Sandy, I combined this reply with the one for the message titled, By The Way
Re: Sabbath keeping Sandy (Login AmConvinced)
I would have to add to those questions, if the Sabbath Day
is not the same thing as the 7th Day written about in Hebrews chapter 4
that God even desired for the Israelites to enter into as well.
And if not then, what is the difference in the two?
Because I keep what is written in Hebrews chapter 4 today. Seeing the two
as being the same thing for all that abide in Christ as He abides within
them, their no longer walking under the law of ordinances that is.
I know Phil that you do disagree with me on this. But I also know that I
have never asked you to explain the difference between the two before
Sandy, You know I love ya like a sister, but, no, I don't agree on this
popular understanding of Hebrews Chapter 4. --I would try to explain it to
you, but I'm not as adept at writing as I'd like to be, so, please forgive
me for 'cutting and pasting' a brief explanation from one of the Church of
God publications as a response to this part of your post.
Does Paul Say That We Decide Which Day to Keep Holy (Romans
At first blush, Romans 14:5-6 seems to say that it makes no difference to
God which days we keep holy. Actually, these verses do not concern any
days that must be kept holy. This is proved by the context of the
Paul admonishes the saints at Rome to receive the "weak in the faith" and
not to sit in judgment of them (verse 1). Some of those recently converted,
not yet having grown strong in the faith, refused to eat meat and
subsisted mainly on vegetables.
The apostle explains why in another of his letters. Most of the available
meat in the city had been offered to idols. Some Gentiles who had been
converted and come out of idolatry still held some superstitious beliefs.
They thought that idols actually had power over their lives. Therefore,
"some, with consciousness of the idols," ate meat "as a thing offered to an
idol" (I Corinthians 8:7). Paul assures them that "we know that an idol is
nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one" (verse 4).
But why does Paul break into his discussion about eating or refraining from
eating meat to mention "esteem[ing] a day"? Notice the answer from within
these very verses:
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day
alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the
day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the
Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he
gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat,
and gives God thanks. (Romans 14:5-6)
Not only were some weak converts afraid of eating meat offered to idols,
but others customarily abstained from a particular food - they practiced a
kind of fast on certain days, much as devout Catholics abstain from meat on
Friday. Others regarded all days alike as far as eating was concerned.
The whole matter involves abstention from foods on particular days.
"To eat or not to eat" is the question at hand. Paul is not referring
to God's Sabbath or holy days at all!
Jesus says that we should fast before God and not be seen or let it be
known by others unnecessarily (Matthew 6:16). But Jews and Gentiles both
practiced semi-fasts on particular days of each week or month. Though
divided on the matter, the Jews customarily fasted "twice in the week"
(Luke 18:12) and on specific days of certain months (Zechariah 7:4-7). The
Gentiles also were of various opinions over when to abstain from certain
foods. These things are mentioned in Hasting's Encyclopedia of Religion and
In God's sight, it does not matter when one abstains or fasts, but He does
care whether we do it in a proper attitude and for the right reasons (see
Isaiah 58). Paul wants the brethren to live at peace with one another and
not argue or judge each other over their human opinions, which he calls
"doubtful things" (Romans 14:1).
The Bible elsewhere teaches very plainly which days God made holy and
commands us to keep holy. They are found in Exodus 20:8-11 and Leviticus
Sandy, the majority have been misled to think these verses are granting
them the FREEDOM to worship God as they please... on any day, and in any
way... that is simply not true. God never gave up his sovreignity or His
authority to tell us How and When He is to be worshiped. I've preached
this for years on this board and hardly anyone gets it. Please, no
offense, but I hope that this response will serve to help you see the
differnce you were asking about, and why I don't agree with the popular
understanding of Heb. 4. --Please study it prayerfully along with the
scriptures involved and ask God to help you see what the context is
Also, am not saying to pick one day out of the seven to rest
is wrong either. Just saying that what took place finally with those in the
wilderness was not what God desired for them entirely either.
Also when considering what did happen there, when the law was brought to
them. What was brought to begin with, may not have been what was brought to
them finally. As the first time that Moses came down from that mountain,
when he saw what was going on with the others, he threw the tablets down,
breaking them up, did he not? So we don't know what was on the first one
God did give to Moses either, do we? Maybe it was the same, and maybe it
Sandy, you already know how i feel about the idea of 'picking one day out
of seven'.. I don't believe that God gives, or has given, that kind of
'freedom'... but I sense that you 'might' not think that what Moses brought
down the second time, from the mount was the same as what God wrote on the
stone, the first time.. is that what you think? Sandy, Things like that
can only serve to add to the confusion that we already have to struggle
with, so, let me comment... All the thunder, and all the lightning.. all
the smoke... all that was to get the peoples attention! And then, before
Moses went up, GOD SPOKE TO THE PEOPLE!! HE Spoke to them and told them
what He wanted them to hear! They were scared and wanted Moses to speak to
them instead... the whole point of Moses going up there was to get what
God wanted the people to have, His Ten Commandments in written form. It
doesn't make sense that God would allow that purpose tobe thwarted by Moses
I don't know why I have considered what did happen there.
But have wondered about it for a long time, whether what God did finally
give to Moses for the second time, was the same thing He wrote down to
Sandy.. Why would He allow Moses to get angry and throw the original
tablets down, (breaking them), and then allow him to come back up the
mountian, carve something 'different', and then take that
to the people?? That would not have accomplished what God wanted to do. I
don't think for one minute that God would have allowed Moses to 'add to' or
'delete from' or, 'change' what He wrote originally. Perhaps a very
careful, and prayerful reading of those passages will allow God to answer
this point for you. Please let me know what you find out. Phil Barnes
*What about the "Holy Ghost"?