Isn't Amistad a cross of Salvia guaranitica and some other species of salvia?
Just for comparison, here is a photo I took of my Black and Blue this morning. The leaves are lighter color on B & B. And the flowers are totally different in color. B & B has deep blue blooms whereas Amistad has deep purple flowers. Both seem to have those dark calyx? The leaf shape is very similar on both plants from what I can tell.
Amistad isn't a tuberose/rhizomes plant either? Did I read that correctly from another thread by Rolando?
This message has been edited by beckygardener on May 5, 2013 9:55 AM This message has been edited by beckygardener on May 5, 2013 9:54 AM This message has been edited by beckygardener on May 5, 2013 9:52 AM
(I posted not signed in, so this will have a repeat post that hopefully Bob can delete the unknow author one! Hint, hint!)
An unsolved mystery! Love it!
I took a photo of B & B (left) and Amistad (right) leaves:
Also Amistad (left), Lavender lace (middle), and Hidalgo (right):
I rubbed each of the leaves and then smelled them. Amistad has a fruity scent to me. I don't have pineapple sage for a scent comparison. B & B smells like cat urine to me! LOL! And the others had light scents, but not fruity. I didn't compare with the rest of my salvias. Nothing looked even remotely close. So ... to me, Amistad does not seem to have any of the B & B guaranitica salvia traits. I know there are many other guaranitica species/cultivars out there that might better resemble Amistad!
On the SouthernLiving tag that Kermit sent, it does say:
Dark purple flowers with nearly black calyx bloom constantly from early Spring until Frost. Amistad is more compact and has a fuller habit than other guaranitica types. Flowers are a magnet for butterflies and hummingbirds.
I wonder what it means by "fuller habit"?
My B & B is a very dense and wide plant, which I consider a full habit.
Of course in Argentina, there are so many species and hybrids, the likelihood of having something here available to really compare it to is probably not likely.
This message has been edited by beckygardener on May 5, 2013 12:07 PM
Mine has four racemes? (is that the word?) on it, and the biggest should be opening in a few days. So far, this is proving to be a very easy plant to grow, growing rapidly and looking totally happy - YAY!
The leaves are more angular than S. guaranitica, so I'd guess the other parent is a red salvia with triangular leaves.
One of mine opened yesterday - curious to see what it will look like when it is in full growth. There are now 5 cuttings under lights. The older ones have begun to grow but I am not seeing roots yet. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to go from fresh cutting to monster. I should have given them bottom heat to move things along.
I stress again that the early fault/issue for amistad is broken flower stems. Even though before the storm hit today I moved the plants under cover made no difference another broken flower stem, seems the slightest breeze will do it. So I say is be ready for it and I doubt it is just me. Early on I dont know the answer. Unless you can grow them in a tight cluster , in a pot doesnt seem to be a good way for me.,,,,,,,,,, stressssssssed!
That is an important observation about Amistad. All of mine will live in containers. I bought some peony guards from Song Sparrow Farm, which look like squat tomato cages. I plan to put one around salvia darcyi, which is also prone to breakage. Perhaps I should do the same with Amistad.
Mine have just been sitting without blooming. I hope the warmer weather spurs them into action.
I agree and you most likely remember me referring to my salvia darcyi breakage. I had two of the larger stems break. The rest of the plant is fairly small and I put a small cage around it on windy days.
I posted a couple of photos of amistad today before the breakage on my "mesa purple" post.
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35
This message has been edited by Stevenindy on May 9, 2013 8:09 PM
I've only had breakage from the older plant, and one of the broken stems seems to be rooting. The other 5 are here and there around the yard. All 6 plants are in containers and we have had significant winds - enough to rip a 40+ pound limb from a neighbor's Bald Cypress. Had some other breakage as well. 2 branches came off the Cuphea caeciliae, both of which are now rooting.
Thanks for the heads up about the Amistad breakage, Steve. We've heard growers raving about this plant for a couple years. It's odd the topic of brittleness has never come up until now. This could be a problem for me because the one I just planted in the ground is more exposed than my other guaraniticas. It's fairly well protected from late season strong north/northwest wind, but any strong wind from the west or southwest, like we can easily get from severe storms, will be a problem.
The blooms on this plant really do look great. It's a nice vibrant purple. I hope to be able to see a big, dense plant loaded with blooms later in the season.
We've grown this variety now for over a year. Young, fast growing plants are a bit brittle - but no more so than greggii or blepharophylla or many, many others. Once they have a bit of size they are no more and no less subject to breakage than any other.
Flowers by the Sea
On the Pacific Coast, USDA Zones 8 & 9
The wind is howling today and my plants are getting whipped around. The Amistad is theoretically sheltered from north wind, but it's really swirling inside my fenced-in backyard so the protection isn't helping much.
The wind can do more damage than the cold. Ive lost a few plants and trees (Japanese maples) to wind damage. Even though I covered my evergreens out front, two of them have wind burn at the very tops. I constant battle.
Very nice, Steve. My Amistad has six vibrant blooms today. The photos don't really do it justice.
Regarding the wind today, I already have a cage around my Amistad to keep critters away from it and I realized I can simply wrap a sheet around the cage to keep the wind out. Now my plant is barely moving despite the strong wind. For the next two nights of cold all I have to do now is pull the sheet over the top and it's ready to go.
That's good to know, so thanks again. Our plants arrived with buds, so they should be blooming soon (although they are still inside due to chilly temperatures.) We always have trouble with Salvia 'Purple Majesty' breaking off in the wind.
It does seem strange alright but Im doing nothing special. But we have had a lot of rain lately, spark an idea! But the crazier thing is it has been cold here the last couple of nights it the 40s and yet I left them outside. But with temps dropping into the mid 30s tonight and tomorrow they will be in the garage. But some of the others I may just throw a covering over them
Today I was gone for about 1 1/2 hrs and its a good thing I took the updated photos of Amistad because,,,, you guessed it that stem was broke. Because this was the entire stem with leaves I Have something to try and root, we shall see.
I've been growing Amistad for about 6 weeks now, and agree with what's been said so far. I also have been growing S. guaranitica Santa Maria, and it seems to have leaves very similar in size and shape to Amistad. To get the branching density, I wonder if the other parent could be S. gesneriflora mountain form?
I also have a small plant of Cosquin growing, and would love to trial other new forms. I'd love to compare Blue Ensign with Blue Enigma - I think they might really be the same plant.
This plant comes from seed provided by Rolando Uria. Both Tony Avent and I started it, though I lost my seedlings. I started cuttings from his stock, and have some small ones and three large stock plants. It wasn't that impressive, though Rolando rated it the highest. Both Tony and I are giving it a second chance.
The thread quotes a researcher in Argentina and gives an image of those he studied:
For us, the plant has an open structure, with smaller flowers. Perhaps it takes a few years to fill in.
S. guaranitica v. purpurea in Tony's garden was open in structure and sparse as well, and all forms were variable. Both S. cyanicalyx and S. cardiophylla grew rapidly and became huge in contrast.
I am interested in getting these trialled in the southeastern US, since my environment does not do as well with many Salvias. Those new forms that are winners here generally do very well in arid environments, but can suffer when they are grown up north. Conversely, those adapted to colder climates can do poorly here. Usually I have bigger problems with hot, humid nights, which cause internodes to be lengthened and colors to be washed out.
It would be very nice to develop a guaranitica that would be hardy in USDA zone 5
I have a second flower spike blooming now with a third getting close. One thing I've noticed is these spikes are very dense with calyxes and put out many blooms each day. This plant is going to be awesome in September. I have a couple bright yellow lantanas next to the Amistad and it should be a real eye-popping combo.
I am curious how it will be later in the season. The side shoots start to develop flower spikes after just a couple sets of leaves. I still have one in its original pot that I plan to take to a friend and it is now way ahead of the one which was planted several weeks ago. The reason may be the lack of rain. It is a very dry spring here.
Indy Steve (Login Stevenindy) Hummingbird lover 2007
Re: Amistad first open blooms!
May 17 2013, 3:11 PM
Well its certainly not a dry spring here , another strong rain and wind storm moved thru here the last 20min. I dont mind the rain, its the wind which the plants take a beating and some laying down.
I still have my amistad in their large 3gal pots not sure if I will plant them. Im sure they will put on a good show.
Just watched a male hummer go from my major wheeler[which has a lot of open bloom now]to mesa purple , lady in red, vista red, coral nymph and salvia oxyphora then to the feeder.
Heat zone 6
Sunset zone 35
This message has been edited by Stevenindy on May 17, 2013 3:16 PM
Since you mentioned it I just took a closer look at mine and I see 5-6 flower spikes on mine most are small but you can see what is to come, especially the way this plant wants to load up with blooms on each one. Just a matter of time.
I potted mine up into a gallon pot after receiving it from Kermit. I've been really busy this week and hadn't paid much attention to it until today after work and I noticed it has produced 3 bloom spikes. I am looking forward to seeing what the blooms look like. It is certainly an enthusiastic growing plant! My Scarlet Spires is also doing great! I have a couple nearly-bare garden beds just waiting for some plants.
Im not sure how much water this holds, but I have both my amistad plants in pots. One gets only early morning sun and has 10 new flower spikes, the other one has 5-6 new spikes and it is in almost full day sun. Im not sure at this point if that only reflects that one plant is more mature than the other or otherwise.
Last night we had our first severe storm of the year with wind gusts between 60 and 70 mph. It was also coming from the southwest, which meant my Amistad was vulnerable. I already have a cage around it to keep critters out so I wrapped the cage with a towel as I did on a strong wind day a week ago. The plant is just fine this morning so it worked. I put the potted Amistad in the garage with all the other pots.
Its fairly breezy here today but its indicated we could get stronger storms late today. Of the potted plants I have certain ones are more prone to the wind damage so I wont have to move all plants under cover or in the garage provided I get some warning before hand.
This message has been edited by SteveWnindy on May 20, 2013 12:15 PM
Glad to hear your Amistad were not damaged in the storm. Our storms here were not that severe and did not produce such damage like in areas further south.
Our two Amistad are planted in the ground in full sun. Both are doing well and have flower spikes not yet open, but close. I did notice that one plant seemed larger and further along when we received our order from Kermit. We eagerly await the first bloom.
I'm into the deadheading stage now--and seeing the first cuttings taking root and starting to send out little blooms. One of the most impressive things about Amistad is how quickly it blooms. It is definitely puts out a lot of flowers early and then just keeps going.
My plants are perhaps a foot-and-a-half tall with flower spikes another ten inches or so higher than that. I'm wondering if the plants will grow much taller or larger and if Kermit or any of you do much deadheading. Hopefully things will slow down here for me and I will be able to take some pictures.
Since this one doesn't seem to set any viable seed, deadheading is a cosmetic improvement and allows for more flowers because of the fresh new growth - but even ignored it just blooms on. I'll post a picture later today of one that has gone unpruned for over a year, to give an idea.
Flowers by the Sea
On the Pacific Coast, USDA Zones 8 & 9
Here is a picture of an Amistad planted out last July. The plants being sold then in California were sprayed with a plant growth regulator, which more or less kept them from growing at all for the first 90 days. And then we had an unusually harsh winter, with 3 inches of dime-size hail in one hour Christmas time. So this is a survivor. Note it is blooming now! Not pretty, but just think what it has been through! No pruning - other plants that are more demanding have been getting my attention.
Oh, it's about 3 1/2 feet tall.
Flowers by the Sea
On the Pacific Coast, USDA Zones 8 & 9
Thanks for posting that photo of the nice big plant .
After the wind did its work on my flower spikes , now I have a new first bloom on my 12 new flower spikes. Cant wait to see what it will look like if all spikes go into bloom at the same time or whenever they do.
Of the 3 cuttings that broke in the wind so far salvia darcyi and cerro potosi both rooted with a two week period or less and are standing on their own but amistad still requires humidity even after two weeks , still under cover. I was surprised as I thought amistad would really jump first , the quickest of the three was cerro potosi.
Beautiful pictures everyone! This is on my want list but I can't add it yet. (Yesss, we wants the preciousss!) Moving in a month, need to reduce rather than increase the number of plants. I'm following this thread with the hope that next year I can have an Amistad, with more information on its needs and care.
I put cuttings of Amistad in pots about two weeks ago and they are now throwing out blooms! Never seen a plant root so quickly. I am in Central Florida and we are hot and humid, so that might make a difference in rooting. I took six penta cuttings at the same time and they are doing well, except for one that I think a squirrel got to, but they are far behind the Amistads.
I took a rescue cutting of Amistad, and it rooted very quickly.
I'm pretty sure it is a hybrid with a red sage, but with smaller flowers than gesneriflora. None of the other purple guaranitica hybrids show any sign of stolons or tubers. Whatever the red sage is, it probably branches freely.
The size of the leaves suggest that one or possibly both parents may have smaller leaves. The flowers look like they are 80 to 90% of the size of most guaranitica forms.
I don't have a big enough plant of Amistad to validate these observations, though.
Stolons don't show up on S. stolonifera and S. oxyphora until the plants get really mature.
These are the salvia Amistad that I received from Kermit on the 16th. I potted them up on the 19th and they have just taken off. The last 3 days I have seen hummingbirds feeding on them. A really nice plant.
Much to my surprise, I was finally able to find Amistad at one of my local nurseries!! I am very excited and I have to say that as soon as I put it outside tonight, one of my Anna's went right to it. No pictures, it was too cloudy and raining, but I have a good feeling about the hummingbird use of this flower already!
On the downside, I know it won't get the heat that it might require, I can keep it in a very large pot, or would it be better in the ground, maybe in a raised bed?
Sadly cant say that Ive seen a hummer use the amistad as yet , doesnt mean they havent its a little out of my line of sight so I moved it so I can watch it better. But this evening they have been hitting my black and blue from the nursery quite hard. Looking forward to more plants being in full bloom.
Mine is still in a pot. I'll be transplanting it into one of the garden beds within the next week. No hummers here though to see how much use it gets. I do really like those beautiful purple blooms and the growth habit of this plant.
I planted one Amistad in a container and the other in the ground. The one in the container looks great, with rich green leaves, and is growing quickly. The in-ground plant has barely grown at all and has lighter-colored leaves. Three or four leaves at the base of the plant have turned completely yellow. The container plant is about twice the size of the in-ground one now. Does the in-ground plant just have a simple nitrogen deficiency? I've been wanting to give it some fertilizer but it has been raining every day for the last week.
It's been windy the past couple of days and I've found the pot laying on it's side. Today I had several broken branches! Grrrrr ....
Kermit - Thanks for that info. It makes me think I should have one of each of my salvia's growing in pots since we are prone to rain with hurricane season beginning. I'd sure hate to lose all my plants during the seasonal stormy weather this summer/fall. And I could move potted plants into the garage during a storm.
I think with our sandy soil here in Florida that they would not get wet feet, Becky, but I don't know your situation. They grow very easily from cuttings, so you can take the broken stems and probably get them to grow. Keeping one or two in a pot can't hurt though.