the same thing with a pinch-waist Homestead feeder. We'll keep you posted.

Ed

I did it with a Walmart feeder as well.

Thanks Ed, I haven't had a problem with the oringinal style First Nature base but since the newer base has larger oval holes I do have more of a problem with those.

Joan,
You used the bee guards on the lillet mini walmart feeders and it is working out for you? That's great. I may just have to give those a try as I have to quit using those minis this time of the year.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

I had it hung in my yard, but no bees or birds right now, so I sent it to Lizette's yesterday. She said the bees were feeding around the bottom of the feeder where the base screws on so I had wrapped some clear shipping tape around the juncture. I don't know if she is using it because she wasn't sure that the glue on the tape would hold up in the heat so I don't know what to make of it yet. I was hoping even if the bees were on the feeder that the birds still might be able to use the port. I caught a glimpse of a bird today so I'm going to ream out another feeder and put the bee guard on.

Joan, bees that find a reliable nectar source recruit more and more members of the hive to collect it. Last year the W-mart feeders ended up with baseball sized clumps of bees that could drain them in a couple of hours. Hummers just gave up. So today I made a bee guard for the other, "non-port" problem spot on the feeder you brought over. Tomorrow I'll hang it and see what happens.


Lizette, New Orleans, La.
USDA Zone 9

Yikes, I didn't know you had that many bees. Let me know how your invention works out.

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

The guards are doing their job on the Perky Pet feeder wonderfully.  I'm thinking of trying one of them on the walmart 97 cent feeder since that one attracts flying insects that the hummers have to compete with.

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

Joan, three neighbors here have had to have walls opened up to facilitate the removal of large beehives! That's why I took the w-mart feeder down while there were still only about a dozen bees using it.
Today I hung yours with the bee guards on it in the spot where mine was. So far, so good, at least as far as bees and wasps are concerned. I didn't see any hummers use it but that doesn't mean much. The locals seem to have departed, and the one bird that was hanging out in the yard was mainly interested in the firespike. Here's a pic of the feeder with guards.




Penny, the test tube feeders seem perfect for Ed's bee guards. It's really easy to enlarge the port enough to accept one. Unlike the w-mart special there's no need to drill, just use a small exacto knife. I'd be leery of using them on the First Nature, though. They're rigid, and with a much smaller opening I'd worry about bill damage.


Lizette, New Orleans, La.
USDA Zone 9

Lizette,
First let me say thanks for posting a picture of your feeder with the bee guard. It is a lot esier to actually see how it is attached.

I really don't have a problem with the old style First Nature feeders so that is the ones that I am more apt to use this time of year if I need a larger feeder (which this year I don't) and so far the yellow jackets are leaving the test tube feeders alone which amazes me as they usually go after those right away. Maybe putting out the bowl of sugar water for the bees early made the difference but I will definitely have to give the bee guards a try.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Lizette, what is the green thing around the base?

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

Joan - I was wondering the same thing...something Lizette fashioned?

Carol
Milford, CT
Zone 6

I believe it is, Carol. She is having a problem with bees feeding from the juncture between the base and the cylinder. I had no idea she had that many bees hanging around her yard.

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

I think the thin green thing around the base is how she's attached the perch. That's my vote anyway!

 

Linda V
Connecticut zone 6b

I think you're right, Linda, but I was looking at the wide green thing higher up.

Joan Garvey - Metairie, LA Zone 9

Folks, I wouldn't have expected our bee guard flowers to work on the test tube feeders. I'll pick one up and have a look!

Ed

That would be interesting Ed. Let us know how it works. I have to say that the birds really take to those test tubes but they aren't practical for those who have lots of birds as you would be refilling them all day long and I do mean all day long.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Y'all, the green thing is a piece of a plastic water bottle that's meant to keep the bees/wasps from accessing the sugar water in the gap between the base and the bottle. Since it's already curved it conforms pretty well to the shape of the feeder. I cut out a semicircle to go around the port and used all weather velcro to keep it in place.
Ed, here's a picture of a test tube feeder with Joan's bee guard on it. Looks like it should work fine.




Lizette, New Orleans, La.
USDA Zone 9

Forgot to say....since yellow is supposed to be the color that most attracts bees, I avoid it as much as possible. Sure would be nice if these guards came in red.

Lizette, New Orleans, La.
USDA Zone 9

I have been following this thread with interest as everyone has. I was wondering if the new guards would work on the tiny walmart feeders as I have 4 of those hanging in back but wasps have pretty much taken over those as hummers have given those up. So I thought I needed to do a little rigging of my own to see If I can change things. It looks like crap but just might work. I have noticed a wasp on it twice trying to solve the mystery but dont believe they are getting anything. I have just used some clear plastic baggies and rubber bands to try and seal things off. I pricked a very tiny hole in the center of the port plastic and I did see one hummer try to use it but backed off may need to make that bigger.








Steve
Martinsville, In
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35

Steve, just to clarify, your pictures show the cage-type guards sold by the Perky Pet folks. The bee guards we're testing here are a much different design. You can see pictures of them in Lizette's posts above. Lizette is trying them out on test-tube feeders, although they're originally meant for Perky Pet inverted-bottle feeders.

Ed

Ed, just fyi: since I have some extra of the bee guards to test, and I happened to find one of the Nature's Best feeders cheap, I went ahead and snagged one to add to the arsenal. I'm going to drill out some of the holes to check out the bee guards on that feeder, and will let y'all know what happens.

I can't imagine in the east needing a feeder with ten ports (I've never seen more than, maybe, three Ruby-throats cooperate enough to share a feeder, and not for long) but I'll use the bee guards on some ports and perhaps cover over some of the others, and leave some untouched. That'll give me some variety to compare.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Kevin,
Believe it or not there are some locations in the northeast where there are large populations of hummers. One year I actually had almost more than I could keep up with but even at that I never saw more than three at a feeder at one time and that was a one time shot. I would love to be in that position again but migration seems to take its toll on my guys and gals.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

I'm continuing to have problems with yellow jackets at my unmodified First Nature ten-hole feeder. The feeding portals are large enough that they just crawl in and out of the base through the portals. So far, so good on a First Nature feeder that I retro-fitted with bee guard flowers. Used a 9/32" power drill.

Ed

Ed, thought I should explain why I have reservations about using these guards on the First Nature feeder.
In order to reach the nectar in saucer style feeders, hummers have to insert their bills a good bit further than they do with most bottle style feeders. If a feeding bird is attacked and has to take off quickly, I worry that it could suffer bill damage as a result. Several brands of saucer style feeders have undergone design modifications due to this concern. Many newer models are being offered (and some older ones retrofitted) with guards made of a flexible membrane that doesn't inhibit escape, but keeps bees out of the larger holes that are necessary for hummer safety. I don't know how effective they are.
The cage style bee guards have also been accused of causing bill damage. I don't know if this has been substantiated, but I'm not going to try to find out for myself. I'd rather be safe "with bees" than sorry without.


Lizette, New Orleans, La.
USDA Zone 9

Good observation Lizette, I agree the bee guard should be RED!!

Pam NJ 6B

Penny,

Oh, I'm aware that there can be swarms of Ruby-throats, especially in migration, almost anywhere in their range. It's just that I can't conceive of them cooperating enough to really use the extra ports, which then go either unused, or serve as bee magnets.

As much as I like the "Four Fountains" feeder for its ability to also serve larger birds, a single port like it has would probably be sufficient (if such a feeder were possible). That's another reason I use smaller feeders; even with big numbers (not this year, though), they can't feed from one feeder long enough for the food in it not to spoil too fast.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Kevin,
I apologize. I think I misinterpreted your prior post. Yest there are probably very few instances where there would be large enough swarms to use all the ports.


Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39