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In the 'garden' man's human spirit was at one with God's Spirit...man had His Spirit indwelling fully within him...As God Spirit IS immortal...with man having God's Spirit fully within him...he too would not see death...nor could he....we had the presence of ETERNAL LIFE--God-life--through God's Spirit.
...until man sinned...transgressed God's command... and because God and sin are not compatible....God removed His Spirit from man and therefore mankind was doomed to decay and death...as God warned and promised...'you will surely die'.
In the same way...God removed His Spirit from Christ on the cross...basically treating jesus as a sinner (even though of course his character was perfect in every way)...but only then could Jesus die as a man...as Adam did.
As usual I am probably not being clear...but trying my best to explain what i believe.
is NOT the same as a soul. The Bible teaches that "there is a spirit in man and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding" (Job 32:8) which God did not give to the animals (e.g. Job 39:17). "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of man which is in him" (I Cor 2:11). This 'human' spirit imparts the power of intellect to the human physical brain.
It is not some immortal soul that most modern christianity teaches.
I'll note something one of my Witness friends told me ...
We use but 10% of our brains ... the other 90% would seem ideally suited to an existence much longer than our current limit.
As well, one example of how genes don't necessarily have to dictate decay and then death is that of sea turtles. They don't "age", therefore, there's no reason they would ever have to die, except for disease or accident.
To the inevitable question of "wouldn't the earth become too crowded", lol, I would think that God had a plan for that. There are several in the OT, Enoch being one, who did not "die" a physical death, instead simply being taken up. I would think the original plan included a progression of sorts as man aged and wisened, to the "next level" so to speak. Even in the New Testament it speaks of the saints, whom I would presume are watching us at this very moment ... not to be confused with most of the rest of us for whom the grave awaits.
The problem I have with straying too far from the words of the Bible on this one, aside from it proving itself over and over again in other contexts, is that we face quite a dilemma of having to read metaphor into a whole lot of it if we take this approach. I'm not sure that's warranted in this case.
Re: So my take on was mankind orginally immortal....
July 6 2006, 10:28 PM
God first
Beloved gerard (the watchman)
God loves us all
I too used to think the spirit left when Adam sin but now I think it die that very day and Adam spirit of life, light, and truth became a spirit of death, darkness, and lie
like a dead brain cell the cell is still there but of no more value to the brain
We became children of this world unless we were over shower by God's light until Christ came in our life to turn the spiritual light back on
I believe Jesus Christ spiritual light never went out but we let his body be kill
But at the same time, the same also happened to both the heart and or soul too, which in turn brought forth the body of sin as well. Right? I say that because of what is written in Ez. 36:25-30, as well as what is written in Rm. 6:6 concerning the body of sin being destroyed as well.
But then I go by what God says, and not what I believe, or would like to believe myself. Because what I believe, or want to believe is true doesn't mean diddley squat.
But we do need to be logical too. So if the light went out, and darkness came in and took over, then how can the light be there anymore? I don't believe it is Roy. And here is the scripture as to why I say it isn't there anymore, thus being like a light bulb, just needing to be turned on again.
2 Cor. 4:
6. for God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
That seems to be saying He has to shine the light back in, rather than turning it on because it is still in there to begin with.
And apparently we are all lost until this takes place. And will continue to be lost if He never does this at all.
But when does He shine that light into the heart. And what is our spiritual heart also. Which has to do with my question I asked you earlier tonight.
It also says in the scriptures before verse 6,
3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lrod; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake.
6. for god, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of god, and not of us.
8. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair:
9. Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10. always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made maniest in our body. (Rm. 6:6 concerning destroying the body of sin)
So the question is Roy, what is the heart?
Then when does God shine this light into that heart?
I am seeing something here I have never seen. But I don't believe I am to say either.
We think of heart as being some bodily part that causes the function of the body to stay alive of course. But this isn't what the Bible is referring to when it speaks of heart of course.
So Roy, I am interested in what you come up with as always.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
But at the same time, the same also happened to both the heart and or soul too, which in turn brought forth the body of sin as well. Right? I say that because of what is written in Ez. 36:25-30, as well as what is written in Rm. 6:6 concerning the body of sin being destroyed as well.
Yes sin came in and the body and soul begin to die
you added
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But we do need to be logical too. So if the light went out, and darkness came in and took over, then how can the light be there anymore? I don't believe it is Roy. And here is the scripture as to why I say it isn't there anymore, thus being like a light bulb, just needing to be turned on again.
first what needed to make light was still there but the fire of light was turn off until Christ came in to turn it on
you added this verse
2 Cor. 4:
6. for God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
like a electric light that you make a sound that turns it on So my the act of you acting Christ in your heart God tells the light to turn on just the power of God to speak things into being like he did in Genesis
yes we are lost until we are taught enough to reach for truth then we are lead into the light by God’s loving hand whether God uses words wrote down or other people he leads us to the point he speaks into us turning our light on
you ask
But when does He shine that light into the heart. And what is our spiritual heart also. Which has to do with my question I asked you earlier tonight.
the second we confess Jesus Christ has lord in our heart the heard of our brain- mind were ideals come were the heart of spirit is planted in the heart of our soul brain like a child as grown from the womb the spirit grows from the heart of our soul the heart of our brain
more of 2 Cor 4 you quoted
It also says in the scriptures before verse 6,
3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(Christ = image of God – we were image of God but that part die in Gen 3 – Christ in us = us as image of God a new) (the blinded us in Gen when we trick Eve and Adam into sin)
5. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake.
6. for god, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of god, and not of us.
8. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair:
9. Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10. always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (Rm. 6:6 concerning destroying the body of sin)
you ask
So the question is Roy, what is the heart?
The heart is the heart of the mind were we de-side to believe and made Jesus Christ Lord in our life . The place the heart of the spirit is planted as a ideal first then the ideal becomes a fact which turns it on by the power of God now it’s a truth
you ask
Then when does God shine this light into that heart?
the second we know in our soul heart what we read or heard about God and Christ are truth and you know which truths because there are lies out there too
you said
I am seeing something here I have never seen. But I don't believe I am to say either.
Will tell when you are ready my friend because God teaches us in parts we are ready for
you added
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We think of heart as being some bodily part that causes the function of the body to stay alive of course. But this isn't what the Bible is referring to when it speaks of heart of course.
while the many hearts of the soul keep the body alive – the heart that pumps blood the heart of the brain and there must be other hearts of things
I was taught that the center of the brain is called the heart of it and its like the CPU of the computer or some what but I never look it up in medial terms
Roy: the second we know in our soul heart what we read or heard about God and Christ are truth and you know which truths because there are lies out there too
Sandy: That cannot be correct Roy. Because if I am reading 2nd Cor. 4:3-4 says, he has to shine the light in there first. Otherwise our minds remain blinded completely no matter what is preached, or how much we read Gods Word. Because without the light shining in at all, what has been said or read is useless until this takes place according to what I read in those scriptures anyway. Something to consider anyway.
I think if you will read what I shared about this also at Bible Open, you will see just because He shines that light into our heart, that the light has not taken over completely within there yet, darkness still remaining. And will remain until it does take over according to the Word of God. But this is just an initial shining in so that it can take over later once that person receives the light that has been brought to them initially. Atleast that is what I see after looking closely at this Word concerning this, then considering what I believe God has revealed to me additionally as well.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
Yes the second we know to the point it is a fact but not the second we first hear but the second we make what we heard a fact
2 cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
Unless we preach Jesus Christ unto them in love to the point they listen then believe
look the truth is the light
the truth of Jesus Christ and God must be taught first then they either believe or not
Its not onced the light of truth is shine in but when we believe and the more we see truth the brighter our light grows
Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
by putting old man and putting on the heart of Christ or turning from fleshly ways to spiritual ways
2 Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
1 Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
once the light of Christ is turn on old ways pass away as you become more like Jesus the Christ or has your light brighting up my more truth
darkness can not last out light so the brighter your light shines the less darkness is in your life
now I do not have all the answers but I hope this will help
What you wrote there I agree with entirely. The scriptures proving all of it out as well.
Another scripture the Lord impressed upon me to share that varifies what your saying about
all needing a preacher, one that is sent of God of course, is written in Rm. 10:
14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THEM THAT PREACH THE GOSPEL OF PEACE, AND BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!
16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For E-sa'-ias saith, LORD, WHO HATH BELIEVED OUR REPROT?
17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Which proves what your saying.
But Roy, there are many that have gone forth that have not yet been sent of the Lord Jesus Christ anyway. Because of not being sent by the Lord yet. Because He has to know someone first in order to send them. And for this to come to pass, they must have not only entered in thru that strait gate, but also found the way that leadeth unto life as well. Which is why Jesus said what He did in Mt. 7:15-23. Many that have been led astray by the false prophets of today. I believe I was one of them, just as many more have been too.
I had a dream once years ago, that told me just that. But it also promised freedom from those as well, by the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of this dream.
In my dream, I was in this city. And in this city, everyone was running around, yet really getting nothing done except to have a good ole time themselves. Because in this city was a carnival type affair going on. And at this carnival, there was this ride that was pulled by dogs that went outside of the city, and up on this high hill that was right outside, then back down it on the opposide of the hill, then back into the city proper itself. So I got on this ride, going up the hill, then back down. And as I reached what looked like the main downtown area of the city, this great big huge dog that was standing on the curb reached out and grabbed my leg, biting me. But suddenly there was this man that beat that dog off. And that was the end of my dream.
Now, my interpretation of that dream now anyway, was simply that I was following false prophets, as were many others that allow the dogs, which is the opposite of God of course, to pull them around. And they would pull us up out of the city onto this high hill. The high hill represented a false blessing that didn't last. Because once you come down off of that hill or high, you are right back where you started from, the dogs or devil biting you once again because of being back in the world of the dogs or false prophets basically. But since Jesus Christ is the only one that can deliver us, bringing us into His righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Once I received the Word concerning this, those dogs never had a place in my life from that day forth, nor can that Big dog bite me either. Because if He tries, He will beat Him off just as He did that day. Because he has no part of lot with me anymore, as long as I look to Jesus Christ, whom of course was the man that beat that big dog off then.
Was the city the New Jerusalem? I have considered that, but no, I do not believe it was. Because of what was going on there at the time, everyone running to and fro. It represented what was written in Revelations chapter 17, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Also, another dream I had a long time ago as well, not long after I had repented, and received the Holy Ghost baptism as well, I had this dream about this man that I dearly loved. And in this dream we married, but after the marriage ceremony, as we were leaving I told him I had some things I had to do, but I would be back to begin to live with Him later. And we parted then, waking up then. Or at least that was the end of the dream anyway.
Both dreams bothered me for a several years. Because I knew they were from the Lord. But also warnings of a type too. To reveal to us where we are at with Him basically. I also have often had dreams about scriptures. Which happened to me this morning somewhat. Dreaming about the scripture I was to share with you concerning your being right about someone having to preach to us first. Then as someone does preach, the Lord shines the light into the heart, and that one receives or rejects it.
Plus also what to share with somebody else today too.
Anyway, I did return, and the Lord and I do live with one another now too. And also understand the meaning of both of those dreams now too. Well, most of it anyway, unless God adds something to them I have not seen yet.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
Jesus had to experance death as a man....so Gods Spirit not cable of death could not join him in that moment.An yet even the grave had to spill Him out as the great fish did Jonah...on the third day.
Yet I sense Jesus was a great light even in the grave....ministering to those before his time as in Noahs day...when darkness dwelled in the land.
So death came before the grave to all of Adams children and so will life come to all of those that are born of Christ....for greater is he that is within us...than he that is of the world.
Shall we always give glory to that seed that fall to the ground and died...that much life should be brought forth....
Greetings to all!
Was Adam created 'immortal'? hmm...
There was a time when I had a struggle with thinking that man might have been created 'immortal' in the beginning...
But, now.. I realize that Adam and Eve were created 'mortal'... they were created to live within a certain range of years and as they lived, they would do as all of us do... they would get older and eventually die.
That part about "..eventually die..." is what I call a 'key point' to understanding what was going on in the Garden.. What was God trying to accomplish? Was he just 'playing in the mud', or was He creating a 'potential family'? I feel that He was creating a potential family. And, giving the mortal humans a chance to live and experience the 'free moral agency' thing was crucial to the plan... They had to be taught what was right and what was wrong and given an opportunity to face temptation - hopefully with them choosing the right way over the wrong way. And, IF they failed, then they would simply, and surely die.
In the Garden were many fruitful trees, probably all with fruit that was desirable and pleasant to the eyes... In His efforts to TEACH the Man & Woman what was allowed and what was not allowed, God told them that they could eat of any tree in the Garden... EXCEPT the one in the midst of the Garden,-- the one that God pointed out and said "thou shalt not eat of it!"
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:....
Like a good parent would teach their children not to touch a hot stove... Like a good parent should, God was careful to instruct His children and to warn them not to touch that particular tree! He told them why...
Gen 2:17 ... for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Here, God the great parent, told His children that IF they ate from this particular tree, they would SURELY DIE! --- "eventually die" --"surely die" Two different things!! About this key point: IF they were OBEDIENT to their Parent, then... [and only then], was there a possibility of them AVOIDING the eventual DEATH that they were programmed to experience...
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, ...
When I was struggling with the idea that Adam was made immortal, I had not considered this verse... and, those who were teaching me and trying to lead me into their fold, were either very careful not to discuss this verse and/or to make sure I was set up to ASSUME that what this verse says only applied to Adam AFTER he sinned.. But, it was from the beginning... he was given only a limited life span... why? Well... because 'immortality' is just that: IMMORTALITY! If Adam had been given immortality to start with, HE COULD NOT HAVE EVER DIED!
God is the only one who has Immortality... He is the only one who has it to give! That's why God doesn't hand it out to just anyone... that's why all who want it, must go to the source to get it!
"this mortal must put on immortality.."
That's why the serpent's discourse with Eve is so important!
God said "you shall SURELY die"... and the serpent told EVE.. just the opposite! "You SHALL NOT SURELY DIE!... " -- One of these two beings was LYING! Which one do you think it could have been?
Adam & Eve were created MORTAL. with a limited life span... EVENTUALLY they would get old and DIE..
However, within God's PLAN, there was a possibility of AVOIDING that eventual end... It was the fruit from the TREE OF LIFE!
The key word was "IF"! IF they were obedient to God and IF they were able to reject the serpents temptation ... THEN.... [and only then] .. would God give them to eat from the TREE OF LIFE! That would have changed the whole picture!! Eating from the TREE OF LIFE would have given them IMMORTALITY and then they would NEVER DIE!
Their 'eventual death' would never occur! They would SURELY LIVE!!! But, as we all know, they failed! They eat from the wrong tree and their 'eventual death' BECAME A CERTAINTY! Their physical Death was SURE!
She bought his lie, as they say, "hook, line, and sinker".. And, they SURELY DIED!
That wily serpent, LIED!!! He has lied about everything!! He has told multiple millions of lies to multiple millions of people!! Everyone is deceived about something!!!
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:....
Those who call themselves "christian", have multiple ideas and multiple doctrines and multiple this and multiple that!!! Everyone has different views and everyone thinks that they are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG! WHY??? There has to be a REASON!
This, again, is a product of the original temptation! The serpent not only tempted Eve to eat from that deadly tree -- He also tempted her to think that SHE HAD THE PREROGATIVE TO DECIDE WHETHER
TO OBEY GOD OR NOT! That she had the "FREEDOM"
to make up her own mind what was right and what was wrong! Just like millions of sincere Christians today have been taught to believe that they "are FREE from the law", and that Christ's death gave them the "Christian FREEDOM" to decide what sin is...
Friends, it is not the "original sin" that has been passed on down from generation to generation, but the "original temptation" that has been passed on down. And, along the way, all have fallen for it!! All have sinned, because all have either not known what SIN IS, or because they were taught that THEY could decide for themselves! All have sinned because they have been convinced of satan's limited defintion of good and evil!
All have sinned and fallen short of the GLORY of GOD!
Have you ever wondered what that "GLORY" is? That "GLORY" that they have fallen short of???
IMMORTALITY!
When Adam and Eve sinned, they fell short of that glory! They fell short of being allowed to EAT from the TREE OF LIFE and from receiving the same, unending, UN REVOCABLE ETERNAL LIFE that God has!!!
That other TREE, the TREE OF LIFE, represented the acquisition of LIFE that cannot be taken back! That is what it means to be IMMORTAL! God alone hath immortality--- But it was His plan to SHARE that same kind of life with His children!!!
In a sense, Adam's sin delayed that plan. But, God was ready!! God had already foreseen the possibility of Adam's failure, and He had prepared 'a way' for mankind to be redeemed... Christ is that way!
Rev 13:8 ...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Part and parcel of that Great Plan, was the sacrificial death of God, the Son. In the beginning, the Word... was with God, and WAS GOD... they were two God beings... both equal and both immortal.. But, the PLAN called for one of them to give up His life as a God being, and to BECOME a HUMAN BEING...
It called for one of them to become the Father and the other to become the SON!
It was the creation of the GOD Family!
The Plan called for the son to live a perfect life and and DIE as a sacrifice to cover the sins that had temporarily delayed the Plan of God. The PLAN to make Man immortal like His Creator! The Plan to share that GLORY with the children of God!
The serpent hated that plan, and still does!! He hates it because that plan is set to give MANKIND rulership over him! That serpent- satan the devil - wanted to ascend above the clouds and BE LIKE GOD! HE wanted that fruit from the TREE OF LIFE, but is wasn't intended for him!!! So, he set out on a plan of his own! To deceive and destroy as many of God's children as he possibly could along the way and to make God look as bad as he possibly could in the process!! He tells lies constantly and the MAIN LIE is still the ORIGINAL LIE! "thou shalt not surely die"... The serpent has convinced the majority that they have an 'immortal soul' that cannot die!!! The majority believe that there really is no such thing as DEATH... only separation! The LIE and the LIAR are alive and well on planet earth! And, the resulting confusion has everyone deceived about something..
So, no... I don't believe that Adam had the Spirit of God dwelling in him... I believe that he would have, ..he could have... IF he had been allowed to eat from that TREE OF LIFE.
But, we all know that God PREVENTED Adam and Eve from getting to that TREE!!!
Why? Because God only gives His Spirit to them that OBEY HIM.. They had their chance to OBEY and they chose to disobey! God cast them out!!!
God HAD to cast them out of the Garden and bar the way to that TREE, or Adam and Eve would have gained immortality and would have become 'immortal sinners'!!!
The temptation was like that TREE... a MIXTURE of truth and LIE!!!
Think on what the serpent told Eve:
First, the LIE: "Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Mark that one up as a PURE LIE!! The exact opposite of what God told them!!
Now, the TRUTH [but even here, the truth is mixed with a lie]
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. "
Many have taken this as a pure lie, but not so!! God confirmed that PART of what satan told Eve was the truth!
"...ye shall be as gods..."
God said, "Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, ..."
Yes, that was true.. but how?
"...to know good and evil.."
The serpent not only tempted Eve, he put into her mind, HIS IDEA of what is right and wrong! His limited view of what is 'good & evil' ... so, in taking of that forbidden fruit, Eve [and Adam] BECAME as one of the Godhead.. 'to KNOW GOOD AND EVIL'... God knows good and evil - But, there is a difference! His definition of it is different from the limited definition satan espouses...
God had a plan - to teach man the TRUE DEFINITION of good and evil and to bring them to the TREE of LIFE and make them immortal!
The serpent had a plan as well... he wanted to teach man the limited definition of 'good and evil' and have them then take of the TREE OF LIFE and live forever... as ADVERSARIES to GOD!! ! God thwarted the serpent's plan when he cast the man and woman out of the Garden!
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
"So he drove out the man...". That sounds like the man didn't want to go! It sounds like there may have been some resistance to the idea of not living in the Garden anymore! God put them out and then moved swiftly to BLOCK the way to the tree of Life so the man would not be able to acheive immortality in his sinful state! How serious was God about blocking the path to that tree???
"...and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. " !!
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Adam & Eve were driven out.. out into what we might call 'the real world'... outside the Garden, where we all live.... and Adam had to WORK to make a living! He had to till the ground and make his own way... just like us! And, yeah... you guessed it!!... Adam surely died!
what your saying then is God created all men to be sinners! Yes, Adam was created a mortal man made of the dust. But I do not believe God created all men to be sinners at all. Yet my Bible says all men are born in sin basically in different places. So if this is true, your philosophy seems to be saying that God created all men to be just that, sinners. Because all men born after the first Adam are sinners are they not? And that I just don't believe God did, even though He did give them a choice to either obey Him or not to obey Him. Same today for us too. Mainly because of what is written in James1:13. Because temptation does not come from the Lord. So how in the world could a creation of Gods be born in sin? Well, the only way is obvious Phil. They were born after the first Adam that partook of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, disobeying God, and the seed of sin was thus planted within mankind that grew from there, putting all the rest of mankind into bondage to sin within born after the first Adam.
We really need to use some reasoning about this Phil, along with considering what the Word says.
Which really explains also the mystery of our being born again too. Except the opposite begins to happen then, by God doing away with the old seed that brought forth sin within our hearts and lives, making us a New Creation in Christ Jesus. And this is done by obedience to His Word concerning the foundational principles of Christ as well. Because those principles are for the putting to death of the old nature that grew from that seed of sin to allowing the New Nature, which is Christ Jesus to take over completely within the inward man so that the outward body of sin can also be destroyed as well.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
Sandy Says,
>>"so essentially Phil...what your saying then is God created all men to be sinners!"
God created all men to have a choice. Adam and Eve had a choice. God, the good parent, warned His children.. much like a good parent would attempt to warn their child about running out into the street without looking both ways. IF the child heeds the warning, and obeys the parent.. then they have a greater chance of living.
Sin is not a disease that is passed on to the next generation... All have sinned, not because they were 'infected' with sin, but because, like Adam and Eve, they ALL have broken the Ten Commandments.
Sandy>>"Yes, Adam was created a mortal man made of the dust. But I do not believe God created all men to be sinners at all. Yet my Bible says all men are born in sin basically in different places. "
"born in sin" - I can't find that phraseology in my Bible. It may be that you are using a translation where that phraseology has been inserted. Anyway, We are ALL born into the same world. A world where ALL have sinned... we are born into a world that is full of sinners... I believe that is what such phraseology would mean... if it were in the Bible. I do not believe that we are 'born sinners'... or "to BE sinners"... But, all have sinned.
We are all born to have a choice: Life... or Death. God wants us to choose LIFE... but, ALL have sinned and will keep on sinning until He intervenes and brings His Kingdom and His RULE back to this earth and begins to re-educate the people.
Sandy>>"Yet my Bible says all men are born in sin basically in different places. So if this is true, your philosophy seems to be saying that God created all men to be just that, sinners. Because all men born after the first Adam are sinners are they not? And that I just don't believe God did, even though He did give them a choice to either obey Him or not to obey Him. "
Before a person can say no to sin, they have to know what sin is. This WHOLE WORLD is deceived! Rev. 12:9 - And, if one doesn't know what sin is, then avoiding it becomes impossible. It's like walking across a mine field. If you know where the mines are, you have a greater chance of not stepping on one. But if one has been convinced that the mines have been de-fused, then caution becomes unnecessary... one walks ahead with confidence and then... BOOM! The modern churches of today think that Jesus came here and de-fused the mines. They think He came here and got rid of the problem that was causing the sin. They think He de-fused the LAW.... They don't believe God's definition of sin - 1 John 3:4 - they think that sin is anything THEY feel would be contrary to what God wants... and how do they find out what God wants? They ask their priest, or minister, or they reason it out and decide for themselves.
I'm sure they are sincere and that they really do want to please God.. But, the words OBEDIENCE and LAW have no place in their vocabulary... They have been taught that Jesus did it all, so they don't have to. With the law [ten commandments] safely out of the way, [they think].. they press ahead by making their own guidelines... problem is, they keep stepping on those mines and reaping the wages of sin! God did not create men to be sinners. He created them to be like Him and to reap the blessings of righteousness. But, when one doesn't know what righteousness is, or what sin is.. it's almost impossible to live in one and avoid the other!
God created mankind to make a choice to obey Him and to achieve the goal of IMMORTALITY! But, so far... all have sinned and fallen short of that goal!
Sandy>>"Same today for us too. Mainly because of what is written in James1:13. Because temptation does not come from the Lord. So how in the world could a creation of Gods be born in sin? Well, the only way is obvious Phil. They were born after the first Adam that partook of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, disobeying God, and the seed of sin was thus planted within mankind that grew from there, putting all the rest of mankind into bondage to sin within born after the first Adam."
Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
The same devil that tempted mother Eve, is still here today! He and his henchmen, the fallen angels, [now considered demons] are on the job 24/7 - spreading the same lie that was promulgated in the garden!
Telling everyone that they are already immortal[that they have an immortal soul] and that there is no law to define sin. They are told that they, the people, have the "Christian Freedom" to decide how and when they want to worship God. They are told that they can 'reason things out'... that they can decide what sin is and that Jesus lived that perfect life... obeyed all those commandments.. so they would not have to. They are told that Christ gave 'two commendments' - somehow replacing or superceding the TEN. They are told that Christ will come in and 'take over'... relieving them from the responsibility to do what they can't possibly do! They are told that God knew they 'could not obey' that law.. and that the real reason He gave it was to prove to them that they 'could not' keep it. If one is convinced that they 'cannot' do something, then, why try? Why make the effort?
The devil has deceived the whole world!
Sandy>>"We really need to use some reasoning about this Phil, along with considering what the Word says."
Respectfully, I ask, "who says?" That is the problem.. too many want to 'consider what the Word says" and then 'use some reasoning' about it.. Could it be that the serpent told the same thing to Eve?
Sandy>>"Which really explains also the mystery of our being born again too. Except the opposite begins to happen then, by God doing away with the old seed that brought forth sin within our hearts and lives, making us a New Creation in Christ Jesus."
"The old seed"?... I reject that belief.. the one that pictures 'sin' as a 'seed', or as a 'disease'- or even as a mutation of the DNA.. that passes on down to the children... somehow making them guilty at birth... sorry... I don't buy it! I am not guilty of anyone's sins but my own. - and neither are you! Disobedience to the Ten Commandments of God is what makes one guilty of sin. The only way our own guilt can be done away with is through REPENTANCE, the application of Christ's blood, and the FORGIVENESS of those sins! And the sins that will be forgiven are OURS. Not Adam's & Eve's.
Sandy>>"And this is done by obedience to His Word concerning the foundational principles of Christ as well. Because those principles are for the putting to death of the old nature that grew from that seed of sin to allowing the New Nature, which is Christ Jesus to take over completely within the inward man so that the outward body of sin can also be destroyed as well."
I believe that our nature, [the 'old nature' as you put it] , is a result of all the things that we have lived through since day one.. all that and the multitude of temptations we have experienced.. the totality of who and what we are.. yes, it is a 'sinful' nature. But, not because it was handed down, or inherited from our sinful parents.. but because WE have sinned... WE have fallen short of the glory that Gad wanted us to achieve...WE are the ones who have disobeyed and broken or 'transgressed' the law... And, as far as the New Nature goes... I don't believe that Jesus will 'take over completely'.. that would be a 'possession'... I DO believe that when one repents of the sin that so easily besets us, and is baptised, then God will hear and forgive those past sins. I do not believe that He will then enter and 'take over'... I do believe that the forgiven person is then 'begotten' with the Holy Spirit and made a child of God.. and from that point on, they have the help and encouragement of God and Christ through that Holy Spirit... they are 'begotten'... but not yet born
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
..just as a little baby must spend time in the womb, developing until the time comes for the actual BIRTH. That birth will take place at Christ's return, at the Last Trump. The 'dead in Christ' will rise first and then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds. They shall meet the Lord in the air... My Bible tells me that when this occurs, that glory.. that immortality will be given and that birth will happen...
then the thing that God had planned will happen and we shall be what He intended us to be...
...but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Phil: God created all men to have a choice. Adam and Eve had a choice. God, the good parent, warned His children.. much like a good parent would attempt to warn their child about running out into the street without looking both ways. IF the child heeds the warning, and obeys the parent.. then they have a greater chance of living.
Sin is not a disease that is passed on to the next generation... All have sinned, not because they were 'infected' with sin, but because, like Adam and Eve, they ALL have broken the Ten Commandments.
Yes, they had a choice Phil. But my bible says essentially that since then all men are born in sin in Ex. 20:
5. though shal not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Yes that says something about these people hating God. But that means that if any one of them did so thru the third and fourth generation, iniquity would be passed on that far. So do you believe that it possible not one person in 4 generations is not going to hate God, thus sin not being passed on? I don't. another scripture that says something similar to that one is written in Ex. 34:
7. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the childrens children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Again this same thing is said, even though God does show mercy and forgiveness to many here.
Then once again it says in Num. 14:
18. the Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Can you tell me that not one of your forfathers for 4 generations back never sinned, therefore their iniquity was not passed onto you? I cannot Phil. Particularly in light of what is written in Rm. 3:
23. For ALL HAVE SINNED, AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.
So therefore, we all have sinned. Why? Because what Adam and Eve began has been passed down ever since then throughout all the generations up to this day according to what I read written in the scripture here. We just do not want to believe that something was actually passed on down throughout all those generations that caused a seed of sin to be birthed within everyone of us that was planted by their partaking from something the Bible calls a tree. A tree that planted this very seed to begin with. Which has to do with the mystery of iniquity I was talking about previously Phil.
Oh but gee, how could such a one like me have this? I am so perfect. Well my friend, David even knew better ever so long ago by what he said in Ps. 51:
5. BEHOLD I WAS SHAPEN IN INIQUITY; AND IN SIN DID MY MOTHER CONCEIVE ME.
He wasn't saying his mother was some woman that slept around, his being conceived by someone other than who she was wed to at all. But was saying he knew he was born in iniquity because of having an understanding of this even then. How much more should we have the same understanding today because of what Rm. 3:23 says?
So that is why I use that phraseology. Because if all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, it just stands to reason there is a darn good reason why all have as well. Because all are born in bondage to sin to begin with as a result of sin being passed down from generation to generation, whether it comes right out and says so like your suggesting or not. A mystery is a mystery. And there exists a mystery of iniquity just as there exists a mystery of God. The mystery of iniquity consisting of how iniquity began within mankind, and the mystery of God is how God delivers us from that iniquity, replacing it with His seed of righteousness instead. So that iniquity no longer exists within the inward man anymore, thus allowing the outward man to then begin righteous too, as the Righteous one that has taken over within the inward man destroys even the body of sin or fleshly iniquity as well. Which is what it says is promised in Rm. 6:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Our no longer having to serve sin anymore because of being delivered from it when we are baptised in His death on the cross as well. Which means we can now also count ourselves dead to sin as well because of this deliverance that takes place at that baptism once we have also repented, having been forgiven so that Jesus Christ can receive us in His house.
Well, need to go for now.
But that is the reason I say that sin is passed down thru all generations since the beginning of Adam and Eves disobedience themselves.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
That is an interesting question. I tend to agree with you in part. Mankind is immortal in a sense that man has a spirit and soul that will live on. But man lost the kind of relationship with the Lord they had when he chose to disobey God, and partake of the tree He told him not to partake of, instead of sticking to the other trees, plus partaking of the Tree of Life instead. Then is when mankinds relationship begins to take the immortality of everlasting life anyway.
And this is still true today too, if we consider what Jesus said in John chapter 6 about partaking of his flesh and blood spiritually of course, which is an example of our beginning to partake of that Tree of Life. Meaning we eat of the Word of God, which consists today of His flesh and blood spiritually. And by receiving it into our hearts and lives as truth, we begin to partake of everlasting life as well. And those that do not accept it do not receive this.
But I would say, in light of that, God made man from the beginning having a choice to either accept or obey the Lord from beginning to end. I know some do not like that choice of words. But it is biblical, none the less.
I really believe the Lord put in my heart mankind lost as a result of disobedience, and will regain what was lost by their obedience. Make sense?
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
By definition, if man was ever immortal, he always is. that is what immortal means. If he is mortal, he always was. Immortal cannot become mortal. That is the premise of Hollywood movies like City of Angels, but in reality it is impossible.
Now if you say man is mortal from the beginning and is looking for immotality, that would make sense.
IMHO, man created in God's image is already immortal and always will be.
Thanks for sharing the url there and glad you enjoyed reading the dreams too. I don't often have that many, but do on occasion have one I believe is from the Lord. I believe we know when a dream is from God and when it isn't somehow. And if we question it to be, then often it isn't to begin with. Certainly dreams are scriptural, just as visions are as well.
Interesting forum, with lots of members.
You wrote Phil something I want to comment on for your consideration, which is:
"now note God never said he could not die but that he has not beginning and no end."
This is true God never said he could not die in those very words. But if He is the alpha and the Omega, the beginning to the end, being an eternal spirit being, then He cannot die.
Yes, Jesus did die. But it was the Man Jesus that was sacrificed on that cross, not God. Even though he was in flesh at the time this occurred. It was still the man that died. Maybe because man had to be the sacrifice for mankind to begin with. I don't know. Just know it sounds sort of good. I think we forget that Jesus was not only the Son of God that ws born of woman, but also the Son of Man too.
In other words, God reproduced Himself in flesh for that purpose. But as such, he felt everything any other man would feel as well. Yet His blood was pure, and without sin because of not being born in sin to begin with. And therefore became our sacrifice.
I also believe it was the spirit of Jesus that also rose from the dead too.
Now admittedly, I do not understand all of this yet. But am working on it little by little, here a little and there a little, as God reveals the understanding to me.
One thing I have begun to understand though, but definitely do not agree with, which is how some such as the JW's and others that believe Jesus was a man, do so. Even though the scriptures clearly say He was also God, but God come in flesh as His Son. So He could then reproduce other sons by adoption as well. Meaning I am beginning to see more and more how that we no longer have to sin at all, submitting to our fleshly temptations at all. Because of who lives within us. Somewhat like Jesus Christ even. Because He was also tempted too, possibly by flesh as well. At least in the same way Adam and Eve was tempted anyway. Which is why He is called the second Adam to begin with. And believe me, when you begin to see this, it puts a different light on the realization that hey, God within me is powerful enough to keep me from all sin too. That is provided we say to Him, "Not my will but thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. That is what the Son of Man did wasn't it? Not that there is anything good about ourselves either. But because of what lives within us. Like John said in 1 John 4:
4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU, THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD.
And honestly, those that believe they cannot cease from sin are saying to the Lord, you're not powerful enough to bring forth godliness into my life, thus doing what Paul said would happen to so many in the last days according to 2 Tim. 3:5. True we can be tempted, needing to repent of that temptation. But being tempted does not mean we are now walking in deliberate sin because of submitting to the flesh over the spirit.
But I don't believe God died on that cross, if that is what your saying there by that statement. because God is eternal.
In fact, can a spirit and or soul die totally in the way our body will?
I ask, because as you know, there are different meanings to death Biblically.
luv ya in Christ,
Sandy
Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2nd Pet. 1:10)
Roy>>"whether Adam was born with immortality or mortal with the ability to become immortal to am not 100% sure after reading your words but let me add..."
Roy, I appreciate your sharing your views and hope that my un-orthodox beliefs will not be offensive to you. I think you are a great guy and I'm glad you are here!
Roy, you said... If Adam was created in the image of God and God image is immortal than Adam had to have the image of a immortal like God"
This is an interesting statement.
"If Adam was created in the image of God..."
Well, so far... I think that scripture bears this out:
"Let US make man in OUR image" - Here, in Genesis, God makes it quite clear that He[THEY] DID indeed, make man in their image.
"...and God image is immortal..." -- I can see how easy it might be to assume that if God is immortal, then the image He created would have to be also...Well, here is where I have to state that even though God IS immortal, that doesn't mean that an 'image of Him' has to be immortal as well. He made a clay image... and then breathed air into it's lungs and it BECAME a living soul[notice: It doesn't say an ever-living soul] That is what the clay image BECAME.. a 'soul'... not an 'immortal soul'... just a living soul.. A temporary living being that was destined to DIE eventually if it did not partake of the tree of life... It was the serpent that lied to Eve and tried to convince her that she would "not surely die".. in essence, that she had an immortal soul.
Had Vs Became
Besides, there is 'had' and 'became'... The Bible did not say that Adam HAD a soul, it said he BECAME a soul. A 'living' soul, to be exact..
Roy, NO ONE "has' a soul.. they ARE souls... At this time, only God 'hath immortality' ! What does that mean?? Well, 'immortality' means that one cannot die.
Mortal = can die ... IMmortal = can't die
And, I can see how some could get confused about this... because the Word was God and the Word became a man and He DID die!
The Word GAVE UP His Eternal Life
That is the very purpose of Him giving up His eternal life... so that He could DIE as a sacrifice.... Yes, Roy... God, the Word, DID die.. but ... not just once! He died twice! When He gave up His place in the Godhead to BECOME a living soul like Adam.. that was the first time He died... He was no longer God, as God is God..
Note: That's why He could truly say that "there is none good but one and that is God"
(Mat 19:17 KJV) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Mar 10:18 KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
... When He said that,. HE WAS NOT GOD [as God is God].. He had given that up to become a man.... "for the suffering of death"
Most just gloss over this comment... But Jesus was a man! While He was here as the man Jesus, He was 'God' in name only.. Immanuel...
But He BECAME a man and lived a human life and DIED a human death! I know that hardly anyone believes this... they are mostly convinced that the Word just wrapped Himself in flesh and dwelt here for aprox 33 yrs and then went back to heaven -- permanently saddled with a scarred and marred physical body of 'flesh and bone' - He didn't! ...
What Really Happened
What really happened was that The Word BECAME flesh and blood... He was WITH God and He WAS God... He WAS an 'ever-living soul'... He gave that up to BECOME a 'living soul', like Adam... He BECAME a man...
a flesh and blood being just as we are... But, HE never broke God's Law and was NEVER guilty of any type of sin... Never!
When He died on the cross... the 'man' Jesus died...
When Christ was raised... He was raised a SPIRIT BEING... He was raised as a God being! He was raised BACK to the GLORY He had with the Father, before the world was... He was NOT raised with a body of flesh and bone... a bloodless cadaver for all eternity...
(Joh 17:5 KJV) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Before the world was... that was long long ago! It was way back there... before Adam and Eve... before even the world existed... In this 'true Lord's Prayer'.. Jesus was asking the Father to 'glorify him' "with the glory which I had with thee..." ... A Glory He DID NOT HAVE as Jesus, the man! A Glory He had given up to BECOME Jesus, the man! He was asking the Father to GLORIFY Him with The Glory of God!
God heard and ANSWERED His prayer at the Resurrection! He was given back His Glory as God and with it the Spirit Body He had before He became a man! ... He again had the POWER to appear and disappear as a flesh body... It's like a suit... He can put it on [appear] and take it off [disappear] anytime He chooses.
First God, then man, then... God AGAIN!!
Misunderstanding on this point is one way that satan adds to the confusion! So, if you wish, re-read what I just wrote.. compare it to what the Bible says and try really hard to understand. Pray about it!
Roy>>"But what if immortals can die..."
Roy, An immortal being can only die if THEY DO IT VOLUNTARILY... but that's what The Word did... for us...He did it for us so that one day, we too, can have that same kind of life!! An immortal being CAN choose to die.. They CAN give it up voluntarily, but it can never be taken from them!
Roy>>"...and as for the tree of life maybe if Adam ate of that tree he would forever live in sin without hope.."
This is something I think is a great possibility... I think that's why God reacted so quickly! To prevent them from eating from that Tree of Life and becoming eternally unhappy and with no hope of ever sharing in the Kingdom of God... for they would have been sinners for ever. They would have been satan's children... and just like him... but for all eternity.
(Gen 3:22 KJV) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
This shows me that it WAS POSSIBLE for Adam to eat from that tree and to gain 'immortality'... immunity from death... an eternal sinner!! God prevented this tragedy from happening!! He made sure there was yet to be some hope for mankind!
Roy>>but by God taking away the tree of life from reach Adam had to reach for a coming hope that sins could be wash away so he could live without sin and then when Adam ate of the tree he could live forever without sin maybe we got to add hope to the picture
That's exactly what God did... He drove out the man and barred the way to that tree so that man would have to live his temporary life and learn the lessons that sin brings... so that man would one day KNOW and KNOW that he knows that God was right and the
serpent was wrong. Then, when God was ready to reveal Himself and TEACH the man what sin is and what righteousness is, and what God has in store for those who will repent and return to God, then... then there will be hope!
"...now note God never said he could not die but that he has not beginning and no end..."
God, i.e... the "Godhead"... The Yahweh and the Yashua... - NEVER had a beginning... Impossible for us to comprehend right now. No beginning... and no end. - But, those who are born again... into that family... will never die... they will have had a beginning... but then they, too, will have no end! That is immortality!
Immunity to death..
"this MORTAL must put on IMMORTALITY"
I hope that you are eager to gain that wonderful, un-ending, eternal life!
