being passed on.
I guess it should be of no surprise, when there are businesses that still make red dye HB food, but I'll still share this new enlightening experience I had today.
I am a member of the Audubon Society and the National Wildlife Federation. BTW, we just had our Backyard Habitat certified...Yay!
Anyway, I was reading an article by a local retired bander (not of HB's though) that passed on advice in her column in our local Audubon chapter's newsletter about the duration of leaving HB feeders out. For the purpose of answering questions about how long to leave HB feeders up, she stated, and I quote:

"Our answer is based upon what nature is telling us, that is, the early freeze has reduced the supply of flowers for nectar, and we therefore should not be providing an artificial supply of food that keeps these birds from migrating in a timely manner..."

Hmmmmm, I was so upset about this, I called up the president of our local chapter and she said she knew nothing about Hummingbirds. And it came across to me that even after my explainations of providing her info about the thoughts otherwise, she gave me the impression that I didn't know what I was talking about, and the bander did.

I tried calling the main office in NY,NY...and I had to leave a message on their answering machine. I chose to not bother...

So, I decided to call a chapter of the Audubon society in Iowa, just for curiosity's sake...to see if these beliefs were across the board...so to speak. Nope, thankfully! The gentleman I spoke with in Iowa is also a member of the Ornithologist's union.

In conclusion, I guess there might be many individuals here locally who belong to the Audubon society and read the article in eastern Nebraska that will be bringing in their HB feeders by the end of September. Nothing I seemed to say made a difference. It seems as if feeding other wild birds is a good thing all year round, but for HB's, the belief is "natural selection"...go figure.






Susan Louise
from Branford CT/ live in Lincoln NE
Zone 5

Susan Louise,
The same mentality is present here in NY also. I chose to ignore these ideas and try to explain to people what I have learned over the years from those who do study and band hummingbirds. Some will listen with interest and some will dismiss your information.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

It is the same old folklore that has been passed around forever. Their hormones tell them to migrate, that and a good supply of fat which is another thing their hormones tell them to do. At least that is my folklore. For really late birds it probably doesn't matter what we do. They are where they don't belong and have little or no chance of making it out alive. Mother Nature is one harsh mistress.

Susan Louise, a little clarification might help folks to understand the situation. I assume you are a member of the National Audubon Society. There are a Florida Audubon Society and a Massachusetts Audubon Society that have no connection to the National Audubon Society and one of these two entities predates the national organization.

By and large, local chapters are membership organizations open to anyone willing to pay the dues. The officers and staff [if there is any] are usually ordinary folks who volunteer their time and do their best to provide information. There is no training manual and ordinary folks can be as fallible as elected governmental officials. I served as 'information officer' of our local chapter for 16 years. The range of questions spanned commonplace to bizarre. Seldom are the members professional ornithologists. Most chapters are cash poor and they rely on volunteers to do the work. Many do remarkable conservation work.

If you are a member of a local chapter and also a member of National, more than half of your dues go toward Audubon Magazine. I don't recall all of the percentages, but very little of your $$ remains with the chapter. As a separate issue, if you purchase a product that is endorsed by National Audubon, that is not a guarantee of any quality or of testing by the organization. When a product is endorsed by National Audubon, the manufacturer, publisher, etc., pays a 1% royalty for the use of the name and symbol.

As for the article in the newsletter, being a bander does not guarantee any specific level of learning. A bander has the opportunity to learn and many share their vast knowledge with others. However, if a question comes up that is not about the subjects of their studies, they may not be well informed.

One reason I began my hummingbird study was because the prevailing attitude of many people, including professional ornithologists was that any hummingbirds that were in Louisiana in winter were just local breeding Ruby-throateds that 'forgot' to migrate or they were artificially held back by feeders [which were not very commonly used]. I needed to prove that the Rufous, Black-chinned, and other species were not attracted from afar by feeders and that whatever Ruby-throateds might be around in winter had not been present in the nesting season.

As for the dictum that feeders should be taken down after the first frost, I generally recommend removing the feeders 2 or 3 weeks after the last hummer is present. Invariably, there will be a few hummers that linger. They linger because they are not in proper condition to migrate and as Ward points out, some of them will not survive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

For those who want some facts to refute what the misinformed "experts" try to promote, try these:

Southbound migration for Ruby-throated Hummingbirds begins in late July and early August, at a time when (in many areas) blooming plants are at their peak. Banding studies have demonstrated that in south Louisiana, for instance, the local breeding population has essentially entirely moved on by about August 15, and the waves of hummingbirds seen after that are all migrants from points north and east. The southbound migrant population peaks in south Louisiana somewhere around the 3rd to 4th week of September most years, with a rapidly diminishing trail of birds into October. This year, that seems to have run about a week or so late.

If it were truly scarcity of natural nectar sources that caused hummingbirds to migrate, southbound migration would start somewhere around the end of September or beginning of October (by which time, in reality, hummingbirds have almost completely left their northern range). The Louisiana population peak would then probably occur somewhere in early November.

In fact, hummingbirds readily abandon northern yards with feeders and flowers long before the last flowers die off; if a feeder had that much power to "capture" a hummingbird and keep it from migrating, there would be tens of thousands of hummingbirds caught in snowstorms in the northern part of their range. That we do not experience such is proof of what ornithologists already know, and have known for years: migration is triggered by hormonal activity which is in turn regulated, in large part, by increasing and decreasing length of daylight hours. In fact, for a hummingbird which is slow to migrate, a feeder may provide the only means that bird has of gaining enough fat to manage migration successfully.

Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, LA

Thank you Nancy and Keven!
Points well taken and worthy for sharing.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

So the smallest bird can travel 500 miles non-stop across the Gulf of Mexico, hover, fly upside down, and backwards, fly more than a thousand miles back to the EXACT same place it was 200 days later, but still has no idea when to migrate...

Strange.



- Andrew - Southern Ontario, Canada - Zone 6
- Won't Get Fooled Again ~ The Who.

Hello All,

I appreciate everyone's input and anyone else that would like to chime it...which was the point of my starting this thread...to see what others thought and their own opinions about this matter.

Nancy,

My husband and I are members of both the National and local Audubon Societies...as well as members of the National Wildlife Federation, now having a NWF Certified Backyard Habitat. In addition, we are also have memberships for Yellowstone National Park and donate to our local Children's Zoo here in Lincoln.

It's sad that the $$ for the Audubon Society seems to be near nil in helping the organization. It's too bad there isn't a way to change that situation for the better. I know our $$ that is donated for the other organizations have a much higher % of $$ that is put toward benefiting purposes other than a newsletter or pamplet. I believe if more individuals that belong to the Audubon knew this, the organization could make vast improvements.

I also knew that they are mainly based on volunteers. I also assumed (my mistake) that these volunteers would be more knowledgeable. In my opinion, I don't believe that the bander should have recommended to take down the feeders because it was preventing the hummers from migrating south...which to me is mis-information.

I also understand natural selection for what it is...
But, to me, for some birding enthusiasts, it's somewhat contradictory. The same individuals that believe to take HB feeders down also believe to leave all other bird feeders up all year long...which also include feeding other migratory birds.
Granted, knowing that birds/butterflies migrate according to the amount of sunlight/daylight as well as their food sources being available...such as birds that eat bugs need to head south for the winter as an example. Some of these birds eat seeds too, like the Grackles (as an example).
I just feel it's very contradictory that the same people that believe to leave feeders out for all other wild birds have different standards/thoughts about HBs.
We left our HB feeders out til this past Sunday...just about the 2 week time period you recommended.
Well, I guess we might be having more hummers visit our feeders in the future during the fall migration period for all of those in the area that will be taking them down earlier based upon the article written in our local newsletter.
This has definately inspired me to volunteer at one of our local parks within the nature center. I had been considering it...now it's just a matter of putting it in writing and starting the process.
I definately want to start being a part of helping the next generation and others who want to learn more about HB's and help encourage more backyard habitats to develop locally.

Susan Louise
from Branford CT/ live in Lincoln NE
Zone 5

I always leave my feeders up for several weeks after a killing frost. On at least two occasions the frost revealed a bird I didn't know I had. At this time of year the yard is mostly a mystery because I leave before full light and return as the sun sets. Thus far no November hummingbird has been a Ruby-throated in my yard, but it could happen. Especially this year, since we're still awaiting the killing frost.

We usually don't get a killing frost until sometime in November, so I leave my feeders up until the end of November, just in case.

Susan
zone 6a South St. Louis County, MO

Here in southwestern Jersey we've been on stay of execution for several weeks now. According to the long term weather forecast our last meal will be served by mid next week . Often there is a single early bad weather incident here, a bad frost or freeze to be followed by as long as a month of Indian Summer.

Because of this forum, I leave my feeders up for at least a month after my last HB goes.... strengthen the nectar mid-August and am obsessive about keeping the feeders clean and fresh. And my hummers were mostly gone by the second week of September this year, despite my late blooming garden and 13 feeders. So I don't need any more convincing that they go when their little clocks tell them to (and their body can cooperate).

They are far more complex and mysterious creatures and sure as heck not dependent on us keeping feeders up or taking them down. I presume they've been flying north and south far longer than many of us has set our yards to watch their beauty.

We can attract them and enjoy their magnificence but we do not control them! That is the magic.

I will just add this. This year, our first mature male Ruby throat arrived on the 8th Oct, a few weeks earlier than the past few years. The first immature male was spotted on the 18th Oct and the first female on the 24th Oct. all still earlier than other years.
When I looked at the information people from all North America have posted on Journey South,http://www.learner.org/jnorth/maps/humm_fall2009.html, and another I am also participating in, the http://www.goearthtrek.com site, it makes me wonder, 'why does a particular hummer decide, today's the day' when there are still so many hummers reasonably far north that so many other participants report seeing on the same day!
I don't understand why this year there are so few local hummingbirds around. Today for instance, the Ruby throats outnumbered those that were present.

Another reason to keep your feeders out (especially here in the east and midwest) is the chance that you will have a vagrant rufous or other rare HB visiting your habitat.

Rufous are more cold hardy than ruby-throateds, and although rare around here, are most often sighted late in the year, after the more common ruby-throateds have left.

Researchers are always interested in these out of area sightings, and of course local birdwatchers want to add those rare visiting HBs to their life lists, so sighting them and reporting them is most appreciated. This is why I keep at least one feeder out and winterized ).

In the past few weeks I know of 3 vagrant rufous reported HBs in the Ohio River valley. And one violet-eared HB.

Numbers of reported sightings are increasing as word is getting around.

Pls. keep an eye out!

J.

I am relativly new to this but one thing is for sure,their is no way we can change the genetic message encoded in these birds by feeding them.Stuff like DNA,Hormons etc.can be altered but i doubt if any of us can do that!We might provide a "last meal"for a bird that has some type of genetic defect or hormone imbalance but its thats the case so be it!The little (guys or dolls) shouldnt die hungry!I agree about red dye(bad),but still i dont think anything we do or dont do changes migration short of holding them in captivity which is illegial.The way i understand it their are some birds that dont migrate and their territory is spreading so i am leaving a few feeders out unless someone shows some concrete evidence that we are doing wrong.(Just my openion)(KISS SYSTEM)(keep it simple system!)

For us here having a feeder up early for the hungry birds migrating through in March and April seems to be beneficial for the birds, in the fall they leave in September and there are still lots of flowers and feeders never made them stay longer, but having more flowers has extended the time I see them from beginning of August till the second week of September.

I have been leaving a feeder up in the fall though just in case there was an Anna's around, this year the garden attracted one and she slowly started using the feeder so I will leave one up all winter now.

Friends of ours took there feeders down so the hummers would migrate, it didn't work they kept coming around, they didn't know they had Anna's Hummingbirds and they don't migrate.

I think leaving a feeder out just in case a hungry bird comes through is good idea.







Martin
--
Vancouver Island, zone 8B
Nikon D70/D200 300 f4 af-s, 400 2.8 af-i
www.frogpondphotography.com
www.frogpondphotography.blogspot.com

At the suggestion of one of our 'silent' members, I want to amend and clarify my advice made earlier on this thread regarding removal of feeders at the end of the season. That advice was aimed at folks living in areas of the country where it is extremely unlikely that a hummingbird can survive the usual extended subfreezing temperatures. A rule of thumb I might suggest is that if during an average winter, the temperature will plunge to below freezing and remain below freezing for 3 or more days and nights, then a hummer would have a difficult time surviving even with unlimited artificial food. There is no real rush to remove feeders there, but it seems adequate to me that feeders be maintained for 2-3 weeks after the last hummer sighting to accommodate any stragglers that might happen by.

Of course, there is no need to remove feeders to make or encourage hummers to migrate. They will leave when they are ready and the feeder may help some tardy birds to put on some fat to be able to leave. If you have hummers remaining when sustained bitter cold weather arrives, that is a different problem but you should know that you did your best to help a 'stranded' bird.

In other parts of the US, feeders can be maintained all year without fear. Southern California has year round populations of several species. There is no requirement to remove feeders. In much of the Southeast, winter feeding is possible if there are hummers visiting. For this region, it is important to remember that even in an otherwise mild winter, a single event of sustained freeing weather can be deadly to hummers. If you have wintering birds, then, it is extremely important that you maintain the feeder and that you provide heat to the feeder to keep it available.

With an area as large of the United States that is home to several species of hummers, it is not reasonable to think that a single 'rule' will accommodate all hummingbird hosts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9