Supposedly, according to most evangelicals, Jesus died for our sins.

Quote,"Jesus Christ died for our sins. He suffered the penalty of the Law we had broken. Jesus suffered our punishment-- He took our place. "

Quote,".. "Jesus died for all our sins," "Was buried," and "was raised on the third day" are the cornerstone truths of being a Christian. Jesus died in order to save us. Then He returned to life to prove that He was sinless and that He was God."

Quote,"Jesus died for our sins, and was raised victorious over death. 1 Corinthians 15:22: "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" and again, (verses 54-57) "Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting? The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.""

Or did He???   They SAY He did, but if you dig a little deeper, you find that they don't REALLY Believe it!

They don't REALLY believe in death.

The Bible says He died. Why won't they believe it?

Do YOU believe it?

Phil Barnes
...The Apostle Paul did not keep sun-day.

Pass the butter!!

Phil

Pass the Sour Cream!

God didn't die, because God cannot die.

But the man or flesh did die on that cross I believe.

Does that mean he was not God? NO.

It just means He was God come in the flesh just like it says in John chapter 1.


luv in Christ,
Sandy

Wherefore the rather, brethren give diligence to make your calling and election sure; for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2 Pet. 1:10)

Is that like what the catholic church says is a mystery?

it sure reads like one in all seriousness. I imagine I am alone being an alleged apostate and all...

but.....how can anyone have a real relationship with a G-d and His son which makes such little sense?????
oh well.

Hello Sandra, How are you? It's been quite a while since you have
posted with us here... I want to thank you for sharing your views.

You said, "God didn't die, because God cannot die."

I wonder if other Christians agree with that? I'm betting that
most of them do. And frankly, to me, that seems strange. The
Bible SAYS that He died, and yet who actually believes that? I
hear that to be a follower of Christ, one must 'believe on
Him'... I think that most who seek Him DO 'believe on Him'.. and
yet, how many of them actually BELIEVE HIM?

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold,
I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of
death.

But just because the Bible SAYS so, who cares? Right? If we have
been taught a certain way, or of we have read the Book and drawn
our own conclusions that differ from what it says, what are we to
do with statements to the contrary?

Mar 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is
impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are
possible.

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men
this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

But I guess some would tell me that it's not a 'Salvational
issue'... The firm belief that God can't die, seems to take
precedence over verses like this one:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised
him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Sandra, "But the man or flesh did die on that cross I believe."

Most who profess Christ, say that they believe that He is LORD,
and yes, they even SAY that they believe that He was raised from
the dead... but they don't believe He really DIED. Just the
human body... I wonder... is that all it took to cover our sins?
The death of a human body? But I digress..

Sandra, "Does that mean he was not God? NO."

There seems to be an issue with believing two things at the same
time:

1.)That Jesus was God

2.)That He could actually DIE

Since most deny that He actually died, there has to be a
compromise... just the body died, they say...

That fits in nicely with the idea that we all have an immortal
soul...

But the bible says He was dead...

Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was
dead already, they broke not his legs:

Act 25:19 But had certain questions against him of their own
superstition, and of one Jesus, which was dead, whom Paul
affirmed to be alive.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write;
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and
is alive;

Sandra, "It just means He was God come in the flesh just like it
says in John chapter 1."

To 'come in the flesh'... ahh.. there is a description... And
what do most professing Christians believe? That He, the Word,
came in the flesh... but, what does it mean? What is the true
understanding of that? How can it be? IN WHAT WAY, did He 'come
in the flesh'???

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of
the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Did the Father wrap the Word in a shroud of flesh and send Him
down here to inhabit a mortal body for about 33 years and then
allow that mortal body to be beaten and abused, and then
KILLED... and then, did the Word simply leave that flesh body and
go on living? Or did He actually experience DEATH?
Did He simply 'put on' a suit of disposable flesh, or do we actually
BELIEVE John 1:14 "the Word was MADE FLESH.."

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the
angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and
honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for
every man.

That immortal soul doctrine always hinders.... Rom. 6:23 The
PENALTY of sin is DEATH! Yes, that's what it says, but most
don't believe in death so really they don't believe in the
penalty. They believe that separation is the penalty. Why? Why
does the Bible say one thing and most people BELIEVE another? God
told mother Eve, "you shall surely die"... The serpent told her
'just the opposite'... It's been that way from the beginning and
it will be that way until the end... until the Great God HIMSELF
comes down here and straightens it out!

There is a lot of confusion about Christ and death... satan likes
it like that... Some even believe that Jesus RAISED HIMSELF from
the dead...??? But what does the Bible SAY? and, who will listen?

I don't really expect you to believe these things, but I want to
toss them out there so that those who have not made up their
minds yet will have the opportunity to reflect on them..

If you believe that Jesus is God in flesh, than you much believe that God died, as Jesus who you say is God in the flesh died.

Either God is eternal and can not die, or

if you believe Jesus is God, that God died.

Yet the bible says God is eternal and can not die.

Therefore Jesus is not God, but God's Son who did die. And God did not die. No contradiction there, but there is if you believe that Jesus is God.

That's how I see it, and I feel the bible backs it up.

Acomtha

Hello Acomtha, How you??
Long time no see!! I hope you are feeling well.

Acomtha, This is a 'sticky subject' because it is touches on man's understanding, or maybe on his mis-understanding of God. It touches on truth... truth about God's POWER and truth about life and death... it touches on God's purpose for man and on whether or not man has an 'immortal soul'. It touches on whether or not God is a 'trinity' or whether there is only one God... It also touches on the belief of some that Jesus is not God.  To many, it's an either/or situation that has no in between...

Acomtha, "If you believe that Jesus is God in flesh, than you much believe that God died, as Jesus who you say is God in the flesh died. "

I believe the Bible. That may simply sound like a trite answer, but really... what do most people believe about Jesus?  There are a multitude of beliefs... some are correct and some are not. Most of today's professing Christians accept doctrines that the Bible does not support. Much of their doctrine is, to them, a matter of 'Christian Freedom'...

Some believe that the person we call Jesus WAS God wrapped in human flesh... I guess you might say that they believe He was God, all dressed up in human form... like an undercover cop, all dressed up like us, but not really 'one of us'. 

Acomtha, "Either God is eternal and can not die, or
if you believe Jesus is God, that God died.
Yet the bible says God is eternal and can not die."

Where does the Bible say He cannot die? My Bible says that "with God all things are possible" -

Acomtha, "Therefore Jesus is not God, but God's Son who did die. And God did not die. No contradiction there, but there is if you believe that Jesus is God."

I don't know what you believe about Jesus and whether or not He was God... I'm not sure how to describe what I see as being the truth of the matter, but I'll try...

In the beginning was the Word... The WORD was God, in other words, He was the LOGOS, one of two God beings. The other God being was the THEOS... they were both God beings... both eternal, both equal... In the 'beginning' or in  A beginning, they said, LET US make man in OUR image... Here they were, deciding to make US... and deciding HOW they would make us.  The one called the LOGOS, or the WORD, is the one who said, "Let there be light"... He is the one... who actually did the work of Creation, but they were both in total agreement on it, so it was as if they both did it.

They also decided to have a plan ready in order to save mankind if they sinned... they decided that one of them would have to sacrifice themselves in order to accomplish that... So.. one of them became the Father, and the other became the Son... the one called the LOGOS was the one who became a man, and dwelled with us for approx 33 years... During His human life, He was called Jesus... He lived a perfect life, and died an agonizing death... He was either DEAD, or we have no saviour... the Bible confirms that He died... it does not differentiate, as men do, about only His body dying... it says that HE died.   People are confused by that because they have been fed a lie about us humans having an immortal soul. But the Bible never uses those words together... the Bible never says that a soul is immortal... [immortality is the ability to NEVER BE KILLED]...that means that an individual who is immortal, can never be killed.  They can never have their life taken from them... It does not mean that they cannot voluntarily give up their life. .God alone has immortality.. the angels don't have it... they have what we call everlasting life... or age-lasting as some prefer..it is life that never ends unless God decides to terminate it... and we humans have temporary life... life that will and does end naturally after a set time and ALWAYS HAPPENS unless God decides to prolong it... but even if He does prolong it, it still is not immortal!  It still is not 'everlasting life' like the angels have, it is MORTAL LIFE that ends... and the conscience does not go on and on...it stops! It terminates when this temporary life ends... and does not reactivate until the resurrection..

In order for the plan of salvation  to proceed, the LOGOS had to lay down His spirit life... He had to willingly and voluntarily give up His eternal life as God.. to BECOME a man... Like the first Adam, He BECAME a living soul... a temporary, air breathing creature... a MAN.  He gave up EVERYTHING to become our Saviour!  Then, because He loved us so much, He even gave up that temporary life as well!!  He died the death of a man.  He laid down His eternal life as GOD to become one of us... to live like us and to be like us and to die like us!  While He was here, living on this earth, there was only one God being in existence... He could truthfully say, there is none good but one, that is God! 

Before He died on the Stake, He prayed the Father that He would give Him back the 'Glory He had with the Father BEFORE the world was... and God answered that prayer by raising Christ from the dead...This was Christ's Second Birth... He is the 'First Born' of many brethren... The Father raised Christ as a Spirit Being... changed Him from Human to Spirit... from human... to God!!  Giving Him back the Glory He had from eternity past.... He was NOT RAISED as a cold, clammy cadaver, with only flesh and bone...That was the manifested body that He presented to the disciples so they would recognize Him... He was raised SPIRIT... He was God, who became a man, ....who became God...

As you said, "That's how I see it, and I feel the bible backs it up."

Phil Barnes
...The Apostle Paul did not keep sun-day.

how it is that I believe the exact same as you do...never attending what i think is your choice of worship....

yet not ONE thing i have not been shown myself.

I guess....detractors would say we both are deceived by the spirit of error.....but in ask....would a spirit of error be back up so completely in the Word?

hardly.

I always appreciate when you post things phil....it toally edifies me this way....

you say things so much better than I ever could....

please understand that i believe your help for me is no accident.....so continue to post....please.

AND know i never take what you or anyone says at face value i always check it out in the word and whever i amled to.....

G-d will reward you Phil....I pray He will anyhow. AND I mean no flattery in saying this....

thanks brother.

Believe it.

completely.

Jesus became MAN....was tempted like us.....and over came the tempatation....

a sinless life....with the playing field as even as our is.

He was KILLED and died.

The Father,....accepted His sacrifce and was raised.

But...don't believe me...seek for yourself.

After a ministry of three and a half years here on earth, Jesus was killed by his opposers. He showed that a perfect man can be obedient to the Creator despite even the greatest trials. (1 Peter 2:22) His sacrificed perfect human life became the ransom price, able to redeem mankind from sin and death. Jesus Christ said: "No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends." (John 15:13) On the third day after his death, Jesus was resurrected to spirit life, and some weeks later he ascended to heaven to present the ransom price to Jehovah God. (1 Corinthians 15:3, 4; Hebrews 9:11-14) By doing so, Jesus was able to apply the merit of his ransom sacrifice to those who follow him.