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Let's discuss your orthodox beliefs Phil...

August 1 2006 at 3:56 PM
  (Login mooseheadbeer)

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Hello Phil:

Being unorthodox myself, I am always interested in the unorthodox beliefs of others.  Maybe we will agree, or maybe we will set each other straight on some points...LOL



"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

 
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(Login PhilBarnes)
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Well

August 1 2006, 5:08 PM 

... I doubt that I can 'set' anyone straight on anything...

Phil


 
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(Login mooseheadbeer)

Re: Well

August 1 2006, 7:36 PM 

Hello Phil:

I have been studying the bible for more than 49 years, but I would say that 90% of my current opinions regarding scripture, have been formed in the 10 years that I have been discussing the bible on the internet.  I take evidence, and truth, where I find it, and alter my opinions accordingly.

Just what do you believe that is unorthodox Phil?



"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

 
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(Login PhilBarnes)
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Re: Well

August 2 2006, 6:03 PM 

Er...ah... there are almost ten pages of stuff here that reflect what I believe that is unorthodox... I invite you to peruse them and if you see something that catches your eye... feel free to speak up.
You said you were unorthodox as well.. In what way?



Phil

 
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(Login mooseheadbeer)

My unorthodoxy...

August 2 2006, 7:52 PM 

Hello Phil:

It is my opinion that the bible teaches that Christianity began in 6th century BC Babylon, as Judaism, when the captive Judeans became zealous for the kingdom when they received the prophecy that the kingdom of David would be resurrected.  The majority of the Jews who returned to Judea after the captivity was over, became backslidden from the gospel of the kingdom, and Jesus came to heal their backsliding, and restore their zeal for kingdom resurrection, by re-proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and making the Jews zealous for kingdom resurrection again.  The chief priests and pharisees had Jesus killed because they were afraid that he would lead an unsuccessful attack on Rome, causing the Romans to come to Judea and kill all the Jews.  After the apostles were all dead, the Romans took over, and paganized, Christianity, to stifle the apostolic Christian goal of overthrowing Rome and resurrecting the kingdom.

Is that unorthodox or what??? 



"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

 
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(Login PhilBarnes)
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Re: My unorthodoxy...

August 5 2006, 6:49 AM 

Hello Phil:

It is my opinion that the bible teaches that Christianity began in 6th century BC Babylon, as Judaism, when the captive Judeans became zealous for the kingdom when they received the prophecy that the kingdom of David would be resurrected.


Hello Abe.... Well, I'm sure that lots of opinions abound as to the beginning of "Christianity". I find it signifigant that Christ had no disciples until AFTER He was born and began His ministry...

The majority of the Jews who returned to Judea after the captivity was over, became backslidden from the gospel of the kingdom, and Jesus came to heal their backsliding, and restore their zeal for kingdom resurrection, by re-proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and making the Jews zealous for kingdom resurrection again.

Interesting view. Especially since Jesus came preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD... not the Kingdom of David. I do realize that at least some of the disciples thought that was what He was there for, but it wasn't...

The chief priests and pharisees had Jesus killed because they were afraid that he would lead an unsuccessful attack on Rome, causing the Romans to come to Judea and kill all the Jews.

My view is that satan is the one who 'had Him killed'...Hmm... I've also heard it said that they feared losing their prestige and their power over the people.

After the apostles were all dead, the Romans took over, and paganized, Christianity, to stifle the apostolic Christian goal of overthrowing Rome and resurrecting the kingdom.

I find it amazing how many different views are possible....
"...apostolic Christian goal of overthrowing Rome and resurrecting the kingdom..." ????? Well, I certainly don't believe that was their 'goal'... but eveyone to their own thoughts...


Is that unorthodox or what???

Is it?

Phil

 
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(Login mooseheadbeer)

Let's discuss it Phil...

August 5 2006, 2:50 PM 

Hello Phil:

Yes, everyone to his own opinion...LOL  However, these are not just opinions snatched out of the air, but are completely based on scripture.  I don't claim to speak for God, and so I don't claim that my opinions are fact, but I am quite sure they are basicly the story that scripture tells.

Actually, Christ, the coming Christ, had followers in 6th century BC, because when the captive Jews received the prophecy that a child would be born who would receive the kingdom of his father David, they began watching and waiting for that child.  Since he will receive the kingdom of his father David, then he will be king, and kings are called "annointed", so the child they were watching and waiting for would become "the messiah(the king)".  These 6th century BC Jews were messianic because they were watching and waiting for the messiah, and if you translate "messiah" into first century Koine Greek, you get "christ".  The 6th century Jews were messianic/christian, even though the first century Koine Greek word "christian" was not used to define them until Paul's church at Antioch.  Remember that Paul's converts were "true" Jews, because the first century Jews were backslidden from the good news of the kingdom, and the converts of Jesus and the apostles were true, or real, Jews.  First century Christianity was essentially a revival of 6th century BC Messianism.  The gospel Jesus was not the messiah, but was changed into the messiah by the Romans, so that the Christians would stop looking for the one who would overthrow the Roman empire and resurrect the Davidic kingdom.

Regarding the kingdom of God; there is only one kingdom of God, and that is the kingdom of Israel.  It is called the kingdom of David because God promised David that He would establish David's throne forever, with David's descendants always sitting on the throne(Davidic kingdom).  With the ascension of David to the throne of Israel, it became God's kingdom, because God had not only chosen David, but God had prepared David while he was still in his mother's womb, and David ruled at the pleasure of God.  "The spiritual kingdom" is simply the assembled body which has the coming resurrected kingdom in it's hearts and minds, and therefore has the incentive to fight for the resurrection of the Davidic kingdom.  We must also remember that the 6th century BC prophecy, claimed that the one who would be the messiah, would receive the kingdom of his father David, not the kingdom of his father God, and that prophecy was the first proclamation of the gospel of the kingdom.  Jesus simply reproclaimed it to backslidden Jews, to heal their backsliding from the 6th century BC gospel of the kingdom.

Regarding who had Jesus killed and why, it is true that the council of the chief priests and pharisees was because if the Romans killed all the Jews because of something that Jesus did, it would be detrimental to the chief priests and pharisees, who, without all the Jews would be out of their jobs, if not dead.  However, it was the high priest at that council, who pointed out that if they killed Jesus before he could anger Rome to the point of genocide, Jesus would die to save all the Jews...John 11 I believe.

The reason that you aren't aware that the first century Christian goal was to overthrow Rome and resurrect the Davidic kingdom, is because Rome took complete control of first century scripture and edited it as necessary for it's own purposes, which were to divert Christians from their goal of overthrowing the Roman empire.

If one reads scripture for the story it tells, rather than for the single verses and passages selected and assembled by the church, he would find the story of the kingdom goes something like this:

God chose the mixed assembly of the children of Israel to become Abraham's inheriting seed, to live by God's laws, become a great nation ruling all the land between the Euphrates and the Nile, and become a blessing(salvation) to all the nations of the earth.  As a kingdom, Israel was well on it's way to conquering all the land between the Euphrates and the Nile, but it became divided against it'self during Solomon's reign, and fell into non-existence in the civil war following Solomon's death.  The two resulting warring enemy nations both were destroyed by their enemies without the two nations ever repenting(reuniting as covenant Israel).  Since God's everlasting plan for the blessing of all the nations is forever tied to covenant Israel becoming a great nation on all the promised land, the covenant nation of Israel must be resurrected from the dead for God's plan to continue.  God has His face turned away from Israel, and all the nations, until covenant Israel is resurrected from the dead to repentance.   That is why the 6th century BC Babylonian Jews, and later in the first century, Jesus and his apostles, were building a body(army) for the Christ to lead into the battle of Armageddon, to take back the land and resurrect the Davidic kingdom of covenant Israel from the dead.  The backslidden Jews; the pharisees and the priesthood, did not want the kingdom resurrected because they were satisfied with their leadership status among the Jews, just the way it was, and they had Jesus killed to keep him from doing anything which might upset their apple cart.

What do you think Phil?



"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

 
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(Login PhilBarnes)
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Re: Let's discuss it Phil...

August 6 2006, 6:19 AM 

Hello Phil:

Yes, everyone to his own opinion...LOL However, these are not just opinions snatched out of the air, but are completely based on scripture. I don't claim to speak for God, and so I don't claim that my opinions are fact, but I am quite sure they are basicly the story that scripture tells.

What do you think Phil?


I think they are just opinions...

Phil

 
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(Login mooseheadbeer)

Just opinions, yes...

August 6 2006, 4:47 PM 

Hello Phil:

Yes they are just opinions, but they are my own, and not someone else's.

If you disagree with them, I would be more than happy to discuss their scripturality.

Being a bit unorthodox yourself, aren't you a bit curious about my claim that my opinions are scriptural?

What do you think?



"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

 
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