this will certainly open a lot of discussion.
here are the facts!
SCHOLARSHIPS TO DATE-DIVISION 1
OPJHL-39-35 TEAMS 1.1 PER TEAM
BCHL -48-16 TEAMS 3 PER TEAM
AJHL -43-16 TEAMS 2.76 OER TEAM
USHL -153-12 TEAMS 12.75 PER TEAM
THIS USED TO BE THE LEAGUE TO PLAY IN TO GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL. ITS OBVIOUS THAT THERE ARE BETTER ROUTES TO TAKE.
TOO MANY TEAMS? TOO WATERED DOWN? TOO MANY PARENTS OWNING TEAMS? LETS GET IT STARTED!
The USHL is as close to the O as you can get in the States. Some schools put their recruits on one of these teams for a season or two for some experience.
Alot of the supporting role spots on the less successful teams come from local talent. This is because a scholarship for a local kid costs a lot less then a scholarship for a kid from out of the area. Is it possible that is why the USHL has generates so many more scholarships? Of course it's also the local league.
In previous postings, going back a number of years, people have been commenting on the fact that the OPJAHL was beginning to resemble a "next step" from Bantam hockey. Too many kids have been rushed through, and too many "not so knowledgeable" people have gotten into running teams for reasons only they know. Actually we all know, but let's stay on topic.
Why there are so few scholarships is in part due to the fact that scouts have gotten tuned in to the fact that far too many players in this league are NOT of Junior A calibre, and have moved on to other leagues to scout for talent.
I somehow feel that since the graduating class of 85's, the league has really began to stumble.
Remember, 86's and 87's had that new catagorization to deal with. Heck, 87's never played "Bantam". The jump for them was Minor Bantam to Minor Midget, and then two years at Midget. That was too much for many, and we started seeing a downward slide in calibre, again due to "rushing".
There was a time when only a handful of players made a jump to Junior prior to actually completing Midget, where they actually learned the game, and came into the league prepared.
Go to a Junior practice these days, and watch how many players have trouble doing basic drills. Never mind that, some have skating issues, and receiving a pass is a totally lost art. The reason,they are not prepared to play and haven't gone through the proper steps to get to Junior, but hey why bother, when your dad, uncle, next door neighbour, or now even the owner of your hockey school or goalie school own or are part owners in teams. Get the drift? "Come to my school, and your chances at the Junior level increase, especially once I've informed your parents you have "natural talent" (equal ofcourse to the amount of money your parents have to invest in your "natural talent")."
I know I seem like a gloomster, but I love the game, and I've watched this game go downhill. Worse, I've seen many talented players quit the game because of political B.S. surrounding the game. Now, why do other leagues have more scholarships handed out? Don't they have similar problems? Probably, but none have the amount of teams in a league that to a large extent is still attached to a city the size of Toronto, and the amount of teams within a circumference to Toronto, where the political goings on are so prevalent.
If I had a kid still playing the game, and he, or she, had real "natural" talent, I'd encourage him/her to find a secondary market league to play in. Move to a smaller community where hockey means something, and where the calibre of the league is more important to the people running it than the $$$ thing. of course money is important, but local communities support their local teams. Check out the attendance at some Junior B centres compared to Playoff attendances in the OPJAHL. Scary, and they blow away the OPJAHL all season long. Some of these Junior B teams have season ticket bases that are larger than OPJAHL attendance per game, before walk ups. If you think it doesn't help inspire the players to have that kind of local support, your wrong.
In summary, and I'm sorry I got so longwinded, but it really bugs me, the OPJAHL should be leading the country not following in the hockey bag stench of other leagues. The future is now, and if the league doesn't step it up, it'll one day go the way of the dodo, and be run by more of those same dodos.
i think that there should be a 12 team super junior a league that relegates the bottom two teams each year and promotes the two top teams from the rest. it should have a tough constitution that really enforces the rules and have owners that can afford to run the teams and mandate that no relative of any player can own or manage any team. if this worked out there would be enough fans to make these teams a break even proposition and would eliminate the nonsense we see daily in this league as it is now. the facts i presented to start this thread prove that this league does not develope the players nor does it do a good job in marketing them. i have spoken with tons of schools and a lot of them realize that the stats on pointstreak are skewed and it was proven when streetsville had clips on their website clearly showing goals and then look at the box scores and oops theres phantom points.that should be a fineable offense!.it ruins the credibility of everyone else. incidently streetsville has pulled the clips from the site. hmmm.i wonder if they also went to pointstreak to fix the stats back!
in short..fewer teams.rules that are enforced.no parent owners.honesty in stats and people to promote the players and understand the ncaa and cis rules etc
I would be more likely to compare the number of D1 scholarships the CJAHL leagues have compared to the NAHL... not the USHL.
An interesting scenario would be a retraction in the size of the OPJHL... back down to 12-16 teams.... and restart the Metro and Central leagues. They can compete against the GOJHL for the Sutherland Cup. Heck, if they want, they can start calling themselves Tier III Junior A like they did in the US.
I had to pick a twelfth team. I decided to go with one whose city has a storied tradition of Junior hockey, with seating for the fans that would likely want to see this great league.
I Luv Hockey;
No, I do not have to include Vaughan on that list.
You may feel they deserve to be there, but that would be for your list.
durham region doesnt get support for jr a and the three teams there are not top caliber teams. with this idea they have the opportunity to earn their way in.
Check out some of the posting on this, and "Tigerpaws" that go back a couple to three years, and you'll find every excuse in the book for why Canadian schools don't step up to the plate.
My son had designs on going to a Canadian Uni, until he found out that the rosters are full of graduated OHL'ers.
Maybe the schools could consider Jr Varsity, but it comes down to money, and the story is there is none, and so Canadians get s****ed out of educations again, especially if your 18-20, graduated highschool, can't get on a JR A team because some guys 15 year old "Pheenom" has a spot, on his father's team.
Oh no, I'm not going there again.
I look at this a different way. I know there are a lot of valid points here, but one key area where the OPJHL is lacking, through no fault of the league or the teams, is the availability of ice time for practices throughout the GTA. The demand for ice time is so high, that some teams can barely get their one practice night a week, let alone that one "extra skate" after a poor performance, or an emergency practice to get a rehabbing player skating. This is a problem throughout the GTA, and has been for a long time, and I am surprised nobody mentioned it here when practice time is a huge part of every player's development.
Ever think this is the eventual result of the CDM and the OHL?
Think about it, fewer 16 year olds in Junior means fewer remain in Junior A at 17 because of OHL; and consequently more 17 year old Junior A rookies who are behind in development. While its true the USHL has a ton of scholarships and take in players at 17 and 18, in the US system kids play play where ever their skill level takes them-ie no CDM quotas....
Add to that the aggressive OHL tactics of taking players who have committed to the NCAA and convincing them to blow their eligibility with a school deal and playing games at 16.....
Maybe there is another reason besides the ones you mention, all of which I agree with.
There are few teams playing Junior A hockey located in the GTA, and they for the most part have no ice time problems.
Markham/NYork/Vaughan/St Mikes/,am I missing one, could be considered GTA teams, and I doubt there is a problem with ice.
HOWEVER...I will agree that ice time for GTHL practices is a problem. I know that if young kids don't practice, their chances of actually learning the game is in jeoprody.
The cost of icetime is out of hand, and will continue to go up. The price organizations then can charge parents goes up, and the unfortunate part of it is, many cannot afford to enroll their children.
This is a growing dilema, and I wish I knew a way out of it.
Maybe instead of an Air Canada Centre, Scotia Bank Centre etc, some corporations could back hockey at the local level.
IE: Could you imagine for sake of discussion, the TD Bank sponsoring hockey in the GTHL or an area in the OMHA. I don't mean every penny. There are other corporations. But consider what a MILLION dollars would mean to youth hockey ina particular area, and what a spit in the ocean a MILLION dollars would be to the TD Bank. One million??? Hell why not more? These are CANADIAN Banks, all accross the country. The good public relations of a nationwide hockey program set up by our largest corporations would be massive.
Of course...no Brewries, or cigarette companies. My *od, it would undermine the moral fibre of our youth. I say that with toungue in cheek, but I'm sure you get my drift...Right Molson Indy,etc.
There is a huge shortage of ice time in the GTA. It's been a problem for years. Which one of those teams that you mentioned owns their own arena and doesn't play in a city-owned rink (with the exception of St. Mike's)? Even the teams that have agreements with the city to set aside ice time for them, still have to PAY for the ice time, and there are a lot of cash-strapped teams in the league that cannot afford that extra ice. So, not only is there a shortage of ice time, the shortage drives up the price, which makes it unaffordable, and therefore unavailable.
You don't really expect that teams would get FREE ice time do you. Time is money, and the cost of maintaining arenas is significant. My feeling, as I put forward, was that some of our huge corporations help out "our national game" at the grass root level, with MONEY.
With no malice intended, companies like ...all the banks, Molson, and the rest of the brewers, Ford, and the other car companies, et al, who spend countless millions on advertising on TV, radio, rags, and everywhere else, could surely find enough money to donate to say Hockey Canada, and then have a qualified team of accountants to divert those funds to minor hockey teams all over our country. Consider this. twenty corporations, and there are more than that, that already sponsor hockey on TV and Radio, get together and get it done, how that would impact the entire hockey system.
Think it could happen?
wont ever happen and if you get hockey canada involved it will be worse. this isnt about ice time its about how this league can develop players that can get to the next level like it used to. times have changed and its obvious others have passed us.TOO MANY TEAMS...WATERED DOWN ON ICE PRODUCT...BAD(PARENTAL) OWNERSHIP..
Wait, where in my post did I say that teams should get free ice? In your previous post, you stated that there is no lack of ice time for the teams in the GTA, and I was only pointing out that the general shortage of ice time in the GTA is an ongoing problem and what little ice time is available is an extremely expensive budget item for most teams in this league, who do not have very much money. Nowhere did I say I expect that anyone should get free ice, just that the shortage does affect how much practice time the players are getting. That has been a problem in this league for years, it isn't new.
Please ... for someone who really is uninformed with all this ... how many teams in the OPJHL actually have an owner & son the team? I know that Aurora's coach has one, and Markham's coach has one ... but who else?
owners with kids
markham
ajax
newmarket
stouffville
dixie
streetsville
orangeville
pickering
aurora ( gm's kid)
i'm sure theres more so if anyone can complete this list please help.
Bramalea (daddy)
Georgetown (corrupt coaches, GM & bought positions)
Hamilton (daddy & **** GM)
Milton (daddy times 2)
Oakville (daddy times 2 or 3?)
Streetsville (daddy times 2 & ultra **** GM)
Port Hope (daddy)
Kingston (daddy may decide goalie son is ready)
Cobourg (was **** with a daddy GM apparently new owners & staff))
Lindsay (daddy)
Bowmanville (daddy)
Quinte (daddy)
St. Michael's (will be daddy coach)
Ajax (daddy)
Durham (did have a daddy GM, but now gone)
Markham (daddy coach)
Vaughan (daddy?? mommy?? well corruption is virtually guaranteed)
Toronto (daddy)
Pickering (daddy)
Very soon you can add JR Canadiens to that list. I'm also sure there are more out there with some "hideen" affiliations.
When we were discussing ice time, I understood wrongly I guess.
The KIDS need to learn the skills. There is little or no ice time available for teaching. Something has to be done, or we will continue to see a decline in basic skills.
I was hoping that my "rant" would inspire, or at least bring forward the CORPORATIONS that make money due to hockey, whether as a sponsor at the pro level, or otherwise, to step up and help, Canadawide.
I am convinced they have the resources rto do it, but I doubt they ever would. Not good "business".
Then again, who's going to buy the sticks, skates, pads etc, if the kids are playing other sports,and not hockey.
Timbits is a great program. We need MANY MANY more, and I'm sure Tim Horton's would appreciate having other companies on board as either co-sponsors, or other programs to help kids learn.
Hey, how about more pro players with the resources they have, getting more involved. Tax write offs and all that financial stuff is always a good reason, or do they just buy teams for their nephews etc.
I better shut up, I'm getting really p***ed.
"The players say the Dukes organization has a certain allure based on its winning history and reputation as a team adored by a small but dedicated fan base that packs the town's only arena, a tiny and cramped old-time rink with one side of bleachers and an air horn that blares after Dukes goals and wins.
"The guys that come here aren't coming for the cosmetics, or the amazing sports complex we have," Abrams said. "They play here because we practise every day and they want to be hockey players.""
So how do the Dukes do it? Coorporate sponsorship in Wellington? An arena that has limited seating therefore limited gate revenues despite the fact they pack them in. Apparently no rich daady in the wings.
Another reason hockey players love to come to Wellington is the standing name of "Hockeytown Ontario". The Worthington article from a few years ago is well worth the read. The four corners, The Grill, The apothecary, the local grocery store, close your eyes and you would think your in Flin Flon in the mid fifties. Combine this with a no nonesence approach to team success and you know why real hockey players want to go there.
Bramalea (daddy)
Georgetown (corrupt coaches, GM & bought positions)
Hamilton (daddy & **** GM)
Milton (daddy times 2)
Oakville (daddy times 2 or 3?)
Streetsville (daddy times 2 & ultra **** GM)
Port Hope (daddy)
Kingston (daddy may decide goalie son is ready)
Cobourg (was **** with a daddy GM apparently new owners & staff))
Lindsay (daddy)
Bowmanville (daddy)
Quinte (daddy)
St. Michaels (will be daddy coach)
Ajax (daddy)
Durham (did have a daddy GM, but now gone)
Markham (daddy coach)
Vaughan (daddy?? mommy?? well corruption is virtually guaranteed)
Toronto (daddy)
Pickering (daddy)
I believe the issue with the OPJHL & their reduced scholarship has more to do with the lack of motivation from the league & teams to promote players. In addition the questionable motivations of some of the parent/owners.
Of the approx 40 2008 & after recruits 29 come from 5 teams. That is just under 75% from 5 teams. The remaining 25% from 30 teams?
In addition some of the players that are going are questionable. You have one dimensional offensive players that do not even average 1 point a game on a top team & almost half the points come on the PP. You have others forwards that average about 1/2 a point per game. Another is a defenceman with zero lateral movement & overall weak skills. I know some kids may not have the grades or may be ineligible, but there is some good talent yet to find a spot.
There was a study commissioned by then Hockey Canada that broke out the odds of getting to the next level after minor hockey was over. The breakdown went as such...
To get drafted by the OHL.......1000 to one.
To play at least 1 season in
the OHL .......1500 to one
To receive an NCAA D-1 Scholly..3000 to one
To get drafted to the NHL.......10,000 to one
These were for players born, if I am remembering properly, in the year 1974.
As you can see it is verrrry hard to get a Scholly, with more and more US born players playing a a high level.
When you factor in the clearing house, the marks, and the character assessments that the teams make just to be considered is an accomplishment.
only four D3 commitments to date. the d 3 season is over so maybe it will heat up but of 149 signed to date to only have four is cause for concern. something is definitly wrong with this!
From what I've heard since D3 does not have athletic scholarships then the commitments do not get announced in the same nature. If you look at the site many teams don't even have commitments listed.
thought i would weigh in here for a minute - thought the tier ii system was there to further enhance the player (playr!!). If that is the case, let's also look to see how many kids graduated from this system to the OHL and then on to CIS university 3 or 4 years down the road. Not all kids play tier ii to get an ncaa scholorship.
Reasons to play tier II
1. Play a higher level of hockey and finish high school.
2. Go to school (college/university in Canada) and play a high level of hockey before trying to make a Canadian CIS team.
3. Develop to make it to the next level - OHL. And then on to minor leagues or Canadian Universities.
4. Just to play?
US scholarships are getting fewer and fewer; as the game matures south of the border, they are going to keep their scholarships for their own. As well, there is no longer an unlimited supply of money. Girls hockey eats up quite a bit of what used to go to men's hockey scholarships years ago.
