Your opinion would be appreciated .....................March 19 2017 at 5:28 PM
|Bill Day (Login dayjd2)|
What do you think would be the easiest and cheapest change we could make to level the playing field for the HFT PCP and Piston classes???
Equipment does allow advantages and most likely always will, but what change do you think would make the most difference. Would appreciate just one answer from the list below but if you have other ideas please express them. There is no plan by me to ask for any changes but just curious as to what others think about this subject. Been a long winter!
1. Allow rangefinders
2. Allow higher power scopes like Open or WFTF
3. Allow clicking
4. Allow straight jackets
5. Allow attached bipods
6. Use 2 point for Kill or 1 point for face plate hit
7. Don't make the Hunter shooter go first all the time
8. Have a dollar value on air rifles that everyone could afford.(Example $1000)
9. No changes needed! We are happy the way it is?
|This message has been edited by dayjd2 on Mar 19, 2017 5:37 PM|
|March 19 2017, 5:58 PM |
Charter member of Over The Hill Gang
|March 20 2017, 1:44 PM |
a FLA I dont know....
Over the Hill Gang
|March 20 2017, 10:04 PM |
Charter member of Over The Hill Gang
No 2. And oh ya number 2. Nt
|March 19 2017, 6:18 PM |
|March 19 2017, 6:34 PM |
and everyone shoots sub 12 ftlbs
Eastern Suffolk competitive Airguners Association.
No dog in this fight but I say #2
|March 19 2017, 6:49 PM |
|March 19 2017, 7:35 PM |
My opinion is to leave Hunter PCP as is. I don't see 12 power max as a major issue considering how flat these rifles shoot. For me getting better at kneeling and standing would have a much greater impact on my score.
Piston guns are a different story. Most experienced shooters seem to set up their springers around 12 foot pounds which makes ranging at 40 yards and up pretty critical. 12 foot pounds combined with 12x ranging leads to a lot of frustration. I believe Hunter Piston would be more fun and better represented with the 12x rule gone.
Also, we all want the sport to grow and thrive. The start up costs of a pcp rifle, scope, tank or pump is daunting to many people who might otherwise take the plunge. Seems to me it might be an easier sell for a newcomer to start with a decent springer and a scope with enough magnification to provide accurate range finding. There is less money required up front, and probably more success early in the learning process.
"more success early in the learning process."
|March 20 2017, 3:38 PM |
And thats the key to growing the sport......
If folks dont drop targets from the FIRST time they hit the course they wont come back.....
Re:Your opinion would be appreciated .....................
|March 19 2017, 8:46 PM |
#9 It's two different classes. Why do we need to level the playing field. They DO NOT compete in the same class!!!
|This message has been edited by BradVanpool on Mar 19, 2017 9:38 PM|
#4, but no lobotomys, please......nt
|March 19 2017, 9:49 PM |
|March 19 2017, 10:38 PM |
Springers and PCPs are not intended to compete head to head. Leave the present rules alone and just boost the power in your springers if 12 foot lbs. is causing a problem for you.
Fred, This is nothing about Springers .............
|March 20 2017, 2:26 PM |
reading the question again and it still sounds like that...
|March 20 2017, 3:34 PM |
is exactly the question you're asking!?
Sorry, maybe my verbage isn't that good but ...........
|March 20 2017, 11:28 PM |
I was one of a couple shooters that wanted the Hunter springer shooters in their own class and not having to compete against PCP's. To me that's always been a No brainer. It took from 2006 to somewhere around 2011 or 2012 to get this change to the AFFTA rules.
|March 19 2017, 11:20 PM |
|This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Mar 19, 2017 11:21 PM|
|March 20 2017, 1:34 AM |
If you want to "level the playing field" against WFTF and Open shooters, 2,3,4,7 and don't allow sticks or buckets.
If you want to level the playing field against hunter shooters, 9.
If you want to level the playing field against me, go with 5 and I might shoot hunter again.
If you want to level the playing field against everyone, have your club buy a bunch of Marauders and make everyone shoot club guns at matches. Or we can all draw numbers before we shoot and figure out who the winner is.
I think you are confusing a "level playing field" with parity. A level playing field means that everyone has the same opportunity to compete within the division or class they are shooting in. So if we were boxing, the light guys wouldn't have to fight heavy guys, everyone would fight in the same weight class. That's what we have now. People that want to test the limits of precision of their equipment can shoot Open class. People that want to test their ability to dope the wind and hold a gun steady with minimal support can shoot WFTF. People that may not be able to sit on the ground or don't want to invest in a high powered scope or want to simulate what someone considers to be hunting equipment can shoot Hunter.
Instead of levelling the playing field, why don't we institute a handicap system. After 5 matches, you are assigned a handicap based on your score compared to the match high score modified by the Troyer rating of the course. Then we could have the class winners and the High Handicap winner. Of course, we will run into the situation where a mediocre shooter has a good day and beats a bunch of better shooters. But that's how parity works.
Seems like a lot of effort since the only match I know of that awards HOA is the Nationals. And the funny thing about the 2016 Nationals, the HOA shooter was in WFTF in both PCP and Piston. Same with the Grand Prix winners. Why did shooters that could shoot at 20 FPE wearing stabilizing harnesses get beaten by shooters using lower powered guns without harnesses? The same reason that Tiger Woods could beat me at golf with a set of rented womens clubs, with no driver and a baseball bat for a putter. You can give everyone the same arrows, but the best Indians are still going to win.
So I guess you need to add "Turn power down to 12 FPE" to your list if you want Hunter class to have a level playing field against WFTF. One is playing baseball and one is playing cricket, but at least their fields would be level.
Perfectly said, hit the nail on the head! NT
|March 20 2017, 10:28 AM |
Some of us cant get to 5 matches a year/season
|March 20 2017, 1:41 PM |
I agree that a handicapping "system" can help even things out, but how do you that EQUITABLY for the folks that cant get to matches all that often?
Let the Hunter guys the use "tools" they would use in the field when actually Hunting game critters. If "We" have a concern that the yardage info will be shared/observed/nooticed by the non-Hunter shooters, then squad the hunter guys together or squad them with non- hunter folks like me that'll probably never had a chance at a podium finish (thus it doenst matter if I find out the ranges or not
Single Digit answer: #2
edit: spelling, naturally.....
|This message has been edited by dan_house on Mar 20, 2017 2:54 PM|
So I guess you need to add .......................
|March 20 2017, 2:45 PM |
"Turn power down to 12 FPE" to your list if you want Hunter class to have a level playing field against WFTF. One is playing baseball and one is playing cricket, but at least their fields would be level.
Scott, It would only be level if Hunter class could use the big scopes and shooting jackets if they were required to shoot at 12ft'lbs against the WFTF class. Not to mention the equipment accuracy difference.
This isn't about changing any rules but just asking for opinions of what it would take to have a hypothetical level playing field in the Hunter class or at least that was the intension of the question.