<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Arizona State Field Target Championship Match Report

January 21 2013 at 10:42 PM

  (Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Arizona State Field Target Championship & Grand Prix Match Report
January 19 & 20, 2013 Ben Avery Shooting Facility, Phoenix, AZ

[linked image]

Friday, 1/18/13 Prep day started out chilly and quite blustery. The concrete blocks that we now use to clamp the targets onto were all positioned, set and leveled in the weeks before. All the targets were repaired, repainted, adjusted during the past week and were ready to go. Just after the sun came up, I met Larry already at the range and we started putting the pre-planned targets in their assigned positions. Within a short time we were joined by Bobby, then Dale & Debbie, then Steve. It did not take long to place the targets, followed by setting up the sight in range. The food was ordered the week before, the score sheets were printed, the score board was pre-printed with the names of those who took the time to pre-register, and the porta potty was in position. Dale & Deb had done all the necessary shopping beforehand and we were officially open for business..at which point we packed and went to lunch.

The shooters started to roll in that afternoon with most arriving late and only a few taking advantage of the open sight in range while it was still light enough to see. Ben Avery personnel were kind enough to bring us a few extra trash barrels just in case we needed them. We hung out until late in the day enjoying the lull before the storm.

Saturday, 1/19/13 Day 1 had us at the range once again just as the sun was coming up. As with Friday, the wind was blowing pretty fierce and it was chilly. Debbie started to take late registrations while we started putting the strings on the targets. We cannot necessarily do this ahead of time due to the number of nocturnal critters roaming around. The herd of wild burros that frequent the area would take no time to tangle up string lines stretching across Dead Mans Wash. That being done, the sight in range was opened and everyone started on their pre-match preparation rituals.

We had 30 shooters in attendance, welcomed by clear blue skies, cool temperatures in the upper 40's to low 50's and WIND! Lotsa Wind! As was evidenced during the course of the match, it would shift direction without warning and was quite gusty at times. I kept hearing pleas of "turn off the wind machine", but by 11:00 it was subsiding and by 12:00 it was down to a light breeze, calm at times, and with temps up in the mid 70's. This felt pretty good to those who traveled from colder climates.

[linked image]
Leo, my shooting partner on day 1

We did our best to try to match up shooters that we felt would be most compatible with each other regardless of class. That worked out well in most cases, although I got stuck with Leo Duran. Geez, I never heard so much whining and bellyaching from one person...LOL. Just kidding. Seriously, Leo was a great guy to shoot with and we had a good time. I am surprised that he made some of the shots he did using a 12 fpe piston gun in that wind. The conversation and good natured jabs with other shooters that we passed going from lane to lane made the day most enjoyable.

The leaderboard at the end of the first day showed George Doganis with a fantastic 43 followed closely by Bobby Corcorran with a 41 in Open PCP. Bill Stevens had a 42 with Rick Eaton close behind with a 39 in Hunter PCP. Greg Sauve had a 4 point lead with a 30 over Donovan Taylors 26 in WFTF PCP. Some shooters felt embarrassed while others were humbled. It was a most interesting day of shooting.

I have to say the most delightful aspect of the day, and the entire match, as it turned out, was this little 10 year old butterfly flitting around, by the name of Natasha Brinkley! Just seeing her shoot alongside the big dogs, watching her innocence as she was checking out the desert flora and fauna, and the excitement conveyed as she assisted in drawing numbers during out annual raffle put a smile on everyone's face. She is just the cutest little thing, and papa James is justly proud of her and his other two sons, who were also shooting, and shooting well considering the conditions.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

As we trudged back at the end of the days shooting, after having been soundly beaten by Mother Nature, we were greeted to party platters mounded over with SUBWAY sandwiches, along with a wondrous assortment of chips, salsa, bean dip, cookies, brownies, etc. that were made by Deb. The hungry hoard attacked it with gusto, and it did taste good while basking in the warm sunshine in the middle of January.

Lunch was followed by our annual raffle. The proceeds of the raffle go a long way in helping to offset the cost of range fees and leases, insurance, new target purchases and all those other little things that crop up. Each year, AIRGUNS OF ARIZONA goes out of their way to donate items for the raffle. This year was no different. In addition to all of the pellets, there was an FX scope, two rifle cases, a Hatsan Dominator spring gun and an FX T-12 rifle. We are greatly indebted to AIRGUNS OF ARIZONA, and Robert Buchanan for all that he has done for the club and for supporting the sport of airgunning around the country. Thank you so much!

With Larry officiating the raffle, Deb took care of the tickets and was ably assisted by Natasha, Nicky, and Alex Brinkley...with enthusiasm! I dont ever think I will forget the number 462537. When asked...again...by Bill Tramel, Natasha called out 4-6-2-5-3-7. And when he asked again, she hollered "FOUR-SIX-TWO-FIVE-THREE-SEVEN!!!!" I was laughing so hard at Bill, who was teasing her that I failed to look at ALL of my numbers. That was when I realized that I had the winning ticket for the spring gun....and was then serenaded with a good amount of grief and catcalls from the peanut gallery for belatedly checking my ticket stubs.

[linked image]
Raffle winners.

[linked image]
Debbie taking a much deserved break at the end of the day.

The remainder of the day was made up of enjoying each others company, fine tuning (for some) on the sight-in range, or getting things ready for Sundays match completion. As the sun was going down, there were about 10 of us that were left, so we decided to head across the road to grab a bite. The conversation about the days events continued, being supplemented with topics from the four corners of the earth. I eventually made it home by about 9:30 and dont even remember my head hitting the pillow.

[linked image]
[linked image]
sight in line on day 2

Sunday, 1/20/13 Day 2. I could get real lazy here and just call it a repeat of Day 1. It started out about the same with Larry, Deb & Dale, Bobby and me getting to the range just as the sun was coming up. The only noticeable change was the wind seemed substantially less...by maybe 2 to 3 mph...LOL. After checking the strings and repairing some of them due to our nighttime critter escapades, we opened the sight in range where the masses were checking their dope and comparing it to the previous day. Mine remained the same; it was windy yesterday and it is windy today, so shut up and shoot.

We had two additional shooters today. Ric could not make it Saturday due to his job, and Nectaly could not make it Saturday because he blew the engine on his car coming back from Tucson. Fortunately these two guys only live about 3 blocks from each other, so a couple of phone calls set up a carpool. They rode together and were squadded together. It was a win-win for both of them because Nec is in need of an auto mechanic and Ric is one.

[linked image]
Ric and Nectaly

[linked image]
Wayne, my shooting partner on day 2

Fortunately, I got rid of my annoying partner from the day before (ROFLMAO Sorry Leo, I just couldnt resist.) and was paired with Wayne Burns today. Conditions did improve a bit today regarding the wind. Either that, or we were just getting used to it. Because of playing the terrain regarding target placement, we get different wind conditions at different locations. The wind blowing up or down the wash is deceiving because there is no indicator of its strength. The wind blowing from left to right at the shooting line is known, but watching the direction of the mirage at or beyond the target will show it blowing in a different direction. I misjudged far too many targets that way and was rewarded with splits. It is fun though being able to watch your pellet flying downrange with the right light conditions.

[linked image]

As for target placement, we used both sides of Dead Mans Wash for a number of the target settings. We had a woodpecker up in a tree about 12 feet completely exposed to wind whereas the other target was protected in a hollow of vegetation on the opposite side of the wash. We had 5 forced targets; 3 were standing targets and the other 2 were kneeling targets, each with two shots for the requisite 10% forced position to qualify according to Grand Prix rules. Standing targets in that wind had more than just a few shooters talking to themselves....constantly. At least it wasnt raining like last month or everyone would have been four inches taller due to the mud that clung like Velcro to the soles of your shoes.

[linked image]
Bobby C shooting his Steyr in competition. He listed his USFT on his registration form. Gotta talk to him about that.

At the end of shooting, Bobby "The Wind Machine" Corcorran emerged victorious, having shot a 44 for a match total of 85 and winning top honors. What makes it even more inspiring is that he doesnt need to use a harness or other paraphernalia, and he gets his edge by filling his bum bag with walnut shells and broken glass. Other guys that I have shot with tend to corkscrew themselves into their bum bags until their butt falls asleep. I know, cuz I have heard them snoring.

With all the scores turned in and tabulated, we ended up with two pair of ties. Turns out that Donovan Taylor made a comeback on the second day and tied with Greg Sauve in WFTF PCP, each with a total of 57. After battling it out in front of a crowd of cheering admirers, Donovan came away victorious.

Also tied with a 78 in OPEN PCP were Wayne Burns and Jorge Sanchez. After Don and Greg finished up their shootoff, these two guys entered the arena to face off against each other, with Wayne emerging on top. Each shoot off was an amazing display of marksmanship from top notch shooters.

Here are the scores:

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
The winners

We conducted the awards ceremony immediately after the shootoffs knowing that a number of folks had to get on the road to make flights or face the long drive home. We were honored to have shooters from Oregon, California, Wisconsin, Texas, Florida, Mexico, and of course Arizona participating. Everyone appeared to have a good time, friendships were formed, while others were reinforced. Thanks to all these shooters who took the time and expense to come play pellet games with us. We hope all of you enjoyed yourselves and found the trip and the match to be worthwhile.

We did have a few challenges on three of the targets. Larry and I went and checked them out and found the identical condition on each. The shooters stated that they watched the pellet hit the paddle without going down. Turns out the very top of the kill zones on each of the targets was struck several times at exactly the 12:00 position showing evidence of splits. This would cause the target to lock up but would spray the paddle with pellet fragments that would be visible, thus giving the impression that they hit. It was uncanny that all three targets showed the identical condition. The scores stood as posted and the match retained its 100 point possible thus qualifying for Grand Prix status.

No match goes without a lot of behind the scenes help well in advance to ensure that things run smoothly. Club President Larry Piercy spent time between Christmas and New Year, setting and positioning each concrete block to ensure that it was level, then plotted it all on paper to cross reference the target selection.

Deb and Dale Keiser (Treasurer and VP) took most of the targets home with them and repaired and repainted them. Deb baked cookies and brownies ahead of time and froze them until the match. They also did the shopping for other needed items.

Bobby Corcorran is always there helping. He gets there early and is usually one of the last to leave. After helping to set the targets, he and Dale go from target to target to double check function, visibility, and clear any brush interference.

Thanks to all the club members who assisted in the remainder of the set up, from sight in range to attaching strings and then take down and clean up after the match. When we left on Sunday afternoon, you could not tell that anyone had been there. THANK YOU ALL.

So with everything finished, the few of us that remained reconvened across the road at the local Chilis restaurant for one last get together, critique, and debrief before heading home. We came away with some ideas for timeframe and location of next years state shoot and the need for more targets along with discussing other club business. Although we were all tired, it is still tough to say goodbye until next month. I said it before and I will say it again; I am blessed to be a part of this group of wonderful people. Airgunners of Arizona is the best.

Respectfully submitted,

Mark Kauffman
Secretary, Intrepid reporter, iffy photographer, so-so shooter
Airgunners of Arizona

Here are a bunch more pictures from both days:
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Mark.in.AZ on Jan 21, 2013 11:29 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply


(Login jamdon)
YC

Mark I would like to thank you and your

January 21 2013, 11:21 PM 

Arizona crew for the warm welcome that I received and for a wonderful week-end of FT shooting under the most challenging conditions that I have encountered.....switching winds, mirages, long targets exposed to the elements and cleverly placed targets that used the natural features of the desert to make it interesting. What I found to be most interesting was the ricocheting sounds that the pellets made when they hit the ground or the targets.....reminded me of the old westerns I watched as a kid growing up happy.gif. It was great meeting the people behind the names that I have become familiar with from the forums.

Life is short...slow down and enjoy
http://www.activevacuums.com

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Donovan, it was a pleasure meeting you as well.

January 21 2013, 11:31 PM 

I am glad that you had a good time.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

Carl
(Login Pigzpellet)
YF

Great Stuff !

January 22 2013, 8:39 PM 

I think it's clear there are only winners when everyone shoots and has fun. Great job Mark !



"Thumper2"

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Thanks Carl. Where were you????

January 22 2013, 9:54 PM 

You should have stayed over on your last visit out here and joined us.

You would have had a ball.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   
George D.
(Login mgkd)
YF

Great Event!

January 21 2013, 11:58 PM 

Thanks to the Arizona Crew for the hospitality and putting on a memorable event!

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

We enjoyed having you, George....

January 22 2013, 9:55 PM 

....and we are glad you had a good time.

Hopefully, I will get to shoot with you again sometime in the future.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   
LARRY PIRRONE
(Login LARRYPIRRONE1)
YF

Amazing report

January 22 2013, 12:51 AM 

I don't know where you get the words. What a great event. I feel like i was there.

looks like a lot of great folks had a fantastic time.

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Ha ha ha.....thanks Larry.

January 22 2013, 9:58 PM 

Seriously, it takes a while to put my thoughts in order, but once I get started, it just sorta flows.

You missed a good one, but we WILL have others. We also want to get over and shoot with you guys in your backyard sometime also.

Thanks for the kind words.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login wheelsroller)
YF

I was there...

January 22 2013, 2:09 AM 

and this report makes it even more fulfilling! Great job, Mark. Thanks to all of you from out of state who graced us with your presence, skills and willingness to share your thoughts on the game. Having Greg Sauve state that this match was more challenging than the World's in Italy and Norway is a testament to the effort Airgunners of Arizona puts into all our matches. We definitely try to make it as interesting as possible while retain the flavor of the natural surroundings. Mark's pics will attest to that.

RicG


 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Yes, you were there.....

January 22 2013, 10:00 PM 

...and I am glad that you were able to make it.

I hope you had a good time. You actually got a chance to shoot after such a long time. I was glad to see that.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   
Ric Grassmick
(Login wheelsroller)
YF

I had a great time!

January 23 2013, 2:28 AM 


 
 Respond to this message   


(Login AngliaUSA)
YF

Thank you Mark + Crew

January 22 2013, 9:07 AM 

Great job on the course - very challenging indeed.

The kids and I all had a wonderful time and it was well worth the trip.

They are all still talking about the wind, and arguing about who held off the most and still knocked it down !

Tasha managed to bring home on of those nasty jumping cactus things to show her mother ....

It's loose now in the house somewhere ... so thanks for that ....NOT...... LOL wink.gif

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

I am sure you will eventually find the jumping cholla.....

January 22 2013, 10:03 PM 

....just walk around the house barefoot for a while....LOL

Thank you for bringing your "crew" with you. It was obvious that you guys enjoyed yourselves.

See you soon and thank you.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login HectorMedina)
YF

BIG CONGRATS!

January 22 2013, 11:44 AM 

Good shooting under extreme and difficult conditions.

And excellent organization is clearly in evidence.

GREAT report!

Congrats to all.

Maybe some day we can go to AZ.



Un Abrazo!




H�ctor

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Hector, we have a great team effort...

January 22 2013, 10:04 PM 

...and we all enjoy each others company. That makes it all worthwhile.

I look forward to when you and Veronika can make it out this way to shoot with us.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login dayjd)
YC

Looks to me like a nice place to play ....................

January 22 2013, 11:49 AM 

As usual great report Mark, and hats off to all the great shootin that took place. I gotta start saving for that trip! My duaghter had a time share in Sedona but I think she sold it.

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Bill, you are welcome to play in our sandbox anytime.

January 22 2013, 10:07 PM 

escaping the winter weather might be a welcome respite about this time of year....or any time of year. You will enjoy it.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Wackywayne)
YF

Another great event hosted by the AZ club! It's a looooonnng

January 22 2013, 3:49 PM 

way to travel from Oregon, but well worth the drive! I'm so enjoying ALL the friends in AZ, AND all who come to join in the fun there. I totally enjoyed shooting with Bobby C on Saturday, and Mark K on Sunday.... great folks and shooters for sure!

It's so good to see a Grand Prix event that has no difficulty in bringing in enough shooters! This club really has it together.

Like was said above, this was THE hardest course I've ever shot as well. It would be tough enough if there had been no wind... but, on both days, that wind would have to be classified as "Extreme" (for most of the days), which would add a factor of 1.75 (I think)... to a course already at 35 plus troyer. IF that is correct, that brings the average troyer to 61! Even if it's only a 1.5 factor, that would be a 52 troyer.

My only concern is again, like the CA state match, (another Grand Prix event, which might be the second hardest course I've ever shot), that most other Grand Prix events will not be even close as tough as these two. So, that effects the percentages of the shooters at those events.

The other problem with a course designed to "separate" the top PCP Open class shooters, is the extreme challenge presented for the other classes... and the very low scores that are the result. Of course, if this was not a Grand Prix event, there would be NO problem at all, except some newbie shooters might get discouraged.

It's a very difficult issue, that we need to consider. I've designed courses like this too, (not as tough, cause I lucked out with no extreme wind conditions), but close, and I'm now realizing that I might want to change my thinking on this.

There is no way to know how the wind will blow on a given day, and so, it's not easy to design a course that works for everyone shooting.... And the "Average" Grand Prix difficulty that would create a semi-level comparison for all shooters across the country.

I totally had one of the best times ever at a match. I really like that kind of challenge... I hope everyone else did as well:-)

Wacky Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range


 
 Respond to this message   


(Login dayjd)
YC

I hear what you're saying about the Grand Prix ........

January 22 2013, 4:57 PM 

being as close to equal everywhere. As I understand it you can shoot as many GP's as you want and use the best three scores. I would think that no one could take lst place as a GP overall winner with out the National being counted as one of the three. Maybe the Crosman event in the Northeast, Cajun in the Southeast, ROT in the South West, ect be required as "two must haves" in the Gran Prix circuit and then let the higgest 3rd score shoot at a GP event be counted. Unless it was inside there really is no way to make all conditions equal especially if you don't have the same class shooting the same course on the same day. IMHO!

 
 Respond to this message   
LARRY PIRRONE
(Login LARRYPIRRONE1)
YF

CASA is going to have a two venue season long

January 22 2013, 5:23 PM 

"Grand Prix" starting in april. this will not be an AAFTA GP event (our state match will not be in this series but WILL be AAFTA GP).

I will post here the format we will use. It may be adaptable at some future time for all AAFTA gp events:

1. All club members who paid membership by the April HR match can participate and be eligible for a full 8 matches. Anyone joining after april would not be eligible. This is a members only series. Anyone can shoot but not be counted in overall GP if not a member.


2. the series would run from April to September and would have 12 total matches. 6 at each venue.


3. shooters would apply the points for up to 8 of their best match placings. A shooter could apply fewer matches if he shot less matches but would be at a disadvantage. Someone would not qualify if all matches were shot at one venue and none at the other venue. The idea is to get people to try both venues. So, of the 8 matches (or whatever number of matches less than 8) at least two would have to be shot at Angeles and two at HR. So if a shooter only shot 4 matches, none would qualify unless two were shot at each venue.


4. points would be awarded as a percent of the class winner in each class/division. For example if the winner of a springer match at a venue shot a 38/44 or whatever it took to win, each shooter below him in his class would have his score expressed as a percent of the winner. The winner would get 100 points. If second place shot a 33 he would get 86.8 points for that match. points would be awarded to the 10th of a point. This system smooths out the difference in difficulty at each venue and for each shooting day because you are only being compared to the winners score at that venue on that day. the winner of a class/division always gets 100 points no matter how hard the course, and all shooters in his class that day get points based on how they do compared to the winner and not some arbitrary number of points assigned for a win or down line place. If there is only one shooter in a class that day he would still get his 100 points. All shooters in a match would receive points no matter how bad their place because at the end of the series even the points from a bad placing could be important and this would keep new shooters who are improving interested (maybe).

5. Awards would be a plaque for first place (top shot) in each class/ division. Other awards may be instituted.


6.. classes/divisions would be: Open pcp, Open piston, Hunter Piston and Hunter pcp.

OK, so the idea here being to create a situation where it does not matter how difficult the match is on a give day. It equalizes both venues in a sense.

This is what CASA is doing this year and it may be worth using as a model. I would like to take credit for the idea but this is how UK gp's are run i beleive and its not a bad idea.


 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

Wayne, it was a privelege to shoot with you.

January 22 2013, 10:11 PM 

I can't comment on the ease or difficulty of the course set ups. we shoot them this way and continue to challenge ourselves.

One of these times we might just set an easy course, then use 1/4" KZ target at 90 yards for the shoot off. First one to actually see the target wins....LOL

I had a great time shooting with you.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Airgunmanart)
YF

By the looks of it,, I missed a good one,,,

January 22 2013, 6:02 PM 

talking to Bill Tramel, you guys had a ball. Sure wish I could have been there.
There is always next time, until then ,practice, practice.

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

You might have missed the shoot, but you did get a "surprise" birthday party out of it.

January 22 2013, 10:13 PM 

That in itself is a viable excuse for not making it, although I think you would have really enjoyed yourself.

Next time.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Airgunmanart)
YF

Thanks Mark, you're right,

January 22 2013, 11:25 PM 

your only 69 once, I did have a great time with my kids and grand kids. But sure wish my son James could have been here. Duty Calls!

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login lhd)
YF

I had a great time

January 22 2013, 8:40 PM 

I did very poorly the first day, but came back to normal I think, on the second day's effort.
I didn't think the wind was so bad, it was them teeny weeny KZ's was the trouble.

 
 Respond to this message   


(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

LD, I can understand why the wind didn't seem to be too bad.....

January 22 2013, 10:16 PM 

.....it reminded you of your place.

It was good to see you again, even if I kept trying to give your medal to someone else. The font on those mailing labels is waaay too small and I just kept missing your name.

Glad to see that you enjoyed yourself.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login BRIng)
YF

Looks Great

January 23 2013, 6:13 AM 

Hay That looks like a great shoot . I am getting retired and hope to make it to some of the far off shoots . Hope to see you all down the road . Rick

 
 Respond to this message   

Mark Kauffman
(Login Mark.in.AZ)
YC

You are more than welcome to join us....

January 24 2013, 10:39 PM 

....anytime.

Retirement is a good thing. Someday (soon) I hope to be there.

Mark

 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Arizona State Field Target Championship Match Report
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
On line trajectory Plotter by Ray Carter On line trajectory calc by Brad Troyer    MILDOTS    BAR/PSI conversion
D I S C L A I M E R

This Forum's, moderators and administrators are not responsible for any problems that may occur from reading or using content posted on this forum, as they are the exclusive responsibility of two parties: the person who posted it and the person who acted on said posted information.Use of our forums by people under 18 years old is allowed only with legal guardian(s) present.

FORUM RULES BELOW

When you signed up you agreed to All N54 Rules.    1-No Flaming or name calling.No Personal attacks, racial slurs, foul language or insults and no trolling.     2-Instigating with the purpose of drawing people into highly argumentative situations and wasting of bandwidth is a cause for post deletion and/or banning.    3-Do NOT comment on Forum Moderation. It is what it is, live with it or leave. This is an immediate 30 day ban.    4-If you feel wronged email eagleaetos@yahoo.com    - Keep the forum Civil and behave in a socially acceptable manner.