Just thought I would share what I have been researching.
Ok, worst care scenario an anti-transpirant and then rain for a month. The sun came out and everything bounced back. Now I have 8-10 plants blooming. I had been battling mites all year long. I saw where roses that were sprayed with it did not get mites. So the quest was on. I still have close to 75 out of 100 plants. they were constantly dropping leaves and had mites. I had tried everything.
Well we are 2 months and have not even seen 1 mite. The polymer film sprayed on the plant may have done what I was hoping for. It made a barrier that the tiny mites could not penetrate. It made my plants hold their leaves and did not harm them in any way.
I used anti stress 2000, I am sure they are all good but the 2000 went a lot further and was in stock locally. I have used 1/2 quart and sprayed everything on my growing area from vegtables to brugs with no ill effects. I did spray a few plants with mites when I started using it. It stopped them in their tracks and had no further infestation to date. None of the commercial sprays from systemics to neem oil has done even 1/10 as good. I am still going on the original sprays.
If mites got you down give it a try and let us know the results. Hopefully it will solve the problem of the number 1 enemy of brugs.
That is very interesting. I wonder what would happen if you had to spray when the blooms were opening. Did you have to spray buds? So many sprays will ruin open blooms. I've seen this product and I think I'll get some and play around with it. Spray vs. no spray. Thanks Jim. I'm glad you went the extra mile to find something to take care of your mite problem. I hope you have a Digi cam so we can see some of your brugs blooming.
I did the cautious thing at 1st as always. Spray vs no spray. I did not want to chance kill them all in one whack. I did spray some with buds and some with flowers. Results they opened as usual and the flowers seemed to stay fresh longer. The only downside, I might say was there could have been a reduction in fragrance. I have seen 0 ill effects from it. That was with heat factors of 110+ another good thing was plants like NBJ had wanted to lay out on the ground now now are growing up. I attribute this to increased turgor pressure from the spray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turgor. This a good thing. I even sprayed all of my Plumeria about 15+ Plants, and transplanted some to the ground with direct sun. It was an all out test.
I do have a digital but have nothing spectacular to show. It is still so hot and this is my 1st year gardening so everything is young, I started with sticks last November. Maybe something spectacular in the fall here like November or the 1st of December. LOL
I really like it. It has allowed me to almost completely eliminate pesticides. It is nice to see tree frogs on every plant, butterflies everywhere and a few hundred every color of the rainbow dragon flies. My yard sings to me at night and always smells wonderful.
I just fertilized my plants, I guess I will have another summer flush, they all are budding out. I will grab my camera cause I have some strange and new volunteer plants. They need to be Identified plus some beach morning glories I want to show off.
Jim, I think that you have happened upon a VERY good way to control or maybe even eliminate the mite problem when growing brugmansia. Many people use the products such as Forbid and Avid, which are very effective at controlling the mites.
Personally, I have used horticultural oils to try to control my yearly battle with the broad and/or cyclamen type mites, with somewhat acceptable results. I had never had any problem with the tarsonemid species of mites until about three years ago. Before then, I only had to deal with a small out break of spider mites during the over-wintering period of the brugs in the house.
The broad/cyclamen mites have become so bad the past two years that they have even infected my impatiens, begonias, peppers, iochromas, etc. I noticed in your post that you considered mites to be the number one pest of brugs; I have to conclude the same also. I have at times this past summer, become so frustrated with having to deal with these pests that I wanted to quit growing brugs. But I think that you have found a saving grace for me.
Horticultural oils work by smothering the insect pest and its eggs, of which NO insect has ever developed a resistance. The anti-transpirant products work essentially the same way, but much more effectively. I guess they would work more effectively because the product does not break down in the environment like the oils would.
On another note, the anti-transpirant product would help me with another problem that I have when over-wintering my brugs. Since that during the winter I have to hold over my tropical plants in an upstairs bedroom, they are subject to a warm and dry environment. I have lost brugs due to desiccation, because in this environment it is very hard to keep the root ball moist enough to keep the plant alive. I do think that the anti-transpirant products will help with that problem also, if it is applied right before bringing them in the house.
Looks like I will be ordering the Anti-Stress 2000 if I am not able to find a product locally.
Thanks so much for reporting your results with this product.
A little confused here - please, help me out. I feel like a dope asking, but......you never know unless you ask. Are the polymer film & anti-stress 2000 one in the same? Or are they two different products? Each link has a different product - Wilt-Pruf on one & then the Anti-Stress 2000 on another. If they are the same - great. If two different products - did you use them both at the same time on your plants? Thanks Jim!
Mike, I quoted your post just to make sure I had answered your question. The reason for multiple items was to give a choice of others I believe and have done research on that should work. The principal is the same. If I were buying it I would get the concentrate. It is a few dollars more but will last and cover a bunch.
Jim,
A little confused here - please, help me out. I feel like a dope asking, but......you never know unless you ask. Are the polymer film & anti-stress 2000 one in the same?
Yes
Or are they two different products? Each link has a different product - Wilt-Pruf on one & then the Anti-Stress 2000 on another. If they are the same - great.
They are the same principal.
If two different products - did you use them both at the same time on your plants? Thanks Jim!
They are different manufactures of an anti transpirant.
I used anti-stress 2000.
Anti-stress 2000 and Wilt pruf all use a polymer as the coating. I used anti-stress as it was a local purchase. They both should work. There are others available like Moisturin Anti - Transpirant and the above on ebay.
"Anti-Stress is a non-toxic, water diluteable polymer coating which is applied as a liquid spray. Once dried, an elastic membrane is formed covering the entire plant surface. The properties of the Anti-Stress membrane allows normal stomatic activities, does not interfere with photosynthesis and will effectively reduce transpiration from approximately 35 to 50%. After drying, the membrane retains super stretch qualities for unrestricted plant growth permitting leaf and plant flexibility. Although the coating permits unrestricted photosynthesis, it will not wash off when exposed to normal rainfall conditions. Anti-Stress is non-toxic, biodegradable, environmentally friendly and provides protection from 45 to 60 days."
"Wilt-Pruf is an anti-transpirant product designed to protect plants from moisture loss through their foliage. Wilt-Pruf works by forming a clear, protective coating on foliage that helps plants to retain moisture. The coating is flexible and does not interfere with plant growth. Furthermore, Wilt-Pruf is organic and non-toxic, making it safe and favorable to use in many applications."
Here is a link to the MSDS on Wilt Pruf. (all polymers)
You cleared it up perfectly & I thank you for the time it took you to clarify it for me. Sounds like I may try the Anti-Stress 2000! I'm hoping I can find it locally, such as Home Depot - Tractor Supply, heck, maybe even a nearby Wal-Mart! I'm wondering now if it will work on potted cuttings which are going to be over-wintered in the house? I know - too many questions! haha! Have a good evening Jim!
Home Depot - Tractor Supply, heck, maybe even a nearby Wal-Mart! You will not find it at any of them at least no around here. I tried, they looked at me real funny when I asked if they carried a anti-transpirant. I got mine from an old time nursery that had been in business for 50+ years. I would call a couple real respectable nurseries in the area. A knowledgeable manager can be a life saver or real time saver. LOL
Let us know how it works out. Sharing information good or bad is how we learn new things. It is cheaper to learn by example than by experience.
Thanks Jim. Rather than run around trying to find the stuff, I got mine ordered today. It's already in the mail. I wonder how my brugs would have grown had I had this two months ago, like you? LOL! I'm looking forward to trying it. Thanks again.
Due to an unpleasant interchange regarding a possible infringement of copyright laws and at Jim's request, I have deleteted all posts that were originally found from this point downward.
A normal continuation of this thread is welcome - please feel free to continue posting.
Patrick
Brug Moderator
USDA Zone 8b
Heat Zone 3
Sunset Zone 5
SeaTac, WA...one cool place
It sounds like a neat idea... think it'll work if there aren't very many leaves left?
I know I could certainly use something that will truly knock down the mites, they just keep coming back stronger and stronger. I've tried every organic and a few non-organic remedies I could find. Still fighting the urge to do a round of general pesticide.
I ordered the Anti-Stress 2000 on Friday - from the link you posted. (couldn't find it locally) The person on the other end of the telephone was very helpful! It was shipped out on Friday & I'm very anxious to try it. Thanks again for your help concerning some of the questions I asked you. You've been a big help & I'll let you know my results. Thanks Jim!
I think I will get a little to try. I have extreme problems with the hot dry winds here basically drying out and frying small delicate leaves and new growth. Any new growth has been toast this summer to the point that I really have to keep small delicate vines and cuttings indoors. I hope this will help with that problem.
Did you try this in full sun and does it cause the sun to burn the leaves more? Not that I can keep anything in full sun here lol-but just curious.
Thanks
~Lenette
Took me a little bit to understand that all those numbers at the bottom, meant lots of posts to go through. I use wilt-pruff on rhododendron's every winter, never even thought of trying it on the tropicals that I overwinter. I'll be spraying tomorrow. Thanks for all the wonderful information on this forum. It should keep me busy all winter rereading posts.
Sally, really enjoyed your Webshot albums. Loved the "boots" and your brugmansia Sunset brought back memories...had it a couple of years ago but lost it due to extreme heat. I loved the soft, sublte changes in the blooms and the variegated foliage.
Jim, a few questions... how many tablespoons per gallon do you use? And for Brugs that already have mites, do you remove the mites first and then spray, or just spray right over them?
I tried spraying right over them on two Brugs, one with red mites, the other cyclamen. Obviously, I can't see the mites on the second to check how it's working, but for the red mites... I checked every day for three days after and the little buggers we still moving around. Finally I removed and bagged every leaf on the Brug and sprayed the stems, decided it would be better to get rid of them now rather than waiting for them to move along to the next Brug.
Lynne
USDA 9b, Heat 10
Bradenton, Florida
Current Kanji: hana (flower)
Lynne, as a result of the "unpleasant interchange" mentioned above & subsequent communications that were of the same nature, Jim will no longer be posting on our forum.
Patrick
Brug Moderator
USDA Zone 8b
Heat Zone 3
Sunset Zone 5
SeaTac, WA...one cool place
Lynne, I used this stuff and it didn't work for me either. Wish I had bought stock in the company before this information was taken to the other brug forums. I might have been able to make my money back. I have no doubt that it will work for stress related problems, but I always thought that the month of rain Jim had was the reason he got rid of the mites and not the product mentioned. Now a lot of people have quarts and gallons of this stuff that will probably not even be used. Probably not the only time it's happened. LOL!
ChSam (Shirley Morr)
Chariton, Iowa
Zone 5
This message has been edited by ChSam on Oct 11, 2007 2:28 PM
Think I've been in denial about mites attacking my brugs. Since I can't see them, it's easy to ignore them until the damage is found on several plants. Not sure whether it's broad mites or cyclamen mites. A few plants have lost almost all of their leaves and getting those twisted small branches, and now that the top of Charles Grimaldi seems to be loosing leaves, it's time to do something. This seemed to happen in a couple of weeks.
I know Shirley posted a picture of mite damage not long ago but I can't seem to find it. Here's pictures of some of my damage.
Called our local nursery authority and was told that Malathyon should help. Don't think they really know what cyclamen mites are down here. Have any of you used malathyon for broad or cyclamen mites?? They didn't seem to have the products mentioned earlier in this thread and he said there is a product coming back on the market that has been banned for awhile. Didn't ask what that was.
Jarie
Mission, TX
Rio Grande Valley
Zone 9
This message has been edited by jas4141 on Oct 30, 2007 4:30 PM
It's kind of hard to tell. Look for cupped down leaves on the older leaves and hard "new" leaves. Cupped down = broad mites, and cupped up = cyclamen mites. From the looks of your leafless brug, it doesn't appear to be cyclamen or broad mites, but maybe spider mites. I don't find that the brugs defoliate much with broad mites, they just look bad. I hope you only have spider mites. They are much easier to deal with.
I'm sorry your plants are sick Jarie. I hope you are able to get rid of whatever is causing it. I was about to order some of this product that was discussed but if doesn't work then I won't bother.
Sorry, I've been outside alot lately, just getting caught up and missed the responses to my last post up there until now...
Patrick, it's ok, Jim emailed me, I think I missed the info about a second spray 1 week later, and I had the ratio right, actually I'm using 15 tbsp. to a gallon, a little stronger than necessary.
Shirley, I'm thankful to have the stuff, it's working very well for me. Although, I've found it works better if I take off the larger leaves first and spray the tips and small leaves really well. For the second spray a week later I don't bother with removing leaves first. For the first time since I got her, my Harlot actually has Ys with no signs of mites, and her leaves are growing. I'm thrilled, she might actually start to look like a plant now. She isn't the only one either, a few others that have always been a pain as far as mites are concerned... haven't seen mites on them since I sprayed.
The month of rain... I'm sorry, but Jim and I have similar climates and neither rain nor humidity nor cold of winter will knock the little buggers down, as I've mentioned before they are Mighty Mites! LOL! It's a tough, year-round battle, even in the wettest months, they're still all over.
Jarie, if what you have are mites, use a 10x or 20x magnifying glass to look at the undersides of the leaves, you may be able to just barely see them moving around. But from your pictures, it looks like some of the stems are dying too, did they perhaps cook or get too dry (or too wet) recently? Especially in the picture of the full plant, it looks like only part is having a problem. If you don't see the mites with a lens, perhaps it would work to give it a little haircut?
Malathion, I hadn't heard of it before, but a quick search gave me this link. It seems to be iffy, it may work, it may not, but the consequences, side effects, may out-weigh the good.
Up until now, I've been using Kelthane, which is dicofol. Not all that great as far as toxicity is concerned either. The last time I checked we were the only country that hadn't banned that one.
I keep hearing the names Avid and Forbid mentioned all over the place, but I couldn't get either of them if I wanted, I'm not a licensed commercial business, and proof of a license is required by law here. That's ok with me though, I like having the bees here.
The anti-stress is definately not an "instant result" kind of thing, you won't be happy with it if you expect to see a change overnight. However, a couple of weeks later, when you see leaves growing and no mites crawling around on them, it becomes really apparent that something (probably it) is keeping the mites from returning right away.
Also, I still haven't sprayed them all and the ones I haven't sprayed are still covered, so I know it isn't rain, humidity, temperature, wind, or any other changes that made the mites go away. And best of all, I'm not feeling the sickness that came every time I sprayed the Kelthane in the past.
Lynne
USDA 9b, Heat 10
Bradenton, Florida
Current Kanji: hana (flower)
I hate the smell of bug spay too. Have you noticed anything with the powdery mildew affect? That was the part I was really excited about. I had a beautiful bed of zinnias until that stuff turned all the leaves to toast. Someone let me know if it works for that please.
My memory is a bit vague, but it seems like some years back Malathion was banned & removed from the shelves. So I was surprised to hear that a nursery recommended it. I have an old bottle of it kicking around somewhere. At one time I made a soil drench with it, before bringing potted plants in for the winter. It seemed to be effective, but gave off a harsh chemical odor everytime the plants were watered...for months!
Now, speaking of Kelthane...don't I have some of that around here, too?! lol
Patrick
Brug Moderator
USDA Zone 8b
Heat Zone 3
Sunset Zone 5
SeaTac, WA...one cool place
Hate the smell of bug spray, too, Kristy and probably won't use the malathyon/malathion because it sounds wicked. I may have misunderstoood and that may be the product that is coming back. The guy at the nursery said he had just used it on some of his plants recently.
Lynne, as for looking for those tiny suckers, could find no stirring with the magnifying glass but do have leaves that curl upward and some that curl down. We're going to try one of those homemade concoctions with liquid soap, neem oil and whatever else goes in the recipe for a spray avoiding the harsh chemicals.
One of the problems living where I do, the brugs are never trimmed down like you do farther north in preparation for winter. My trimming is done more to contain and manicure them which is constant. I have a Frosty Pink that was cut way back and that plants looks sooooo good...like it has new life. So maybe the thing to do is to cut some of them way back so new grown can start. That might get rid of the mites, too.
Jarie, I meant the antistess type stuff. No way could I use chemicals on a plant in the house. I can smell that stuff up my nose for days after I use something like malathion so I only use something that harsh if I am having major problems. If I could get DH to spray it for me I would have used it on those bugs I posted. What I meant was has anyone used the antistress stuff on other plants that tend to get powdery mildew? One article I read about it claimed it would prevent black spot, powdery mildew etc. on roses and zinnia nad hydrangea. If so I would get it for that but wondered if any real people had seen this affect. Its supposed to be safe and non-toxic. More like a thin stretchable spray on skin that is breathable from what I read.
