Well for me, it goes back further before the things you have mentioned.... Adam and Eve to be exact.
ALL mankind was condemned under their disobedience and ALL mankind can feel that condemnation that comes from Sin & Death.
COMMENT:As we progress into this discussion, I will try to share what I believe along the way... I believe that Adam and Eve became SINNERS when THEY broke the commandment of God. I do not believe that I became a sinner when THEY did that. I became a sinner when I BROKE the commandments of God. I was not 'condemned' when THEY sinned. I was not put under the penalty of death when THEY sinned. THAT happened when I SINNED. (Caps are for emphasis and clarity, not shouting)
I do agree that condemnation comes from sin... for me, that would be my PERSONAL SIN. Not theirs... And, death is the wages I earn when I sin.
Char>>"So when I say LAW....
I am referring to the LAW of Sin & Death.
Comment: Okay... When you say 'law', you are referring to the law of sin & death... I understand that, but tell me... what has that to do with those who refer to being 'under the law' today? Do they mean the same thing?
Thought: What would I have to do to be 'under the law'?
Char>>"NO 10 Commandments were given yet, no Mosaic Law... Just simply God's commandment to Adam and Eve. The one that brought about the Law of Sin and Death.
Comment:Well, I agree... partially... There was no 'Mosaic Law' yet, but... I believe that the 10 Commandments were ALWAYS in force, from the very beginning, and really, I don't understand why anyone would not believe that.
Is there any clear reason why anyone would not believe that?
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