i thot it was just fireworks but omg such a good day today. the oha has nuked the ojhl and split it in two. oha appointed comish to run it all. im told the classic conference was playing the old games and not cooperating as they agreed 100% to do and it forced the oha to do this to ensure peace. the classc conf was refusing to talk or even agree to a meeting time with the central. the people that previously ran the ojhl are deeply involved in the classic conference...good luck with that.
time for the central to show their speed and ability to execute.
If true, this does not surprise me. The classic conference teams have been unwilling to hold themselves to the strict standards of accountability and governance under which the Central Conference teams prefer to operate. That will always be the stumbling block between the two sides attempting to reasonably work together to do what is best for Jr. A Hockey, which is what the Central Conference wants.
the classic conference plays under the rules of hockey canada.if you want change then it needs to happen here and keep the rules the same for jrA hockey across canada.
hc set minimumstandards and rules. Everyone follows the rules or claims to. The standards for organizations and game play are where the central is all about that.
The central original 8 now have to step up and deliver what they said they wanted to do. Nobody in their way now.
FINALLY!!!! We will now have a 15 team junior A hockey league in southern ontario!!! with the 21 team feeder system now available we will have the means to build a very good league .
Except that the problem with your "15 team Jr. A theory" is that 21 teams opted for the only TRUE Jr. A hockey in the OJHL...the Central Conference. See, according to the Hockey Canada rules that the Ontario Conference loves to cite, Jr. A Hockey is supposed to be AMATEUR HOCKEY. The old system, espoused by the OC, is more like semi-pro, what with under the table payment of overagers. They try to undermine the credibility of the Central Conference not because of the quality of hockey, not because of the development of players, no...the OC teams do not truly give a damn about developing the best hockey players. They only care that the Central Conference mandate of strict adherence to accountability and governance would expose them and their practice of trying to buy championships rather than build them properly with a solid development plan. And those of you on here who spew their party line of "20 year olds are the only players who should be guaranteed spots on a Jr. A team" are only buying into their crap, to be perfectly honest.
You know what sharpie, kids do alot of talking, they brag about what they get and the complain about not getting "stuff$$$$" I can honestly say, the kids that are chirping about getting paid, getting gas, equipment, school paid for etc. etc. etc. are not ONLY from teams in the Classic Division, I am not going to come on here and give names but you can be sure, if I did give names you would find some of them probably an even # from both divisions say they get money. I am just telling what has been dressing room talk between players, from both divisions.
ask newmarket how much soso was paid. smith at st mikes..henwood at st mikes...
players are allowed to receive gas money and if a players tuition to attend classes on a part time basis is paid for by a team then i applaud that. there were rules broken in the central last year and an owner of one team was suspended. i wonder if the player in question still was paid.
i am a firm believer that players should not be paid and also that 20 year olds that did not play in the ojhl as 19 year olds should go on to senior or minor pro teams. this would virtually eliminate the abovesaid problem. limiting the number of 20 year olds is discrimitory and that is why i think hockey canadas rules should be followed.
the big problem is also mandating the 16 year olds. not the way to ice the best product. next they will mandate how many 17 18 and 19 year olds as well. then its equal ice time. then its three minute buzzer shift changes. then all teams will get a trophy at the end of the season. its house league mentality and does not develop the best players.
i am glad that the central has gone their seperate way and that we now will have a small competitive junior a league. and remember that the big reason st mikes started all of this was they were sick of wasting their time going to ajax to win by double digits!!! that was what they said not me..
the central will not offer good competitive games every night any more than the junior a league as you will always have teams that just aren't good enough.
it happens in all leagues at all levels.
central will attract teams that want to go cheap..soon they will charge players etc...
i agree with 20 year olds only being allowed if they played jrA,B,C as a 19 year old.i also don't see a problem paying for some tuition for players who want to play jrA hockey and aren't looking for a scholarship.why can't the oha put limits on gas etc that all teams must follow ?do like the nhl and put a cap on the maximum/minimum teams can spend in a season. cut the number of cards a team gets to 30 so teams have to be sure a player is good enough before they sign him. i can go along with a 20 year old limit of 6-9 and the hockey canada limit of 2 16 year olds but i disagree with any mandate of who must dress.
i love it another spin day for the haters. at least the central had the gonads to do something when confronted with a situation. the core groups response is to bury it to make sure that they can keep doing the same things for their own team.
heres a news flash for the classic conference: the ncaa is on to you. the oha is on to you. the classic conference forced the split since lets face it the central teams were now in the majority control of the league and those classic conference teams were facing the tune of having to play by the central rules. that meant central gonads of enforcing amateurism. now the 'hogs' of the classic are lining up at the trough and just might not be able help to indulge themselves and risk every player in their new old league's status as an amateur. parents should demand it in writing from the teams ownership in writing that they guarantee that no players in their teams are being compensated outside of the rules of amateurism. I cant envision that guarantee will be signed by every classic team or management for risk of them being held personally or corporately responsible for breaking those guarantees if it happened.
the classic conference is going to be a free-for-all.
lets not forget who the oha is putting in place as overall commissioner. the same guy the central proposed to do so and the classic conference teams fought.
i think the central has the attention and confidence of the oha now. i dont think the same is true of the classic conference. the central will move on and do what it does best, develop and promote players in an tight structure and willing to enforce standards and rules. in the classic can wolves make rules to keep wolves out of the henhouse?
onwards and upwards. ttfn classic conference. the central is today's game and "tomorrow's game". the classic has been and will forever be "yesterday's game". i think the phrase is check-mate.
It seems that the seasons haven't even started and already the bitching has started of who has the best conference. If a team has the financial backing to help less fortunate players who's parents are not rich and lets face it hockey is a down right expensive sport for parents to put their kids through. If the owners feel a certain player is good and needs some financial help then I applaude those owners. Because they are helping a kid who may have a chance to develop and someday play in the NHL succeed and live his dream.
I am not going to bring up the past but it seems like everytime you turn around somebody is bitching about something. If I recall the Central has to have the worst whiners and complainers in it. Do what the league has done in the past sweep it under the carpet. I wish that half of you knew what really goes on behind the scenes and how some of these coaches and GM's really try to minipulate and scare players aawy from other teams so the competition isn't so steep. Take off the dark shades folks and take a real hard look. I have and man oh man you wouldn't beleive what you will see when you use your eyes and a **** load of common sense.
Grow up and let the gosh dang kids play hockey.
I couldn't care less of what division our team plays in, it is just nice to have a team to watch. It is great to see players have a chance to develop and move on. Atleast now with the two leagues seperate the real hockey can begin. I am more so looking forward to all the complaining that is going to take place when RBC is won again.
I would really like to know, what has the Central Conference accomplished to date??? that all the other teams in the OJHL haven't.
The only thing that I can see they accomplished was that they were unable to produce a WINNER to represent the OJHL at the RBC, and I am very doubtful, now that they have put a cap on 19 and 20 year olds, that they ever will. The central should change their name to the "Maple Leaf Conference" since they probably will never have a "sniff" at the RBC again, in the same manner that the Leafs will never ever have a "sniff" a the Stanley Cup again.
What I can't understand from guys like PM and others, is why they "slug" the Ontario Conference when all they are doing is operating within the rules as set down by HC. The Central is operating by their own rules, they are the ones that are "off" so to speak.
Also I would like to know how many "bone fide" Audited Financial Statements from the 8 original teams have been submitted to date to the Central Conference regarding last year's operations and how many Power of Attorneys were received and are on file signed by every player that competed in the Central last season.
My sources tell me there is not very much of anything filed to date.
Come on Central (M71), prove my souces wrong, let's have an update and report.
Where are the 8 Audited Financial Statements and some 175 to 180 signed player Power of Attorneys duly witnessed at $150.00 a shot?? Are the Statements and POT's attached to the 300 page report??
PM must have hit his head very hard cause every thing coming out of his mouth is S***.Three years ago all these team played each other. Last year the central was introduced with a few rule changes and this year teams were able to pick where they wanted to go central or classic. So the majority went to the central cause they like the way its ran or the rules or for whatever reason fine and the teams that did not want to go to the central are now just going to be a bunch of wash ups? all of a sudden the classic is CRAP? just a bunch of twenty year old's that are not going anywhere? HELLO earth to all the central Gods we were all playing each other three years ago and everything was fine it was some good hockey i must say. An all of this crap about buying players and paying players give me a break it happens every where and it will continue to happen every where does not matter classic or central the biggest culprit of buying and paying players I believe is in the central and was last year and also PAID! a big price for a goalie maybe they should have paid a bit more cause they never went as far as it was said they would and definitely would not got passed Kingston. Anyway its almost hockey time two months to go and we all will see but it does not matter anyway who has the better players,rules ECT there will always be haters.
GO HAWKS GO
Well, I'd hate to have to give the names of the Central Division players that say they were paid last year and I know are going to ncaa this year.........wouldn't that suck for them and your Central Division. Oh and by the way I know a Central Team that has been Tampering with an Otter to come play for them and there has been "incentives" offered.
Good luck in your policing!!!!
Whateveritis (Login Whateveritis) Registered Members
Re: BOOM!
July 2 2009, 5:48 PM
Sharpie: "The old system, espoused by the OC, is more like semi-pro, what with under the table payment of overagers."
Maybe I'm just being silly, but surely if the payments are being made under the table like you say, surely it doesn't matter if the team is supposedly following the OC or the CC rules. Under the table is under the table.
Gazettesports (Login Gazettesports) Registered Members
Re: BOOM!
July 3 2009, 5:03 PM
Some might consider it an alarmist's point of view, but there is a good point buried underneath all the posturing here and that's what the NCAA might find if they were to start to dig around the OJHL.
I'm pretty sure that if team X was providing compensation to even one player over and above what the NCAA considered amatuer expenses, everyone's eligibility might be cooked (likely the entire team and probably the league as well).
Putting the balanced playing field argument aside for second, this should be the real concern of everyone associated with Junior A-Keeping players amatuer status pure.
the ncaa is not going to look for teams that pay for more than allowable expenses. i'm sure they know it's happenning. they concentrate more on recruiters paying players to come to their program. i'm sure anything that happens in the ojhl happens in the other jrA leagues in canada.
Except that when it happened in the Central, the Central took swift and decisive action against the guilty team. The fact is, it DOESN'T happen everywhere. It has always been commonplace in the OJHL for whatever reason, because the "old boys" have always felt that was the only way to compete with the other Jr. A leagues in Canada, when in reality a development model like the Central is the only real way to compete...DEVELOP BETTER HOCKEY PLAYERS AND START DEVELOPING THEM AT A YOUNGER AGE.
a few years ago a player at the junior 'a' level tried to file for unemployment insurance in the off season based on the money he had received from a team... (or an injury either way he was trying to collect money since he wasnt getting it from his team anymore)
... (ie the money was under the table)
and it wasnt in this league...
to say it doesnt happen everywhere is about as correct as saying it does happen everywhere
there are teams that follow the rules and teams that dont, and teams that make it look like its by the rules on paper ...
but until there is full disclosure by every team in every league(and that is no likely to happen when private money is involved)... the issue is merely a great way to get posts on a forum
in short unless you spend 24 hours a day with the person who signs the cheques you are only best guessing one way or the other
agreed so what the central is doing is holding the player (or his family if under age of majority) and the gms/owners directly responsible for their actions in signing declarations that if broken or fraudlently signed will mean a whole lot of hell raining down on a few people as opposed to the whole league and its players taking the hit.
i'd safely say 8-10 of the classic conference teams owners/gms/players would have no problem signing the documents. the other 7-5 teams while maybe not doing anything wrong dont feel comfortable doing that just in case.
i will safely say 100% of the central teams owners/gms/players will sign those documents.
its all about taking responsibility for your actions instead of hiding behind others and hoping that nobody is willing to take everyone down. the oha is thinking otherwise now.
Exactly. The Central is about accountability and credibility, and that is why when something happened last season, they ealt with it swiftly and decisively. I daresay the result would not have been the same prior to the formation of the Central.
the central is trying to have full disclosure and trying to clean up the game which is great. but to say players arent getting perks or aren't being paid and that it DOESN'T HAPPEN 100% is just stupid. you sound more like a pr person for the league than someone with an informed opinion.
it happens. it'll continue to happen. but they're making it harder to happen. which is a good thing.
considering the things that have been offered to a pair of my sons friends shows me its still happening. both teams were in the central and both sets of parents were the ones approached about the benefits of playing for them not the kids.
Riddle me this, Wex...if the attitude was league first, and for the betterment of development and Junior hockey and whatever other rhetoric has been spewed by the ODC hype machine, then why was it all done behind closed doors, BLATANTLY IGNORING the votes of the vast majority? Something that is for the betterment of the entire league surely would be voted unanimously by all 36 teams, right? So why did they have to back-door this if they had their so-called \"league first\" attitude? I\'ll tell you how, we are all being fed BLATANT LIES by these self-proclaimed men of integrity, and those who support this are biting because their teams are involved, no other reason.
Again, I am so happy that the team I work for kept itself out of this, and stood with the majority who were IN THE RIGHT. I am very proud to work for a team that conducts itself with TRUE INTEGRITY, not the kind that the liars have manufactured for themselves to look good in the papers.
That's right, I opposed how the Central was formed. Still do. Doesn't mean I ever disagreed with the principles behind it. I never complained about what they were trying to do, just the way they chose to go about it.
mannmi! i couldn't have said it any better myself. you are right on. the ideas are good the people that started it are in it for their own egos and to go cheap. now they have most of the dregs of the league with them and it will be a developement league to feed junior a eventually as the players will always want to play the best level of hockey they can so they will gravitate to the junior a league.
sure sharpie! all the best players will rush to ajax as shown by the quality they got at their rookie camp this year. they would much rather play for ajax than oakville or georgetown . the rules you talk about were only broken by one team last year and that was a central team..
Sharpie, you said it yourself concerning the Central
- we are all being fed BLATANT LIES by these self-proclaimed men of integrity
- not the kind that the liars have manufactured for themselves to look good in the papers.
Looking at the Central league & then the Ontario Conference. I can tell you the one thing some organizations from the Central excel in, is past Fraud Charges &/or questionable fraudulent activities that have been publically investigated & in some cases may be future fraud or similar charges.
Not saying the Ontario Conference are saints. In fact a few of the owners I just do not like, but if anyone wants to bring up integrity, I have more faith in the Ontario Conference.
"Sharpie, your "naiveness" is only surpassed by your "ignorance" of Junior hockey.
I'm beginning to understand why the Waxers let you go."
And your stupidity is surpassed only by your rudeness.
1) The Waxers did not let me go. One jerk in the organization let me go, against the wishes of the ownership and GM, I might add. I was invited back, but refused to return if he was still there.
2) I would put my knowledge of the inner workings of Jr. A Hockey, my network of TRUE FRIENDS in Jr. A Hockey, and my reputation within Jr. A Hockey up against almost anybody's, and especially against yours, any day of the week.
If you're not going to add anything constructive to a conversation with me, then do not converse with me ever again, plain and simple.
with all your knowledge and reputation then why in heck are you working for ajax? markham kept that one guy over you didn't they? what about the other teams you've worked for? surely a better team than ajax would jump at the opportunity to have someone with your knowledge and reputation on their staff.
And it is only your opinion that there are better opportunities than Ajax out there, based on your own personal and incorrect prejudices and assumptions about the organization. If you knew anything about the inner workings of the club, and if you really had ANY clue about ANYTHING at all, you'd know why I chose Ajax over the other opportunities I was offered.
And, like I said, Markham didn't "choose" anybody over me. I was offered the opportunity to return. I turned it down.
Bottom line...and this goes for wingfan, SMC, and everybody else who doesn't have a clue...
Until you choose to learn a thing or two about what you are talking about, please do not talk to me anymore about anything. And do not presume to say anything about teams that I know more about than you ever will. Thank you.
Sports
June 24, 2009 02:20 PM
Cuddy Shark
By John Cudmore
Tomorrow's Game is the new game in town.
The Ontario Hockey Association project to restructure junior hockey in Ontario received resounding support at the organization's annual meeting last weekend in Grand Bend.
Now, the test will be putting the plan, which, in many aspects, reflects the Ontario Junior Hockey League's controversial Central Division pilot project of the 2008-09 season, into play and convincing people it is good for them.
A three-tiered concept will be introduced for the 2010-11 season, although it is expected to take three to four seasons to phase in, as the path to a junior hockey product that will improve the culture, infrastructure and business standards in the game.
Now, it falls upon the OHA to proceed in elaborating, educating and crafting the plan to be viable to its members. Tweaks are required between now and the 2010 AGM when the final approval to launch would be required.
In the end, Tomorrow's Game will include three competitive tiers - premier and two developmental levels, characterized by various operating standards as you go up the ladder.
Some sacrifice will occur.
"Sure, there was some apprehension," OHA president Brent Ladds said earlier this week. "People know some tweaking will be required, but they seem willing to move forward and help improve the game.
"The main goal is for individual teams to look at the templates we have provided and see if they can meet the challenge of those templates. The only way anyone will get excluded is by choice or failing to meet the standards.
"It comes back to the comfort level for each team and whether they want to give up that culture."
Newmarket Hurricanes owner Anthony Pietramala sees a long-overdue opportunity to put in place a taut roster of teams combining on and off-ice operations at the premier level.
"This a shaking of the tree we really need," said Pietramala, a longtime advocate for upping the junior hockey product. "If it doesn't happen, I'll be disappointed. If you want to make a truly premier program, you have to go up a level."
Inevitably, that will mean losing a number of teams from the present OJHL during the transition to the premier group. In essence, teams are being given a year to get their acts together before implementation.
For many, the issue boils down to re-thinking their approaches to operating junior hockey programs. Either you do it up to standards or you go away.
"You might have to put the cart before the horse for a season to get it going," Pietramala said. "You have to run (a franchise) as a full business, with a combination of hockey and issues like education tied into it along with marketing, business practices.
"There are teams in good markets, but just don't know what to do."
Despite their successes on the ice in the past eight seasons, the Aurora Tigers are among those franchises that will require upgrades off the ice to be among the elite teams. But general manager Lonnie Freeman is excited.
"It's be a long time since I've seen so many people rowing in the same direction," said Freeman, who a year ago was the Hamilton Red Wings' vice-president of hockey operations. "I'm really encouraged at the level of participation and everybody trying to get involved.
"For years, people have sat around and said they should do this or do that. Now we're getting on committees and doing things. I think it's great people are wanting to do things."
Freeman also senses more concern from teams willing to up their game to keep up with the big dogs.
"I think some of these people are realizing it'll take a little more money to compete," he said. "I don't mean going out and spending on players, but things like hiring a scouting staff to get out to rinks and looking at young talent.
"I think the direction we are going is the only way the product will get better if there is parity. Everybody seems willing to make that happen."
This article says it all. Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears because those who refuse to see anything but their own myopic view will never open their minds to something better.
Hey Sharpie, getting back to Markham letting you go. I would like to know how one guy overules everybody else in the organization, unless the "Guy" owns 100% of the Waxers and has absolute control over everything.
Unless the "Guy" has 100% ownership, your version of why you were let go sounds a little "suspect" to me. Didn't have anything to do with the Waxer "NSF" cheque episode that you spouted off about at great lengths on the Forum last season, did it?
speaking of letting go...with all the changes in aurora (with new ownership and coaching/management changes), are you still part of and/or going to be with the tigers this season, SMC57?
There have been a lot of changes in Aurora to date that's for sure, however most of the game day people will be back including yours truly. You can't get rid of me that easily.
I have talked to the new owners, they are real nice guys and really keen on bringing back another RBC to Aurora as is Benny Soscia who retains a 1/3 interest in the Cats. Benny is as excited and raring to go as he was when he took over the Tigers in 2005. Check the Tiger website, the new management is working overtime to bring new players to Aurora.
As I'm sure you know PM, it's very difficult to give something up that you have been involved with and enjoyed for most of your life. I only hope that I'll be able to continue for a lot more years. Longevity runs in my family, so hopefully I will be able to do so.
Hockey in the winter, golf in the summer, keeps you young.
"Hey Sharpie, getting back to Markham letting you go. I would like to know how one guy overules everybody else in the organization, unless the "Guy" owns 100% of the Waxers and has absolute control over everything.
Unless the "Guy" has 100% ownership, your version of why you were let go sounds a little "suspect" to me. Didn't have anything to do with the Waxer "NSF" cheque episode that you spouted off about at great lengths on the Forum last season, did it?"
You really are the most clueless idiot I have ever come across. You blab on and on about things you know nothing about.
1) No, I have made it clear that the owner of the team never acted with anything but class and professionalism towards me. It was not the owner, nor either of the Cornacchias who fired me. The person who did fire me did so very unprofessionally, and in a manner which Joe C. himself deemed "an embarrassment" to the Waxer organization. Joe was ticked, because the person involved overstepped his bounds without Joe's knowledge. I was asked to come back, and told them I would if there was an apology from the person involved, and when that didn't come, I told them I wouldn't be back with him still there. Were they right not to fire him? Yes, because the person involved has been with the Waxers a long time. However, according to one source familiar with the Waxers, that person's attitude towards people in general and his lack of professionalism and class is the reason the Waxers have such a hard time recruiting volunteers.
2) The NSF cheque incident was not something I "spouted off" about. I read the stuff here on the forums, then I went into the office and asked Joe what really happened, then I posted his answer here. How in the world is that "spouting off"? And relaying the company line on an issue like that is not anything anyone could get fired over. What a joke you are.
Hey, glad to hear you're going to be back in Aurora though. I'm always all for anybody working hard for hockey.
the old dogs are done. Woooo!
