Hector Medina or anyone who really knowsSeptember 28 2017 at 9:13 AM
|Josh3rd (Login josh3rd)|
can you tell me about the true click value again in a different or simpler way. I know to put the target at 27yds 4 feel and 2 inches. Shoot a group then dial 40 clicks, shoot another group. Ok, Hector you said then divide by 40. What do I divide by 40? The distance between both groups? And then that gives me what each click equals at that distance from me to target? Sorry for not understanding.
Deep breaths... Deep breaths...
|September 28 2017, 9:44 AM |
You've already asked this question in your thread below. If no one other than Hector has chimed in yet, it might be because the distinction over 40 clicks this way or that matters only to a few people.
If you are shooting your 15fpe Prosport in Open Class
, then I suppose splitting hairs over this might make a difference. Although I know several Open Class shooters of national repute who don't care. They only care that at a given magnification and distance, X number of clicks brings them to zero. Whether X = 26, 27, 29, or 32 clicks doesn't matter. It's about what works as a practical solution. In contrast, trying to fit your aiming into a rigid box of mildot standards (instead) can lead to problems.
If you are shooting your 15fpe Prosport in Hunter Class
, then I will suggest it doesn't matter in the least. Consider your reticle as a visual representation of "Aiming Points." Just aiming points, period. The exact measurements between mildots or christmas tree lines doesn't matter at all. Through practice, practice, and more practice, you will develop a hold over chart for distance at this aiming point, another holdover (aiming) point for the next distance, etc. Knowing the exact number of clicks between mildots, or whether your scope is a "true" mildot or milradian yadda yadda, is not remotely important.
I have personally counselled several shooters to free themselves from the angst over mildot science. Necessary for 1-1/2 mile shots on military targets that shoot back. But not at 55 yds on Killer squirrels. Once they begin to consider their reticle as an "aiming point" grid only, they seem to enjoy the game much more.
There's something profound in that old KISS adage, "Keep It Simple, ......."
|This message has been edited by MB-BOB on Sep 28, 2017 9:55 AM|
BobD you dont even know how much stress you just relieved
|September 28 2017, 10:43 AM |
Thank you. Maybe I just look into it too much. It just irks the heck out of me that the heavy price of an Air Arms Prosport, scope and mounts and all the trouble one goes through to prepare their scope for competition or for whatever reason and stuff just goes wrong for whatever reason after shooter error is ruled out. But anyway thanks for the relief
If misery loves any company...
|September 28 2017, 10:53 AM |
Then I'll share. I stepped out of my PCP box, and shot a loaned Prosport (AFAIK 15fpe) at a "Springer only" match here in Texas last October. Embarrassed to say I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.
Beautiful rifle. Just to untamed for me, I guess.
Lol, good one. NT
|September 28 2017, 11:38 AM |
|September 28 2017, 11:57 AM |
What Hector is driving at is finding the source and degree of point of impact shift from your scope rather than advocating knowledge of the precise mathematics of your scope clicks and mildots for any other purpose.
On the 40 click thing, he suggests figuring out how much your crosshair actually moves over 40 clicks and dividing that distance by 40 to determine whether your clicks really are 1/4MOA or 1/8MOA or otherwise. Do this at 40 degrees and again at 80 and you have an idea what kind of contribution temperature makes to your POI shift, if you are clicking as in WFTF or Open.
Same basic idea with the mildots for Hunter. Figure out what they actually span or subtend.
As Bob notes, none of this is necessary or even particularly helpful to generate a good holdover chart. Actually shooting the distance and noting the drop, measured by whatever your dots or hashes or other stadia gives you is the way to go, if you have the distances to shoot. Same for bracketing to range targets. Doing it at different ambient temperatures would seem to be the key to figuring out temperature-dependent POI shifts. But, without doing what Hector suggests, you won't know what your scope's contribution to the shift is.
Or I could be completely wrong. That's never happened before.
That was/is simplicity at its finest. Thank you. NT
|September 28 2017, 12:39 PM |
Thanks Mark. NT
|October 6 2017, 8:43 AM |
|September 28 2017, 2:08 PM |
In an earlier thread, you said you were shootinng in a "HFT" match. IF you really meant an American Field Target match "Hunter Class", there is no need to get very intimate with the exact amount of poi movement at different ranges per so many clicks, since turret adjustments are not allowed in the Hunter Class. Ideally you have a multi-point reticle, and its THIS you need to become VERY familiar with, learning where to hold for each distance.
Myself and most other Hunter Class airgun method generally "zero" at the opogee of the trajectory since it allows one to hold over for any target closer or farther than the zero point and there will be a generous amount of yards before or after the zero distance that will also only need a dead on hold. No double zero, or hold under like firearms guys use.
BTW, pls don't get in the habit of calling Field Target Hunter class" "HFT", since HFT is a much different game played in UK with much different rules than what we play here in Field target Hunter class. For instance, one is not allowed to adjust ANYTHING on the scope durig the match, and NO shot may be taken from a sitting position. Simply "Hunter Class" is better.
Got it LD, ty. NT
|October 6 2017, 8:41 AM |
Scope clicks are
|September 28 2017, 6:49 PM |
Seldom what the mfg publishes.
My NIghtforce 36X Field Target scope are published as 1/8 clicks they are actually 1/7 clicks. My Burris scopes are also 1/7. This is helpful data for ballistic programs accuracy.
The web site A-Team has instructions on how to find true click value of your scope. It's very easy and accurate.
Ray Appels also shows how to find "true height of scope" above barrel bore. Another point of data that improves provided data into a ballistic program.
Josh, it's Yom Kippur's eve tonight, so I've been busy, apologies
|September 29 2017, 8:49 AM |
Bob D, Mark, and LD are right.
I understand your frustration and I apologize for not being clearer.
In reality what matters is what matters to YOU.
Since, as LD says, in AAFTA's Hunter Class FT you are not allowed to click, you ONLY need to know how many clicks you need to move ONE DIVISION in your scope, that will help you get zeroed with one shot, if you are steady enough.
So, set your targets at the 1000" mark (27 yds 4' 2") set the scope to zero and then click up 40 clicks, measure THROUGH YOUR SCOPE IN DIVISIONS, and now you KNOW how many clicks/division at 12X your scope has.
That's all there is to it. If the first shot lands 2½ divisions left, or right, or up, or down, you will KNOW how many clicks to correct to get Zeroed.
Now, in springers, I would not start correcting before the 20th shot has been fired. I take to the range a little baggie with 20 "plinking pellets" that I use to get the internals up to "working conditions". THEN I start zeroing.
EVENTUALLY, you will start getting interested in what is the relation between scope divisions and sizes (dimensions) way out at the target, because this is what bracketing is all about. But for the time being, as Bob D says: breath, relax, get USEFUL information; and enjoy the trip.
Hope this clarifies somewhat all the mess.
Keep well and shoot straight!
I don't mess with "clicks" because the hunter class doesn't allow "clicking on"
|September 29 2017, 8:53 AM |
and a sitting squirrel usually doesn't allow enough time to "click on" either, or even read a "dope sheet".
I'm a hft odd-ball for sure because I use the same HW95 or R9 setup for all shooting being hunting, plinking or hft so my scope is set up to be "clicking and dope sheet free"............
When I was using a rather large/heavy Optisan Viper here's the setup I used for all shooting.....
Anywhoo.....perhaps not the best way to sort out the holdover based on "sharp focus" but it's quick & easy to use plus I don't need a dope sheet. The "down side" is that the marks on the AO or side wheel are good for only the gun, scope & mount used for the setup. Still.....with the 12x hft limitation it's adequate for my all around purposes.
I know one is not allowed to click in hft
|October 6 2017, 8:38 AM |
But since something was really off, I was allowed to see what my issue was so once I found out what needed to be done to correct it, I then was allowed and made the necessary adjustments. So therefore I explained my adjustments I made to you members. So now we can forgo all the "you cannot click" comments. But thank you none the less.