Are these the same plant? A friend that I've swapped seeds with a couple of times sent me a cutting and she said it was insignis coral or coral glow. Anyone have any experience with this one?
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
I did find one picture of it that was called Insignis Coral Glow... so maybe thats the full name of it. It will be interesting to see what grows out. It must not be a very common variety, or maybe its just not very popular.
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
I think most people are moving on to brugs that have longer tendrils and that means Aurea or Candida if you can find them. My own yard has very few brugs that have lots of suaveolens influence in them. I'm definitely an aurea and candida person, but will grow anything that is gorgeous.
Shirley, I still get them confused. I try hard to recognize the different groups but it's tough sometimes. Let's have a discussion sometime about these species and maybe list some examples. I know it would help this "old, confused mind" and some of you know so much!!
By the way, I have very few brugs that I don't like (tendrils or no tendrils)...that's part of my problem.
I think Jarie hit the nail on the head. You and some of the others have so much experience with them and know them so well, and after having tried the many groups and recognizing their shape and habits and traits for so many years, you seek to try newer different varieties. Whereas I, and maybe Jarie too, and I'm sure the other newbies, look at them and think that they are all gorgeous and I don't know whats a new variety or special variety or old variety. I just know that they are gorgeous. And all of this goes back to my post on trying to read everything I can get my hands on to learn the differences and how to recognize what I see pictures of. This isn't a widely grown plant in my area and you never see them in the nurseries. The first bloom that I ever saw that wasn't in a picture was my own this year. So I'm very fascinated with all of them. The NOID white I grew totally enthralled me because it didn't have the biggest blooms of the others, but the white was so incredibly white that it almost had a green tint. And the white glistened the way snow does when the bright sun hits it. The others enthralled me for different reasons. And the coral glow - I'm still ponding over why they called it coral when it looks very pink to me. {LOL - ramblings of the totally ignorant). I would love if sometime all of you old timers would show us some differences in the types with your pictures and share some of that knowledge. Maybe in the winter months after the holidays and when things are slower and everybody has time to hang out longer on the forum, we can have some of those types of discussions. I would love it!
As always Shirley, thanks for responding. You are very kind to us and I always enjoy hearing what you have to say and share. And Jarie - you totally get me. Thanks for being my friend.
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
They are very new to me also and I love them all. I had only seen one real one about 5 years ago and always wanted one. Now I want a bunch and my husband is falling in love with them too. I wonder why they aren't more widely grown. They will be soon around here afer everyone sees mine next year, lol.
I have a Coral Glow that was brought to me by Colleen. It bloomed out just that -- a peachy coral. Got very tall, and all the blooms were at the very top. I just searched and realized that I did not take pics of it, however.
Kristy: Yes, you will have everyone in the neighborhood and surrounding streets addicted before its over with. I envy you having a nice new bed to display them in and a hubby thats interested too. I wish someone would jerk out my old overgrown hollys. I could fill that space very nicely.
Thanks for the link Ruth Ann. I haven't seen that before. I thought I had poked around ABADS everywhere that was open to me but I must have missed some things. I'll have to poke around again, and when I get frustrated enough, I'll pay the fee so I can read it all! mwaahahahaha!
Carrie: I'm glad to hear you've grown it before and it is coral. I'm excited about this coming year and the new cuttings I have and all the new colors I'll have next summer. I can't wait!
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
This winter would be a good time to have some conversations, especially to help new peeps get some questions answered that will help them in the future. I'd be happy to help, but I'm not an expert at all and I can make mistakes too...sometimes big ones. LOL! When you are ready later....just start a thread and we will go from there. Sounds like fun and a great way to get everyone involved.
Funny you guys should bring this up. I just re-read "Brugmansia and Datura" cover to cover last night to try and make some more sense of it all. And with all the new hybrids, it's REALLY confusing. I have post-it notes all over the book with lists of the different species and their characteristics, but I am still a bit confused. A winter thread on this would really be great.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. I'ts going to be awesome. With Thanksgiving almost upon us, I'd like to be the first to say that I'm thankful for all of you great bruggers willing to share your knowledge and experience with us newbies as well as your great plants and pictures.
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
Can't speak for Group II, can't grow them here, but maybe this'll be helpful for Group I?
A quickie look at some of the most visible differences.
Brugmansia Group I
There are three main species. B. aurea, B. versicolor, and B. suaveolens.
B. aurea:
The flowers usually nod or point straight out (sometimes upward slightly.)
The flower portion that sticks out of the calyx is usually shorter.
This one is where long tendrils and serrated leaf edges come from.
Rothkirch is a pure B. aurea, a wild-collected specimen of this species.
B. versicolor
Versicolor flowers hang straight down and have moderate length tendrils.
This species has the longest flowers and long, skinny buds.
The calyx only has 1 split where the flower comes out.
Ecuador Pink is a pure B. versicolor, wild-collected.
B. suaveolens
The flowers of these nod downward and have very short tendrils.
The calyx is generally shorter and doesn't cover the narrow part of the flower tube.
Golfito is a pure B. suaveolens, wild-collected.
There really aren't very many known pure species available, but there are more than just these three. I had a list saved, but I can't remember them all right now.
After the pure species, we have naturally occuring hybrids. That basically means a cross between a pure species and another pure species, originally found growing wild, Mother Nature made.
First, B. x. insignis.
This is a cross between a pure B. suaveolens and a pure B. versicolor that has then been crossed back to a pure B. suaveolens.
The flowers are very much like a B. suaveolens, but with longer flowers and longer tendrils.
Some examples of x. insignis style, your NOID pink, most likely, Insignis Gold, Tropical Sunset. I'm not sure which would be a wild-collected one of these.
And second, B. x. candida.
This is a cross between a pure B. aurea and a pure B. versicolor.
These typically are closer to a versicolor, but with aurea influences. If you cross one back to an aurea, it will usually be more like an aurea, same if you cross it back to a versicolor it'll look more like a versicolor. I'm not sure which would be a wild-collected one of these either.
This one is the only one that will produce doubles/triples, they are classified as Brugmansia x. candida flore plena.
You also get some nice fuzzy leaves in the candidas, a personal favorite.
For most of the named hybrids that are available, they can't accurately be labeled as any of these. Most of them aren't either pure or pure x pure. But by the visible characteristics you can usually get a pretty good guess as to which genes are dominating.
Examples:
B. aurea, B. versicolor, B. suaveolens
This isn't all of their differences, just a few. They can also be divided up and labeled even further, but that's getting past the basic beginner level.
Lynne
USDA 9b, Heat 10
Bradenton, Florida
Current Kanji: hana (flower)
This message has been edited by lynnehardi on Nov 11, 2007 5:46 PM
Wow thanks Lynn. Great descriptions. Now if I can just get them to sink in my ole lady brain. I've got some candida cross seedlings that haven't bloomed yet. Thats how they were labeled - just candida x. Sounds like they could turn out to be something nice. They seemed to grow slower than the NOIDS but I don't remember them being particularly fussy or anything. I'll be anxious to see what happens. My studies have begun.....
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
What great info/link. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to clarify some of the "Magic" of Brug-land. Lynne your explanations and examples are def. keepers. As a newbie, I know I shall be referring to them often! "">
edited for spelling:
Los Angeles County, CA
USDA Zone: 9B
Heat Zone: 8/9
This message has been edited by gee8ch on Nov 12, 2007 9:02 AM This message has been edited by gee8ch on Nov 12, 2007 8:48 AM
Kristy, warning, one of each is a dangerous beginning. I was there already, just last year, lol. After that comes one of each in each color available. Then you start noticing little differences, slight color variations, orange-red VS. pink-red, slightly longer flowers although the same color, different scents, different tendril lengths, some attract more bugs than others, and then the leaves, lightly or heavily serrated, scalloped or plain, heavily fuzzy, lightly fuzzy, stiff fuzz, no fuzz... and don't forget the doubles and variegateds, each one different from the others... oh, the choices... I'm dizzy. LOL!
Suzie, candidas are nice, a favorite of many. It would be helpful to know who the parents of your seedlings are, then you can look at pictures of the two and see many of the possibilities for what the seedlings will look like. (Not all though, sometimes a hidden trait from a parent comes out in a seedling.) Actually a hobby of mine is learning the cross of a cultivar and then comparing photos of it with it's parents to see what came from which parent, lol.
My personal opinion is that aureas, versicolors, and candidas have a stronger scent than those with more suaveolens genes, but that could be just what my nose picks up.
On why they aren't more widely grown... I've seen this question a few times lately. (I'll try to tread lightly here so as not to break too many rules.)
Legend has it that when the settlers hit the new world, they found a plant that looked similar to an edible one they had back home, the new plant was Datura stramonium. So they cooked some of this plant and ate it. Some got sick, others died, and others survived but had scary visions. The new plant was then dubbed Jamestown weed which has since been corrupted to Jimson weed. Because of what happened, this plant became a "witch's herb" and anyone found cultivating it (or rather anyone found with it in their yard) were accused of being witches and promptly put on trial and hung, burned at the stake, or otherwise removed from society. Since then other plants have been found to have the same properties as this Datura, Brugmansias included in that. The other plants were also dubbed "witch's herbs" or "devil's plants" as the witch hunt became less popular, satan worshipers soon took a witch's place in society. Therefore, for quite a while in this country, growing one of these devil plants could get you labeled as a satanist. In the early 1900s there was an influx of Mexican immigrants who brought with them another sacred plant, one that wasn't deadly or dangerous. This was given the name locoweed or wacky-tobaccy and took the spotlight away from the other plants. After a short while they were forgotton as they once were and have since grown in popularity as ornamentals.
Now, I know this is skirting on the edge, but I just can't leave the question so blatantly unanswered, lack of information and mis-information kills.
Lynne
USDA 9b, Heat 10
Bradenton, Florida
Current Kanji: hana (flower)
'Candida' means that it is a 'hybrid' combination of B. versicolor and B. aurea.
Saying seeds are a 'candida' cross in the Brug world is like saying seeds are a Florabunda cross in the rose world. It simply means the type of the group crossed, not the parents that were crossed. Brug A crossed with Brug B results in a seed pod with 75 seeds in it. Each of those 75seeds will have a different DNA from each other as well as different sets of chromosomes. No plant of the 75 will be identical to another one from the same seed pod, they may look similar but genetically they will be different.( just as 5 children from the same parents will each be genetically different from each other). The resemblance to the parents will differ with that genetic makeup.
I am already out there every day studying the leaves and going" Honey come look! This one is darker green or this one is serrated etc." I can't wait to see the different flowers. I guess some of the old reputation is still following it around is why I had such a hard time finding it but there are many more common plants that are poisonous. Its too bad but I am so glad I finally found them.
Thanks Lynne. That was a very interesting read. So, I guess we would have all been burned at the stake. Maybe that is why they're not very commonly found around here. I'm in the bible belt south and there are still alot of outdated ideas and laws in place. I teased one time in a post that my seed collecting, cleaning and trading was going to put me under suspicion one day, and the law was gonna land a helicopter on my roof. Now now with the brugs things could really get interesting. LOL.
RuthAnn - I understand about the candida x not giving us anything to go on as far as parentage. But thats all the information I have. I got the seeds in trade and I think the trader had gotten them in trade as well so theres no clue as to who they originally came from. If they make it thru the winter in the basement and bloom this summer, I can post lots of pictures and we can see if we can identify some traits which get us closer to the parents. We can dissect some leaves and blooms. LOL. Many moons ago, I used to breed persian cats seeking the perfect show cat. I didn't do it on a large scale because I always felt 1 breeding pair, 1 litter a year was my limit. They were my pets and my 'loves' so I never wanted to risk their health even for the 'perfect' kitten. Anyway, I do understand some genetics and about recessive and dominant traits. ButI don't know how things work in the plant world. I would imagine that varigated foliage would be a recessive trait since there are so few of them. Wonder which is dominent - short or long tendrils? In the animal world, the darker colors are dominent, but I don't know if that holds true for flowers. Anyway, its very interesting to me. I'm sure the brug hybridizers can predict pretty darn closely what they should get from a cross, and I'm sure they're all seekng the PERFECT plant... Which means for us, the brugs are just gonna keep getting better and better and better!
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
Suzie, not exactly a helicoptor landing, but we did have a convention checking out our Leonotis leonurus plants once. Apparently they thought we were growing something else. No harm done though, they didn't touch the plants, just stared at them for a while before deciding that they weren't C. sativa. (And it was funny watching them sit in their cars, scratching their heads for a while, lol.)
Variegation... I believe most of the variegateds are sports from other cultivars, something causes the tissue in part of it to stop making chloroplasts, the little things inside plant cells that take sunlight and turn it into food. I still don't know exactly what causes it, maybe an environmental blip that triggers a miss-fire in the plant's system? Union County College, New Jersey Wikipedia
A couple of links on plant variegation, I thought they were pretty interesting.
Lynne
USDA 9b, Heat 10
Bradenton, Florida
Current Kanji: hana (flower)
I've never grown any Leonitis, but hibiscus texas star leaves are enough to make me nervous. They always seem to get a double take too, unless their blooming and then the attention is on the blooms and not the leaves. Hopefully my lifestyle is dull enough that the helicopters won't bother checking me out, but I do worry about it from time to time. LOL.
Thanks for the links on the varigation. It does look like a varigated cross to another varigated would produce some varigated seedlings but there's no telling how many seeds you would have to grow out to get them.
Interesting too that everybody always says to properly identify a NOID you would have to do DNA testing. Looks like in the case of a variagated NOID, that still wouldn't necessarily hold true since they're chimeras. Way cool!
Zone 7
Heat Zone 6/7
Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
So Coral Glow is a Brugmansia insignis? Thats great! Read the Brug insignis is the most warm tolerant of all the brugs and should be perfect for me in a tropical equatorial climate.
Calvin, some of the more informed and knowledgeable Brugmansia growers, including Monika Gottschalk and Dr Alistair Hay worked on the cultivar list organizing the know Brugmansia into groups and they determines that Coral Glow is a Suaveolins Brug, not an Insignis and I would tend to go with what they say.
I got a cutting of one just labeled Coral so I don't know which one it is now. Lynne you are right. My husband says they all look alike and I'm like, nuh uhhhh. Look, this one is fuzzy and this one is serrated and this one is smooth and this one is bumpy, lol. He is going to be amazed when they get big enough to bloom.
Kristy, that's funny. Your hubby is getting quite an education. Can just see the two of you discussing the differences in each brug...he's just shaking his head!! LOL You can just about go batty looking at the likenesses and differences in them all. Have fun but it gets more complicated as your addiction grows.
He says if I cleaned house as much as I look at the plants checking the soil and leaves it would be spotless. Thats no fun! What could he be thinking, lol.
Definitley on your side, Kristy. Let the dust indoors accumulate but attending to my gardens is much more important in my eyes. Of course, keeping the weeds out of my garden isn't my strongest forte either, but admiring, sniffing and cooing over my brugs IS PARAMOUNT!!
Basic and concise. Will definitely use it as a reference tool.
so much.
"> 
I am already out there every day studying the leaves and going" Honey come look! This one is darker green or this one is serrated etc." I can't wait to see the different flowers. I guess some of the old reputation is still following it around is why I had such a hard time finding it but there are many more common plants that are poisonous. Its too bad but I am so glad I finally found them.