A note to the match directors/reportersApril 3 2017 at 5:45 PM
|BillinOregon (Login BillinOregon)|
I have absolutely no right or even standing to criticize anyone who has anything at all to do with putting together a match, or reporting results. It's a big job done for love, not money.
I will say, as someone very curious about and interested in field target -- just as in the long-range muzzleloader and black powder cartridge rifle disciplines -- I and others like me get a great deal of pleasure and useful information out of reading match reports that include rifle model, scope model and pellet used.
I realize that for a harried match director doing a thankless job, taking the time to put this detailed information in tabular format and posting it on the internet is just one more complicated burden compared to taking a photo of the winner board and scores, but know there are potential shooters like me who greatly appreciate the equipment lists.
Please do not mistake this as criticism; my thought is just to let you know there are people out there like me who are hungry for this information as a practical guide to learning what gear works.
Thank you for all you do!
+1 ... nt
|April 3 2017, 5:50 PM |
Some MDs make "Quick Posts" because readers complain if they don't...
|April 3 2017, 8:29 PM |
You will find that when the detailed match report is posted here, it will be among the most comprehensive you will ever read.
There's no pleasing everyone. Patience.
Thanks for comments
|April 4 2017, 10:06 AM |
Fortunately we now have another guy in our group who has taken on the job of the match report. Larry has done a great job for while now. it is a substantial amount of work to compile all of the info and I am happy to hear that some people like to read it all. We try to include equipment and course layout along with target info. Our weak point sometimes is pictures which many times someone else attending our match takes the time to do and posts them. I personally like to see the course layout in pictures rather than shooters in their positions or getting awards but it is all good. It is very interesting to see what others around the country are doing.
|Ronnie Easton Match director in Sacramento|
you make some good points
|April 6 2017, 7:12 AM |
but not every shooter wants his equipment posted on a public forum. nor do they want their picture taken and posted either. sometimes its all about privacy in the day of the inter net. as match directors, it is our responsibility to insure the privacy of individuals at the club or range.
the object of the game is to win the match. not show everyone else how to.
|This message has been edited by Thumpman1 on Apr 6, 2017 7:14 AM|
Ronnie, I hate to rain on your parade, but.....
|April 6 2017, 12:47 PM |
....winning a match is a nice aside from the friendly competition and camaraderie that makes up this sport. It is nice to win, but it is not all-encompassing. We are not making big bucks or depending upon this for our livelihood. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy winning as much as the next guy, but I also enjoy seeing someone excel that has done their homework, and practiced to get better.
Sharing what we do and how we do it helps this sport continue to grow. If it were not for the sharing aspect, then why bother writing a match report?
As match directors, reporters, photojournalists, enthusiasts, designated scribe or whatever else folks want to call us, we have a responsibility to our club members, if not all the forum readers, to help them learn the sport to become better shooters. What better way than to relive the match through the eyes and ears of someone who was there, and for the enjoyment and entertainment of the reader.
Other shooters like to see what equipment is being used. Sponsors and manufacturers like to see if their equipment is being used and how well it is being used. Shooters get to know each other, across the country, through the pages of the various forums. It is all good and helps to expand the sport and entice new shooters to want to try this "game".
If all of this secret information is held close to the vest, it will die with us when we die.....and so will the sport. Besides, when new shooters start to edge past our scores, it gives us some incentive to get better ourselves.
Just thought I would offer a slightly different viewpoint.
.....and to Bill in Oregon, thank you for noticing.
Secretary, Airgunners of Arizona Field Target club
|This message has been edited by Mark.in.AZ on Apr 6, 2017 12:49 PM|
+1 Perfectly said. NT
|April 7 2017, 6:19 PM |
|Ronnie Easton Match director in Sacramento|
funny you say that Mark
|April 7 2017, 9:04 PM |
i can rememnber you mentioning privacy in your match reports back when.
spare the lecture though please. helping shooters is all i do. however, i do not remember anyone on this thread helping me when i needed it with my club. i on the other hand have attended each of your clubs and have helped with setting up your courses but got no reciprocation from either of you three.
perhaps you haven't noticed, and if ya did, i haven't herd from you giving praise, but are quick to judge on the slightest thing here on my post. i am running a local Regional Grand Prix for the shooters here in the Sacramento area so they don't have to travel long distances to compete. we give back all the money to the shooters in the way of awards and prizes. i don't see anyone posting here on this thread ever doing that. instead, they keep the profits for their own club
funny how these same people want to pick apart someone who is obviously doing wrll for the air gun community.
have a nice day gents
|This message has been edited by Thumpman1 on Apr 7, 2017 11:37 PM|
I read your match reports.
|April 7 2017, 10:25 PM |
They are fine. It shows that you are doing a good job keeping the interest up at your club and in your area. Good local participation is important and difficult to achieve. Keep it up.
It's normal for interested people to want more.
Ronnie, my response was an observation and not a personal attack....
|April 7 2017, 11:40 PM |
"the object of the game is to win the match. not show everyone else how to."
That was the only comment that I took exception to. The wording may have been inadvertent, but it came across probably a lot different than you had intended. You followed that up with;
"helping shooters is all i do"
I think the second statement is what you originally intended to convey, at least I would hope so.
You host matches and post match reports regularly and are trying to grow your own club. That is admirable. We are all trying to convey the positive aspects of shooting Field Target in a gentlemanly fashion, attempting to entice new shooters into the growing ranks of the participants, and to teach them how to do it. Most of us have a lot more experience in the shooting sports, but the newbies may have limited exposure to that. My previous comments were directed toward them to let them know that the majority of those shooting this game are more than willing to assist them in learning, lending equipment, sharing their knowledge, and making them feel accepted.
At one point in time, I used to list the full names of the shooters, but in the recent past that has been shortened to just first name and last initial. That was for the privacy issue that you correctly stated.
I can only respond to your comment on match fees by saying that not all clubs are blessed with an established "home" club with property. As such, we (and I am only talking about Airgunners of Arizona) need to pay lease fees for the venues that we hold our matches. Ben Avery range charges the club $6 per day per shooter. On top of that, we need to secure liability insurance ($1M / $2M Aggregate) that costs the club $1200 annually. We would prefer not to have to charge anything, but some things cannot be helped.
Your response seemed to indicate that maybe you thought this to be a personal criticism against you. Not the case. I only wanted to disagree with your quote, listed above, and to clarify my reasons for disagreeing with it. In light of that, I can only hope that you see that portraying our sport in a positive mode is what is most important in our attempt to continue to draw new shooters to our ranks.
|April 9 2017, 10:11 AM |
People helping people with similar interests! Airgunners are a great group of folks most of who will go out of their way to help newbies. I see it first hand everywhere I've shot. Unlike the1000yd bench rest crowd there are no secrets here. Just people who want to have fun and help others.
Thank You. Privacy is scarce these days.
|April 11 2017, 7:32 AM |
I'm one of those guys that doesn't like the loss of privacy imposed on us by the internet. To those MD's out there that understand, thank you.
The net has some creepy aspects to it. I can understand how one might feel that if you show up at a public match, you're in the public domain. If someone is saying that they're not responsible for my loss of privacy, that's fine. What I'd hope those that hold that view would understand is that it's better to respect conventions that maximize everyones privacy that operating as though it's hopeless, so why even try.
Another good thing about match reports is that often
|April 13 2017, 3:12 PM |
times us shooters don't even know how we did at our own match against the other competitors until the match is reported. Without match reports we would only know our own and shooting partner's score who is probably shooting a different class.. That really takes the fun out of it.
|April 6 2017, 3:06 PM |
Most field target matches are public events. It would be hard for someone to remain anonymous when competing in a public event. But I would redact someones identity and equipment info if they requested it. And personally refrain from taking their pictures.
Here are the results of our last match with all names and equipment removed:
1 - 48/48
2 - 14/48
1 - 45/48
1 - 45/48
3 - 43/48
4 - 41/48
4 - 41/48
6 - 40/48
7 - 39/48
8 - 37/48
Good on you Cuz
|April 6 2017, 4:54 PM |
Me, I'm kind of in the middle, sometimes waanting to write everything, but generally finding it mostly too diffictult. I like to post the names of competitors but often don't KNOW their last, or sometimes even first names. Powerplant TYPE (spring, or pcp is important), but I don't set much store in the exact model gun, since so few are stock anyhow, but like to know the scope model. I think pellet model and weight are not really very important, unless the barrel type is known, but few mention barrel. I avoid going theu the exercise of posting equipment specifics if the info is unkown for several entrants.
I have always felt it rediculous to compare scores of one mtch against those of another, since about every match is different due to location, weather, and course peculiarities. A guy takes first at his home course and is only midpack at one a few couties away .... but by looking at who was there and recalling the conditions of both, one can know who did what IF they were there!
I'm a poor photo taker, nor can I post them easitly, though I LOVE when others take photo's of matches I hold and post them under my our results.
So, the true emjoyment factor derrived from READING results pales alongside BEING THERE!
Let's keep in mind that manufacturers have run competitions in the past...
|April 8 2017, 7:47 AM |
Last year, Crosman ran a nation-wide, non-AAFTA competition for people using Crosman airguns. Can't really do that if equipment lists and competitor names are kept secret. Crosman has not continued this year, but who's to say when it might resume? Or some other manufacturer might do similar?
For the most part, participants should expect that matches shot in public are in the public domain.
|This message has been edited by MB-BOB on Apr 8, 2017 3:27 PM|