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I krytok that good?

September 27 2017 at 6:05 AM
Josh3rd  (Login josh3rd)
YF12

Reason I'm asking is because I see it posted a lot and would love to try it. Is it put everywhere that you would put only? How about on the spring like they do with tar? Where does one get it and how much should be applied?

If anyone has some for trade plea let me know.

Today I'm going to let my rifle (prosport) sit in the sun and do my best to shoot in consistently and repetitively to see if it was the heat that made her go squirrelly. Since I was about a third of the way through the match, should I repeat the amount of times that I shot it as well? Say 20-25 times?

And I know that with everyone's input so far that I will find out the issue, overcome it and prevail.

I really am grateful for all of your help

 
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Kevin
(Login kevinkunkle)
YC

Re: I krytok that good?

September 27 2017, 8:45 AM 

No. It is not the choice of the Top Piston Shooters in the Northeast.
Ask Nathan what to use.

Kevin
The Legend

FBD

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Who's Nathan? NT

September 28 2017, 9:14 AM 


 
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Leo G in CT
(Login gonzav71)
YF12

Nathan Thomas uses Super Lube

September 28 2017, 12:58 PM 

Josh,
Super Lube is available at Walmart. It costs much less than Krytox and you get a lot more of it.
Even though I use Krytox, I wish I used Super Lube instead since it would have saved me several tins of pellets.

I did shoot at the Penn State Match and dealt with the same frustrations as you did. I used a Walther LGU.
Mike Harris set up a very difficult and challenging course with a lot of long distance targets (+50 yards downhill in the dark) and lots of small kill zones (3/8") under 20 yards. In addition, tricky winds were present that day.

Everything you are experiencing is normal for a springer. Shooting downhill is another issue. Shooting at 12x is another issue. Many of them can be overcome with more practice and shooting more matches.

Regards,
Leo


    
This message has been edited by gonzav71 on Sep 28, 2017 3:25 PM


 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

True that Leo. Nt

October 6 2017, 8:44 AM 


 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Yes, for me Krytox GPL205 is better than diesel prone molly paste and tars!

September 27 2017, 10:22 AM 

"Is it put everywhere that you would put only?"
Krytox GPL205 grease and GPL105oil "space station lubes" are "one lube fits all" and it's used for all my springer lubing.
EJSxLJ4h.jpg

"Where does one get it"
Amazon........
https://www.amazon.com/krytox-gpl205/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Akrytox%20gpl205
Ebay.......
https://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=krytox+gpl+205&_sacat=&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_sadis=&LH_CAds=&rmvSB=true
And a lot of other places. I usually get mine from here.......
http://store.tmcindustries.com/Krytox-GPL-205-Grease-2-oz-tube_p_18.html

"how much should be applied?"
Unlike molly paste which needs to be applied very carefully to minimize dieseling and the inconsistent velocities caused by dieseling, Krytox is very forgiving since it woun't diesel at all even if it gets in front of the piston seal. For my initial "Krytox trial" several years ago I bought a 1/2 ounce container, lavishly slathered all the internals of my R9 with the stuff deliberately getting some in front of the piston seal.........no dieseling even with the first shot! Matter of fact, after the rather heavy lubing of the R9 internals (after stripping the old "dinosaur grease" based lubes) I still had this left over from the 1/2 ounce tube.......
XCgzCBFh.jpg
Still....after the initial "test for dieseling" even though the application isn't critical I use a light application (not as light as molly paste) because the stuff is expensive. Pics showing the amount of Krytox used ...........
2gbPqo0h.jpg
aI9sZmLh.jpg


As a side note, you mentioned in a different post that you sent your ProSport in for a de-twang. Krytox will not detwang a springer with loose spring guides, only properly fitted tight spring guides will kill spring oscillations/vibrations/twang. Hummm.....I guess that is copious amounts of "heavy tar" like this were slopped on the spring the twang will go away for a while..........
49r76NWh.jpg
Petroleum based lubes do outgas with time getting thicker with age and I've seen springer internals where the pastes & tars literally became semi-solid.
The tub of heavy tar in the pic had thickened in the sealed tub to the point that a socket head cap screw could be held at the rim with only a few half threads embedded in the tar.

Bottom line......traditional molly bearing lubes and application techniques have been used successfully for decades so no harm/no foul if you go the "dinosaur grease based lube" route!

 
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K
(Login Knobs)
YC

Of course, there's the flipside.

September 27 2017, 11:28 PM 

Remember back when I was fooling with O-ring seals?

Do you recall when I lubed the crap out of my O-ringed piston with dinosaur based lubes to the point that every shot filled the barrel with blinding smoke & the gun still shot accurately, was not temp sensitive, and had a very small ES?

I lubed with an obscene amount of grease. Cherished urban ledgends never happened.


K


 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

LOL.......my experience with dinosaur grease and my .177 R9..........

September 28 2017, 8:31 AM 

is REVERSED using traditional "molly paste and tar" that wasn't shooting with "blinding smoke"! Hummm........I wonder why?

Decades ago I tuned my .20 cal R9 using "molly paste and tar" and accidentally got some paste in front of the piston seal. With the first shot over the chrony there was a mighty bang and the chrony read a .20 Beeman FTS clocking 1120fps over the sensors. The piston rebound from that explosion broke a coil of a brand new Maccari Tarantula spring (30 coils? of .128 wire wound with a .540 ID).

LOL....with "dinosaur grease" it normally took quite a few shots to stabilize the poi after the gun set over night but with the "space station lube" the poi is stabilized with just a couple shots.

Anywhoo....since switching to Krytox several years ago my diseling issues were eliminated, temperature induced poi shifting greatly reduced, I don't need to be nearly as fussy with Krytox application, and so far after a few years Krytox hasn't thickened with time like my tub of heavy tar.......
Q2gK841h.jpg
49r76NWh.jpg

Anywhoo.....whatever trips a tuner's trigger is fine with me, even if it's molly filled bear grease and 'possum fat, but I'm sticking with Krytox which works better for ME than "molly paste and tar" which was the original question! wink.gif


    
This message has been edited by SpringerEd on Oct 6, 2017 8:14 AM


 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Thanks Ed. Nt

September 28 2017, 9:17 AM 


 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

So are you supposed to

September 28 2017, 10:55 AM 

use the grease or the oil?

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

Grease everywhere except for cocking lever linkages that.......

September 29 2017, 8:58 AM 

I don't want/need to disassemble.......for those areas I use the oil.

 
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Mark
(Login TwiceHorn)
YF12

The Other Thing

September 27 2017, 7:23 PM 

About Krytox, that Ed alludes to, is that it doesn't take very much. If you are experiencing POI issues, it is conceivable that your ProSport is "over tarred" or greased and in warm weather gets kind of "loose" compared to cool weather. Krytox goes a long way toward eliminating that aspect of temperature sensitivity.

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

When I was first testing Krytox GPL205 I left my Krytox lubed .177 R9 .........

September 27 2017, 9:26 PM 

with oring sealed piston cap in my unheated sunroom overnight when the temp dropped to 27 degrees F and chronied the gun in the morning. The next night the gun was indoors at room temperature so I shot a few CPLs over the chrony as soon as there was enough light to get a reading and I was surprised by the result. The velocities difference between 27ish degrees and 72ish degrees was only 5fps and surprisingly the higher velocity was at 27ish degrees.

Since the velocities were identical for all practical purposes I knew that if there were "temperature related poi issues" it wasn't due to the oring sealed piston cap and Krytox lube.

 
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Paul Porch
(Login paulporch)
YF12

Ed, is it possible the higher speed from the 27° was because the barrel metal

September 27 2017, 9:39 PM 

shrunk a tiny bit, making the pellet tighter in the barrel. This more pressure generated .....?

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

No scientific proof, just an uneducated hunch.

September 28 2017, 7:58 AM 

I personally think that the reason is that cold air is denser than warm air so a few more "air molecules" get compressed when the springer is shot. Over the years I've noticed that I get a bit more velocity shooting in the cool air in the late fall than I do in the hot humid air of summer. What threw a monkey wrench into the mix was when I was lubing my R9 with molly paste and spring tar. The tar (especially "velocity tar") did/does change viscosity with temperature changes and if used in excess causes variations in piston acceleration which affects the poi. I can say the same thing about the old design thin edged HW parachute seals where the piston seal lube and the durometer of the seal itself fluctuated with temperature shifts. I have found that with my .177 R9 the new design thick edged HW piston seals perform so close to and oring sealed piston cap for all practical purposes since the sealing edge is rounded like an oring and the base is reduced to lessen "piston seal to receiver drag". This is assuming that the HW seal is a good fit to the receiver to begin with. I have a couple different new HW95 piston seals in my parts bin and found that they vary considerably in diameter. When I tuned a new HW95 for a friend I found that his piston seal was very loose in the receiver, however a new seal from my parts bin fit perfectly.
XX8uJiMh.jpg

Anywhoo.......a 5fps (or even 10fps) variation in velocity is insignificant when I'm shooting! wink.gif

 
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Josh3rd
(Login josh3rd)
YF12

Yeah that's what I was figuring

September 28 2017, 9:28 AM 

Because a leap of about an 1inch vertical (guess) at 25yds from its initial zero of 25yds and a outside temp of 88-90° is incredible so I'm assuming it had to be the tar. But I have the rifle out in the sun now

 
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Bob D.
(Login MB-BOB)
YF

I think I'll start a list...

September 28 2017, 8:32 AM 

of all the reasons why I no longer shoot springers. That way, when I get that snide tease, "I don't know where the community air tank is, I don't need no air tank" then I can retort, "OK, well at least I don't need a witches brew of tars, bacon greases and bicycle chain lubes..."

Sorry guys, just had to offer some fun...
[linked image]
www.DallasFTclub.org


    
This message has been edited by MB-BOB on Sep 28, 2017 8:34 AM


 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

LOL.....I've heard more than a few PCP shooters explain that...........

September 28 2017, 8:52 AM 

"I can't shoot a springer" so they prefer to put up with buyin'/pumpin' air, countin' shots', the necessary "life support system" and not bein' able to shoot if a 10 cent oring goes bad! The real reason for choosing a PCP (as I see it) is the simple fact that they're easier to shoot accurately than a recoiling piston gun and I'm thinking that the PCP is inherently a more accurate platform since there is a lot less motion!

Using Krytox I also "don't need a witches brew of tars, bacon greases and bicycle chain lubes..." since one lube that doesn't stain black or dry out fits all. Hummmm....I THOUGHT that the purpose of the "bicycle chain lube" for a springer was only to lube pellets. Don't you lube pellets for your PCP? wink.gif

 
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Bob D.
(Login MB-BOB)
YF

"Don't you lube pellets for your PCP? "

September 28 2017, 9:18 AM 

Nope...
[linked image]
www.DallasFTclub.org

 
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nced
(Login SpringerEd)
YF12

LOL.....do you feel wierd? ;) nt

September 29 2017, 8:59 AM 


 
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