Some of us go overboard on our plants. OK, I'll admit I have far too many plants and some choices turn out to be more useful than others.

Since last week, several Cupheas have come into good bloom. A couple of others have been flowering since spring and they are still going. Of course, most of these plants are only going to be useful for those of us in the warmer zones.

Cuphea schumannii is still going strong as is Cuphea 'David Verity', both in flower since April and both getting good attention from the only hummer present, a probable returnee Buff-bellied.

Cuphea salvadorensis, which came back from last winter's freeze, is just coming into good flower and Buffy can't leave it alone. Cuphea oreophila 'Orange Flame' is absolutely identical in appearance to Cuphea salvadorensis, giving credence to the idea that the name Cuphea oreophila is just a synonym of Cuphea salvadorensis. Buffy just can't leave these plants alone! However, this fine plant isn't going to do anyone in zone 7 any good at all. Two Cuphea oreophila [not the 'Orange Flame' cultivar] are not yet in flower but they should show some color by next week.

Cuphea affinis aequipetala is flowering very modestly, but it has had no hummer visitation. The same can be said for a small, but nicely flowering, Cuphea 'Ballistic'.

Cuphea micropetala 'Granada Orange' is in good flower right outside the office window and it got a single visit a few days ago. I know it has nectar, so there is no accounting for Buffy's taste. Nevertheless, it isn't going to be any good for you northern humfolks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

Nancy said: "Cuphea affinis aequipetala is flowering very modestly, but it has had no hummer visitation. The same can be said for a small, but nicely flowering, Cuphea 'Ballistic'."

It is interesting to hear of the performance differences of a given plant in different climates,as well as varying preferences of different hummers. C. 'Ballistic' grew large here and was regularly visited by my Anna's. For overall number of flowers, I think it beat out 'David Verity', altho that was an excellent performer, too. C. Ignea (from seed) did ok, both in performance & hummer attraction, but really played 2nd fiddle to 'D.V.' C. "Orange Flame" was a puny performer, altho it stayed in bloom a long time & the hummers seemed to feed at the few little blooms it presented. Others I tried also didn't do much here. My focus for next year will be on 'D.V.' and 'Ballistic'. I am attempting overwintering plants of both in the house as well as in the garage.

Patrick
USDA Zone 8b
Heat Zone 3
Sunset Zone 5
SeaTac, WA...one cool place

Patrick,

The Cuphea 'Ballistic' flowered very well in the spring and part of the summer, times when I don't have a lot of hummers. Additionally, I had put the plant in a large terra cotta container, and it constantly demanded more water. I did see some very modest visitation, but didn't spend a lot of time in the front where I might see hummer action. Send me an Anna's so I can see his reaction to it. At some point, I started a cutting and let the large plant go. I will have it in the ground next spring.

Cuphea ignea [the species] does not prosper in our climate and I am currently without it. The reason your Cuphea 'Orange Flame' did poorly is because it is a winter bloomer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

Patrick,

You would know that shortly after I posted my last message, Buffy came along and taste-tested a number of the Cuphea micropetala 'Granada Orange' flowers. She also hit the two Salvia microphylla 'Hot Lips' flowers nearby.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

When it comes to Cuphea I feel completely out of fashion, hardly a new feeling. There is nothing out on the porch except schumannii and David Verity. A three year old ignea seedling has been left to freeze.

If anyone knows of a place where a yellow-flowered Cuphea ignea might be available please let me know. Singing Springs used to sell one but she got out of the business. Ignea backcrosses pretty well with David Verity and it would be nice to have a Cuphea with the yellow flower color of the former and the size of the latter.

I have been on the lookout for cupheas... nearly all are blooming now, and my Anna's enjoy them all. I am told (by Strybing arboretum) that they are quite 'promiscuous', so color variations are frequently seen.

I have 2 forms of C. aequipetala - dark purple from Annie's, light purple from UCBerkeley.

2 forms of C. oreophila - darker/smaller from Annie's, larger/lighter from Strybing (or UCB??). Maybe one is C. salvadorensis?

C. nudicostata, C. nelsonii (2 forms) - these are very interesting!

C. ignea (2 forms), one which I think may be David Verity (from Strybing)

C. caeciliae, a few different color variations

C. "Mini Mouse" (Annie's) and C. pinetorum (Strybing), which to my eye look similar.

C. cyanea "Pink"

C. "Strybing Sunset"

C. lanceolata "Starfire"= probably most popular with the hummers

C. llavea "Firecracker" and "Flamenco Chacha"

C. viscossisima

C. micropetala ("candy corn" type, red + yellow)

I may have more out there, but it's raining...

I was intrigued about the yellow cuphea, Googled, and it seems that one called "Mellow Yellow" is being trialed for market. One called C. luteola also looks interesting, from Bolivia. I wish that more cupheas would be sold in the trade!! There are hundreds of different types in the wild. I still don't have C. schumannii, but one of the Strybing curators checked it out on the computer while I was there and said he would get and propagate it. Hope so!



Bay Area, CA

Nancy, these photos might clear up the SLIGHT differences between C. oreophila and C. salvadorensis. I definitely have both plants. The salvadorensis flower is larger (though can't see that from this photo), a lighter shade of orange than its 'cousin', and note the yellow petals around the edge:

http://www.gymnosperms.org/imgs/kcn2/sq/Lythraceae_Cuphea_salvadorensis_32117.html

C. oreophila (from Annie's, at any rate) is darker orange and the edge petals are also orange, as you see here:

http://www.anniesannuals.com/plt_lst/lists/general/lst.gen.asp?prodid=3271&rs_start=180&prp_let=C

I'll have to go outside and verify this (when it's not raining), but this is what I recall when I tried to 'study' the minor differences.

Annie starts most of her plants from seed (she obtains many from the local botanical gardens, I've been told), so it's possible that there is some slight variance due to hybridization.

I don't think my Anna's notice any difference.

edit- here is a side view of the salvadorensis; note again the yellow petals, which oreophila does not have:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/63329/

Bay Area, CA

Actually, Michelle, your well-informed post doesn't clear up anything. I noted [and posted] on the differences last year when both plants were in flower.

My question has to do with scientific nomenclature. On the Missouri Botanical Garden web site http://www.tropicos.org/ , under Cuphea oreophila, there is a box to click that reads 'accepted names' and Cuphea salvadorensis comes up. Then, if one goes to Cuphea salvadorensis, there is a box to click that reads 'synonyms'. One of the synonyms is Cuphea oreophila.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this seems to say that the species name Cuphea oreophila is really just a synonym of Cuphea salvadorensis. In other words, these two taxa are, in fact, the same species.

The Cuphea salvadorensis I have was a cutting obtained from someone's garden while I was doing a Christmas Bird Count. She had a Black-chinned and a Calliope using it. That was recommendation enough for me.

Last year, I purchased Cuphea oreophila from Annie's Annuals. Only later did I look them up on the MOBOT data base. They are not yet in flower, but last year, I noted the differences between the two flowers.

This spring, I got a Cuphea oreophila 'Orange Flame' from Cottage Gardens. It is flowering and placed right next to my original Cuphea salvadorensis. The flowers of those two are identical in size and coloration.

If I read the MOBOT data base correctly, it is saying that Cuphea oreophila and Cuphea salvadorensis are the same species and that Cuphea salvadorensis is the correct scientific name. My only question is why don't nursery retailers use the correct scientific names?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

This happens a lot in the field of horticulture. I usually tend to believe names given by UCBerkeley (and Strybing -- they are in cahoots with each other) since it's a world class University... but even they don't agree with Rich Dufresne (and most of the rest of the salvia community) that the plant they call S. pulchella is actually S. univerticillata.

UCB and Strybing call your (and my) cuphea oreophila, not salvadorensis. I have 2 fairly distinct populations of this plant, given the same name. One was a cutting, one was probably from seed which may thus be a hybrid (Annie's, where Cottage Gardens obtained their mother plant). UCBerkeley recently sold me a "Salvia tubifera" which is actually the "S. puberula" given to them by Dufresne decades ago. Tags obviously get mixed up. I've seen their tubifera, and I'm going to ask for a cutting as apology for the mistake.

At this point, I might just start to name plants whatever I want, haha. The various colors of cuphea caeciliae that I have from Strybing aren't named, but are quite different! I especially like the cream and pink bicolor.

Most people who buy plants probably don't really care much about the correct Latin names, but I think that those of us who grow unusual plants (especially those who sell them!) tend to get more hung up on these muddles. I know I do!

Bay Area, CA

p.s. Annie's took C. nelsonii (2 types) off of her website altogether, which is a shame, as it's a very interesting flower. I was annoyed because I had just bought it, and wanted to recheck what she had written! Normally she leaves plant info on her site, even if they are no longer for sale. Cuphea nudicostata is similar to nelsonii, but the 'ears' are huge and more orange. Very little about it on the web.

Michelle,

It might be true that Strybing and University of California - Berkeley are tops in plant systematics, but the Missouri Botanical Garden is also very well-known. In fact, the leading Cuphea authority, Shirley Graham, is at the Missouri Botanical Garden, so I tend to accept MOBOT.

Yes, there are often mistakes in horticulture. For Salvia systematics, I usually ask Richard first, but for identification of Salvia subrotunda, I had to seek help from Christian Froissart in Paris. Sometimes, Robin Middleton in England is very helpful as well. Richard and Robin identified Salvia longistyla for me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9


PS: At some point, Annie's had Cuphea nelsonii as Cuphea nelsonii and then as Cuphea 'Red Wine'. That was confusing, but because the plant succumbed to our hot, humid summer, I guess I don't really need to know.

Then, there are Cuphea microphylla and Cuphea melvilla [sometimes called C speciosa]. All of the C melvilla I have seen for sale is really C microphylla. A friend had a real C melvilla, identified by the New York Botanical Garden, but she lost it to Hurricane Katrina and she has not been back to Brazil to collect any more.

Hi Nancy,

Yes, but if you read every plant description on Robin's site [I probably have ], you will note that there is a lot of disagreement among botanists as to the names of plants. I think there are a lot of egos at stake...

UCB only grows plants which were collected in the wild, unlike Strybing which is a bit less picky. A lot of sharing goes on between all of the Univ. botanical gardens.

It's likely that oreophila and salvadorensis are indeed synonyms, with slight variation due to hybridization. As I said, cupheas are known to hybridize easily. C. David Verity (originally found in a SoCal garden) is thought to be a hybrid of ignea and micropetala. BTW, some folks call micropetala "melvilla"... I nearly got caught in the trap of buying both.

Bay Area, CA

I envy you. I can't grow the cuphea here. I had a beautiful, bushy Cuphea llavea and some sort of beetles literally devoured it in a matter of a week. I managed to save it (temporarily) by spraying it with a pesticide ... which TOTALLY goes against my nature as I am a chemical-free gardener and it recovered. But unfortunately, the beetles came back a month later and finished it off. I won't waste my money on another one. Plants either do well here or not. I will try most plants once, if they don't work out, then I at least gave them a chance but I won't bother to try again. Too many other plants that will grow nicely in my garden.

~Becky~

I rarely give up after one try. Usually, I give a plant three tries before giving up, especially if it was the fault of an outside agent [beetles] rather than a flaw with the plant itself.

Several years ago, I had an infestation of a small black beetle. I think they were called 'flea beetles'. Like you, I don't like to use any pesticides. The beetles were mostly concentrated on an unknown Cuphea that was given to me as 'Pink Flamingo'. It looked a lot like Cuphea laevis Starbrite'. Some of the beetles got on other Cupheas, but they didn't seem to bother Salvias or other genera. I used Safer Insecticidal Soap [available at Ace Hardware stores here] on the bugs and got some measure of success, but they kept coming back.

Finally, I waited until trash day, loaded the plant in its 3-gallon pot into a large trash bag and put it on the street to be hauled off. Since then, I have seen the bugs only occasionally and hit them with the Safer Soap whenever I find them.

I grow quite a few different Cuphea species and cultivars. Most are pretty hardy and trouble-free. There are some that seem not to like the climate here. Those are the ones with tiny flowers like Cuphea cyanea, and its many incarnations. Cuphea ignea does alright for a couple of years though it isn't a hummer favorite here. Cuphea llavea grows well, but it gets little hummer attention despite a very high nectar value. My current plant is about 3 years old and it survived last winter's freeze outdoors under a bench in the greenhouse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

I have a scrawny C. 'Little Mice' (which I think is the same as 'Batface') sitting beside the window next to me...I see a number of aphids on it, so it's headed outside for a spray of homemade insecticide - the rubbing alcohol, dish soap, cooking oil & water mixture.

Patrick
USDA Zone 8b
Heat Zone 3
Sunset Zone 5
SeaTac, WA...one cool place

michelle mentioned not being able to find Annie's description of C. nelsonni. i copied it last year. it's also still available in the Way Back Machine (web.archive.org).

Cuphea nelsonii

A rare shrub Cuphea with fresh green foliage and 1" bright scarlet "bunny-ear" flowers produced all Summer. Very easy - bugs don't bother it - it likes half day sun the best and regular water, especially if you put it in a container. 2 ˝/2' x 2'

Perennial

cheers,

nancy

Cuphea pinetorum



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Bay Area, CA

The Anna's has made its vote. What can be told about this Cuphea, it is new to me.

Cupheas david verity and micropetala [new plants] are both growing pretty fast now and DV is even starting to flower but both appear super healthy, its just my eagerness to see them flower. Schumannii is still small and growing at a slow rate but Im guessing it will finally get there by august.

Steve
Martinsville, In
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35

I root pruned my DV pretty hard and replaced the soil. It is looking much better now and even putting on some new growth. I am hoping it will still recover enough to bloom some this year.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Has anyone heard about this place? They have a few hard to find cupheas, but I cannot find anything about the nursery.

http://eclecticplants.ecrater.com/search.php?keywords=cuphea&x=0&y=0

Priya
Zone 7, Maryland

I haven't heard of them.

Schumannii seems to be one of those plants where size really counts. The oldest and largest of the transplants are well ahead of those that were planted with just a few low leaves. The latter still aren't bloom.

Priya,

I had not heard of them, but several people sent me a link to this site and they do have some very, very nice species, especially Cupheas. They are very, very tempting. However, the shipping charges are out of this world. I also noted that unrooted cuttings were offered. Isn't that kind of like buying a box full of smoke?

Overall, I have been looking hard at my Cuphea collection. Some, including the fairly new to me Cuphea schumannii, are standards in many hummer gardens. However, in the teeth of our debilitating summer heat, some Cupheas just melt.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

I ran across their site about a year or so ago and even had it saved but lost the info when I lost my old pc. They do sell on ebay and are listed as a top seller but they don't have any listings right now. They are in Calif and I think a mom and pop hobby turned business where they sell their extras.

http://eclecticplants.ecrater.com/about.php

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Thanks, Nancy and Penny.
I did see that they ship cuttings with no guarantee, so I am reluctant to try that. The shipping charges also seem steep, though the pictures of the plants look OK. I will keep them in mind, but probably won't order anything this year. I hope some place like Bustani starts offering these cupheas.

Priya
Zone 7, Maryland

Yes I forgot to mention that shipping was out of site. I did read a few of the reviews on Ebay and people seemed very happy but personally I would try someone else who had more realistinc shipping charges.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

I don't know, if I could find another Cuphea that was as good as David Verity or schumanni it would be worth the cost. Especially if it was a buy once type plant that propagates as easily as the two above. What is $20.00 if you get years of use and hundreds of plants from the purchase?

We are like drug addicts, oh oh there's a plant no one has tried. How much you say? I need it, gotta have it!!

The s&h is $8.95. That's pretty basic from what I've paid. I see they are unrooted, maybe because they are so easy to root? If they r, than y isn't he rooting them first???? Hmmm, someone should ask him a question.....

I have about a dozen. Do we REALLY NEED another cuphea?

Pam
Matawan,NJ 6B

Ward, as far as I can tell, C. pinetorum is the same as "Minnie Mouse" from Annie's. I got mine from Strybing Arboretum, and I know that she gets many of her plants from them.

http://www.anniesannuals.com/plt_lst/lists/search/lst.srch.asp?prodid=1855&srch_term=cuphea

As for the eclecticplants link, yes, I have ordered from them many times. She lives in my area and has personally delivered plants and charged me for gas, which was far cheaper than her shipping costs. I will say that she does pack VERY well, and that must take some time. Her prices have gone up quite a bit over the last couple of years... I don't order from her nearly as much now, as I find most of this stuff for sale at the local arboreta, for significantly less. btw, her seeds link is a good one, and cheaper:http://taste.ecrater.com/

I have ordered cuttings from her, with mixed success. I think I tried at the wrong time of the year.

I have some grand [make that *hare-brained*, LOL] ideas of doing just what she does [plant propagation hobby turned into a business]... but I have to move to the one acre place first.



Bay Area, CA

Pam, the voice of reason - go figure. I do know what you mean. This year, and really for the past several years, the garden has been filled with tried and true stuff. Other than Kate's gift of oxyphora there is not one new hummingbird plant out there. It makes for a garden that isn't of much use to forum discussions but the hummingbirds don't complain.

Pam,
The $8.95 shipping charge at Eclectic Plants is for the unrooted cuttings. The shipping charge for rooted 3.5 or 4 inch pots is $13.95. I think all the trial sized pots ship for $8.95

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Nancy, I bought a cigar plant this past spring and it did great, but lately it is looking sick. What am I doing wrong? I have a feeling it is suffering from heat stress like the rest of us down here in South Louisiana.

Linda
Until Nancy replies, I would say to make sure that it isn't drying out. Cupheas drink lots of water. Also since you are in S. La. maybe giving it a bit of shade during the hottest part of the day. If it is in ground see if you can position something in front of or over for a while. If it is in a pot try moving to a little less intense sunline for a while. The more sun the more water it will need. I have place a lawn chair over mine in years when we have had very hot dry weather just for a while in the late afternoon when it got really hot.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Linda,

Good to see you posting again. As Penny noted, Cupheas are water hogs. For that reason, some do not do especially well in containers, especially if the containers are not large enough to accommodate the ever-growing root system. Cupheas like to make roots and the larger the root system, the more water is guzzled.

Some of the smaller-flowered Cupheas don't like out hot, humid summers - and it has been blazing hot. Our best bets are generally, Cuphea 'David Verity', Cuphea micropetala, and Cuphea schumannii. Cuphea cyanea 'Caribbean Sunset' is struggling and it may not survive the summer. Cuphea ignea never lasts long here. What species is your plant?

Where there is a will, there is a way. However, you have to work with the plant's natural desires. Believe me, I have tortured a lot of plants, trying to make them do my bidding. It seldom works.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

Dear Nancy,

Thank you for your lovely and informative e-mail which I will respond soon.

Cuphea cyanea and C. caeciliae are not good in our hot and humid summer. The best for me are. C ignea, C. schumannii C. aequipetala, C. micropetala and C. x purpurea. C. llavea survives but it hardly ever flowers here.

I have noticed that many new beautiful hybrids are becoming available in the USA. Good News!

I have grown Cuphea lanceolata. This is sometimes listed as C. viscossissima but I think C. viscossisima has smaller flowers and is even more sticky than C. lanceolata. Would like to know your opinion about these two species.

The best hummingbird species by far is C. micropetala follow by C. lanceolata BUT, to be honest, our hummingbirds prefer salvias rather than cupheas.

Do you have seeds of C. oreophila/salvadorensis?

I have spare seeds of Salvia heerii for you.

Best Wishes! and many many thanks!

Rolando.

I could have started another thread with this but what the hey. Concerning my new plant cuphea micropetala and replaced cuphea david verity. Both were very small when I recieved them but micropetala took off really fast first and was way ahead of dv but now all of a sudden it seems DV has exploded and surpassed CM with some light flowering and good growth.

C. Micropetala


C. David Verity-- as you can see it is sitting in water with all the overnight and morning rain-storms





Steve
Martinsville, In
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35

Indy Steve commented: "I could have started another thread with this but what the hey. Concerning my new plant cuphea micropetala and replaced cuphea david verity. Both were very small when I recieved them but micropetala took off really fast first and was way ahead of dv but now all of a sudden it seems DV has exploded and surpassed CM with some light flowering and good growth."

NLN: Steve, I note that your Cuphea micropetala is not flowering anymore. My Cuphea micropetala 'Granada Orange' still is putting out a few flowers though it seems to be concentrating its energy into growth. The 'regular' Cuphea micropetala has finished and it is growing tall. Cuphea 'David Verity' is growing and flowering very well.

Rolando said: "Cuphea cyanea and C. caeciliae are not good in our hot and humid summer. The best for me are. C ignea, C. schumannii C. aequipetala, C. micropetala and C. x purpurea. C. llavea survives but it hardly ever flowers here.

I have noticed that many new beautiful hybrids are becoming available in the USA. Good News!

I have grown Cuphea lanceolata. This is sometimes listed as C. viscossissima but I think C. viscossisima has smaller flowers and is even more sticky than C. lanceolata. Would like to know your opinion about these two species."

The best hummingbird species by far is C. micropetala follow by C. lanceolata BUT, to be honest, our hummingbirds prefer salvias rather than cupheas."

NLN: Rolando, I like to offer as many choices as possible in my small yard. Salvias have long been workhorses here, but the various Cuphea species are a close second.

Cuphea 'David Verity' is the only hybrid I regularly grow and I am rather put off by all the silly names that 'clever' horticulturists give them. It was the first Cuphea I had, given to me by a local nurseryman, who didn't know its identity. It took a while to find out that it was a hybrid of C ignea, which doesn't prosper in our climate, and C micropetala, which was my second Cuphea acquisition.

For some unknown reason, C llavea grows and flowers well here, but it gets very little hummingbird attention despite having a very high nectar value. One plant lived happily in a hanging basket, but I moved it to a 15-inch terra cotta pot this spring. It is right next to a C schumannii so we will see if it gets more respect.

You are correct about C micropetala being a top choice, except that it flowers only seasonally here while C 'David Verity' blooms nearly year round, if we do not have a freeze.

C lanceolata is one I would like to try, but I haven't seen any plants available. C caeciliae is one I want to try, even knowing you have trouble with it. I may get reckless and order some seeds though I am almost overwhelmed with other plant projects.

A few years ago, I had a fairly large C ignea that got steady usage from the wintering hummers, but eventually, it croaked and was not replaced. I have seen it well-used by some of the very small hummingbird species in Costa Rica and Ecuador. One day, I will get another.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

Nancy

Possibly you misunderstood me my C . Micropetala has not flowered yet.

Steve
Martinsville, In
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35

OK, I'm way behind on here & getting overwhelmed lately but here goes.....

My 'David Verity' is going strong & schumannii healthy & starting to throw the flowers. This was taken almost 2 weeks ago & schumannii now is really blooming & the Japanese Beetles have found it (Thanks guys & gals for the jinx....didn't have aphids on honeysuckle before nor the beetles on my schumannii & this year both have showed up).... Here's the pix from 6/26:



and asked what this was in another thread (showing the full plant) & guess I found out, but not sure which variety???



Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

Hi Joni, I said Cuphea salvadorensis when you posted asking for an ID, and I'm sticking with that answer, upon seeing this latest photo.

Post another photo when the flower is a bit larger. Include a shot which is looking straight into the bloom.

Bay Area, CA

Maybe I'm losing it, Michelle, but don't think I've mentioned this one in another thread except for my June 24 "Some of My Over-Winter's" thread on page 4 (at present). I showed the full plant before it started blooming & only see Pam's entry. That bloom was full size & I remember them being very tiny & figured Hummers wouldn't use it. I've never had salvadorensis.

I checked again before finishing this & found the thread "Cuphea-I believe?" on June 15. That is a different plant from this one. I also vaguely remember I might have bought one locally called 'Caribbean' something or other but thought that was a couple of years ago...similar to ignea 'Dynamite' but lighter in color. Bet that's it. God, I need to keep better records.

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

Here's another pix. The blooms did get bigger & it's not that 'Carribean' one since it was more like the very small cigars of 'Dynamite' & these are bigger...about the same as DV:


I'm not the best with editing pix but I made a copy of the original & blew it up but when I save it, it saves as the original. Same with multiple editing programs. Any idea how I do this you photographers out there?

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

Joni,

your photo looks like a spitting image of Cuphea salvadorensis (orange batface cuphea) at Almost Eden:

https://almostedenplants.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1080
https://almostedenplants.com/shopping/images/full/Cuphea%20orange%20batface.jpg

i've never tried it because i assumed it was winter blooming even though their catalog description says "summer to fall."

cheers,

nancy

Joni,

I agree that your 'mystery' Cuphea is Cuphea salvadorensis. You say you've never had that species, but did you get Cuphea oreophila 'Orange Flame' from Cottage Gardens?

According to the Missouri Botanical Garden data base, the name Cuphea oreophila is a synonym of Cuphea salvadorensis. In the last couple of years, I acquired Cuphea oreophila 'Orange Flame' from Cottage Gardens and Cuphea oreophila from Annie's Annuals. The 'Orange Flame' is identical in appearance to the Cuphea salvadorensis that I had been growing for several years while the Cuphea oreophila from Annie's is somewhat different. The corolla is a slightly different color and the tube is shorter on the ones from Annie's.

In general, these plants flower best in winter, but this year, I saw flowering sporadically through the spring and into the summer from all of those cultivars. Currently, the only plant that is showing any color is the Cuphea salvadorensis that I acquired as a cutting from an acquaintance. It only has a few flowers at this time.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9

Yep, Nancy. It's 'Orange Flame'. Actually saw some Hummer use tonight but she was too quick & couldn't get a picture.

Joni
Elwood, IL
Zone 5

Plant Delights Nursery has a new addition: Cuphea glutinosa. Have any of my fellow cuphea addicts heard of/ tried this one? I am tempted. It's apparently not the same as C. hyssopifolia, though it looks similar.

http://www.plantdelights.com/Cuphea-glutinosa-Mexican-Heather/productinfo/1489/

Bay Area, CA

This one peaked my interest too (zone 7), although I wonder if it is useful for hummingbirds or butterflies. The other holdback is that where I could use it most deer are a problem, and my experience with other Cuphea is they are not deer proof.

Michelle,

Cuphea glutinosa grows wild in Northern Argentina and, in my opinion, it is not used by hummingbirds, at least here. It is not as attractive as C. hyssopifolia.

I am currently growing Cuphea aequipetala, which is a nice plant for the border but ignored by hummingbirds. For me the best hummingbird Cuphea is C. micropetala.

Rolando.

Rolando,

Cuphea aequipetala is getting moderate hummer usage here. Mine is growing in a large pot that I hang from the deck rail.

Cuphea glutinosa doesn't appear to have a lot of good hummer attributes, so I am not especially tempted.

Down here, we have not yet had a significant frost, so there are many plants still flowering. Cuphea micropetala, Cuphea schumannii, and Cuphea 'David Verity' are all still in flower and they are getting some usage by the winter residents.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9
http://www.casacolibri.net/

The cuphea schumannii I had last year for some reason never really excelled didnt flower well and didnt get very big. I was hoping to overwinter it in my garage and see how it does. I wasnt even able to get a good cutting from it. I will have to try again this year.

The cupheas in my garage now are doing well especially the micropetala it seems quite aggressive compared to others. Ok it is heated out there and I keep in the 40s except for when it got really cold here the temp went down to 34 but no frost out there so no problem.

Also last year was the first year for the C. micropetala but the way its doing in my garage now I truly expect an outstanding year for it , Im wondering if the pot is big enough., its a 15" pot.

A small, seed-grown Cuphea viscosissima came into flower last week. The flowers are not large, but I like the intense blackish purple coloring. Looked for nectar this morning and could not find any. I still look forward to seeing hummers use or ignore this plant.

The plant I have been growing as Cuphea aequipetala is similar, but the flowers are smaller and slightly less intensely blackish purple. When in flower, this plant gets moderate usage. Recently, I cut it back, started a number of cuttings [very easy], and have been distributing new plants to friends.

Recently, I purchased 2 plants labelled Cuphea aequipetala from Glass House Works. One plant had a couple of buds and those flowers are quite different from the above mentioned plant. It is more pink, with smaller 'ears'. That plant appears to be croaking though. The other one is hanging on. I hope I can keep it going for a while.

Cuphea salvadorensis, which bloomed rather late, got good usage from northbound migrants in late March and April. It is still flowering modestly.

Cuphea micropetala has ceased flowering for the season. It is quite large, maybe 5 feet, but I do not intend to cut it back.

Cuphea 'David Verity' passed 5 feet in height and spread, so it was cut back. A neighbor's is still going strong.

Cuphea schumannii never stopped flowering since last year. Most stems are 5-6 feet long with no leaves for the first 3 feet. Some seedlings have grown up around it, largest being 18 inches. None of those are flowering.

Cuphea llavea is in full flower in a large terra cotta pot in front of the Cuphea schumannii. Typically, it gets little to no usage, and there are no hummers here at present, but it is a beautiful, care-free plant.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9b
http://www.casacolibri.net/

Boy I was just pleased this morning to finally see a flower forming on one of the wintered-in-the-ground David Verities. I suspect it won't be long before the whole row follows suit. I don't remember waiting so long for DV to bloom in the past but don't remember lots of things. Both schummanii planted in May were bulldozed by a wood chuck and are back the square one. Just last weekend the reserve plant went in so maybe there will be flowers by mid July. Schummanii has always received lots of attention from hummingbirds and other two-legged garden visitors of the purportedly human genotype.

All of my DV rooted cuttings have branched and started blooming within the past week. The parent plant in a pot that was overwintered hasn't produced any blooms as of yet. C. schumannii is very healthy but I don't think it has grown at all since it was planted when I planted out the DV. C. schumannii just may not be the best plant for this area. I will leave it for the time being but if I don't see any growth soon it is coming out.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

My main problem with Schumannii is whether it is 2 Ms or 2 Ns.

Ward said: "My main problem with Schumannii is whether it is 2 Ms or 2 Ns."

NLN: 1 'm', 2 'n' [the German way], don't capitalize the 's'.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9b
http://www.casacolibri.net/

Nan and Ward
Y'all have had be going on the M's and N's. I bet I read Ward
s [pst 5 times trying to figure out what he meant and I read Nan's post through twice before the fog (or was it the heat) lifted from my brain to realize what y'all were referring to.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Penny,

The spouse says that I am a frustrated schoolmarm.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9b
http://www.casacolibri.net/

LOL Nan!
That is a lot better than what my spouse says about me. Mine says that I am the original Edith Bunker but I don't mind b/c simple things made her happy.

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Grandma was a school marm in a two room schoolhouse and my roommate the last year of her life. "Wardie, study hard so you don't end up in the ignoramous parade!" That is why 2 Ns or 1 is no small thing. I have told this story 100 ways in 50 years - bless her heart.

Penny, Ward -

The tale Nancy's husband tells about her being a frustrated school marm reminds me of another story he likes to tell about her. They met in college while he was in the process of leaving to enter Officer Candidate School in the navy, so for most of their engagement, they were separated by a good distance, and in those expensive-long-distance, pre-internet days, they naturally relied on letters to stay in touch.

Skip tells people that Nancy used to blue-pencil his love letters and send them back to him. That is not true, however, She did not send them back.



Kevin Morgan
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Kevin,
that's priceless and I can actually imagine Nan duing the blue pencil thing ! More times than not someone could have a field day with some of my posts. Pam used to but she has been overwhelmed trying to sell her home this year

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

My problem with schumannii spelling at first was whether it was sh or sch I spelled it both ways for a while.

As for my DV cuttings all are doing well and flowering and I mean I took several of cuttings from cuttings. You just gotta love that plant.

Steve
Martinsville, In
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35

Spelling has always been a moral delemma for me - telling right (or is that write) from wrong. Usually I see the wrong but have no clue what the right is.

Two days ago one returning David Verity had its first bloom and this morning 9 of them did.

Well my 4 yrs. old potted DV started to bloom today. The new plants from my cuttings were about 2 weeks ahead planted in nice fresh loose soil with worm castings

Penny
NY
USDA hardiness zone 6a
Heat zone 4
Sunset zone 39

Ward,

I try to control myself, but am not always successful. You seemed to be asking for guidance.

In my checkered 'career', if you can call it that, I have worked as an editor many times. Every writer, myself included, needs an editor or two. My 2 daughters have 3 degrees in English between them and every paper was proofread by yours truly. It is a blessing . . . and a curse.

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Nancy L Newfield
Casa Colibrí
Metairie, Louisiana USA
USDA Zone 9b
http://www.casacolibri.net/

I know what you mean. It used to appall when I would find that some 15 page column I'd written was published as is with all my mistakes carefully preserved. None of us can see our own work very well, or at least few of us can. The older I get the more I rely on others to set me straight when I mess up. Where once I was embarrassed now I'm mostly grateful.

Years ago a English speaking Canadian friend told this story. He was trying to learn French from his French speaking friends. He thought he was doing OK until he spoke to strangers who felt obliged to put him right in a dozen crushing ways. When he asked his friends why they had let him get it so wrong their answer was: "because you sounded so cute."

In other words, correct away!