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Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 3 2010 at 5:18 PM
  (Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

I walked across street to Sister's & took pix of her hummer that she tought had something stuck to her beak. It appears to me that it has been damaged. To me, it looks like her bottom beak is broken, maybe splintered, & if not part of her beak that is now dead, might also have something stuck to it. The top is obviously longer the the bottom. Give me your thoughts & if Connie, Nancy or Kevin sees this, if the beak is damaged, should I contact someone/anything that can be done? She is nice & fat & Sister says she does drink. This is the Hummer I posted about before that sat overnight on her feeder & she wondered if anything was wrong but didn't notice this then so that is why I think something might be stuck to it. I took about 7 pictures but these were the best.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Yodlei44 on Sep 4, 2010 10:31 PM
This message has been edited by Pennytoo on Sep 4, 2010 11:02 AM
This message has been edited by Yodlei44 on Sep 4, 2010 10:52 AM


 
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(Login Karen_Calypte)
Hummingbird Member 2006

Re: Follow Up to Geri's Post- Beak Damage?

September 3 2010, 5:34 PM 

Just an uneducated guess, but I was thinking perhaps it might be her (dry) tongue???????[linked image] Poor hummer. [linked image]

Karen
Southern California

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: Follow Up to Geri's Post- Beak Damage?

September 3 2010, 5:46 PM 

I thought that too but then I wouldn't think she could drink. [linked image]

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix) Nancy!

September 4 2010, 10:52 AM 

Bump

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Pennytoo on Sep 4, 2010 11:00 AM
This message has been edited by Pennytoo on Sep 4, 2010 10:57 AM


 
 


(Login Pennytoo)
Hummingbird Moderator 2005

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 11:04 AM 

Joni
I edited your orginal post and put Nancy's name in the title so hopefully she will see it right away when she comes to the forum and offer some advice

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39
[linked image]

 
 

(Login NLN)
Hummingbird Member 2005

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 12:37 PM 

Joni, Penny,

This is a question for Connie. It appears to me that the mandible is broken and the tongue is hanging out. The tongue will dry out and prevent the bird from eating. I doubt there is anything that can be done, even by a professional, but Connie will know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9
[linked image]

 
 

(Login ConnieSale)
Hummingbirder 2008

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 12:44 PM 

Hi Joni,

I just saw now your post and pics. Yes the lower bill is broken - splintered (diagonally) it looks like. The tongue is unable to track the entire length of the bill. That's why it "lalls". It also looks like the outer third of the tongue is dessicated - and this may slough off. There is also a crush or scrape wound, upper and lower bill, right near the jaw line on the right side - this also may be causing some mal-occlusion which is also forcing the tongue off track.

The good news is that the bill will probably grow back - slowly and with intermittant granulomas, but grow back none the less. There's enough of the bill left to re-grow and it looks like from the last picture that there is still a good blood supply to that bill.

The bad news is that she may lose the ability to nectar completely because of the tongue. It's pretty amazing that she can nectar now.

I think this bird may benefit from rehab. If someone was willing to provide special feeding accomodations (including syringe feeding) with super nutrition (Nektar Plus) possibly over a period of months to allow the bill to re-grow and to see if the remaining portion of the tongue is usable. It is possible to "splint" the bill with clear soft plastic tubing during the healing process as in the picture below. This, if tolerated by the bird, would help the tongue to track and help to correct any mal-occlusion of the upper and lower bill.

[linked image]

Of course, I must caveat all of this because the bird's general condition must be evaluated first and if her condition deteriorates (weight loss, lethargy, sepsis), then euthanasia may be the only course of action. If the bird were in my hands - I'd give rehab a try.

Of course she would have to be trapped by a rehabber and examined in-hand to make the determination as to what route to take. I can try to help you find a rehabber near you, and I'd even be happy to mentor an avian rehabber who has no experience with hummers to work with the bird.

I wish you lived closer, I'd be happy to assist you with this bird.

Connie

Connie & Wilton Sale
218 Scarlett Drive
Chesapeake, VA 23322
757-482-4796
State and Federal Permits
WildLife Response, Inc.
NWRA, IWRC
Hummingbirds and Songbirds
humnchirp@verizon.net
http://www.wildliferesponse.org/

 
 


(Login Pennytoo)
Hummingbird Moderator 2005

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 1:07 PM 

Thank you Nancy and Connie. I knew this was more for Connie but wasn't sure how soon she would check in so that is why I put edited the title with your name Nancy. Connie, I should have just sent you an email when I first saw Joni's post.

Hopefully something can be done for this poor little bird. I have a hard time even looking at the pictures. My first thought was a window strike was the cause but who knows for sure.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39
[linked image]

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 2:18 PM 

My reply will probably hit around same time as Geri's.

Thanks so much Connie, Nancy & Penny!! [linked image] I was out in yard & Geri just called to say you all had replied so I came in.

Connie,
I would like to contact anyone you could refer to me to help this bird. I have already emailed my local contact with the Audubon Society, 5 contacts at our local Jr. College (JJC) in the Veterinary Dept., Illinois State Univ's Veterinary Dept., the webmaster at IWRC (their rehabber referral link is not working so I tried the webmaster) and our Park District greenhouse has a small hummingbird fest weekend coming up that Geri found advertised & called someone who put us in contact with a rehabber but I got voicemail & left a message.

I will have my phone by me at all times today & keep the computer on & come in a check from time to time.

Thank You All!

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 

(Login ConnieSale)
Hummingbirder 2008

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 2:27 PM 

OK, Joni. I'll see if I can find someone and contact you via your personal email. If someone returns your call and needs me to advise them, please feel free to give them my contact info.

Connie

Connie & Wilton Sale
218 Scarlett Drive
Chesapeake, VA 23322
757-482-4796
State and Federal Permits
WildLife Response, Inc.
NWRA, IWRC
Hummingbirds and Songbirds
humnchirp@verizon.net
http://www.wildliferesponse.org/

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 2:27 PM 

Connie,

I was just talking with Geri about the contacts and just thought of something:

Since she appears to like these small tubes & is still drinking, could we put Nektar Plus in this tube & if so, will it hurt if the healthy hummers drink it?

Thanks much!
Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 

(Login ConnieSale)
Hummingbirder 2008

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 3:59 PM 

Joni,

Nektar Plus is a complete diet for adult hummingbirds that is used by zoos, hummerariums, and rehab facilities around the world. There are hummingbirds in facilities that have thrived for 12 years exclusively on this product.

However, Nektar Plus was never intended for use by the general public, primarily because it has high-quality hydrolyzed proteins, pollen, amino acids, vitamins, and simple sugars that can spoil quickly - especially in an outdoor setting. At room temp it stays fresh for about 12 hours. Outdoors, depending on how hot and sunny it is, maybe 6 hours MAX, then it must be discarded. It is also very expensive, not sold in small quantities (smallest size is 800g jar of powder about $50), and not widely available, there are only a couple of distributors in the US. It is made in Germany, which I think is ironic, since hummingbirds are not indigenous to Europe - only in the Americas.

I just emailed you some rehabber listings from my NWRA directory. Still checking through IWRC.

Connie

Connie & Wilton Sale
218 Scarlett Drive
Chesapeake, VA 23322
757-482-4796
State and Federal Permits
WildLife Response, Inc.
NWRA, IWRC
Hummingbirds and Songbirds
humnchirp@verizon.net
http://www.wildliferesponse.org/

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: NANCY: Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 4 2010, 10:29 PM 

Connie & Penny were a great help today, with Connie offering many different contacts for me to try. Sis & I were both on the internet trying to find whatever contacts we could on our own, also. Guess this was bad timing, being a holiday weekend, as I only heard from 1 contact this afternoon from our local Jr. College. She referred me to the Park District who gave me a phone# to another contact. I left a message there, too. On top of this one, I have emailed or left a phone message for up to 15-20 people so I hope to hear something positive as soon as possible.

In the meantime, Geri, Mom & I sat on her patio eating pizza tonight & the Hummer activity was very good. They were clearing our heads by inches. Our poor little Mama loves her main perch, a wrought iron shepherd's hook & defends her feeders (also the window tube feeder & the wally tube) that are on either side of her. A First Nature feeder is on her perch which she also defends but doesn't drink from. She will let no one near these 3 without chase. Some good observations tonight were that she was voraciously going after insects, always returning to her perch. This made us very happy. Sis said she has seen her drink from the window tube feeder so she apparently still has an appetite & is actually quite pudgy. I have never posted a video & just started to try but after about 20 seconds, I was only at 1% of 133MB so I guess this is out of the question. Upon viewing the video, I noticed she definitely opens her beak & she rubs her beak against her perch from time to time like she is trying to remove part of her dead tongue. It must drive her nuts but at least she is more occupied defending her territory enough to hopefully not worry about it too awful much.

She likes to sit on a little butterfly plant poke right in front of her main perch & here is another picture of her on it:
[linked image]

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 

(Login Colagirl88)
Hummingbirders 2010

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 12:50 AM 

A very heartfelt "Thank You" to everyone especially (Penny, Nancy, Connie and of course, Joni) for taking the time on a holiday weekend to try to help my little "Hummer" friend!! Joni has always told me what great people you all are!!! I experienced it first hand today!!! We were watching her tonight while eating pizza, and she seems to be doing well (I hope). We had a lot of hummer traffic, and she sat on her favorite butterfly perch and chased away anyone trying to get at her nectar buffet. She also flew around catching bugs, which I hope is a good sign. I've gotten really attached to her, as I see her everyday! I think she likes me looking out the window at her. I just hope we can find someone to help her before its too late. Again, Thank You!!!

Your newest member, I believe.
Geri

[linked image]

 
 


(Login Pennytoo)
Hummingbird Moderator 2005

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 6:25 AM 

I wonder if you could put a smallopen bowl of sugar water by where she purches if she would use it. i uxd small open bowls of sugar water to attract the yellow jackets away from feeders. The hummers have checked them out but usually there are dead yellow jackets floating in the bowl so they down't use it but of tje mectar os fresj she might just give it a try. I have used a first nature feeder with the bottle removed and the top of the base removed. Then I use one of the extra plastic plant hangers and clip it to the outer perch yp hang it. mine is away from the feeders in bright sun to attract the yellow jackets but it could be put close to her perch....just a thought.

Penny
Niagara Falls, NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39
[linked image]

 
 

(Login Carolmb)
Hummingbird Member 2006

Update to Geri's Post - Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 6:41 AM 

Glad to hear your little hummer is still able to defend her nectar and take in some insects. Hoping for the best outcome.

What lucky folks we are on this forum to have such available help when things go wrong. Connie's and Nancy's input has been invaluable so many times.

Carol
Milford, CT
Zone 6
[linked image]

 
 
Ken
(Login 5strings)
Hummingbirder 2010

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 9:15 AM 

My guess is that since you are watching her everyday, and that she looks very healthy and happy in the photos that it is not affecting her in anyway. I would think if she has not been able to drink because of this that she would already be gone. Do you think that the upper beak is the original length? It looks nice a full and pointed, but it looks short at the same time.

I wonder if she/he tried to make a quick get away while her beak was in a feeder. :c(

Central NJ
USDA Zone 6
:C)

 
 


(Premier Login bob2aa)
Forum Owner

Welcome Geri

September 5 2010, 9:54 AM 

[linked image] [linked image]

Glad you joined and thank you for posting!

-
Cheers,Bob

LEX,Ky.
[linked image]

 
 


(Login seafire1)
Hummingbird Member 2006

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 10:09 AM 

Joni/Geri,

You guys have your hands full but I have no doubt Joni will find help as soon as it is possible. That poor tongue just destroys me. I am so happy to see she is plump and still full of vigor.

One sister mentioned a feeder hanging on the window that is being defended? Maybe that feeder should be moved to another location away from the window. There are a few ways that beak might have been broken from what I've read here, but I don't have my feeders on the window for just this reason. I have had window strikes by hummers during chase (just once) but I would imagine if they were defending a window feeder, things could get ugly. I'm sure Joni and Geri have a handle on their situation, I just figured I'd offer what I observed. Good luck!!

Pam
Matawan,NJ 6B
[linked image]


Image hosting by TinyPic

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 10:44 AM 

Pam,
I understand your concern. The problem with removing the window tube feeder is that is the only one she appears to be able to use so I wouldn't want to remove another source of food when she appears to be limited at what she can use. Leaving a feeder open face, removing the plastic top as Penny had mentioned, sounds like another good option so we'll have to get out there & rig something up. The bees have been terrible though so, although it's a great idea, I feel she might not go near it but it's worth a try.

I received a voicemail on cell (didn't hear it while in bed) from another place over an hour away & they close early today so that one is out of the question. This timing sucks & also, due to the age/miles of my vehicle that has been acting up, I really can't go that far. I was also concerned about the timeline without her eating if I was able to catch her & also heard that I should use a butterfly net but was also concerned that her dry tongue might get caught. (I have emailed Connie for some specific details on best way to do this if someone doesn't come for her). I have 2 possibilites found very close to me & one I already left a message for that hasn't returned my call, Bill (found on-line that # goes to a pumpkin farm...[linked image]) & another was for a girl that works at a no-kill shelter but you can't leave a message & they are not open until Tues. I'm told I can't catch it but then 1 person said I fall under good samaritan law & not a problem. I also have Mom (who loves hummingbirds) telling me to let nature take it's course (which I don't like when she appears as healthy as she does. My head hurts. [linked image]. Everyone will start calling on Tues. when I'm at work & I feel like I'll get nowhere but hoping for the best. Sis says she's out there again this morning, perched in her favorite spot. I pray that Bill (15 minutes away) will come & get her.

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5


[linked image]

 
 
Ken
(Login 5strings)
Hummingbirder 2010

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 10:55 AM 

What do the other photos look like that were not good enough to post? From looking at the first two photos it looks like the piece hanging is from the outside of the beak, almost like the fibers on a branch that was snapped. If it is infact fibers I bet there was a chance that the broken beak might have been hanging from it for some time, who knows. If that was the tongue I don't think she would be around today.

Even if the tongue could not go back into the mouth all the way, that piece is way too long for that to be the reason.

Hopefully she will be fine and that fiber will fall off and the beak will grow back as mentioned above. Any chance of getting more photos and cropping them so that the beak is posted at 100%?

Central NJ
USDA Zone 6
:C)

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 5 2010, 11:26 AM 

The other photos were to blurry & I just tried cropping the better one's & they blur even more. Her upper beak appears to be normal & the bottom, broken/splintered as Connie had stated. Her "appendage" is too long to be part of her beak but definitly long enough to be her tongue. After she eats, she does not stick her tongue out like all the others so this is apparently her tongue that is hanging. The tissue up in her mouth must be alive enough but the end has died. You can tell it bothers her since she rubs her beak on her perch so she is feeling something. We will be leaving for relatives soon but I will try & get some better pix before I leave & post later tonight or tomorrow. Nice sun today for it.

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 

(Login Colagirl88)
Hummingbirders 2010

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 6 2010, 2:20 PM 

Here is a Labor Day update on my little hummer. When I first got up this morning I didn't see her, but she arrived soon after I went outside to drink my morning coffee. My window tube feeder had more in it this morning than I have seen in the past few days, which I hope is not a bad sign, though I have seen her drink today. I saw her use the "Wally" tube. She is a smart little bird. I saw her stick her beak in really far and tilt her head to the side and it bubbled. She took her beak out and raised her head as if to get the water to run down inside her throat. I was racking my brain trying to figure out how to put out a open faced feeder as Penny suggested. I went to the garage and found a new window feeder I forgot I had. It is clear plastic and the base has a roof and a opening where the square cup sits. The only red on the feeder was the plastic lid that sits on top of the square. I found some red plastic wrapping paper and cut a long narrow piece and wrapped it around the outside edge of the feeder cup. I filled the square cup with sugar water and left the top off. Hopefully she'll find this and use it. She seems to use the window tube feeder the most. I also put another "Wally" tube on the window. I am assuming that these feeders are mostly used because the distance to the sugar water is shorter than the "Nature's First" ones that I have. I don't see too many bees by these window feeders. They seem to be on the feeders that are closer to the flowers.

Penny, thanks for that open feeder suggestion. I hope that she will find this and it will help to get her more nurishment.

My next trial may be to leave the red cap off of the tube feeder vial as to leave the opening bigger.

Geri

[linked image]

 
 

(Login Yodlei44)
Bug Moderator

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 11 2010, 12:01 AM 

After many, many emails & calls to everyone even remotely close to me that was on lists Connie had so graceously sent me, no one would come out to assist me. I even still was making calls from other Sister's house (Lori) while celebrating Labor Day. With it being a holiday weekend, it was very bad timing and the only possibilities were a wildlife rehab center in Chicago (1 hour away) that called me Sat. morning but I would have to catch her & bring her there but had 1-1/2 hours to do it. Missed that. I got up early Tues. morning to go into work early so I could get home, try to catch her & get her to another place about 45 minutes from me that 3 or 4 people highly recommended. When I left for work, I ended up with flat tire. When it rains, it pours. I ended up just taking a vacation day, got the tire fixed, ate lunch & came home & sat on Geri's patio with Mom & didn't see our little bird all day. We sat from around 1 til Geri got home at 4:45 & no sight of her. Geri had said she saw her before she left for work but apparently it was her time to migrate or maybe she just gave up (which is hard to believe seeing she was fine the night before & still eating). I don't regret all the time I put in & have saved several contacts in case this situation would ever, God forbid, happen again. I just hope she happens upon another good soul who will assist her if she ends up being better off than we think or she appeared. We are sad!

Thanks again Connie & Penny for your assistance!!!

Joni (& Geri)
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

[linked image]

 
 


(Login Pennytoo)
Hummingbird Moderator 2005

Re: Update To Geri's Post- Beak Damage? (Pix)

September 11 2010, 5:45 AM 

Joni
Hopefully she will find her way to someone who will be able to help her. I know how you all must have felt not finding anyone there that could or would help.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a/6b
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39
[linked image]

 
 
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