WASHINGTON — In a new twist on supply and demand, D.C. United could be turning away fans from Freddy Adu's first game — even though thousands of seats will be empty.
United has closed off the upper deck of 53,000-seat RFK Stadium this season and will strictly adhere to a downsized capacity of 24,607.
"We've downsized in the past, but we haven't always stuck to it," general manager Kevin Payne said. "At some point in the next few years, we're going to have a stadium that only seats about 25,000, so we need to get people in the habit of buying tickets in advance."
Saturday's opener against San Jose is on pace to sell out in advance at the downsized limit, fueled by the publicity surrounded the debut of 14-year-old prodigy Adu. Payne said United has averaged 5,000-6,000 in walk-up business on past opening days, but there will be no room for them all this time.
"If people walk up to this home game, and the stadium's sold out, then we're going to sell them tickets to the next home game," Payne said. "But people shouldn't rely on walking up."
This year, the team is drawing the line at the upper deck, even if it means some fans will go home unhappy.
"You can't just open the upper deck. It's got to be staffed," Payne said. "If it's not staffed in advance, then we don't even have the option of opening it. We wouldn't be permitted to. We're not going to."
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 8:22 PM from IP address 24.64.223.204
And I have to say that, particularly since they've already tried it the other way, it makes sense to do this. Let's hope they have reason to open the upper deck (ie they sell out every game). Cheers.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 2:13 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
Deja vu?? A Soccernet columnist details a country whose soccer problems seem very familiar.
IT'S ALL UPHILL DOWN UNDER
Derek Rae
Australia likes to call itself the 'lucky country' but good fortune has been in short supply recently for the national football team, affectionately known to its supporters as the 'Socceroos.'
Uphill struggles and the world's foremost sport have of course always had plenty in common in the land down under. Football is hardly top of the pops in Australia, ranking well below cricket, the two rugby codes and the ubiquitous Aussie rules.
For years it was viewed merely as an ethnic game played and watched by the many immigrant groups who settled in Australia after the Second World War. While young sporting hopefuls arriving from far-flung places, such as Greece, the former Yugoslavia and Scotland, might have wanted to emulate Pele or Cruyff, the bulk of the population was far more preoccupied with the pace bowling exploits of Lillee or the batting prowess of Chappell.
On the face of it, little has changed in recent years. Football still struggles to avoid the 'follow-on' and fans of the game are under no illusion as to the role of the country's domestic league, the NSL Premiership. Young players of ability, performing for the likes of Wollongong Wolves, Parramatta Power and Perth Glory will inevitably be sold to European clubs. The only question mark concerns the timing.
What has changed is the influence of Australian players in many of Europe's top leagues. At the top end, the likes of Liverpool's Harry Kewell, Leeds United's Mark Viduka and the Parma player Mark Bresciano have become high-profile public figures in their countries of residence, if not necessarily in Australia itself. More than a hundred Aussies now play professional football in one European country or another.
National coach, Frank Farina, our guest on ESPN's Press Pass last week, faces the daunting task of keeping up-to-date with the form of his leading players from a distance of some 10,000 miles away. Whether it's John Aloisi of the Spanish side Osasuna or David Zdrilic at SPL club Aberdeen, Farina can tell you when they've excelled and when they've had a stinker. Mind you, the Aussie boss knows better than most what his players go through since the peak years of his own career were spent playing club football in France, Belgium and Italy.
So, what do you do when your staff members work in satellite offices far from home? The answer in Australia's case is, you go to them. Sensibly, given the working addresses of Emerton, Moore, Cahill and co., Farina's Socceroos decided to stage this week's friendly against South Africa, neither in Sydney nor Melbourne but rather at a home away from home, namely Loftus Road in London.
A plan is in the works to create a permanent presence in Europe. This would enable future 'home' games to take place where the majority of the players earn their living while having the added bonus of easing often frosty relations with clubs employing Australian internationals. Many of these teams have proved insensitive to the daily geographical challenges facing Farina and his coaching staff. The feeling amongst some Australian fans is that tacit pressure is placed on Socceroo squad members to skip friendlies held in less than convenient locations.
The recent challenge match in Venezuela brought the issue to a head but this time, the national governing body, Soccer Australia flexed its muscles. By invoking FIFA's 'five-day rule' against Mark Viduka and Scott Chipperfield, who were selected for the game but failed to travel, the Australians made an important statement. That Viduka and Chipperfield missed their subsequent club matches for Leeds United and Basle was unfortunate for the players themselves but it sent the message loudly and clearly that Soccer Australia has the capacity to counter-punch. It's a skill they would do well to hone.
The FIFA executive committee have time and again dealt dreadful hands to Oceania, the confederation of which Australia is the most populous member. Last year's shameful decision to renege on a commitment to award Oceania an automatic slot in the 2006 World Cup Finals will continue to sting for years to come down under. The merits of reserving a place in the 32-team field for the Oceania champions can of course be debated at length. Nevertheless a promise is a promise. Now, as was the case in 2002, a two-legged meeting with the fifth best team in South America will determine whether Oceania has a standard bearer in the World Cup for the first time since New Zealand in 1982.
Competitive matches are something of a rarity for Australia and their only serious competition in the region comes from the New Zealanders. Alas, footballing politics and politicians have conspired to make qualification a big ask for the two antipodean teams. A more logical approach from FIFA would surely have given the Oceania winners a play-off with an Asian or CONCACAF representative. It's reasonable to wonder whether teams like the United Arab Emirates, Canada or Honduras would fancy their chances in a competitive tie against the Socceroos. Then again it was far easier and more politically expedient to dump a South American team on Oceania once more.
With all the talk about 'homes away from home' in Europe, Australian fans can at least look forward to a couple of intriguing home fixtures against Turkey at the end of May. Amazingly, it's been almost three years since the Socceroos last played in front of a real home crowd!
Farina himself expects to spend an increasing amount of time in future observing his players from close quarters in Europe but the irony of what amounts to a 'volte-face' by Australian football's chattering classes is not lost on him. In the days when Terry Venables tried unsuccessfully to guide the Socceroos to the 1998 World Cup Finals, criticism was levelled at 'El Tel' for keeping his base in England and not travelling to Australia often enough to watch home-based players.
Let me tie my colours to the mast here. I hope Farina and his team make it to Germany in the summer of 2006. Then, perhaps football's high honchos will stop treating Oceania like a punch bag.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:00 PM from IP address 24.64.223.204
Paul Peschisolido's return to the team will give Canada some much needed firepower.
The Canadian men's soccer team is not known for goals, but new coach Frank Yallop was heartened by what he saw up front at a training camp for European-based players that wrapped up Wednesday in Manchester, England.
Yallop, who officially took over the national team on Jan. 1, had Everton's Tomasz Radzinski and Derby County's Paul Peschisolido in camp. They will be bolstered by Dwayne DeRosario of the San Jose Earthquakes, the MLS team Yallop used to coach.
Yallop says he may play all three strikers at the same time.
"Put it this way, we've got some firepower and I like it," Yallop said Wednesday from Ipswich, England.
Canada has lacked teeth up front in the past.
In the 30 games since Canada opened its qualifying campaign for the last World Cup, the Canadian men have managed just 24 goals while conceding 51. Canada has been blanked 14 times during that stretch, although to be fair the Canadians held the opposition scoreless 10 times over the same period.
The good news is Canada scored 12 of those goals in the last 10 games against a tough list of opponents that included the Czech Republic, the U.S., Costa Rica, Ireland and Finland.
Add up the world rankings of those five and you get 61 -- some 30 less that Canada's current post of No. 91.
The bad news is the Canadians gave up 28 goals over that 10-game period.
Injuries and absences have hurt the Canadian attack in the past.
Politics kept Peschisolido, at loggerheads with former coach Holger Osieck, out of the national team set-up while Radzinski, once he elected to return to the fold, was hampered by injury.
The Manchester camp was the second for Yallop, who brought his North American-based players to Florida in January in advance of a 1-0 exhibition win over Barbados.
The only player to miss the English camp was St. Gallen midfielder Daniel Imhof, who was injured in a club game in Switzerland last weekend.
Yallop only had three training sessions -- he elected for quality time not quantity -- but also met with the players individually and had a team meeting.
"It would have been nice to have a game, like an international game, but for what I wanted to get out of it it was perfect," he said. "I wanted to get them a little familiar with me . . . like the Florida (camp) where I wanted to make sure that they see how I work, that I see them close-up.
"I felt it went really well. The attitude was great. The standard was high in training and I was pleased."
Next up for Canada is a camp and an exhibition game May 30 against Wales in Wrexham. The team will then fly to North America for a June 5 friendly against the Earthquakes in San Jose.
After that, it's off to Ottawa for another camp in advance of World Cup qualifying games June 13 and 16 against Belize in Kingston, Ont.
Yallop expects to have all his players available.
The question of who will captain Canada under Yallop is not a burning issue for the coach.
"I haven't really thought about it to be honest. To me it's not a big issue. Really the captain is the guy that flips the coin."
Veteran defender Jason deVos served as captain under Osieck and will "probably" retain the armband, according to Yallop.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 6:36 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
I guest short of securing a game at the end this was the next best thing to do instead of staying put for the international week,more of this should be done if Canada cannot secure a game during international week
the side benefit or could be the most important thing while engaging in a friendly match is the time the national coach get to spend with the players working the kind of system he wants them to play and Canada need of more of that more than other countires
no need to send them in a game without any kind of significant preparation and ground work
at least this week was not a complete lost.
good initiative by the CSA.
may be next time yallop could secure a game against Ipwich in the mix.
bravo.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 8:16 PM from IP address 216.209.239.10
(matrixball is a new competitor game to soccer which was invented here in vancouver bc. the site has free video and written instructions for free for the school network, building is in progress but feel free to download and use the lessons for soccer)
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 6:22 PM from IP address 209.17.134.141
Forget about Pipe and Co....Learn how "volunteer" Alan Rothenberg made millions from the 1994 World Cup (including 7M bonus) and MLS while many MLS players were earning measly 24K ...Plus many other things....:P
PS Old news I guess,but I've never seen the transcripts before .........:P
For Asia, South Amer, and Concacaf. I hope that this pastes well on this format. What I noted was the improved results from Venzuela in Conmebol and that Korea was held to a 0-0 draw against Maldives. Hmmm!!! tells you alot about what this side is capable of when the fix isn't in.
________________
31-Mar-2004 LIMA (Peru) Peru - Colombia 21:45
31-Mar-2004 ASUNCION (Paraguay) Paraguay - Brazil 21:45
31-Mar-2004 MONTEVIDEO (Uruguay) Uruguay - Venezuela 19:40
30-Mar-2004 BUENOS AIRES (Argentina) Argentina - Ecuador 1:0 (0:0)
30-Mar-2004 LA PAZ (Bolivia) Bolivia - Chile 0:2 (0:1)
31-Mar-2004 KUANTAN (Malaysia) Malaysia - Kuwait 0:2 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 HONG KONG (Hong Kong) Hong Kong - China PR 0:1 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 SINGAPORE (Singapore) Singapore - Japan 1:2 (0:1)
31-Mar-2004 ASHGABAT (Turkmenistan) Turkmenistan - Indonesia 19:00
31-Mar-2004 COLOMBO (Sri Lanka) Sri Lanka - Saudi Arabia 0:1 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 AMMAN (Jordan) Jordan - Qatar 1:0 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 KOCHIN (India) India - Oman 1:5 (1:2)
31-Mar-2004 DOHA (Qatar) Palestine - Iraq 1:1 (0:1)
31-Mar-2004 NAM DINH (Vietnam) Vietnam SR - Lebanon 0:2 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 VIENTIANE (Laos) Laos - Iran 0:7 (0:4))
31-Mar-2004 MALE (Maldives) Maldives - Korea Republic 0:0
31-Mar-2004 DUSHANBE (Tajikistan) Tajikistan - Bahrain 0:0
31-Mar-2004 BISHKEK (Kyrgyzstan) Kyrgyzstan - Syria 1:1 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 PYONGYANG (Korea DPR) Korea DPR - United Arab Emirates 0:0
31-Mar-2004 SANA'A (Yemen) Yemen - Thailand 16:00
31-Mar-2004 TAIPEI (Chinese Taipei) Chinese Taipei - Uzbekistan 0:1 (0:0)
31-Mar-2004 WILLEMSTAD (Netherlands Antilles) Netherlands Antilles - Antigua and Barbuda 20:30 Referee: PIPER Richard (TRI)
31-Mar-2004 BASSETERRE (St. Kitts and Nevis) St. Kitts and Nevis - US Virgin Islands 19:00 Referee: RECINOS Neftali (SLV)
28-Mar-2004 VIEUX FORT (St. Lucia) St. Lucia - British Virgin Islands 9:0 (3:0) Referee: CORRIVAULT Jean-François (CAN)
28-Mar-2004 NASSAU (Bahamas) Bahamas - Dominica 1:3 (0:1) Referee: PINEDA Jose (HON)
27-Mar-2004 PARAMARIBO (Surinam) Surinam - Aruba 8:1 (4:1) Referee: PRENDERGAST Peter (JAM)
27-Mar-2004 HAVANA (Cuba) Cuba - Cayman Islands 3:0 (1:0) Referee: RODRIGUEZ Marco (MEX)
26-Mar-2004 NASSAU (Bahamas) Dominica - Bahamas 1:1 (0:0)
FSW: In U.S., Mexican professional soccer enjoys huge crowds
by London Ont. soccer fan
An article almost guaranteed to get MCM's knee jerking furiously but the Hispanic market is clearly very important for soccer's future in North America and is one of the factors that is probably helping to convince MLS's core investors to stay the course with their massive long term investment in our sport. The Hispanic population is growing rapidly and will form the majority in states like California and Texas within the next generation.
In U.S., Mexican professional soccer enjoys huge crowds
BY MARTHA MENDOZA
Associated Press
Mar. 26, 2004 2:04 p.m.
SAN JOSE, California (AP)— As two of Latin America's most famous soccer teams took the field here, more than 20,000 fans screamed, jumped, danced and rocked the stands.
Of course, probably only those who follow Spanish television, radio or newspapers (or live within screaming distance of the stadium), knew about the match between the Guadalajara Chivas and the Morelia Monarcas, let alone the 50 other professional Mexican soccer games scheduled north of the United States-Mexico border this year.
Even so, Mexican professional soccer - in ever-increasing friendlies - is drawing dependable crowds, cash, and a passionate soccer culture inside the United States while Major League Soccer is still trying to secure a foothold in mainstream America.
"Look at this," gestured Ben Guzman of Futbol de Primera, a soccer promotion agency, as fans surged into San Jose State University's stadium before the game last week. "Major League Soccer would love to have a crowd like this."
Soccer's first attempt to go pro in the United States - about 35 years ago - flopped after teams made up of almost entirely international players failed to draw local fans. So when the MLS launched in 1996, it limited international players to about three per squad.
Since then, despite increased television coverage and high profile successes by the U.S. national team, the league has failed to boost attendance to more than about 16,000 fans a game on average.
Now soccer promoters on both sides of the border are pursuing a new strategy: Targeting the almost 40 million Latinos in the United States, especially the 9 million recent immigrants among them.
"Promoters are starting to see the value in pushing these teams to the population here," said Nelson Rodriguez, who promotes Mexican games in the United States for Soccer United Marketing, a sister organization of MLS. "There's a lot of fertile ground."
In January, SUM brought an eight-team Mexican tournament to cities in California and Texas. They're also bringing in more Latino players (by one analyst's estimate, when a Central American player left the San Jose Earthquakes, the fan base dropped by 5,000) and considering hiring an Hispanic coach.
Most notably, when the league expands next year from 10 to 12 teams, one of those teams will be owned and operated by a new Mexican partner: Chivas. The league is considering San Diego, among other cities, for the new team.
"We truly believe this is a powerful opportunity in the U.S. and, of course, Chivas wants to be part of that," Chivas owner Jorge Vergara said last fall when the deal was announced.
The untapped potential has not been missed by broadcasters, who have been pleasantly surprised by the sold-out crowds for the visiting Mexican games. Fox Sports en Espanol, one of the first cable networks to target Hispanics, earned its highest prime-time ratings ever, 8.9, when it aired the final game of the January tournament.
At the game in San Jose, the stadium was a sea of red stripes, vertical with white for Chivas, horizontal with yellow for Morelia. For fans who packed their babies, blankets, picnics and flags into the stands, the event was a rare taste of home.
"In Mexico, we are born as soccer fans," said Chivas fan Juan Salazar, a business manager from suburban Sunnyvale who paid $45 for his Chivas-Morelia ticket last week. "Me, I was born with stripes on my skin."
Mexican players earn, on average, about as much each month as a MLS player earns in a year: $50,000. As a result, it's been tough to lure any into the league.
But Morelia's star goalie Moises Munoz - who also plays for Mexico's national team - said he loves to visit.
"There are so many people here rooting for us," he said, smiling at the more than 1,000 fans who crowded barricades around the team bus after the game, despite their 3-2 loss. "They're fans, and they don't get to see us play very often, but we love to come."
The MLS isn't the only one cashing in on these stars.
El Mexicano, distributors of Mexican cheese, yogurts, jalapenos and other food, is sponsoring the effort to bring top Mexican teams - this year it's Morelia - to U.S. friendly games.
It's not cheap, said El Mexicano general manager Timothy Luce. Some teams charge more than $100,000 for an appearance, not to mention renting a stadium, security and logistics. But with tickets selling from $25 to $45 each, Luce said that in certain cities - Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles and others with large numbers of Hispanic immigrants - it's well worth the effort.
The payoff, he said, is more than just ticket sales. El Mexicano usually offers free tickets to kids who bring caps from their branded yogurt and, he said, product sales in general are boosted when fans identify their food with their teams.
They don't even bother marketing outside the Hispanic markets.
"These are very dedicated fans," he said. "But American fans, they're not interested in this."
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:18 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
ESW: In U.S., European professional soccer enjoys HUGE crowds
by Elias
20 000 fans is huge? Um, was there not something like 70 000 in Seattle, New York, Philadelphia last summer? And the game in Philly was the first event at the stadium (at least the first sports event cause didn't they have a concert or something), which must have been sacrilegious in some corners.
So I guess the European market is much more important?
One more time, and I think you sort of agree with me on this, it's not soccer that immigrants care about so much. Soccer represents their roots, their "home". If watching grass grow was the national sport (which seems to be in some places, watching the way some countries play soccer), that would be what they would watch.
Having 20 000 or 70 000 people show up for one special event game doesn't mean anything, as MLS can attest to.
Now, I don't know who can disagree with the fact that the Hispanic market is an important market. Just like any other business, the MLS needs to go after consumers who are knowledgeable about their product and are much more likely to purchase. But, people who are knowledagble (or think they are - which is worse), won't purchase a product that they think is inferior, i.e. MLS vis-a-vis Mexican/European soccer.
However, imho, just like the NBA became "cool" after it became the Official Game of the Ghetto, even though most ticket buyers are white corporate America, soccer and the MLS will never succeed until it becomes cool in the ghettos and until especially Hispanic Americans feel part of organized soccer in the U.S. As long as organized soccer is an upper-middle class suburban sport, it will never succeed, just like hockey in the U.S.
Back to the article, big deal about all these stupid games. NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL have games in Japan and Europe and China and big deal. After that one-day special event, nobody cares about them anymore. On one hand they are good cause at least the game of soccer is being promoted to the masses, but on the other hand, it takes money and time away from the local game. One more but, the local game never really would have received that money or time so I guess it sort of helps more than it hurts.
"by one analyst's estimate, when a Central American player left the San Jose Earthquakes, the fan base dropped by 5,000" - one comment, B-U-L-L F***ING S-H-I-T. Four sentences before that it says the NASL failed because they brought in international players to basically market to those ex-pat communities. So it didn't work then, but it will work now?!?!?!
The last part of that article is the stupidest (is that a word?). "They don't even bother marketing outside the Hispanic markets. 'These are very dedicated fans,' he said. 'But American fans, they're not interested in this.'" Like my boy Homer (the cartoon one) would say, "Duh" (or does Bart say that?). I assume by "American" he means non-Hispanics. Well, if you open a true (i.e. what a Mexican grandmother would cook at home) 100% Mexican restaurant in a city with a million Mexicans, would you really advertise oustide of the Mexican community?
End of rant.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:38 PM from IP address 65.93.173.46
I guess since Elias has pointed out the obvious, and he's done so logically and accurately, then he's a "knee-jerker" too? If he's a knee-jerker, for forming informed, logical, and intelligent conclusions from common-sense observation, then I guess I'm a knee-jerker too. It beats jerking whatever it is that you . . . oh, never mind.
Great post Elias. I don't expect there will be much follow up, since what you have written is blindingly obvious to anyone who doesn't have a huge, erroneous axe to grind.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 5:06 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
I think I've maybe taken you a bit too seriously in the past...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...Where did I say that I agreed with the article verbatim?
MLS has had problems attracting Mexican Americans because of the inferior product problem Elias alluded to in his message for reasons that are clear in the article I posted given the comparison made in player salaries with the Mexican league. Having big name Mexican players in the early years like Jorge Campos didn't do the trick. In contrast Central Americans have formed a significant portion of the fanbase for franchises like the Galaxy, Burn, Fire and Metrostars because they see MLS as being as good as or better than the soccer in their native countries. I've seen it claimed that without that demographic MLS's broadcast ratings and ticket sales might have been perilously close to WUSA territory in some markets.
The idea behind Chivas USA is clearly to try to recreate a bit of "home" as Elias puts it for Mexican Americans in a market like LA where Mexican Americans actually probably form a majority of the soccer fan base but have tended not to take MLS all that seriously.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 5:29 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
My dream for Canadian soccer is that everyone would be involved in one set of leagues - a huge pyramid from the community to the national teams. All organisations have politics and infighting, but when everyone is together, there is more scope for elite players to break off, and for recreational players to keep playing the game. Nobody pouting in the corner - off with their own tribe, going on about either how superior, and yet how hard done by, they are. This seems to happen in soccer to a degree not seen in any other sport, and this is a huge weakness which should not be ignored or hushed up, but which should be exposed, condemned, and fixed. I know you disagree, and consider this a strength. I just can't ever figure out what you base that on, when the evidence and experience are all to the contrary.
Everyone who wants to play, can. I tire of people who pretend they are deprived in some way, or act as if they are excluded. You have done so on this site, and indeed are the standard bearer for this - carping on about how various people just need that tribal fence around them. Too often the whiners who do so play the "race" card, if they can. Quite frankly, I don't like whiners, so I'll give them stick. Even if they then play the "race" card on me. Oh well, that's the price you pay for pointing out the truth.
Everyone who wants to coach, ref, or administer can also do so. We always need more volunteers, and I have yet to see anyone in sport who wants to volunteer be turned away, in the manner that you seem to think I would delight in (and, which, in fact, I would not). Certainly the various people I've associated with for years would be surprised to hear someone suggest that I would want to do so.
All this is warm and fuzzy, and if this were a site where coaches exchanged ideas, or whatever, then we'd probably all be in accord.
But it isn't. It's a site for fans.
And does that ever add change the dynamic. What makes a great practice drill is easy to agree on, and makes no difference what language you speak. What helps or hinders the growth of Canadian soccer as a spectator sport seems far more open to debate.
I'd hope that nobody would never equate my criticism for who is likely to be a paying customer of Canadian (or American) soccer into some sort of desire to see them out of the sport. Far from it - I wish the opposite.
But observation and experience tells me that this doesn't happen, and won't happen. If everyone who loved soccer was a fan of the sport here, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because soccer would have more money and fans in Canada than the NHL. If Hispanic fans actually supported American soccer in the 'pie-in-the-sky' way that this article (and you) thinks, then MLS would have started a decade earlier than it did, and it's ten teams would have been in LA, San Fran, San Diego, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Miami, Tampa, and Orlando.
But surprise, surprise, that didn't happen.
I understand that some people will never become fans of the Canadian game. That's fine, but we should (a) stop wasting time, effort, and money pretending they will, and (b) acknowledge that the way they insulate themselves from the rest of the community is a weakness that needs to be addressed, particularly in the context of the culture surrounding the paying customer of the Canadian game.
I think most of the articles you copy are topical and worthwhile. You don't see me making "knee jerk" negative responses to all of them, so why you would suggest that I do so is more about rhetoric or demonisation than about fact. My problem is with stupidity, false information, or flawed logic; and those are the things I WILL respond to in a knee-jerk reaction.
Rather like Elias did to the article you posted. It's easy to say afterwards that you don't agree with that article, but you are constantly harping on this, and your "editorial" at the top makes two things obvious. One, you agree with the article, or at least the points that you have chosen to highlight in bold. Why pretend otherwise? And two, you're looking for an argument with me, or at least for me to notice, since you've said so in your editorial.
Unfortunately, that was a very poor article, and Elias has covered why. It didn't take someone who is a knee-jerk know-nothing to criticise it. It just took someone with common sense. Elias' examples and his observations were spot on - and not just because they refuted your opinions (although that was nice too!). He has pointed out the inherent contradictions in it, which are the same contradictions that you are constantly putting forth here. The comparison with the European club exhibitions is so obvious that it's amazing that it had to be pointed out to anyone.
Cheers though.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:34 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
MetroStars' Stadium Deal Not Done Yet
By JACK BELL
Published: March 31, 2004
Plans to build a stadium for the MetroStars as part of a development project in Harrison, N.J., are close, but not as close as Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber said they were.
"In reference to the MetroStars' stadium story that ran today, I found out that the papers actually were not signed," Garber said in an e-mail message yesterday, referring to an article on Monday in The New York Times. "I am extremely confident that the project for the MetroStars and Hudson County will be completed in the near term."
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:56 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
MONTREAL, March 30, 2004 — For the third straigth year, soccer fans will be able to follow the Montreal Impact on Le Réseau des sports (RDS), as six games will be broadcast in 2004 on the French all-sports station. Impact fans all across the province will get their first glimpse at the squad put together by head coach Nick DeSantis on Sunday, June 6 at 4 pm, as the team will host the Richmond Kickers at Claude Robillard Stadium. It will be Montreal’s third home game of the season.
Five of the six games to be broadcast will be during the second half of the season, when the Impact will try to finish on top of its division for the third straigth year. There will be three broadcasts in July: Friday, July 9 in Rochester against the Rhinos, as well as two consecutive Wednesdays, July 14 and 21, at home against Syracuse and Calgary, respectively. Two more games will follow in August, Friday the 6th against Vancouver and Sunday the 29th against Richmond. The last RDS broadcast will coincide with the team’s last match-up of the regular season.
"We are very happy to be able to count on the support of Le Réseau des sports again this year," said Mr. Tony Laurenzana, the Impact’s Vice President Marketing and Administration. "RDS is an important partnership for us, not only because they are the Impact’s official broadcaster, but also because they will provide the team with visibility throughout the season, which is an important promotional asset."
"RDS continues to offer first-rate visibility to our professional sports teams. The broadcast of Impact games will also profit from the enthusiasm surrounding Euro 2004, which will be broadcast on our airwaves this June," said Mr. François Messier, Vice President for programming at Le Réseau des sports.
Four of the six broadcasts will be live on RDS. Only the July 9 game in Rochester and the August 6 match against Vancouver will be presented on a tape-delayed basis. Those two games, however, will be live on Fox Sports World, giving the Montreal club visibility all across North America. Once again this year, FSW will broadcast A-League games on Friday nights.
The Impact will kick off its season April 25 in Puerto Rico against the Islanders. The home opener at Claude Robillard Stadium will be Sunday, May 16 against the Virginia Beach Mariners.
The games to be broadcast on RDS in 2004:
June 6 vs Richmond – 4 pm
July 9 @ Rochester – 8 pm*
July 14 vs Syracuse – 7:30 pm
July 21 vs Calgary – 7:30 pm
August 6 vs Vancouver – 8 pm*
August 29 vs Richmond – 4 pm
* tape-delayed on RDS, live on Fox Sports World
-30-
SOURCE:
bcomm
INFO:
Stéphane Banfi
514-328-3668 (ext. 27)
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:49 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
The subject of movable grass fields was mentioned in a previous thread. Here's an interesting article from Monday's Vancouver Sun. (White Rock is about 45 km southwest of Vancouver, a couple minutes from the US border.)
PORTABLE SOCCER FIELD CONCEPT TAKES ROOT IN WHITE ROCK
Yvonne Zacharias
Vancouver Sun
We've all heard of portable toilets, portable kitchens and even portable dog-training studios.
But a portable soccer field?
It took two turf professors in the U.S. to come up with this one. A U.S. company bought the idea, tweaked it and started selling it. Now, an enterprising businessman in Surrey is trying to plant the seeds of the have-grass-will-travel concept here.
Is the grass really greener with this solution?
The City of White Rock will find out. It has become the first customer in Canada to use the grass-in-a-tray system in a sports field although it has taken root in various places throughout the U.S. and in Athens for this summer's Olympic Games.
What we are talking about here is a series of interconnecting 14.4-square-foot trays made of high-density polyethylene that you plant in the earth with a forklift and fill with turf. The trays can be removed or switched around.
The cost of each tray, filled and installed, is $225. Not cheap, but Dale Kitsul, parks manager in White Rock, figured it was cheaper than having three city workers spend several days digging up worn spots in a soccer field, like in front of the goal posts, and reseeding or moving grass from behind the goal posts in front.
It is also preferable to artificial turf which, the makers of instant grass would argue, tends to burn knees, get hot, doesn't feel the same as the real thing and is not as durable as their product which is guaranteed for 20 years. Its manufacturers also claim it drains much better than grass planted directly into the ground.
The idea for the turf modules began to germinate in 1993 when the governing body in the U.S. for world soccer decreed that it wanted natural playing fields for the 1994 World Cup.
Two turf professors, Trey Rogers in Michigan State University and Kenry Indyk at Rutgers University, developed the idea of moveable trays.
John Patton, an agronomist with a Georgia-based company called GreenTech, said his company bought in and became the manufacturer.
It was first used in Detroit. Michigan State University and Virginia Tech now have football fields composed of the modules. In the case of the latter, 5,000 were installed. But it is hugely expensive to do an entire field.
David Wall, whose company, Premier Pacific Seeds Ltd., is distributing the modules here, estimates it would cost around $1.5 million to do a two-acre field. That's about $300,000 more than artificial turf.
Instead, he expects customers like the City of White Rock to use the modules selectively in areas of fields that tend to wear out. He also sees a huge market for the product in rooftop gardens. It is already in use in an 8,000-square-foot rooftop garden in Lindsay, Ont.
Kitsul said White Rock installed 10 modules in a playing field in Centennial Park on an experimental basis on Jan. 29. He estimates that by the time the city installs the modules in both goal mouths, it will have spent $12,000, compared to around $22,000 for an artificial field.
He doesn't know what the comparative cost would be of having three city workers dig up the sod over several days each year for the next 20 years but he expects it would be a whole lot more than the cost of buying and installing the modules.
"This is definitely on the cutting edge," said Kitsul.
Wall got interested largely because he is a self-described soccer fanatic. He and his kids play the game. They don't like artificial turf.
He said the City of Revelstoke, the Vancouver's Whitecaps soccer team and the operators of Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton have all expressed a key interest in the system.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:26 AM from IP address 24.64.223.204
Went at lunchtime to get tickets for the upcomong game between Glasgow Rangers and AS Roma. Was surprised how many tickets that were sold already. Got some tickets in the nosebleed area of the 500 section. Hope the game will be thrilling. anyone know how much the CSA will get from this game. Hope it will be alot so they can help the National Teams get more games.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 8:18 PM from IP address 64.7.131.23
Soccer fans waste no time buying tickets for Celtic-Roma game at SkyDome
TORONTO (CP) - Soccer fans snapped up some 25,000 tickets in one day for the exhibition game at SkyDome between Glasgow Celtic and AS Roma, a source said Wednesday.
The July 31 game is the lone Canadian stop on the 2004 ChampionsWorld Series, which also includes European powerhouses Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Liverpool, AC Milan, Porto and Manchester United.
A spokesman for ChampionsWorld in New Jersey said Wednesday that the company does not announce sales figures until events were sold out. He did confirm that the Toronto sales were among the hottest for the series.
A source, however, said 25,000 tickets - almost half of the 53,000 available - were sold Tuesday when tickets went on sale at noon.
The nine-game tour, which runs from July 24 to Aug. 3, also includes stops in Chicago, East Rutherford, N.J., East Hartford, Conn., Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Seattle.
Organizers plan to cover SkyDome's artificial turf with a temporary natural grass pitch. Workers will start installing the grass as soon as the Toronto Blue Jays and New York Yankees wrap up a three-game series July 28.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 9:06 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
CITY TV reply about their new 'soccer hating' reporter's identity...
by
I simply asked for his name. Now the next question is has anyone seen him read a sportscast and mention soccer? I leave at 7:00am and he isn't on that early and I'm not home to watch the noon news.
The reporter you are asking about is our new BT/Citypulse/CP24 reporter Dave Pinton. He came from CityTV Vancouver, where he was a sports reporter, but now he will be reporting news stories here in Toronto. You can catch him daily on BT and CityPulse at Noon.
-----Original Message-----
From: Internet-Interactive-Site Administration
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:29 PM
To: Internet-Breakfast Television
Subject: FW: BreakfastTelevision
------------------------------------------------------------
CHUM Television's Interactive Department
------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Glover [robing@eol.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:17 PM
To: interactivesiteadmin@citytv.com
Subject: BreakfastTelevision
On Monday’s show (I think) you introduced a new sports guy who’d worked in your Vancouver station. He did a spot from his last Vancouver broadcast where he was wearing a Canucks hockey sweater and then a Maple Leafs sweater taking comments from fans. I missed his name.
Who is this man and what time will his sports broadcasts be on?
Thanks for any help.
Robin
robing@eol.ca
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 7:55 PM from IP address 64.56.225.118
Rosters
COSTA RICA
GK: Adrián De Lemos (CS Herediano), Ricardo González (LD Alajuelense), Alexander Jara (Santa Barbara);
DF: Pablo Chinchilla (LD Alajuelense), Junior Díaz (CS Herediano), Jervis Drummond (Deportivo Saprissa), Gilberto Martínez (Brescia/ITA), Luis Marín (LD Alajuelense), Douglas Sequeira (Deportivo Saprissa), Mauricio Wright (CS Herediano);
MD: Try Bennett (CS Herediano), Steven Bryce (LD Alajuelense), Walter Centeno (Deportivo Saprissa), Juan Bautista Esquivel (Deportivo Saprissa), Leonardo González (CS Herediano), Alonso Solís (Deportivo Saprissa), Mauricio Solís (Irapuato/MEX);
AT: Ronald Gómez (Irapuato/MEX), Froylán Ledezma (LD Alajuelense), Alvaro Saborío (Deportivo Saprissa).
TD: Steve SAMPSON
GUATEMALA
GK: Ricardo Foster (Aurora FC), Miguel Kleé (Cobán Imperial);
DF: Eddy Cabrera (Cobán Imperial), Gustavo Cabrera (CSD Comunicaciones), Denis Chen (CSD Municipal), Manuel Flores (Deportivo Zacapa), Néstor Martínez (CSD Comunicaciones), Pablo Melgar (Aurora FC), Nelson Morales (Cobán Imperial);
MD: Héctor Aguirre (Aurora FC), Fredy García (CSD Municipal), Sergio Guevara (CSD Municipal), Martín Machón (CSD Comunicaciones), Waldo Pérez (CSD Comunicaciones), Guillermo Ramírez (CSD Municipal), Gonzalo Romero (CSD Municipal), José Zacarías (Marquense);
AT: Mario Acevedo (CSD Comunicaciones), Walter Estrada (Cobán Imperial), Carlos Figueroa (CSD Municipal), Edwin Godoy (Deportivo Jalapa), Mario Rodríguez (CSD Comunicaciones).
TD: Ramón MARADIAGA
HONDURAS
GK: Donis Escobar (CD Olimpia), Hector Medina (Real CD España), Noel Valladares (CD Motagua);
DF: Victor Bernardez (CD Motagua), Maynor Figueroa (CD Olimpia), Junior Izaguirre (CD Motagua), Nery Medina (CD Motagua), Milton Palacios (CD Olimpia), Wilson Palacios (CD Olimpia), Roy Posas (CD Motagua);
MD: Elkin Gonzalez (Real CD España), Walter Lopez (CD Marathón), Elmer Marin (CD Olimpia), Emil Martinez (CD Marathón), Victor Mena (CD Motagua), José Luis Pineda (CD Olimpia);
AT: Denilson Costa (CD Marathón), Marcelo Ferreira (CD Olimpia), Francisco Ramírez (CD Platense), Wilmer Velásquez (CD Olimpia).
TD: Bora MILUTINOVIC
JAMAICA
GK: Aaron Lawrence (Reno FC), Donovan Ricketts (Village United FC);
DF: Claude Davis (Hazard United FC), Fabian Davis, Ian Goodison (Tranmere Rovers/ENG), Tyrone Marshall (Los Angeles Galaxy/USA), Gerald Neil (Arnett Gardens FC), Garfield Reid, Damion Stewart, Craig Ziadie (NY/NJ MetroStars/USA);
MD: Cornel Chin-Sue (Arnett Gardens FC), Ricardo Fuller (Preston/ENG), Jermaine Hue (Harbour View FC), Micah Hyde (Watford FC/ENG), Jermaine Johnson (Bolton Wanderers FC/ENG), Richard Langley (Cardiff City FC/ENG), Jonathan Williams, Andrew Williams (Chicago Fire/USA);
AT: Darren Byfield (Sunderland/ENG), Onandi Lowe (Rushden & D. FC), Damani Ralph (Chicago Fire/USA).
TD: Carl BROWN
MEXICO
GK: Moisés Muñoz (CA Monarcas Morelia), Oswaldo Sánchez (CD Guadalajara);
DF: Héctor Altamirano (Club Santos Laguna), Omar Briceño (Tigres UANL), Salvador Carmona (CD Guadalajara), Duilio Davino (Club América), Rafael Márquez (Barcelona FC/ESP), Mario Pérez (CD Necaxa), Francisco Javier Rodríguez (CD Guadalajara);
MD: Rafaél García (CD Toluca), Diego Martínez (CD Necaxa), Israel López (CD Toluca), Pavel Pardo (Club América), Gerardo Torrado (Sevilla/ESP);
AT: Jared Borgetti (Club Santos Laguna), Jose de Jesús Mendoza (Club América), Daniel Osorno (CF Monterrey), Miguel Zepeda (CD Toluca).
TD: Ricardo LAVOLPE
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO
GK: Shaka Hislop (Portsmouth/ENG), Daurance Williams (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh);
DF: Marvin Andrews (Livingston), Derek King (Joe Public FC), Dennis Lawrence (Wrexham/ENG), Anton Pierre (Defence Force), Anthony Rougier (Brentford/ENG), Brent Sancho (Dundee/SCO);
MD: Kerry Baptiste (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh), Carlos Edwards (Wrexham/ENG), Angus Eve (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh), Kerwyn Jemmot (W Connection FC), Stokely Mason (W Connection FC), Brent Rahim (Falkirk/ENG), Hector Sam (Wrexham), Conrad Smith;
AT: Stern John (Birmingham City/ENG), Cornell Glen (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh), Conrod Smith (Caledonia AIA).
TD: Bertille ST. CLAIR
USA
GK: Brad Friedel (Blackburn Rovers/ENG), Jonny Walker (NY/NJ MetroStars);
DF: Gregg Berhalter (Energie Cottbus/GER), Carlos Bocanegra (Fulham FC/ENG), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96/GER), Pablo Mastroeni (Colorado Rapids), Tony Sanneh (FC Nurnberg/GER);
MD: DaMarcus Beasley (Chicago Fire), Bobby Convey (D.C. United), Chris Klein (Kansas City Wizards), Kyle Martino (Columbus Crew), Clint Mathis (Hannover 96/GER), Claudio Reyna (Manchester City/ENG), Kerry Zavagnin (Kansas City Wizards);
AT: Conor Casey (Karlsruher/GER), Brian McBride (Fulham FC/ENG), Josh Wolff (Kansas City Wizards).
TD: Bruce ARENA
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 8:42 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
You're Kevan Pipe smear campaign is getting really lame and quite boring. If it wasn't for the IPs I'd think you and your evil twin FAN were the same person.
What have you got - A PowerPC That Can Change IP Address?
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:11 AM from IP address 198.164.199.23
inactivity of our national team is not the way to prepare our team for the world cup and something has to be done now.
Yallop has been on the job for more than 4 months and what progress has he made with the team, 1/3 of the year already gone by.
you saw the end results with the women olympic team a catastrophic tournament due to inacativity after the world cup.
how else can you explain loosing to a team we beat 9-0 six months ago.
everybody that is serious about the world cup is already in gear except for our team and no sign of when we will get to see them on home soil.
simply pathetic.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 10:22 AM from IP address 209.226.119.78
Common on Roy, this is not a smear campaign. Kevan's time has come, and I will not rest until that happens. I point out the facts as I see them, and people are entitled to disagree. Personally, this is the most urgent matter in Canadian soccer today and that is where my focus shall remain.
All the best.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 11:36 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
I know it is difficult when all you have seen is complacency and failure you begin to accept it and you certainly expect it.
It has been the same people virtually for 20 years they just keep switching hats.I dont know Andy Sharpe or Kevin Pipe they to me are just part of a collective that has horrible.
Yes I am sure they try their best but its not a boy scout club if you fail you resign or get fired.
Robert tried to point out that the CSA will not receive praise from hardly anyone for bringing the MNT from the world cup 86 to 91st ranking today it wouldnt make sense.
So naturally you hear lots of critical comments.
There are effective ways of changing the current regime at the CSA and yes you can make a change. I have personally changed several boards and other institutional governing bodies.
But first you have to see if there is any will or desire for it from the people otherwise its pointless.
Thats the reason you discuss it on places like this forum and other meetings of the soccer public.
Second you have to create and organize the people who are willing and capable.
Unless you do the ground work now you will have no chance of acheiving any significant change by the upcoming world cup or the one after that.
If no one supports or cares about the present condition of the CSA then your right leave it alone and maybe one day through some form of luck or fate they will suceeed and we will all be happy.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 6:55 PM from IP address 64.231.157.96
For those who doubt, check out "Twelve Angry Men" an old black and white flick with Henry Fonda (Juror #8). It's about a jury deciding the fate of an accused. All but one are convinced of a unanimous verdict. Slowly, one by one, they are persuaded by Juror #8 to change their decision. You have to set aside personal value judgements and examine only the facts. That's all I ask, just examine the facts and leave your emotions out of it. If nothing else you'll watch spend two hours watching an entertaining flick.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 8:23 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
CARSON, California, March 31 (Reuters) - First-half goals from Rafael Garcia and Diego Martinez gave Mexico a 2-0 win over Costa Rica in a friendly international in California on Wednesday.
ADVERTISEMENT
I'm a:
Seeking a:
Age:
to
City or Zip:
Search The clash between the old rivals produced plenty of passion early on with five players cautioned in the first 30 minutes.
Mexico were the more cohesive team and deservedly took the lead in the 13th minute when midfielder Garcia met a cross from Hector Altamirano and sent the ball into the roof of the net with a well struck left-foot volley.
The advantage was doubled four minutes before the break when a pass from Pavel Pardo found substitute Martinez unmarked around 15 metres from goal and he fired in a low shot.
Martinez had come on in the 10th minute following an injury to Sevilla's Gerardo Torrado. Officials said the injury was not serious.
Costa Rica nearly pulled a goal back in the 59th minute when striker Froyland Ledezma made a jinxing run into the penalty area and set up Junior Diaz but his low shot was well saved by Mexican goalkeeper Oswaldo Sanchez.
They had another great chance when substitute Steven Bryce broke clear of the Mexican defence only to shoot straight at advancing keeper Sanchez.
Sanchez was forced to make two outstanding blocks in quick succession in the 79th minute from Alvaro Saborio and Alonso Solis as Costa Rica fought bravely to try and get back in the game.
"I felt Mexico was the better team tonight with a much faster style, much better transition game," Costa Rica's American coach Steve Sampson said.
He added that his team improved dramatically in the second half but said the outstanding performance of Mexican keeper Sanchez had made the difference.
Both teams are due to begin their 2006 World Cup qualifying campaigns on June 12. Costa Rica face Cuba while Mexico's first opponents are Dominica.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 3:46 AM from IP address 24.79.45.117
By Shaun Fuentes, TTFF communications officer in Cairo.
A second half goal by Birmingham City striker Stern John capped off a fighting performance by Trinidad and Tobago’s senior team as they were narrowly defeated 2-1 by Egypt at the Arab Contractors Stadium, Cairo on Wednesday evening.
Playing before a vibrant crowd of around 13,000 which included a small group of T&T fans with the red, white and black flag, the Angus Eve captained team came back strongly to make a game of it after conceding two early second half goals.
John had given T&T a chance of coming away with at least a draw when he met a right side cross from Carlos Edwards and chest trapped before hitting home with his left foot from close up past goalkeeper Esam Hadary.
Playing against a well-knit Egypt side, T&T, though forced on the backfoot in the early stages against a quick running Egypt outfit, were never out of the contest and coach Bertille St Clair was left with a lot of positives from the affair.
St Clair, although still disappointed with a losing result, was satisfied with certain areas of the performance which will be shown delayed on local television in April.
“It was a decent game for us and while there is still work to do, there was some positive aspects which gave us some cause for satisfaction,” St Clair told TTFF Media after the game. “We gave up a soft goal but giving a good run away to Egypt and forcing a goal back says something about the character of the team. This game gave us a lot to build on. There are obviously some mistakes for us to correct and again this shows that these are the type of games we need to play on a regular basis. We will back in training and aiming to get it right before the campaign kicks off in June” he added.
T&T started with both Carlos Edwards and Brent Rahim in midfield in a 3-5-2 system, opting to start Wrexham striker Hector Sam alongside John having planned to throw the speedy Cornell Glenn into the attack in the second half.
The Egyptians had the better of the early tries on goal with goalscorer Osama Hosan heading over bar inside the fifth minute and then veteran Hosam Hosan forcing Rahim to scramble away a dangerous cross from inside the six yard box soon after.
Tall defender Dennis Lawrence had T&T’s first worthwhile attempt on goal when his header from eve’s left side free kick went wide just after the quarter hour mark.
Mohamed Treka and Osama Hasan had further tries on Shaka Hislop’s goal but it was T&T who enjoyed the better of the closing stages in the first half, going close to scoring on the three occasions just before the interval whistle.
Glenn entered in place of Sam and his presence brought some life to the T&T attack. Edwards served one from the right and John connected on a half volley forcing Hadary to pull off an excellent one handed save to give T&T a corner. Then Glenn met another right side delivery but his header from deep inside the box brought another fine reflex save from Hadary. T&T were peppering the Egyptian goal at that point as Eve curled a free kick in from the left but Lawrence’s long legs couldn’t force the ball home and the host scrambled to safety.
Strong midfield play by Anthony Rougier and courageous defending by Marvin Andrews, Brent Sancho and Lawrence with Hislop doing his fair share kept T&T in touch with the opposition.
But game swung again as the second half commenced and Treka was the one getting the reason to celebrate. First he directed an effort over bar but made up in the 60th minute when he collected a loose clearance and saw his shot take a deflection on its way past Hislop.
T&T countered soon after the restart when a decent build up led to Rahim centering from the right but John was heavily policed deep in the box and the bal was pushed out for a corner.
Six minutes later Egypt struck a second time when a lapse in concentration at the back resulted in a free kick to Egypt which caught the T&T defense flatfooted as Abdel Haly headed home from a left side free kick by Tarek Sayed.
T&T tried to hit back a minute later when Rahim centred again from the right but John’s run to goal was cut out by a quickly advancing Hadary.
Eve and company didn’t hang their heads though and when John struck, there was that little sensing that the “Soca Warriors” would be back into the proceedings but they had only a creditable performance to take back home.
T&T’s next assignment is expected to be in April against an opposition to be announced while the May 23 clash with Iraq in London is also on the cards. The overseas-based pros return to London on Thursday while the rest of the T&T contingent will overnight there on Thrusday before arriving home on Friday evening.
T&T Line-Up:
Shaka Hislop, Brent Sancho, Dennis Lawrence, Marvin Andrews, Stokely Mason, Carlos Edwards, Anthony Rougier, Brent Rahim (Anton Pierre 75th), Angus Eve, Stern John, Hector Sam (Cornell Glenn 38th - Kerry Baptiste 89th).
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 6:29 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
The group trying to bring a team to northeast Ohio has termed a 2005 start "highly unlikely", with a target now established for 2006 or later.
It seems more and more that unless a municipality in the Cleveland metropolitan meets Wolstein halfway in funding for a planned soccer-specific stadium, hopes for an expansion franchise will be pushed further and further back on the calendar. At first, Wolstein was given the opportunity via a letter of intent to start a team in 2005 - but now the investor team trying to bring a club to Cleveland is looking to cement a start a year later.
"There isn't a set deadline yet," commentated Paul Garofolo, Wolstein's right-hand man and currently President and General Manager of the indoor Cleveland Force team. "But I think the reality of what we are trying to get accomplished here will push this project to 2006...although no official announcement has been made by MLS for us on that, but I think if you start counting the months and work your way backwards you really are looking at 2006."
Wolstein is still sticking to his aim of a $110 million dollar stadium complex, mostly funded through local money. But no concrete interest within in the city limits or the outbound suburbs was bubbled to the surface, leaving Wolstein high and dry in his pursuit of a team.
A self-imposed deadline by Wolstein expires this weekend, but he is willing to overlook that in order to keep his intentions alive.
"Things move so slowly around here," Wolstein said in an interview with the Cleveland Plain-Dealer. "I'm going to let what's simmering simmer until the league calls me up and says, 'If you can't do it, you can't do it, we'll take the franchise back.' "
MLS has not established a deadline for Wolstein, and he continues to forgo any chance of his team playing in the NFL's Browns new stadium.
"It shouldn't even be discussed," said Wolstein, who formerly owned an indoor soccer team in Cleveland. "You can't play this game in a 75,000-seat stadium, and you can't play in a stadium you don't own. You need the revenues. You lose a fortune with the team. The only way to get it back is with ancillary revenues such as parking, signage, food and beverages."
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:32 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Not sure this article makes sense. Some of the most obvious gaps in the A League where there is no MLS competition like Philadelphia, San Diego, St. Louis, Baltimore and Cleveland can be accounted for by the presence of a strong indoor soccer history. Florida is the void that the A League should be able to fill thanks to the contraction of the Fusion and the Mutiny.
The director of the A-League and the United Soccer League hopes that the professional soccer "void" that inhabits his home city is filled sooner than later.
Tim Holt, the head of American soccer's second division, is a native of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - one of the country's biggest media markets and population centres. But with the demise of the WUSA's Freedom, the city is without a pro team. The third division PSL Harrisburg City Islanders, nearly two hours away, is the closest team to Philadelphia's metro area.
"I grew up in suburban Philadelphia (the north-western town of Radnor)," said Holt in a Q and A session with fans on TSV Gold, "so it pains me that there is no men's professional soccer in this market. From an A-League standpoint, there has not been a prospective owner approach us with a solid business plan and an A-League appropriate stadium. Villanova University is a possibility. (The NFL's Eagles') Lincoln Financial Field is too big and likely too expensive."
"The spectre of MLS expansion into the market may have kept some of the area's main soccer/business people away from pursuing an A-League franchise, however we remain very interested in this market at the A-League, PSL, and PDL levels."
Villanova is where the Freedom played, but is not the prototypical home for a team with its turf field. The city has a rich history on the youth level, with a healthy participation of both sexes in the game. Holt believes that while the Philadelphia sports scene is crowded to say the least, a team could survive and thrive.
"The area gets a bad rap nationally as being negative and parochial, however no other American city can match the passion and support fans will show a well-managed and competitive professional sports team. As anyone who has been to a big Flyers, Sixers, or Eagles game will attest, the atmosphere is the closest you will get to European soccer."
"The bottom line is Philadelphia absolutely needs professional soccer. The market is hungry for it and it will absolutely be a success if done right from day one in the proper venue."
MLS has kept Philadelphia on the edges of the expansion discussion, but an investor has not come to the forefront. The few rumours that have come from Philadelphia cantered around the owner of the Eagles, Jeffrey Lurie. But nothing beyond a preliminary inquiry has seemingly take place by Lurie and his people. There has been even less talk of an A-League team coming into the city.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:37 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Work begins in earnest early in April on the $22 million facility.
By Joseph Spector
Staff writer
(March 27, 2004) — In January, the Rochester Rhinos broke ground on their $22 million soccer stadium. The shovels haven’t been back since.
But that is expected to change in early April as the A-League soccer team plans to shut down a portion of Oak Street near Frontier Field and begin excavation work on the stadium, which will have 12,500 permanent seats and 4,500 removable bleacher seats.
”We’re very excited about getting close to getting this thing going,” said Rhinos majority owner Frank DuRoss.
A public meeting about the start of construction will be at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the 3rd-floor council chambers at City Hall, 30 Church St.
DuRoss said the reason it has taken nearly three months after the ceremonial groundbreaking to get the project going in earnest is because of some finishing touches, such as doing soil borings and other technical work.
But those finishing touches mean that any hope of playing games in this stadium this year has been lost. So the Rhinos, who will own the stadium, expect to open their season in April 2005 in the new facility.
The delays, however, have even made that a tight schedule. DuRoss said it will take nine to 13 months to complete the project.
But DuRoss vowed, “We’ll be playing all our games at that (new) stadium” in 2005.
Some work remains before the real shovels — not the ones dignitaries used in January — are in the ground. The team needs to receive from the city a site preparation and excavation permit, something expected soon, said Mitch Rowe, assistant to the deputy mayor.
Final designs are also being drafted.
The Rhinos recently renewed their one-year lease to play the 2004 season at Frontier Field, their current home.
Originally planned as a public and privately funded project, the stadium will now be paid almost entirely with taxpayers’ money. A $15 million state grant, coupled with $3 million in renovations around the site by the city, will pay most of it, with the Rhinos deferring millions in upfront costs.
The Rhinos initially pitched building a $50 million, 20,000-seat facility.
The team is leasing the 15-acre stadium parcel — from just south of Lyell Avenue, in the Brown Square neighborhood — for $1 a year for 45 years from the city.
The stadium, called PAETEC Park, also will house the Rochester Rattlers professional lacrosse team, high school and college sports, community events and concerts.
The hope is that the stadium could catapult the team into Major League Soccer, the sport’s top league.
The Rhinos have led the A-League in attendance with more than 11,000 fans per match since the team was founded in 1996.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 5:02 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Sweet signings from the Caps. People in Vancouver must be brain-dead if they don't have season tickets to support this club. Cheers.
MEDIA RELEASE
For Immediate Release: March 30, 2004
WHITECAPS SIGN XAUSA & NASH – SULENTIC RE-SIGNS
…CLUB GAINS PLAYERS WITH EUROPEAN AND NATIONAL TEAM EXPERIENCE
VANCOUVER, BC – Whitecaps FC Director of Soccer Operations Bob Lenarduzzi announced today that the club has signed midfielder/forward Davide Xausa, midfielder Martin Nash and re-signed midfielder John Sulentic. Xausa signed a three year deal with the club. Nash and Sulentic each signed one year deals.
Xausa, 28, joins the Whitecaps from Falkirk FC of the Scottish League First Division. The six-foot, 170-pound native of Anmore, BC is a member of the Canadian National Team and a veteran international player. Xausa has represented Canada 32 times in his career, most recently on January 18, 2003 in a friendly versus the U.S. His professional experience includes two years with the Scottish Premier League playing for Livingston, where he helped promote the club to the Premier League. Playing for Livingston, Xausa made one of his strongest offensive contributions in a 4-1 win over Dunfermline when he scored two goals to advance the club to the UEFA Cup in 2002. Xausa scored again in the UEFA Cup against Sturm Graz on October 3, 2002. Before playing with Livingston, Xausa played for Inverness and St. Johnstone FC of the Scottish League First Division.
Nash, 28, played the 2003 season with the Montreal Impact and is also a member of the Canadian National Team. The 5’11”, 170-pound Victoria native has represented Canada in 30 international matches, most recently in a friendly versus Barbados on January 18, 2004. Nash brings A-League Championship experience to the Whitecaps having won two straight titles in 2000 and 2001 with the Rochester Raging Rhinos. The midfielder has also been named Second Team All-Star and All A-League in his career. Nash played one season overseas in the English First and Second Divisions, and played for Vancouver earlier in his career during the 1995, 1996 and 1999 seasons, totaling eight goals and 13 assists in 58 games. Martin’s brother Steve is a guard for the NBA’s Dallas Mavericks and his sister Joanne plays soccer for the University of Victoria.
Sulentic, 24, enters his sixth season with the Whitecaps. In 87 games with the club, the midfielder has scored 27 goals and logged 6,218 minutes. The 5’10”, 160-pound native of Richmond is Vancouver’s all-time assist leader with 33 and this past season was selected as Whitecap’s Midfielder of the Year. In his rookie year with the club, Sulentic set an A-League record for most assists in a season with 19, finishing 10th in league scoring and was named Second Team All A-League. Sulentic is a recent addition to the Canadian National Team, earning his first appearance while starting in a friendly against Barbados on January 18, 2004.
The Whitecaps would like to remind fans that tickets are still available for the Celtic, Chelsea ChampionsWorld game in Seattle on July 24th. Since the announcement of the ChampionsWorld game was made one week ago, the Whitecaps have sold over 100 new season tickets. Fans can purchase their season tickets starting at just $99 for youth and seniors, and $149 for adults. For information on Whitecaps ticket packages call (604) 669-WAVE (9283) or visit whitecapsfc.com.
-30-
Ben Brown
Media Relations Manager
Whitecaps FC
P (604) 669-9283
F (604) 684-5173
www.whitecapsfc.com
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:21 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
...has his sights set on the MLS. Some 3 year contracts, Canadian internationals, a new stadium apparently in the works. Man, I'd love to see Vancouver reclaim its rightful title of soccer capital of North (of the Rio Grande) America.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 3:04 PM from IP address 167.129.240.10
Greg Kerfoot made a 5 year commitment to the Whitecaps so the three year contracts...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...probably are based on that. The stadium talk is what points to MLS IMO because Swangard is more than sufficient for the A League. The onus is very much on the soccer community in Vancouver to make sure Swangard regularly sells out to convince Greg Kerfoot that major investment in the sport would be a worthwhile long term investment opportunity and not just a case of throwing his money away.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 4:08 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Cleveland has no A-League team, yet you know damn well that an MLS team could fly there in an SSS - because you like the MLS.
The same is true for Vancouver, probably more so (I have know knowledge of the passion of soccer fans in Cleveland). But since it's in the A-League (which you don't like), the Vancouver fans have to "prove themselves" first?
I don't want to argue or lecture, but come on man - which is it (hint, it's the same for both cities, and it's the first paragraph)?
Sheesh.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 5:07 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
I hope you don't want to start up another east vs west rant fest. I think Vancouver would be a better market for MLS than Cleveland FWIW since Cleveland is very close to Columbus and doesn't add much in overall footprint terms. If Vancouver works well, Seattle won't be far behind.
To get into MLS there needs to be a viable fan base, an SSS and an investor/operator. In Vancouver's case Greg Kerfoot is clearly the potential I/O. He clearly has the financial resources to land and sustain an MLS franchise if he so desires. All I'm saying is that the onus is very much on the Whitecaps fanbase to convince Kerfoot that making a deeper more long term commitment to the sport would not be a case of throwing his money away on a white elephant stadium. Filling Swangard regularly this summer Rochester Raging Rhinos style would help. If 3000 show up instead maybe he'll think twice when the 5 years are up...
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 5:26 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
That you can't chose to form two conclusions . . .
by Mad Cap Mac
from the same observation based soley on whether you like one thing and dislike another. It's my usual criticism of your speculation - you use the same evidence to form two conclusions, which is counter to logic and to what actually happens.
Either an SSS can make MLS fly in most North American cities of 2 million people, or it can't. I think it can. You seem certain, in all your articles and comments, that Cleveland (or any other major city) will be a go in an SSS, with no proven A-League team (or even a struggling one), and then assume that since only 4-5K will come out to Swangard (which isn't the gem people think it is, other than by comparison to the even more pitiful ancient wrecks used by other teams) for the A-League, that somehow people in Vancouver have to "prove themselves" in a way nobody in Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Dallas, Boston, Columbus (for crying out loud), Kansas City (for crying out loud even more), etc had to. With an outdoor SSS of 20-25K, Vancouver would knock Rochester off for attendance, even at the A-League level, of that I have little doubt. You see the need for the stadium for soccer to work in Cleveland, but appear unable to see that the stadium is the main reason only 4K or so go to Swangard.
Either a decent facility is a deal breaker, or it isn't. I contend that it is. You contend that it is when it fits your opinion, but that certain fans have to "prove themselves" first where cities with existing A-League teams are concerned. It's a double-standard based on the fact you have convinced yourself that the MLS is more than it is, and the A-League is less than it is.
So why do you think that hare-brained Mexican teams, or MLS going into areas that have no A-League team to guage fan interest (Cleveland) is somehow a can't-miss proposition, and yet the fact that Vancouver already boasts one of the best supported clubs in the much poorer A-League somehow makes Vancouver a worse proposition? The only reason Rochester is in the running is because they've made the A-League work so well for them. How can you punish Vancouver, when there are only three or four other A-League teams as well run or supported? Surely Rochester, Vancouver, and Montreal have done the more than Cleveland to show they are the cities more likely to succeed at the MLS level, not ones that need to "prove themselves" even more? There are only a small percentage of fans who will come out to a crappy stadium to see the A-League. A larger pool (2 times? 3 times?) will come to a good stadium to watch the A-League. But 5 or 10 times as many will pay to watch the MLS. Surely that's obvious, and not just when it suits whatever point you are trying to make or refute.
Oh, and if you feel compelled to defend an American city because you slice the continent along east-west lines, I guess that speaks volumes about how Ontarians view themselves and their country compared to British Columbians. Out here, most people think the continent is sliced in half, north-south. So how Cleveland would be "us" to you is beyond me.
Cheers though.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 11:55 AM from IP address 24.68.180.65
what part of "I think Vancouver would be a better market for MLS than Cleveland"...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...don't you understand? The major impediment for any city to get in is finding an investor/operator. Vancouver has one readily available but he does not appear to be crazed enough about the sport to do it if he doesn't think it reprsents a sound long term investment. What clearly needs to happen is that the potential fans have to show up in sufficient numbers to help convince him to take the plunge.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:26 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
I'm not disputing that you said you feel Vancouver is a better market than Cleveland, since that should be obvious to anyone who knows North American soccer, and since the city sizes are comparable.
I am just wondering why you think the A-League situation in Vancouver isn't an indication that Vancouver has already shown it has an interest, even for a second tier league in a crappy facility. And, I'm wondering why if people will take a plunge on a relatively untested market like Cleveland, without even an A-League team, you seem to think there's no need there for people to "prove themselves" first as fans.
The same type of people that will show up for the MLS in a great facility will not all come out to the A-League in the dumps they play in. Krammerhead makes the same valid point, in his post on this thread.
An investor/operator is, as you say, key. But a SSS is part of that same package, at the MLS level or at the A-League level. Rochester, Charleston, Montreal and Vancouver don't have great venues (well, apparently Charleston's is good), but it's no coincidence that they do have among the best A-League facilities, and the best supported teams. Feel free to dispute that.
As many fans as are going to show up at Swangard already are. The fact that more don't show up isn't the result of Vancouver fans not "proving themselves," it's a reflection of the fact that, in any city, only a very small number of people will drive to a dump with no parking to watch the A-League, while a much larger number will drive to a great stadium with good parking (or transit connections) to watch MLS.
Which part of all that don't you understand? I realise it's not convenient for your "I love MLS / I hate A-Leage" mind block, but it's pretty obvious stuff.
Mr. Kerfoot is probably doing a cost/benefit analysis, and who can blame him? You seem to think he has billions in a bank account, and is only waiting for a few thousand more to pack Swangard, and then a new stadium is a certainty. Another thousand fans at Swangard are immaterial, because in a new SSS, the number of paying fans would triple or quadruple overnight anyway. And if the MLS was the carrot, the place would sell out. But would that make a profit? And is it worth the risk to a businessman?
I'd suggest that he doesn't have billions just sitting there idly, even if he does have millions. And I'd also suggest he's bright enough to know that there are other conditions far more important for making that plunge than whether the Caps go from 4 to 6K fans at a dump in the A-League. Things like government spending, the upcoming Olympics, partnering with the CFL, getting the right municipal tax structure, getting bus routes lined up, MLS expansion fees and procedures, etc.
These are the things that matter. This is obvious to anyone who reads all the MLS expansion articles you post here. If all those things are covered, then even Oklahoma City is in the running, apparently. Soccer-mad Vancouver would be a cinch, and it's fans have nothing left to prove. Kerfoot is bright enough to know that. Apparently, so are all the other guys that are building SSS's for their MLS teams. Whether the local A-League team is drawing 2K or 6K a game.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:57 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
...appears to want an SSS and MLS franchise to be his lasting legacy and to resurrect his glory days again as a sports team owner with the Cleveland Force when the MISL was briefly mounting a serious challenge to the NBA and NHL in the 80s. In Vancouver there have been some speculative quotes about MLS and preliminary talks about a stadium project but Greg Kerfoot seems nothing like as gung ho at this point as Bart Wolstein. I hope that changes and Vancouver gets an MLS franchise. I also hope TO and Montreal get MLS franchises as well and don't see it as an either/or scenario.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:36 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
the concept of only spending what you have is considered to be "ultra-conservative" if you are a government, but it is normal and prudent (and the only way you can survive) if you are a business or family?
Ralph Klein rambles, acts permanently drunk, and definitely seems a little bit scary; but he doesn't scare me half as much as all the half-wits who want to spend money we don't have, buy votes with hand-outs and slush funds, and can't face obvious realities (like we already have both public and private health care delivery), and would rather insult the public's intelligence by refusing to admit this. What a world.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:06 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
He'd be an embarrassment to us at G8 meetings, but really, is he any more so than Chretien? He's proven he can get right the only thing that matters - finances. Only with sound finances can you even have a debate upon social policy.
The whole left/right debate is dead. Demographics and Economics are forces that can not be stopped, or ignored. Far-left economics imploded in Eastern Europe, and near-left economics have built up massive debt everywhere in the world (except Alberta, and probably one or two other places). You can't run deficits to the end of time, or you go bankrupt. By default, so-called 'right' economics (ie you can only spend what you have) is the only way that works.
Klein may be a walking caricature, but he would do what needs to be done. Heck, he's the only one that is willing to point out that the Emperor Has No Clothes (ie we already have a two-tiered health care system).
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 4:38 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
...as your post indicates, any notion of right and left is individually centred. You make note of "left" economics running up huge deficits, yet the worst culprits were Ronnie Regan in the US - someone to the right of me - and in Canada - Don Getty of Alberta - his per captia deficits were higher even than Trudeau and Mulrooney. Don too was to the right of me. And of course, Sasaktchewan, which many would consider as left, rarely runs up deficits except when "right-wing" governments are in Charge. Ironic that Ralph claims credit for something Roy did first - balancing a provincial budget.
Keynesian economics are always interesting, and I'd love to see if they actually work some day. Unfortunately no government applies them as they were intended as all parties, no matter their ilk, can't help bribing us voters with our own dollars. So we go to extremes.
I think better terms are conservative and liberal economics since the left leaning CCF were much more conservative than the right leaning Social Credit (to use historical references hoping to avoid any inflamatory response from all sides) in their economic practices.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:04 PM from IP address 24.66.94.141
In the 80s, the PCs were not fiscally right at all (worse offenders than Trudeau), and today not only are the Liberals financially prudent (and "right"), but even the NDP is on board, and promising balanced budgets (which begs the question - what is their reason to exist then?). What a dizzy merry-go-round. Interesting thing about Reagan's spending - it bankrupted the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War. But did they know it would do that ahead of time?
It's funny too that, if you are on the "right" you get told by critics on the "left" that you must hate the poor. Yet the old Tory "noblesse oblige" is just that, and many of the wealthy are philanthropic. I am too, to the extent of my limited means; but I do make a distinction between a "hand-up" and a "hand-out;" and the problem is that we have too much of the latter. I'd cut about a half dozen ministries in their entireties if ever given power!
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:47 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
I note your two representations of the left were largely those of rhetoric. If you managed to throw the term "welfare bums" in there it'd be a nice collection of neo-conservative campaign slogans.
As you've acknowledged, all political parties in the baby boom era spent far too much, the result being our current political climate of fiscal responsibility. I fail to see why defecit spending is the only purpose of the NDP. As was mentioned by Gordon, Roy Romanow balanced his budgets. In addition, Tommy Douglas was quite good at building social programs. His governments went into temporary, managable debt and quickly paid it off. The NDP has a record no worse than any other political party.
The main purpose of the party now is that unlike the Liberals, the NDP isn't willing to claim that social programs can be maintained alongside widespread tax cuts. Obviously you aren't very interested in what the NDP has to offer, similarly Im not particularly interested in the Stephen Harper and Ralph Klein's of the world. I still would not question the existance of the Conservatives since the Liberals have co-opted so many neo-conservative values.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 11:13 PM from IP address 24.100.60.207
I'm not a news reporter. I'm posting on a web site.
"Neo-conservative" is always said with a sneer by lefties. Yes, I'm neo-conservative, in that I think you start with a plan and a budget, not an airy-fairy wish list. And no, I'm not neo-conservative, if by that you mean a religious kook who drones on about "family values," and who is a closet-hater of homosexuality, abortion, and anyone that doesn't go to his wacky church.
Unfortunately, all governments, of all nations, used left wing economic theory in the 60s-80s. In essence, the governing Tories and Liberals co-opted the economic message of the NDP, which was what people wanted to hear (ie everything is free). Through that time, the NDP was relevant (if misguided), because it was their "turf" everyone else was stealing. In the 1990s, the shift in world thinking was back to right wing economics (or else everything would have collapsed), and the Liberals moved to the right to gain and maintain power, and have ignored the left (NDP) who are irrelevant in that context, and focussed on demonising the group who are the only potential threat, the Tories (recently re-united). It's all rather interesting, but frustrating since there really was no right wing choice from the 60s-80s, and really hasn't been a real left wing choice since the 90s.
Of course, we were just following trends in the US and Britain. It's not like any Canadian politicians at the time were doing anything original. Most of our politicians, particularly the amorphous Liberal type, make all their decisions based on opinion polls. And, considering how uninformed the non-expert "man on the street" is about most topics (how can it be otherwise in a world where every subject is complicated?), relying on public opinion is not really "leadership."
Of course we're all "in favour" of schools and hospitals; but do we all think janitors at $25 an hour has anything to do with education or health? If you pay the janitor that, you have to give up something else. It's not 1959, when we had no economic competition (yet), despite what people like Jim Sinclair (BC Fed of Labour) seem to think.
That's my opinion. I know that many share it, and many don't. Just because someone else has an (incorrect) opinion, don't expect me to give it equal air time! That's for them to do. I'm not going to play devil's advocate for someone with impractical ideas.
The current NDP leader Jack Leyton said just the other day "when the roof is leaking, grandma's ill, and the kids are in college, it's not the time to pay off the mortgage." That is exhibit A on NDP thinking. Mr. Layton thinks that the cure to our debt is more debt. The medicine is more poison. His statement is deliciously ironic, because it was people of his mind-set that mortgaged our national house in the first place! If they hadn't, we'd have enough money to put the kids through college, pay grandma's medical bills, put on a new roof, and then take the whole family out to dinner to celebrate. I think Mr. Layton's analogy is brilliant, but can't figure out which neural connections in his brain aren't functioning, for him to draw the exact opposite conclusion to that of a logical person who isn't banking on a free ride. Like most intelligent people, I'm focussing on paying off my mortgage as fast as I can, to free up money later to help my kids and protect myself in my retirement. I'd love to live in NDP-World, where common sense is suspended, and your bills never have to be paid. Unfortunately, such a world already existed in the 60s-80s, and we're left now cleaning up the mess.
You mentioned welfare bums. Generally, I'd say most people on the social left think people can be saved by spending money on them, and people on the social right think that doing so is just a waste of money. I personally don't mind a "hand-up" to the mentally or physically retarded, or to those that genuinely need it, but really hate to see a "hand-out" that is for someone who has no desire to help themself. I'd rather be called hard-hearted than soft-headed, even though my track record of volunteering indicates that I am neither.
Before you lock me up and throw away the key, know a few things. First, I'm an atheist, and acknowledge what many 'soft Christian' people don't want to admit; that monotheism is the biggest force of evil in the world. That's obvious if you watch the news, but it's like pointing out the Emperor Has No Clothes - nobody else wants to do so. Same with health care - we already have two tiers, so lets get off the rhetoric, and figure out which aspects the public sector can do best (MRI clinics, CT scan clinics, private surgery clinics, etc), and which sectors public health care can do best (air evacuation, birthing services, emergency treatment, university and research facilities). I find it amazing that what I just wrote is considered so heretical by lefty zealots, when it's really just obvious and logical.
I have more than a mild dislike for the religious right. I have also, since high school, volunteered time working with mentally and physically handicapped people, youth soccer (surprise, surprise), and cadet musicians (off the top of my head). I say this to point out that we're all a little more complex than a label, and I include people I disagree with in that category too. There's a balance of fiscal and social left and right in all of us - it's just a debate about the degree. But without sound economics, argument about social policy is meaningless. You can't just draw up a wish list (because we all want schools and hospitals), you have to decide what else will go, because our grandparents built systems that are unsustainably large, and too costly.
As to tax cuts. Macroeconomics are more complicated than the average person can understand (not a dig at you, just reality). Suffice it to say that if your neighbour in the US has a tax system that is far more attractive to investors than yours, you have no choice but to move near them, to compete. In B.C., our competition is Alberta and Washington. We keep up with them, or we will lose. It's that simple. Otherwise, all the good intentions in the world are irrelevant, as you wave goodbye to your kids, and your job. In effect, all jurisdictions compete with each other for investment and jobs, and without that, you don't have the money to pay for anything. I appreciate that big unions don't buy into that, because their agenda is membership dues; but it's reality. We are competing with places like China, Mexico, and Eastern Europe, not just with other industrialised countries. China and Mexico do not waste money like we do (the current $100 and $200 Million boondoggles, the $1B+ useless gun registry, all the various politically-correct, special interest, vote-buying, slush fund ministries). All those programs are a drain on what your nation can do, and come at a cost. Something else has to give. Personally, I'd cut all the Women's Inequality and Business Hand-Out type ministries, and focus on National Security and Defence, Health, Education, and Transportation, with other neccessities like clean water, wildlife and game, etc as much smaller, but important, areas that are best done by the public, rather than private, sector. But that's not sexy, and doesn't buy as many votes as Women's Inequality and Business Hand-Out ministries do. Free flags, anyone? Imagine that being the most you ever achieved as a windbag politician who's hugely overrated.
Our tax levels have been too high, and out of whack with many of our competitors. This has cost us jobs, and therefore social programming revenue. However, 0% is obviously too low a level to maintain the services we need. Somewhere between 0 and the 50% we currently pay in taxes is the optimum point. Don't believe me on the 50% figure? Add up the sales tax you pay every year. Add up all the government fees and municipal property tax you pay every year. Then remember that you are paying income tax again on your entire income, including all those taxes I just mentioned.
The problem is that the optimum tax level keeps shifting, relative to our competition and other factors. The current way that most middle of the road people in western nations have accepted fiscal restraint is an acknoledgment by them that tax levels and spending were too high. We have to get back to the right level, and those that have been drinking from the trough haven't enjoyed the move.
Cheers!
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 2:02 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
..."neo-conservative" as it is a term widely misunderstood as a result of being co-opted by a people who are, in fact, not neo-conservatives.
As for Layton's quote, either I've misunderstood you or you've misunderstood him as it has no relation to running deficits (which is what I think - perhaps incorrectly - you are saying)rather it is in relation to paying off accumulated debt at an accelerated rate. i.e. making extra payments on the mortgage while the roof leaks and grandma has medical bills. Now, whether one agrees with him or not that the roof is leaking or grandma is really sick is another matter.
The issue of a hand-up versus a hand-out is an interesting one.
The most successful social program in North America that I can think of (aside from medicare which I don't actually conisder a social program) is the GI Bill in the US. Definitely a hand-up and hugely succesful by any criteria and contributed (and continues to contribute) to the growth of wealth in the US which in turn results in greater revenues for the government.
Generally, however, a hand-up cost more than hand-out which are generally the minimum. For example, an unskilled single mom on welfare is best given a hand-up by providing decent child care and job training, over the short term much more expensive than monthly welfare payments. The former promotes indepence while the later fosters dependance - a dependance most often passed down to the next generation.
Aggrevating things of course, are the layabouts who think the world owes them a living. This annoys the hell out of all walks and usually results in the decision to go for the cheaper program (hand-outs). There is of course, underlying this whole concept of social programs, the question of birthright. To what extent do the citizens of a community/province/nation have an interest in the wealth (resources) of the community/province/nation? And then, how should that share be reflected? I think it hard to argue that a native BC boy should be left to die on the streets because he is a rummy, lazy, and stupid. On the flip side, I don't think he is entitled to the same quality of life that a guy busting his a$$ 50+ hours a week simply because of an accident of birth.
I also don't 100% buy the having to compete with one's neighbors" bit. Different jurisdictions have different resources. Obviously things can't get too out of balance, but for a province like Saskatchewan to try to match Alberta is a recipe for disaster. Why the heck would I stay in Saskatchewan paying Alberta tax levels but getting far less in quality of life. I'd move back to Alberta. In this case, Saskatchewan would be racing to the bottom. The whacky right doesn't get that here. Nor does the whacky left get that a guy out there creating wealth is going to bugger off if too much of it gets taken away. So you have to niche market yourself. Vancouver and Victoria offer a quality of life that Edmonton, Calgary and Saskatoon can't match. That gives some room to be different. But the difference has to be reasonable.
Anyway, this is getting way too far from the topic of soccer, so I'll stop.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 3:54 PM from IP address 167.129.240.10
I think Mr. Layton was pretty clear about where he stands on debt repayment. It's not a priority for him or his party, because it doesn't win votes from his electoral target. They don't understand it, and aren't interested in its effects as long as they get all the hand outs and freebies they feel they are entitled to. "Tax and spend" still appeals to large numbers of people, no matter how many times the incompetence of government is publicly demonstrated to the tune of $100M, $200M, or $1B - just give me my "free" flag.
Frankly, anyone who wants viable long term social programmes, and can't see how our debt financing is limiting our spending, probably also doesn't understand the phrase "short term pain for long term gain," since that what we are going to have to go through, for decades, to get back to level ground. Don't forget, the baby boomers are going to put a strain on social programmes that is going to make present health care costs pale by comparison. Wait for it - that pain starts in about 5 years.
"Neo-conservative" seems to have as many definitions as users. Literally it's "new conservative," whatever that means. To me it's a term of derision used by the moderate left, to tar anyone who dares to point out that the Emperor Has No Clothes (ie you can't run up government debt indefinitely).
I'm not saying that you have to be exactly the same as your neighbour - but you have to compete. If you have better social programmes, cleaner air, etc, that's a factor; but your tax rate, and the wages you are paying, have to be close enough for those less tangible things to be part of the equation. I think the proof that Canada hasn't been competing is pretty obvious in our brain drain to the U.S., and any economist can tell you why we've had one for decades. The only people stupid enough to pretend there haven't been economic reasons for that are politicians of the calibre of our last Prime Minister. No comment.
I'm as patriotic as anyone here, but I have to say, I don't blame my client, the nurse, who moved from B.C. to Washington, since she makes, after taxes and exchange, almost exactly double what she would make here. Our social net isn't THAT much better that it can compete with numbers like that. And our young mobile professionals are all in the same boat, and that's why we lose a disproportionately high number of them. And guess who generates more tax revenue - young, well educated professionals who vote Tory, or third-generation welfare bums who vote NDP?
You're right, let's get back to football. At least we know that "left wing" and "right wing" have definitions there we can all agree on. I'll drop the rest!
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 6:21 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
good post. I have no problem with someone who's viewpoint is different, when they are as informed as you are. To make points quickly in written form (or try to be clever), I sound more pointed than I really am. I don't want public water quality monitored by private companies, and I put a value on a Ministry of Wildlife and Game. Some things are better done by the Civil Service, no doubt about it. It's just that I feel such structures require even more scrutiny than corporations, since they are not subject to the motives of profit that (help) keep the private sector focussed on competition as a motive for lean operations. Though some days I wonder . . . and of course, we can't fossilise, and assume that because something has always been done by government, that that is the way it has to be to the end of time (Canada Health Act, anyone?), otherwise why do courier companies exist?
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 6:28 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
Quite frankly, I think its fairly obvious that you aren't a social conservative in the Christian zealot mould, particularly with your regular criticism of organized religion. I definitely differentiate between the so called fiscal and social conservatives, and thats one of the reasons I think the election of Harper will be detrimental to the new Conservatives. (Ill not get into that issue but I think Clement would have been the ideal man for the party).
Yes, I do agree that the economic situation is rather complicated, and that our economic reliance upon the United States and our general proximity does give us certain difficulties that other countries with successful social democratic traditions like those of Scandinavia.
That still does not preclude the fact that many of these reforms taken place in the last 15 years or so have dire long term consequences. I am speaking largely from an Ontario perspective here because it is what I am most familiar with.
Firstly, lets inspect post-secondary education. While the cost of tuition has not reached the level in the United States, on a world wide scale our tuition levels outside of Quebec are rather dismal. Most undergraduate students who are not receiving heavy parental aid will exit school with five figure debts. Six figures for those going to law or medical or graduate school. This has major economic implications. This leaves these people unable to inject funds through the consumer economy since they will be so preoccupied with paying down these debts which are only rivalled by the mortgage of my parents. While engineers and other high tech related graduates may be able to afford this, most will not. The only benefitting organizations will be the banks, who pay so little in taxes that the government will see little to none of this money. Of course, there are also the social implications of keeping lower class and those living in poverty outside of higher education.
I think I'll stop there considering I've spent the majority of the day writing (at a considerably more scholarly level than for internet messageboard consumption) and a rest is more than in order for the brain. I just wanted to give a bit of a rebuttal with a more in depth argument from the left that raises above the level of the typical election debate.
I'll just note this, strict ideological views rarely lead to any political progress in a democratic society. In general, when debates like this happen little is learned by opposite sides and it becomes the proverbial **** slinging war where little is learned and only serves to polarize politics to a point where nothing is done. It leads to a intellectually stagnant situation where no new ideas are developed.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 9:40 PM from IP address 66.185.85.76
Perspective is so important. Seniors want others to pay for their pills. Students want others to pay for their tuition. As soon as a person is no longer a student, all of a sudden paying everyone else's tuition is not quite as worthy of crusading for (until 25 years later, when it's your kids' turn, presumably). My problem is with hypocrites who keep changing what hand-outs they want from others as they age, and what new things they no longer feel should be paid for by themselves. I don't feel that people who plan for their retirements with RRSPs and for potential health problems with various health insurance policies (and give up holidays and "toys" to do so) should have to also subsidise the losers who pissed their paycheques away (or were too lazy to earn one).
I'm a big believer in user pay for things like education and non-emergency medical services. It's far more efficient than paying people to administer and collect taxes and funds. We're paying the same costs for service X in tax, but we're also paying for a dozen bureaucrats to handle it, and quite frankly $100M, $200M, and $1B is just the tip of the iceburg for what gets wasted by our bloated and unaffordable bureacracy.
If you want to get the long-term financial advantage of a university degree, suck it up and pay for it. If someone wants a degree that is "less marketable," then why should someone else pay for the cost of them "finding themself" for 5 or 10 years? I saw all those bearded Philosophy major guys, taking 10 years to earn a degree while they ranted in the Student Government. What a waste of tax-payer's money. I really don't see an alternative to student loan debt, any more than there is one to mortgage debt. Just because I don't like paying a mortgage (managed to work and pay for my university degrees) doesn't mean there is a workable alternative. And I certainly don't like banks! haha.
Basically, I'll vote for whatever party will do the most to cut government waste (ie spending), and in the process become most unpopular with all the snouts at the trough. A regular change of governing parties is the only way to achieve this in our system, so it's important for us to have at least two strong parties in each province, and federally.
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 5, 2004, 2:12 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
User pay education would be an unmitigated disaster...
by Gordon
...as everyone benefits far more than it costs. The americans have known that for 200 years. Universal compulsory education was an american invention, wisely copied by us. For all the talk of the high cost of american universities, the have an expansive array of decent quality affordable state university's and colleges. Far more american attend these than the Harvards, Rices & Stanfords. 200 years ago the american reaped the advantages of an educate work force. Back then grade 8, or whatever it was more than sufficient. Now, even the army is averaging 2 years of university. A well educated work force is a competitive advantage and even during the toughest times, unemployment among individuals ith post secondary education was quite low. That means people with jobs paying taxes, spending in their community and creating more jobs as a result. Given the current prominence of knowledge and information in the economy, things that dissuade people from pursuing higher education will have huge economic consequences. There will always be abuses - there is in everything, but the advantage far outweigh the disadvantages. If you want a system where elite universitys cost more, well, I don't have a problem with that. I'd be quite willing to plop the full price tag on anyone who takes their education and leaves the country within, say, 5 years as well.
This concept, IMO, goes back to the notion of hand-up versus hand-outs. As much as I despised most of what Maggie Thatcher did, she did do some smart things. Ripping apart he council housing system and encouraging home ownership was generally a good idea. It encourged responsibility and allowed people to build an asset. The GI bill in the US was a huge econmic impetus and possible the best social program of this century. Affordable education is something we can't afford to do without. The yanks also wisely allow people to write off the interest on their mortgage payments. In Canada we don't and it is absurd.
Programs and policies that get results have to be maintained. I worked for a community that decided that they wanted to go to user pay for no end of things. Some - like garbage collection - encouraged recycling and waste reduction without any of the negative consequences, while other, particulalry related to recreational facilities were disasters. Usage was reduced, causing user fees to go, causing the end of programs. This had consequences both in terms of paying for the fixed costs of the facility. Grafitti and vandalism also increased: Fewer activities for kids - particulalry those at risk - had predictable results.
I am more interested in results than ideology. And I have definite ideas about minimum standards that I think people are entitled to in this country. There is no one philosophy that has all the answers, IMO. Programs and policies that encourage - rather than coerce - self reliance always seem to work the best: Home ownership, education are two biggies I think. I also think we tend screw up good things by trying to punish everyone just to make sure we get the few who abuse the opportunities.
Anyway, I said I was going to stop and broke that promise. Sorry.
Posted on Apr 5, 2004, 8:46 PM from IP address 24.66.94.142
It seems a folly to use ‘government incompetence’ as a rallying cry for increased private sector service provision in the day and age of Enron, Tyco, and Worldcom. It’s this privatization which results in just as much, if not less public accountability.
And in the same vein, there are the Ontario Tories, who took responsibility of education property taxes away from elected school trustees. A bureaucrats-for-elected-politicians swap ultimately ends up in less accountability. Now unelected, government bureaucrats set our education property taxes. I thought the Conservatives were about smaller government and more accountability? And the private-school tax-credit? More bureaucrats, and a weaker public system to boot! Selling the LCBO? A short-term windfall to be sure, but long-term? Politically-sensitive planning at its abysmal best. Thankfully they were voted out before these last two could be achieved.
Privatizing the delivery of health care services, as evidenced in Ontario, is all fine and dandy on paper, however, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, it ends up costing more. (As evidenced by the US, where health care costs as a percentage of GDP are equal to Canada’s, and in some studies, higher.)
Of course, there are user fees. User fees are naturally not progressive, therefore having a greater negative effect on those in the lower classes, who have a lesser income and lower ability to pay. This means lower sales tax revenues for government, since the poor and lower middle class have lower wages for income tax and less to spend.
Governments lose out in terms of overall spending. Take the building and management of hospitals by private firms (and some private-sector service delivery). These firms must take out loans to build the facilities. Naturally, firms borrow money at a higher rate than governments. Costs increase there. Then there is the question of profit. These companies must make a profit on these services. Costs up again for the government. And if demand strangely decreases one year, or costs go up? Service quality decreases, and hospitals are more poorly managed. Ditto for firms who aren’t happy with a stable, consistent profit margin. The choice is clear: either attempt to re-negotiate the terms of the agreement with the government (not going to happen), or, reduce the quality of the services provided in the building, upkeep, service provision, and management of the facility.
All this mess leads to higher long-term costs, simply in the name of hiding the upfront capital cost of building, providing services, and managing these facilities. This costs the government more in the long run. What happened to the short-term pain versus long-term gain mantra?
Additionally, private delivery leads too more poorly paying jobs, in both the construction, delivery, and management of services. This decreases income tax revenue and decreases the purchasing power of these workers (sales tax) and reduces the amount of quality, stable, long term, well-paying good jobs within the economy.
The nursing home industry is a perfect example. Long-term care facilities in hospitals were closed, and user fees were introduced for those with long-term illnesses waiting in hospitals for long-term beds, in an attempt to push them to seek private sector care. This ignores the fact that those needing long-term nursing care who wait for public placements in hospitals are often are the ones who can’t afford these private services in the first place. Not everyone has a engineer of a daughter to pay for private care. Additionally, this maneuver was an attempt to rid themselves of well-paid hospital nurses in favour of more poorly-paid nursing home workers and nurses. Dollars lost income tax and purchasing taxes to the government as a result.
The Tory government then cut funding to public and charitable nursing facilities and introduced private sector long-term care. They forced the public sector to compete with the private sector for government-funded nursing home placements. Competition is good, right? Not when you consider that private nursing homes have to turn a profit. In order to compete with the charitable and public municipal nursing facilities they paid poorer wages and provided arguably poorer services.
Even then, when the private nursing homes were not making a high enough profit margin, what did they do? The Tories actually lowered care standards to reduce their costs for them! This forced public facilities, providing a higher standard of care, to lower patient care in an effort to compete, since the government awarded placements to the lowest bidders, and not to mention the fact that private nursing staff was more poorly paid. Service quality/provision takes a nosedive and good, higher-taxpaying jobs are lost in the process.
I’m sure if I mention that these nursing home conglomerates were big financial supporters of the Tories you’ll view it with skepticism. However, it is well-documented. Additionally, even with the government-funded placements and reductions in service standards, one of these providers slipped into bankruptcy. Good old Royal Crest, whose owners siphoned away millions, unaccountable to the public purse. And then we have the scandals of poor services, patients abused, etc., but I don’t want to come off as a bleeding heart.
Lets not forget that it will take more government and more money to overhaul these services. Just as blindly throwing more money at all of our problems is often a fallacy for change, the same is true for the idea that government can change systems with their magical paintbrush of reform. While the eventually bigger government that results can be spun into the lines of short-term pain versus long-term gain, the above policies don’t fit that idea whatsoever. Additionally, once larger bureaucratic control is consolidated by the government (in the name of being able to make these changes), what government is truly then downsize and reduce this power in essence reducing the control they accumulated?
Another example of this short-term-pain mantra inconsistency is the fact that these governments don’t last. And considering the reality, that a more centrist or left-of-the-Tories government will eventually be elected to mop up the unfinished mess (since Conservative governments are not unaffected by public outcry and politically-minded decision-making, and eventually slow their reform once people truly understand what is being undertaken), in the long-run it just does not make sense.
And to make it even worse, under the guidelines of the North American Free Trade Agreement, re-nationalizing industries which had been previously privatized (such as health) carries swift and hefty financial fines and penalties. So the idea that this is an experiment that can be tested, poked, and prodded at our will is a dangerous misconception once this flirtation has been proven destructive.
The irony of the situation is, with all this “long-term pain versus short-term gain”, it has been the Tory government which has consistently abdicated long-term gain in favour of short-term policies, such as hiding capital costs, offloading services to individuals, and selling off public corporations and utilities for one-time, single deficit-hiding fees.
History has consistently proven that it is the Conservative governments, elected with mantras of less government, have insistently spent more, and increased the size government in their efforts to change the system. yet when it comes to it, they resist true change, since it is politically untenable, leaving non-Conservatives to come in, mop up the mess, and, in the past, balance the budget.
No solutions lie in any of the far extremes of the political spectrum. People call for US-style government and hard-line right-wing policies are as misguided as those who press for the establishment of a second Sweden and refer to the upper class as the derisive bourgeoisie. Political polarization achieves little, and we need to go above that to truly succeed in this country.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 10:45 PM from IP address 69.158.27.154
...an article in the New England Journal of Medicine, about a year ago, showed that the average American tax payer pays more in [i]taxes[/i] for health care than the average Canadian. This does not include their health insurance payments, just the cost of VA hospitals and health insurance for civil servants. So, unless they happen to be a veteran or a civil servant, an American pays more taxes (than a Canadian) towards healthcare and gets nothing in return.
Indeed, one of the current dilema's for Canadian health care system is that the only options being posed are proven failures by access and cost standards (private health care is the best system in the world for encouraging medical advancement so it is not without its strong points). So we find the debate is not about improving the way we delivery health care in this country, rather the debate is about defending the status quo - which is clearly in need of overhaul - from a worse alternative.
I've yet to do any research on it, but apparently France has a model worth emulating (and I am taking this on faith from someone whose opinion I respect and who is an expert in this kind of thing). Unless we can get the Klein's, the Calvert's and the Martin's to get on the same page however, I fear we are doomed to emulate a seriously flawed model.
Posted on Apr 2, 2004, 8:33 AM from IP address 24.66.94.141
for health care, since they have a system that actually delivers most services months faster than the Canadian system does. In most industries a better and more efficient product is more expensive.
Many good points Gordon, especially in regards to how the debate is never allowed to develop, and always turns into some desperate rear-guard defence of something (one-tiered universal all-bills-paid health care) that doesn't even exist. It's ridiculous hearing how some pieces of legislation (Canada Health Act, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Indian Act, etc), that were drawn up decades ago are somehow so inviolate and sacrosanct that they can't ever be discussed intelligently. Sacred cows always provide the tastiest meat!
Also, in response to part of Marc's post, I agree that extremes of either side usually don't work, and we've seen some of that in B.C. in the last few years. Your points about bureacratisaion are not limited to the health field, as over-bureaucratisation is rampant in every government department (defence being my main interest).
And I agree that corporate middle managers are just as interested in empire-building as civil servants - I'm sure many of us see that in our jobs (I know I see more make-work-project departments in the companies I use than can possibly be required). The only true way to cut waste is to hire an external organisation to come in and rationalise companies or government departments. Let's face it, the people who have created the problem, and built the bloated and inefficient squares on the organisational chart are not only unlikely to fire themselves, their priorities have probably never even included cost-efficiency. When was the last time any department manager got promoted for eliminating his department?
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 5, 2004, 2:25 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
It's sort of like all the fundamentalist religions kicking around all over the world... Whenever you get a bunch of people following blindly(Right, left Islam, Christian or whatever), you know they are up to no good.
Talking about how big governments have become. Take a look at how big and clumsy and full of red tape that Ralph Klein's has become in the last few years.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 4:16 AM from IP address 24.67.166.55
...is specific to any political philosophy. Tax and spend can result in balanced budgets as easily as cut (spending) & cut (taxes). I think any and all political orientations have a fiduciary (and environmental) responsibility to future generations. Basically, the notion of not crapping in one's nest is neither right nor left.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 10:52 AM from IP address 167.129.240.10
Everyday, he finds a new reason for me to hate politicians. I don't think he likes soccer either. Maybe he could tell us all what happened to the beef bailout cash? Or maybe he could explain why rural Alberta, while shrinking, is growing in electoral powers? Talk about sponsorship perks.... How about Multi Corp? Did I mention he's not a fan of soccer? I suppose he'll eventually get around to helping the mentally ill. Maybe a bus ticket to Saskatchewan or something? My favourite is the throwing loose change at homeless guys. Not only is Ralph pissed out of his mind, he tells his driver to pull over so that he can curse at some guys trying to sleep in an overcrowded homeless shelter. Thats class, man. "The Working Homeless" A term I first heard after his thoughtful cuts to social spending. Yeah, Ralph gets the job done all right...He just does it on the backs of the poor and the sick and the old. I'm no fan of the fedeal liberals either or the reformed coservatives or whatever they dcall themselves but whenever I hear people praise "Ralph", I wanna puke. And he doesn't like soccer.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 4:09 AM from IP address 24.67.166.55
Many years ago, I used to drive a taxi in Calgary. On several occassion I was dispatched in to the St. Louis Hotel, a working-mans' establishment, to pick-up the then Mayor Ralph. The destination was always the same, his home in Lakeview. Recognizing me, he would say; "Take me home, James." He was always good-natured and although he had consumed alcohol, he was never drunk in my cab. Like many of my customers, he would socially unwind after work and have the responsibility to take a cab home. I also remember the times he would visit the single-mens hostile on 8th avenue and spend time with those not so fortunate. Yes, I also remember his firm stance on young and employable people looking for a free ride. Having lived in Vancouver for over a decade, I can sure notice the difference a Premier makes to a province. I never spoke about soccer with Ralph, but I know if a man like him had an interest in soccer, he would definately make a difference.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 11:23 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
First off, just because the Whitecaps don't fill Swangard doesn't make the stadium sufficient for A-League. First off the City of Burnaby charges an arm and a leg for rent. Just ask the SFU football team who chose to play a home playoff game at UBC last fall rather than pay Swangards rental fee. Then the city of Burnaby keeps all the money made at Whitecaps games from beer and food sales and in return lets the Whitecaps keep a whopping $2 from each parking car parked, which isn't much considering the stadium has little onsite parking. The fact that the Whitecaps pay high rent and get very little back at Swangard is one of the main reasons they are thinking about a new stadium.
Secondly, why is it that people think that you only need a new stadium if you can fill your present one? If we were talking nightclubs would we have the same way of thinking? If Kerfoot owned a rundown nightclub on the outskirts of town and had a chance to build a new nightclub in the city, with all the bell and whistles that one entails would he turn it down because he can't presently fill his crappy nightclub? No because he knows that he isn't presently filling what he has because of the state of the facilities.
Same goes for a new stadium. People don't fill Swangard because it is bush league. Presently downsized to 6100 (less now that they've installed new bleachers that go righ onto the track), and really poor amenities. Now I know someone is going to point out that you don't need more than one mens and womens bathrooms, or you don't need good food at games, etc etc. Well that may be true for the hardcore supporters, but we make up small numbers. The average fan wan't to go to a decent facility with decent amentites.
The Whitecaps stated to their season ticket holders that they plan on being a top "small franchise" team. Unless they have changed their minds I don't see the mseeking an MLS franchise.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 8:05 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
the only quote I've ever been able to find about MLS from Greg Kerfoot...
by London Ont. soccer fan
....is the following which is based on assumptions that may be outdated. The MLS franchise fee is now $US 10m not in the tens of millions and its annual losses that have to be met by all the I/Os given that the league collectively owns 51% of each franchise will drop due to the SSSs that are built or in the pipeline. Maybe the numbers work a bit better now?
A Chat with New Whitecaps & Breakers Owner, Greg Kerfoot
13.Nov.2002
....
[a-league.com] - What do you see for the Whitecaps and Breakers for the long term? A Canadian league, or MLS/WUSA membership?
[Greg Kerfoot] - I am probably not the right person to ask but you did so here goes. I think the MLS/WUSA are making an incredible investment in and contribution to soccer in NA and I applaud them for it. However, I really don't see the Whitecaps playing there in the next few years. We are currently averaging around 3500 fans per game which isn't a bad place to grow from but it sure isn't going to support a franchise fee in the tens of millions. Even if we can get to Rochester levels of attendance it would be pretty tough to make those numbers work.
....
[a-league.com] - Since Paul Allen has long been rumored to be interested in a Seattle MLS franchise and now you've bought into the Whitecaps will we see a rash of people involved in the tech industry getting involved with soccer?
[Greg Kerfoot] - I doubt this is a trend. I think our two situations are quite different. I got involved because the team needed the support. I think Paul is rumoured to be getting involved partly because his group controls the stadium and the Sounders were part of the package to get approval for it to be built. There is some potential synergy there. He also fits the MLS target profile - billionaire.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 9:29 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Kerfoot has seen the situation at Swangard first hand. Now he knows how the city of Burnaby does things and knows how hard it is to fill up Swangard. Thats why they keep downsizing the capacity of the stadium.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 10:52 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
I knew I had the fill Swangard stuff in my head based on something in the media...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...so a couple of quick google searches later and here's an article Winnipeg Fury posted on here back in September with Bob Lenarduzzi speculating about a possible future move by the Whitecaps to MLS linked to the building of a new facility:-
Ideal ownership style gives 'Caps shot at a future
Ed Willes
The Province
Friday, September 05, 2003
CREDIT: Jason Payne, The Province
Nick Dasovic leads Whitecaps warm-up drills Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT
It's an axiom that also applies to the weather in Alberta but, in his 30-some years in soccer, Bob Lenarduzzi has learned to never get comfortable in the game because things will likely change within 15 minutes.
One moment, for example, Lenarduzzi was playing in front of 70,000 fans in the Meadowlands. The next, his league folded like an accordion.
One moment he was trying to survive to the next day as general manager of the Whitecaps.
The next, someone he'd just met took a look at his wheezing operation, made the remarkable decision it had potential and handed him all the resources he required.
So, while Lenarduzzi currently enjoys the view from the Vancouver Whitecaps' new digs in West Van, he's mindful that he's not that far removed from an office in beautiful downtown Whalley and a team more broke than Mike Tyson.
Thus, when he's asked about the 'Caps' future, he doesn't speak of expansion so much as he speaks of consolidation.
"We think of ourselves as a developmental ground for the better Canadian players. If anything else happens, it happens. Other than Greg's [team owner Kerfoot] commitment, I don't need anything."
He hasn't been able to say that too many times during his years with the franchise. That he can say it now, you suspect, means a great deal to the man.
As the Whitecaps prepare for this weekend's divisional home-and-away playoff series with the Seattle Sounders (tonight in Seattle; Sunday, 7 p.m. at Swangard Stadium), they are enjoying one of the more successful stretches in the franchise's ragged history.
OK, no one's confusing them with Man U. just yet. But attendance at Swangard is up about 20 per cent over last year, revenue is up a still greater amount and the 'Caps are riding a 13-game unbeaten streak into the A-League playoffs.
Given where they were at this time last year, that's a considerable achievement for the entire organization.
Some 12 months ago, the 'Caps were being operated by the A-League after owner David Stadnyk walked away from the team, claiming losses in excess of $1 million. While they made a modest run through the playoffs to the conference final, the year ended with their future very much in doubt.
Enter Kerfoot. "Honestly, if I was going to make a checklist of what we needed in an owner, he'd fill every requirement," said Lenarduzzi.
"Last year we were trying to generate as much revenue as possible for the league. This year we're trying to do it for a guy we'd all run through a wall for."
Aside from an aversion to the media, in fact, Kerfoot has been the perfect owner. He was introduced to Lenarduzzi by restaurateur Mark James last November, and eventually purchased the franchise with the avowed goal of building the best small-sports franchise in the world.
He's since provided Lenarduzzi with all the resources he needs to build the franchise while staying out of his hair.
We should all have such a boss.
"The big thing is, we're finally out of survival mode," Lenarduzzi said. "You know it's finished when you have to plead with people to come out. Either you've got the product or you don't."
And they seem to have the product. Veterans Carlo Corazzin and Nick Dasovic have returned home from England and Scotland, respectively, to solidify the lineup. It's backed up, of course, by Kerfoot's considerable bankroll -- and when you consider that one of his businesses, Crystal Decisions, just sold for some $800 million, that's a lot of backup.
Lenarduzzi now talks about a permanent training facility for the 'Caps, the women Whitecaps and their developmental teams. Down the road, they're talking about a new outdoor facility and, maybe, a spot in the MLS.
But Lenarduzzi, who starred with the NASL Whitecaps in the late '70s and early '80s when they drew 30,000 fans to Empire Stadium, isn't getting carried away. "We have to fill Swangard first," he said. "Maybe then we can start talking about the future."
Lenarduzzi talks about filling up the stadium first but in person will openly tell you how bad Swangard is. Whitecaps averaged 4292 last season, and with the downsizing of the stadium this season if they average the same, there will be less than 1000 empty per game, and those seats are garbage. They'll never fill the stadium every night at Swangard. So I guess there will never be a new stadum.
Of course, they know the reality of the situation, and the fact is, they can't afford not to build a new stadium. Swangard is too costly.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:50 AM from IP address 24.85.180.202
Two very different scenarios. I've only spoken briefly to Mr. Lenarduzzi on a few occassions, but in person he was rather honest (and correct) in terms of who the people are that come out to pay to watch his team, and what the biggest obstacles and problems are for Canadian soccer. He used very different words, and much stronger opinions, than anyone would say diplomatically while being interviewed on the record.
His opinion on the first topic carries a good deal of weight for me, since I figure he knows more about it than I do. And, just to fill in the blanks, it's the same opinion I have. Of course, unlike LOSF, Mr. Lenarduzzi probably considers people born in Canada to be Canadian, which is also how I define them.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:20 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
that Krammerhead is correct about on the record / off the record differences. And of course, how you get the real goods, and the real information, only off the record. If that's too much to handle, tough.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:00 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
I was invited to the Whitecaps office a couple of months ago to talk about various Whitecaps topics. The new stadium topic came up, it was mentioned that they'd really like a grass surface (in fact they are going to use the fact that they presently play on real grass as some sort of slogan this season). The poor qualities of Swangard were talked about, as was the poor deal they get from the city of Burnaby. Those were the main reasons for wanting a new stadium, there was no talk of wanting to move up to MLS as the reason.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:10 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
...regarding what exactly might be meant by best small team in the world or whatever it was they said. But it would seem that if a new stadium was built, and Kerfoot thought he could get another 5000 fans a game to MLS over A-League, that he would take this route.
What are your thoughts K-head? Do you think that attendance levels in a decent stadium would be relatively the same or substantially better if the Whitecaps were in MLS? If they'd be the same or close, then I could see him staying put (if he had a stadium to pay for). But you have to think if the economics work out better in MLS (a debatable point I agree) then he woul dmake that jump.
To me, in the absence of a Canadian league, it seems as if he is selling the Vancouver Market short. I agree with you that the difference in levels between MLS and top A-league is not that great, but then there are only maybe a half dozen A-League teams at best that reach this level.
Vancouver is a soccer town. It has the best soccer "culture" of any city north of Mexico from what I've seen, and I think the Whitecaps will be a flagship franchise in whatever NA league they are involved with.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 9:20 AM from IP address 167.129.240.10
since I'm not a Vancouverite, maybe I'm more objective than some (not all, of course) people from there.
If Vancouver got a SSS of 25K for the CFL, the Whitecaps could get 20-25K per game in a heartbeat if they were in MLS. So could the Lions. The Caps would probably go up immediately to 10-15K even at the A-League level.
Once the "new stadium novelty" wore off, I don't really think there would be much of a decline if the Caps were in MLS, and indeed if there were only 25K seats, you could be looking at a lot of consecutive sell-outs for both teams, which would generate it's own momentum and energy (think Alouettes, but in a better facility). If they stayed in the A-League, and the team suddenly became crappy or poorly run, then you could see attendance slip back down to the 6-8K mark, I would think. But you'd still get more people than will come out to Swangard to watch a good team, which has very little parking nearby, I might add. Vancouver outdoors in the evening during the summer months is fantastic. There aren't the mosquitoes you get pretty much everywhere else in Canada, the temperature is nice, and the scenery is great, if you can look at the mountains like you could at Empire Stadium. The only down side would be the walk-up on rainy days - but that could be eliminated simply by having a properly covered stadium, which the rest of the world has figured out, but which is bizarrely lacking on CFL stadia.
Just an opinion, but the fans are there, they want an outdoor stadium for the Lions, they would love to see a continent-wide soccer league with Vancouver in it. The American-wannabee thing is there, but it isn't just assumed in Vancouver as it is in Toronto. The city does consider itself to be in the same class as other 2 million resident cities, understandably. People will support things like soccer, the CFL, and AAA baseball, but the facilities have to be there. Heck, the Junior Hockey Giants are indicative of this. They play out at the old Pacific Coliseum, on the boundary with Burnaby (like Swangard is), the rent is cheaper and so are the tickets. They've built a solid team and management, and seem to be packing in great Junior hockey numbers in an NHL city, which seems to be a tough thing to do (failed recently in both Edmonton and Montreal, still going in Calgary and Ottawa, recently resurrected in Toronto and Vancouver).
Hope that's of some value. Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:35 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
Actually, in a new stadium I think that the Whitecaps would get 5000+ more fans to A-League games. If the team jumped to MLS sure the numbers would go up, people here are no different than anywhere else in Canada. Many of them gets excited over the idea of "major league" sports. As you point out though, the economics in the MLS may not be better.
Now to shock everybody. If Vancouver has to jump to MLS in order to escape what is increasingly becoming a bigger bush league A-League, then I'm for it.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:16 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
I think K-Head has made some good points here. First of all, it seems clear that if the Whitecaps were in a better venue, they'd get better attendance. Also, I would suspect that if this new venue was built, a MLS club would outdraw an A-League club by quite a bit. However, would this make a MLS club viable? Who knows at this point. Combine this with the hesitation of MLS to expand north and a reduced but still significant franchise fee, and I don't see the Whitecaps seriously contemplating MLS for quite a few years and only if everything else falls into place.
Jason
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 7:49 PM from IP address 68.145.107.157
...but I don't understand how the idea of an MLS team in Vancouver is being universally supported while the idea of an MLS team in Toronto turned into a huge east vs. west thing with almost everyone (myself excepted) from Toronto in support and most people from the west against?
So what is the difference? Is it the fact that the CSA was "leading" the Toronto cause that bothered people?
As I've said before, I'm against any MLS team anywhere in Canada, because of the divide it would create (starting with no chance of a Canadian league, or even pseudo-league ("Canadian division within the A-League", however you want to define that), or even Voyageurs Cup-type things). Other people who were against an MLS team in Toronto used this argument before, so was it just something convenient to bolster their position that no longer matters when we're talking about the west?
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 7:45 PM from IP address 24.156.163.244
...that 3+ teams in MLS along with 5+ A League teams would be a reasonable substitute for a Canadian League (which I'd prefer). I was opposed to TO getting a team without the CSA getting a guarantee that other Canadian teams would be allowed in as well. I will rest easier if Vancouver is first in, because it is not concievable that MLS would take Vancouver and not be interested in Toronto and Montreal. However, it is very concievable that they would take TO and refuse Montreal and Vancouver as they are smaller markets.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 8:00 PM from IP address 24.66.94.141
Well im my case I'm not going all out saying Vancouver should quit the A-League and join the MLS. All I'm saying is the A-league is getting progressively worse in it's bush league ways, and if having to join the MLS is a way to avoid it then I'm for it.
Speaking of the western conference only we have this situation: Calgary: astroturf with CFL lines and soccer lines. Portland: Worn out NextTurf. Seattle: worn down FieldTurf, possibility of NFL lines being on all year. Minnesota: FieldTurf with American football lines on it. Edmonton: reports that once th CFL season starts they won't be removing the football lines. Only Milwaukee and Vancouverwill play on grass with no football lines. I won't evenget into the continued crappy scheduling of many games in one week.
Regarding the Toronto MLS bid, yes the CSA being behind it was/is a big reason why there was so much negativity from the west. Nobody would complain had private Toronto investors said they were going after an MLS squad. It was the fact that the CSA was putting Toronto ahead of the rest of Canada.
I still don't think Vancouvers going MLS.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 10:08 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
was more along the lines of whether or not one MLS team would then halt any possible progress for the remaining cities at the A-League level, or maybe even contribute to their demise. CFL fans have been debating the same thing for decades. It also reignited a debate on whether a national league was preferable to one MLS team. Don't get bent about it, it's just that Toronto was the first team talked about.
And of course, the fact that the CSA has done nothing in terms of facilities, anywhere, was bound to raise eyebrows, if not angry voices.
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 5, 2004, 2:30 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
Tuesday, March 30, 2004 (TORONTO, ON) ˆ Defense has always been the strength of the Toronto Lynx and will continue to be in 2004 as the Lynx announce the re-signing of defender Adrian Serioux today. The veteran Scarborough native, in his sixth season with the Lynx, was the 2000 Lynx Best Defender Award winner and an A-League Second Team All-Star. One of the most athletic and aggressive man-markers in the A-League, the Pope John Paul II Secondary School graduate and former Scarborough Malvern Soccer Club standout, is not afraid to join the attack, recording 2 goals and adding 4 assists in his career. Serioux will once again be asked to anchor the Lynx defense in 2004.
Second-year Canadian defender Tyler Hughes has also joined his teammates in training camp this season playing out the option year of his 2003 contract. Hughes is coming off a rookie campaign that saw him earn a staring position and finish sixth on the Club in minutes played. The versatile Victoria, BC native is a natural defender who also contributed in 2003 as a left midfielder. „Its good to be back with the Lynx for another year,‰ said Hughes. „We are looking to make the playoffs this season and the team is looking very good in training. Personally, I want to build on last season and try to become more of an impact player this year.‰ After a standout career at Coastal Carolina University that saw him earn four All-Conference and two All-South selections, Hughes made his professional debut with the Wilmington Hammerheads of the USL‚s Pro Soccer League before joining the Lynx and has also competed for the U20 Canadian National Team.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 6:19 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
I guess our foreign keeper is going to have his hands full, eh? Any 'cap castoffs coming to Edmonton? I know that Ongaro has made a trip out east but has he been scouting the west coast too? The Aviators, early on, look like a pretty good first year organization but The Caps look like ALeague contenders. Give us a couple more years....
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:51 AM from IP address 24.67.166.55
Think Gordon Chin might want to come your way. Not sure how muhc playing time he will be getting here with all our new signings! Think Edmonton would be a great place for him. Besides, we have Gregor and Kindel, who both make up for tenacious style of Chin!
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:17 PM from IP address 207.232.107.47
Davide Xausa, Martin Nash always wanted to return to B.C.
Dan Stinson
Vancouver Sun
Wednesday, March 31, 2004
The Vancouver Whitecaps introduced newest signees David Xausa (above) and Martin Nash on Thursday.
CREDIT: Ward Perrin, Vancouver Sun
The Vancouver Whitecaps introduced newest signees David Xausa and Martin Nash (above) on Thursday.
CREDIT: Ward Perrin, Vancouver Sun
ADVERTISEMENT
The Vancouver Whitecaps are putting a new spin on the old "what goes around comes around" axiom. In their case, what goes around in the world of soccer often comes back to this area.
The Whitecaps announced Tuesday that two highly regarded B.C. natives -- striker Davide Xausa of Anmore and Victoria midfielder Martin Nash -- have been signed to contracts following successful careers elsewhere in the game.
Also veteran Canadian national team players, Xausa and Nash were joined by midfielder John Sulentic, a Richmond native who has agreed to terms for his sixth A-League season with the team.
Xausa, 28, joins the Whitecaps following six years in the Scottish League -- most recently with Falkirk of the First Division. He also played for Livingston, Inverness and St. Johnstone in a Scottish League career that was highlighted by his two goals in Livingston's 4-1 UEFA Cup tournament qualifying victory over Dunfermline in 2002.
Renowned for a powerful and accurate shot, the six-foot, 170-pound Xausa has represented Canada 32 times and is expected to be included in the national side in this year's CONCACAF zone first-round qualifying games for the 2006 World Cup tournament.
"I'm leaving Scottish football," Xausa said via conference call from Dubai, where he's currently on vacation. "I always knew that I was going to come back to North America to play. It was just a matter of where and when. I know a lot of the Whitecaps players and I'm very much looking forward to playing with them this summer."
Nash, also 28, is the older brother of guard Steve Nash of the NBA Dallas Mavericks. Martin Nash's career includes one season with Stockport County of the English League and the 1995, '96 and '99 A-League seasons with the Vancouver 86ers, when he scored eight goals and added 13 assists in 58 games.
The five-foot-11, 170-pound Nash subsequently signed with the Rochester Raging Rhinos and helped the team win league championships in 2000 and 2001. Twice named to all-league teams, he played the 2003 season with the Montreal Impact.
"I left Vancouver to further my career, but I always wanted to return home," Nash said. "Vancouver is as close to home as I can get in this league. I was happy to sign because I think the Whitecaps are moving in the right direction. They have a good reputation throughout the league."
Nash has played 30 times for Canada. His most notable achievement was helping the national side win the 2000 CONCACAF Gold Cup tournament. He's also expected to be involved in World Cup qualifying games this year under new national team head coach Frank Yallop, who has moved the team's base to Vancouver from Toronto.
"Frank has taken the attitude that he needs A-League players in the team," Nash said. "In the past, almost all A-League players were excluded simply because they played in this league. It wasn't perceived as a strong league by the previous coach [German native Holger Osieck], but Frank has changed that line of thinking.
"He has a great resume and the respect of all of the players."
Xausa has signed a three-year contract with the Whitecaps while Nash and Sulentic have agreed to one-year deals.
Sulentic, 24, is the Whitecaps' career assists leader with 33. He was a recent addition to the national team, earning his first cap while starting in an exhibition game against Barbados on Jan. 18.
VANCOUVER (CP) - The Vancouver Whitecaps strengthened their lineup Tuesday with the addition of Canadian internationals Davide Xausa and Martin Nash.
The A-League team also re-signed midfielder Johnny Sulentic, who joined the Whitecaps midway through last season. Xausa, a 28-year-old striker, played for Falkirk most recently in the Scottish First Division after leaving Premier League side Livingston. He has played for Canada 32 times.
Xausa signed a three-year deal with the Whitecaps, who normally stick to one-year deals but also gave longer contracts to veteran Canadian internationals Carlo Corazzin and Nick Dasovic.
Nash, a 28-year-old midfielder, plays indoors for the Dallas Sidekicks of the Major Indoor Soccer League. He played in the A-League most recently for the Montreal Impact and the Rochester Raging Rhinos. He has 30 caps for Canada.
The move is a homecoming for both players. Xausa is from Vancouver while Nash is a Victoria native who played in Vancouver from 1994 to 1996 and in 1999.
Sulentic, 24, made his debut for Canada in a 1-0 win over Barbados in January
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 1:14 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
You can catch hilites of the Holland/France match on the Wednesday version of SoccerCentral as well as some shots from Canada's camp in Manchester and thoughts from a number of the players.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 4:26 PM from IP address 216.123.185.106
Translated from Norwegian from the Moss Daily News:
BERNIER OPENS POSSIBILITIES FOR SIGNING NEW CONTRACT
Patrice Bernier will sit down to discuss a new contract with Tore Jobs (Club executive director).
By Mikael Mellquist
- I will not turn anything down before I have seen what the club have to offer. It is not true that I have said a defintive no to a new contract, although I would prefer to play at a highest possible level, says the 24 year old.
His present contract expires after this season, and that means that the canadian can sign for another club already now. - But I haven't thought about that. I haven't heard of any interest from other clubs either, and my focus is now on the season opening with Moss FK. That is the most important at this time.
Coach Mattson is happy about Berniers view. - It is good for the club, he says. Patrice is a very good player, says the swedish coach.
The midfielder have so far only heard little but nothing from the club leaders regarding what he can expect in salary during a new contract-period. And because of that he wanted to wait and see what the club would come up with on a later time. - I would like to say that it was a better contract that I have now, but it was only "loose talk" and nothing more. We will takt more about that when we come home from Spain. says Bernier.
The biggest "problem" is that Bernier wants to play at the highest possible level. - But that can be solved in several ways. Clauses is common in contracts nowadays, besides that is looking quite good for us this season. We have been playing very well since the hard start in the last season. Lately we have prooved that we can be a very good team, and I assume that we will be a top flight team this season, finishes the canadian.
His fellow countryman Rob Friend also has a contract that expires after this season. - I have told the club to hold on a litte regarding contract-negotiations, I want all focus directed on the start of the season, says Rob Friend. The striker know he is taking a bit of a chance, and that he can be without a contract next year if de doesen't preform this season. - I know that it is a certain risk with the whole thing, and it creates pressure. Normally I play best with pressure on my shoulders, says Friend.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 11:17 AM from IP address 24.79.45.117
Want to attend the Belgium/Germany Friendlly tomorrow
by Canuck in Boston
I am in Belgium and would like to go to the match. All my co-workers here in Brussels says it is sold out and there is no hope of getting tickets. Anyone have any suggestions?
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 6:46 AM from IP address 194.7.152.254
Is there a rule in the CSA anywhere that states anything like no one can have a match in Canada unless:
A:They give a certain amount of the gate to the CSA
b:The game must have a Canadian team or club
If there is a rule it shold be reviewed or removed
IF the CSA wants a cut lets determine the cut and publicly annnounce it so the public can follow the money trail and entrepreneurs know the terms.This has been the point some entrepreneurs have stated that they have been asked by the CSA to pay huge amounts of money to stage an invent in Canada by the CSA.The proof is in the pudding there have been no events why not? They obviosly make top dollar and entrepreneurs want to make top dollar so why has no one staged one ?Thats what Alphy from ISM asked either the CSA demands money or cites this "rule" which is it?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 6:34 PM from IP address 64.231.32.84
I am paraphrasing but am trying to remain true to the intent.
Andy Sharpe - Blames Holger for lack of Canada games. He claims Holger and staff said there was a lack of teams and opportunities.
- Yallop a breath of fresh air
- If we get into hex we will be playing Mexico in Edmonton (freeze 'em out)
- Atiba a class act. Hume wants to be on field.
- Hargreaves Holger and Andy went to Germany. Whore changed his mind. Tried also to deflect some blame to Tony Taylor.
Kevan Pipe - Has initiatives with Craig Forrest?? Says Forrest is the face of Canadian soccer.
- Mentioned Varsity in particular as site. MLSEL dropping out may make getting handouts easier.
- Canadian league basically is the Aleague
Craig Forrest - Says CSA got him into Sportsnet
Alphons Rubens - Not optimistic about 2006. Arguing about Americans being at higher level.
- Says what did Pellurud accomplish
- Says he doesn't want letters for his rag because he doesn't want 2 or 3 pages of negative stuff
- Blames lack of league on size of country
- Rants on CSA for the intl game at Skydome
The commentators (from San Diego) seemed more knowledgable and confident than this defeatist idiot.
Typical CSA whining. I guess I won't be subscribing to his rag. I can get that exact whining here for free
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 5:29 PM from IP address 142.166.121.81
You said "The commentators (from San Diego) seemed more knowledgable and confident than this defeatist idiot.". That is debatable to say the least. Would you mind pointing out where Alfons missed the boat the two two ex-pats sorted it out?????
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 8:45 PM from IP address 68.145.134.137
Had to go back and listen to the interview again. I will concede that the hosts did not "correct" Rubens. They chose to accept the positive side of the issues and he seemed to accept the negative.
His saying "What did he accomplish" (re Pellurud) c'mon man. Even if you don't like his style you can't dispute his results.
He says we barely know who is going to be on the team with an 18 player camp going on now.
He said our players were playing in 2nd and 3rd divisions. Who plays in 3rd division on the seniors? 2nd? Bent, Hume. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant 3rd division = 2nd division.
When the hosts were trying to talk about the quality of our players he would only admit Stalteri and DeGuzman being in decent divisions.
He was saying we shouldn't keep rebuilding the team. Isn't that what everybody does when results are not coming? So we keep losing and don't rebuild? Keep Fenwick, Corrazin?
Just sounded like the same old crap that I hear on this site from the "get rid of" gang.
I don't know if you write for this guy or not Ed. He may be a great guy and knowledgable but he didn't come across that way to me.
At the end the host said it was nice to have a counterpoint to positive, enthusiastic guests. Indeed.
So I guess I can't argue the merits of his knowledge but I can argue the attitude and there's not much sense doing that because there is no right answer and we disagree.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 10:43 PM from IP address 142.166.230.79
Dude, you criticized and took issue with the guy from San Diego for saying that we're not ready for 2006, for saying that the Americans are ahead of us in terms of development, and that Stalteri and de Guzman are our only real "international" quality players. (I would add the Rat to that list.)
I think you're the epitome of someone who's got unrealistic expectations of the Men's National Team and of Canadian soccer, in general. How is any of what this individual said wrong? Why do things always have to be construed as negative when it doesn't conform to exactly what you wanted to hear? Life isn't an endless series of good news, you know. And, unfortunately, when it comes to Canadian soccer, it usually isn't.
I think it would be a worthwhile accomplishment for our boys if they can qualify for the Hex. That would be a worthwhile accomplishment, and anything beyond that would be icing on the cake.
...I'm also optimistic that the CSA can work out some arrangment with various levels of the private and public sectors and get a new stadium built in Toronto, preferable at St.George subway station.
If the CSA can, somehow, manage that, well that'll be our present for 2004.
Christian,
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 1:46 PM from IP address 130.15.162.119
It is oh so easy to disect Canadian soccer in a very negative way and anyone could be right one way or another.
I am sure even in other top soccer countries the same will apply.It seems to be the nature of the game to bring out all this negative stuff.Like playing soccer in the boardroom, meeting rooms or fields.
I have heard so much negative stuff about soccer over the last 28 years it makes me crinch.I have been the victum of a whole hoopla of critisim,while knowing I was doing a superb job in promoting the game.
I don't know how we are going to cure this negative desease,but please guys people are trying and trying very hard.
There must be a way to get along,respect what is being done admire efforts and be happy to have a guy like Alfonse to invest all his money to promote the game and brings out this great rag.
If Alfons was critical maybe he should follow my respectfull advice.We must support each other,even if we think we are on the wrong path.People have a way of learning from their mistakes and I am sure the CSA has lots of examples to go buy,but they tried and I know they try very hard.The CSA will be succesfull, it is just a matter of time.
Have faith guys ,believe me I know what I am talking about,he Robert.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:12 PM from IP address 216.129.201.11
To me you are the patron saint of Canadian soccer. Always looking at the glass as half full, instead of half empty. Kevan is trying hard, he has difficult problems, and he is doing the best he can with what he has. That may all be true, but quoting the general: "Soccer is War." Each day, for the last 18 years, we have been loosing battle after battle. We have lost many opportunities, players, coaches, fans and our youth deserves better. We have to replace our leader or in the near future we will suffer the indignity of have to start World Cup qualifying with those tiny Caribbean islands. 91st in the world, regards if you attach much weight to the rankings, is not a lofty position to be in. What has to happen before you would consider that Mr. Pipe is not the man?
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 11:27 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
For years I have witnessed and have been part of many discussions involving soccer with soccer people. I would say most of the time it involved critizing some one .It seems to be a huge desease.If the state of affairs would be dandy I suppose this critique has worked.The problem is that it has not helped one bit and we are still all bitching.
I have been just as guilty as everyone else,I just learned some lessons.
Deposing people,starting mutinies etc is not going to work.You pi.. people of and the opposite may very well be the result.
Let us all work together and try to accept some of the shortcomings and learn from them and in due time it will all clear up.
The CSA has a huge job on their hands in the largest country in the world and a country not designed to have a respectable soccer season,at least not on this side.
We have a big problem with our image and the concentrated efforts to not put soccer were it belongs by variety of individuals ,those that are the king makers,the media guys,the marketing guys and even some of the politicians.
By the way good luck in your coaching career and if I can give you any advise at all,take some courses.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 12:04 PM from IP address 216.129.201.30
If you're content to sit in a rocking chair, that's okay with me. Just don't expect me to follow suit, I'm not much of a bridge player. If there's no need for change, then how come Bob Lenarduzzi is no longer our national coach?
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 3:17 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Opa and no rocking chair.
Still working on it.
I just am trying to get you guys to cool down a bit. I don't see any way for us to get rid of anyone or even have any influence on anyone to make these drastich changes. We simply don't have a vote. We can get awfully mad and may even have a strong case in our opinion,yet it is futile. The system does not recognize us. Maybe we should become part of the CSA in some capacity and obtain voting rights.I know we can voice our opinion and we all have. I remember i came on very strong and there was a discussion about kicking me of the board or some kind of censorship.
Whatever, I learned to phrase my strong opinions and it seemed to work. I do know that there are those that enjoy my observationson this board.
I have some experience in this soccerworld and I can truthfully say that it has cost me many thousands of dollars. There are no money makers in soccer in Canada.All strictly volunteers not including the hierchy in Ottawa and others.
Anyway jongeman keep on having fun and now about Bobby. I don't know what happened and I presume that in the innercircles there is an answer. I suppose we did not make the WC and le voila you are gone.
Did you get the coaching course booklet and did you sign up for some. They are extremely helpfull and gives you lots of ammunition to look good in the eyes of the parents and the kids.
I even feel tempted to give you some coaching tips,just let me know if you are loosing I will help you out.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 4:28 PM from IP address 216.129.201.30
I have not received any coaching course booklet yet, the season is supposed to start April 24th. Feel free to Email me anytime. Being an opa isn't bad, I've got a two year old grandson and a one month old granddaughter and I could still play in goal for the national team if they needed me. People with persistence do change things. Kevan Pipe does not own Canadian soccer and his days are numbered.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 8:05 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
It was a great read and the photos were cool. You didn't mention the soccer academy at SFX though(I think Asmir was there for a bit too). That might make an interesting story in itself someday. I wouldn't mind reading a bit more about a few of the stories coming out of the Soccer High Schools. Surely, a few of these kids are landing NCAA scholorships? Any plans for a story on the Soccer Academies, Ed?
Keep up the good work.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 1:33 AM from IP address 24.67.166.55
Glad someone enjoyed the piece.
I knew about the SFX academy but did not mention it. Are you seriously asking for more Edmonton content????
Just kidding James. I hear Asmir is doing very well over there which is terrific.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 6:45 PM from IP address 192.131.137.129
They seem to be taking off. I know that there are a few other sports that are included and that there are a few other schools trying the concept out. Is it only in Edmonton right now? Might be a story that an eager young writer like yourself might be able to flog to a few markets...
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 2:44 AM from IP address 24.67.166.55
....my sweet lord, there's a familiar ring to the opening of Ed's latest article in ISM... " Many Canadians will remember Sunday. Feb.1, 2004 for the Super Bowl and the brouhaha around the half-time show ..."
In issue #48,Mar/April 2001, Ed started his article on Tam Nsaliwa....."Most people in North America will associate Jan. 28, 2001 with the over-hyped Super Bowl...."
I quess we can't blame you for cannabilizing yourself - ISM basically rolls over you in a comfy couch style - it's not going to rouse you from your slumber. So who pays attention to what you scribble...right Ed? Straight and narrow, that's your call...
Considering your sanitized coverage of the Calgary Storm - and now that we have two Alberta teams in the A-league...please Mr. R. John Hayes, return to the ISM fold.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 11:50 AM from IP address 24.67.253.203
A little off topic I'd say. That will have the ESL crowd scratching their noggins. The discussion was around the 'Inside Soccer' radio show, not the mag.
Thanks for the feedback though, always appreciated.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 12:05 PM from IP address 192.131.137.129
NY Times: Construction to Begin This Year on Stadium for MetroStars
by London Ont. soccer fan
Getting out of Giants stadium and into an SSS is probably the most important step towards long term stability and financial viability that MLS can take.
Construction to Begin This Year on Stadium for MetroStars
By JACK BELL
Published: March 29, 2004
round will be broken in late summer or early fall for the MetroStars' long-anticipated stadium project in Harrison, N.J., across the Passaic River from Newark, according to Don Garber, the commissioner of Major League Soccer.
"The deal is done," Garber said in a telephone interview. "There should be a press conference within 30 days."
The $152 million project will include a stadium with about 25,000 seats and a 5,000-space parking garage, all close to the Harrison PATH station. The company that runs the club, the Anschutz Entertainment Group, will contribute $30 million toward the stadium. The project will be the latest effort by M.L.S. to construct soccer-only stadiums that it controls. The MetroStars open their ninth Major League Soccer season Saturday against the Crew in Columbus, Ohio.
"All the papers are signed," Garber said. "All that's left is the county commission's approval of a bond sale. This is the one facility that will stand out amid the mess of other facilities that have been talked about in the area."
The stadium has often been derided and joked about because club officials have been showing designs for the past four years. Part of the joke was that there would be an announcement in "30 to 90 days," in the words of MetroStars General Manager Nick Sakiewicz. But Sakiewicz soldiered on, through the thicket of Hudson County (N.J.) politics.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 3:00 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Force defender Nevio Pizzolitto will miss today's important home finale against St. Louis after undergoing surgery for a hernia on Friday at University Hospitals.
Pizzolitto suffered the injury in a game at St. Louis on March 6 and aggravated it in Cleveland's 8-7 overtime victory over the Kansas City Comets on March 21. He has appeared in 19 games this season and has three goals, three assists and 22 blocks.
The Force closes out the home portion of the regular season today against the St. Louis Steamers at the CSU Convocation Center at 3:05 p.m. The Force (14-19) leads St. Louis (13-19) by half a game in the battle for the sixth and last playoff spot, but St. Louis has won two of the three meetings this season.
The Force finishes the regular season with games at Baltimore on Friday and at Philadelphia on Saturday. The Force has won five in a row, including two by forfeit after Monterrey used an ineligible player.
Braeden Cloutier (hamstring) and Chris Dore (knee) are questionable for today. Cloutier, a midfielder, has scored 20 points in 19 games.
Ball honored:
Force defender John Ball was named the Major Indoor Soccer League's Defensive Player of the Week. Ball, 31, blocked eight shots in two victories last week and also had a goal and two assists. The three-time All-Star has blocked 47 shots and registered 25 points (12 goals, 13 assists) for the season.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 2:40 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
The vision of Soccer in Canada declares what our sport stands for and is working towards:
- To provide opportunities to all our Members ranging from World Cup victories to participation appropriate to everyone's abilities.
(Failing grade. Why are so many national team players (our most valuable resources) forced to go outside this country to find a league to play in and earn a living?)
- To encourage positive values in all aspects of the sport.
(Failing grade. This is so subjective, I could go on for hours.)
- To be recognized as a major player in the world's premier sport.
(Failing grade. At no level are we recognized as a major player. Politically or competitively.
As a result of the above, all decisions on programs and resources are made by answering the question:
"How does this help achive the vision for soccer?"
(How has Kevan Pipe helped achive these vision?)
The Mission Statement:
- The Canadian Soccer Association, in partnership with its members are dedicated to promoting the growth and development of soccer for all Canadian at all levels.
(Failing Grade. What is their form of promotion? They are unapproachable and their communication is not interactive. What is their fear in publicly facing questions regarding their accountability?)
- That, in this pursuit, The Canadian Soccer Association, in partnership with its Members, are committed to providing leadership and good governance for our sport.
(Failing grade. Who determines if the CSA has done a good job? How is this evaluated? Who for the last 18 years has determined the Kevan Pipe as Chief Operating Officer has performed satisfactorly? Who is Kevan Pipe accoutable to?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 12:51 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
I just watched the Lazio/Perugia game and noticed the way that the latter's home ground seems to be basic in design. Similar in cases of the home grounds of Ancona, and Empoli.
Would you in TO want a stadium with all the bells an whistles? Or just one with a basic layout?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 1:35 AM from IP address 161.184.143.135
Seeing as the best we can offer in T.o., is the pish poor Centennial or Birchmount, we should be cap in hand looking for anything.
But while we're on the subject, I like the New Den where Millwall play ( 20,000 + capacity, covered roofs, open corners for expansion ). So long as the brains in charge make it a rectangular field, no track, and build the stands up on a steep rake, that is really all we can ask for. No need for all 4 sides covered - 2 is fine. No need for 20-30 Pvt boxes - if demand warrants it then the corners can be filled in. Natural grass. Toronto already has enough concert halls to compete for the dwindling show marketplace. Downtown location - either Varsity, or the Ex, or the Docklands. Make it a focal point.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 1:56 PM from IP address 207.107.50.100
This article is the first in a series of occasional pieces on noteworthy fields and stadiums.
In June of 1994, the Pontiac Silverdome in Michigan hosted four men’s World Cup matches. The games marked the first World Cup contests played indoors. Perhaps more notably, grass stain, and not turf burn, ruled the day.
For those four games plus an exhibition in 1993, stadium crews transformed the Silverdome, installing nearly 2,000 natural grass containing trays, most weighing nearly 3,000 pounds. [1]
In June of 2002, the Japanese city of Hitsujigaoka, just outside of Sapporo and home to the Sapporo Dome, promises to do the Silverdome “one” better. “One,” as in one tray of natural grass. All 8,300 tons of it.
The Sapporo Dome represents impressive technology (more on that to follow), but the ground was laid, quite literally, in Michigan in 1993.
First, why grass? FIFA’s Laws of the Game, last updated in 2001, make no mention of the word “grass” [2]. In fact, FIFA favors “the installation and use of artificial turf in climates and stadium microclimates where the maintenance and growth of natural grass is difficult.”
Until recently, however, artificial turf changed the game too dramatically. That all changed in 2001, when seven FIFA-approved facilities made their debut (two in France, one each in Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and the United States).
In 1993, this technology was still years away, so grass it was. Grass could be grown indoors, to be sure, but not of a quality to withstand even a youth soccer match. Grass had first been tried indoors at the Houston Astrodome in 1965 [3]. The semitransparent roof caused problems for the players, however. Painting the roof killed the grass, and the 1966 season opened on Astroturf.
Michigan approached the problem differently, starting and wintering the grass in California before shipping it cross-country by truck. The team placed the sod in hexagonal, triangular, and trapezoidal shaped trays (1,850, 100, and 44 in number, respectively), staging the trays in the stadium parking lot before expending more than 1,000 person-hours to install them indoors. By all accounts, the surface performed admirably.
Asked in an interview at the time whether the expense of using the system repeatedly would be prohibitive, project lead John N. “Trey” Rogers, assistant professor of crop and soil sciences at the University of Michigan, replied, “It might be. The better use would be for a single-purpose stadium where the system could be permanently installed. That's why I think the Europeans, or the Japanese because of their new professional soccer league, might be the first people to embrace the concept of growing grass indoors.”
Fast forward eight years to the 42,831 seat Sapporo Dome. Rather than grow the grass indoors, architect Hiroshi Hara and Kawasaki Heavy Systems opted for a $412 million grow outdoors, slide indoors approach [4]. (By comparison, the New England Revolution’s new home, CMGI Field, totaled $325 million for 68,000 seats.)
When the Sapporo Dome soccer pitch is outdoors, artificial turf lines the dome floor for baseball use. To convert to soccer, crews roll up the turf in preparation. A wall then opens up and two sections of centerfield seating slide out of the way in opposite directions. At a speed of 13 feet per minute, a combination of wheels, magnetic guidance, and air pressure moves the tray endline-first through the opening.
As the tray enters, seating that lined the first and third base lines rotates about 45 degrees to align with the soccer touchlines. When the field is fully inside, it and the sideline seating rotate 90 degrees for best viewing. Finally, the two centerfield seating sections close together along with the exterior wall. (Click here to see an animation of the conversion.)
Total elapsed time? 5 hours, compared to 30-40 for the Silverdome.
And what of the quality of the pitch?
On June 1 at about 10:30pm local time, Germany and Saudi Arabia will exit the pitch following their opening match and let us all know.
NB The pitch at the Amsterdam Arena has been replaced numerous times due to the problem of trying to grow grass indoors. Reliant Stadium in Houston uses a tray system and seems to be having more success but at what expense?
Bringing Back Real Turf
The new grass at Houston's Reliant Stadium shines
Anne Morris
The first game in Houston's new Reliant Stadium was August 24th: Texans versus Miami Dolphins. More than a few people were admiring the bright green grass. Who could blame them? It was the first time a National Football League team had played on real grass in Houston in decades.
Moving the grass modules into place at Houston's new Reliant Stadium. When filled with the grass, a growing medium and the grids for drainage, each module weighs 3,000 pounds. (Russ Anourka/Turfgrass America photo)
Reliant Stadium stands next door to the aging Astrodome--the domed stadium that made artificial turf famous in the 1960s. There's a lesson here, a lesson in turf evolution. Developer Roy Hofheinz, who conceived of the Astrodome and first planted it unsuccessfully with living grass, did not live long enough to see how others would solve the problem of too much shade.
Reliant Stadium apparently has the answer. This $449 million home of the new NFL expansion team, the Texans, features a playing field of grass planted in big, portable, galvanized steel trays beneath a retractable cloth roof. Individual trays can be removed and replanted when shade or wear and tear make the grass look worn. Plus, the whole field can be taken out by forklift to accommodate different events. The Texans will share this venue with the rodeo, concerts and other sports. An Australian company, StrathAyr Turf Systems, came up with a unique system for the moveable trays. Workers can pull out an individual tray without pulling out the others surrounding it, but the process is far from simple.
"It's not like just taking a tray of grass and moving it, and mowing it a few times, giving it some water and fertilizer and moving it back in the stadium," said Sue Milberger, a marketing executive with Turfgrass America, which helped create the Reliant field. "If it were that easy, it would've been there a long time ago," she said, hinting that there's more than a little technology involved. For example, a global positioning satellite system enables groundskeepers to locate the four corners of a particular module on the field. There are 1,300 modules in all, each measures 8 feet by 8 feet.
"The technology and just the details and the surface--and being level--and this grade and that grade," Milberger says, throwing up her hands. "It has to be done perfectly. It's a science."
Sue Milberger with John Modini, greenkeeper and turf manager from Australia's StrathAyr in front of the machines used to move the modules. (Anne Morris photo)
Navigating the Bay City, Tex., turf farm, Milberger speaks enthusiastically about the project. She became active in the family turfgrass business after a brief career as a teacher of special education and a longer one as a stay-at-home mom, but now there's no question she's on board. She's been involved with the construction of complicated golf courses and has been in on this project from the outset. Her father-in-law started Milberger Turfgrass in 1949. Fifty years later, her husband Arthur merged them with Crenshaw Turf of Bastrop, Tex.; Elsberry Greenhouse in Tampa Bay, Fla.; and Thomas Bros. Grass in Granbury, Tex., to form Turfgrass America, the company that provided the beautiful green grass for this high-profile project.
When the Houston Livestock and Rodeo is held annually at Reliant Stadium, this whole football field will be taken out and moved off-site temporarily using some 116 trucks. Then riding, roping cowboys can do their stuff without fear of tearing up the turf. "We knew we'd be taking the grass out for the rodeo in January," Milberger said. "Now we've learned we'll also be moving it in November for a college basketball triple-header." The new, air-conditioned stadium seats 69,500 people.
The grass modules at Houston's new Reliant Stadium are placed and then fitted and rolled to eliminate seams.
Turfgrass America, StrathAyr Turf Systems of Australia and Rehbein Construction of Minnesota worked together to create the portable field for the Texans. It's a pricey one, costing $3 million or so for installation, plus thousands more for day-to-day maintenance over the life of the stadium. TifSport, a cold-hardy, aggressive Bermudagrass that recovers quickly from injury and is commonly used for golf courses was an obvious choice for the project. Developed at the University of Georgia Coastal Plain Experiment Station at Tifton, it can withstand traffic and pests better than other grasses and is sold in a way that protects its genetic purity. Perhaps most important to the players is the fact that it provides a bouncy, forgiving surface for sports. In an era when a star player can be worth as much as a million dollars to a team, it becomes cost-effective to put in a natural field that will reduce the chance of injury. For the players, it can mean a longer career.
Over the last 10 years, Milberger said, the players have been asking for a return to real grass because it causes fewer injuries than many of the synthetics used on playing fields. "When the team tried it for the first time at the stadium, they were delighted. We knew they'd be happy, but we had no idea they would be this ecstatic about the field."
StrathAyr Turf Systems lays down the growing medium in the trays.
Let's go back a bit to how the new field came about. In March, the first of four Australians arrived at Turfgrass America's Bay City grass farm. Their mission: to teach the workers at Turfgrass America how to assemble and use their StrathAyr system of portable, galvanized trays. The plan was to create a pad to replicate the stadium playing field on the Bay City grass farm, then to truck the modules into Houston and set them in place so that there were no gaps between containers. When filled with the grass, a growing medium and the grids for drainage, each module weighs 3,000 pounds.
Australian John Modini had previous experience with the modular system, both in his home country and in the redesign of a high school stadium in New Orleans. The system was used for the first time in a portable grass tennis court for the Davis Cup Finals at Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne. Modini, who describes himself as "a qualified greenskeeper and turf manager," worked on that project.
Australian equipment is everywhere surrounding the model field. There's a Pave-Ayr, a Feed-Ayr, a Grab-Ayr. All are white with red-orange lettering. Modini explains that all the galvanized steel trays for the Reliant project had been flown in from Australia because an unfavorable exchange rate made that cheaper than manufacturing them in the United States. Put together in a big shed on the farm, the grid of trays is placed on a laser-leveled slab the same size and flatness of the football field at Reliant Stadium. The first job was preparing the pad. Then, they waited for the trays. There was considerable alarm when some of the trays went temporarily astray--to the Bahamas, as it turned out. Modini said he volunteered to go after them, but, alas, that didn't prove necessary. Once everything was put together, they brought in the grass.
Precision placement of the grass modules ensures a perfect fit and no seams.
"We took the grass we were growing at our farm in Poteet, Tex., and washed it to get to the bare roots," Milberger said, in what is called a "washed turf" process. We didn't want any interface of soils that might cause a problem." The growing medium is a mixture of USDA-grade sand with a 10 to 15 percent peat mixture and a bouncy, plastic net material called ReFlex.
They planted the grass in May at the Bay City farm. The growing medium is four inches, the trays three inches, so it's 7.5 inches between the top of the grass blade and the bottom of the tray. "The roots were hanging down," Milberger said, picking up a sample section to show. "They had grown through the growing medium, through the drainage part of the trays and were hanging down below the trays a good 8 to 10 inches. That's a perfect example of why this grass was selected," she beamed. "It will recover quickly from injury."
Modini said they use a standard NPK fertilizer--whatever is available locally--and do soil tests monthly. The only pests have been army grubs, but they succumbed to pesticides and, he said, "the grass repairs itself so quickly" it's not been a big problem.
The grass grows so aggressively that on the Bay City plot it's mowed daily with a Toro Triplex Greensmower, to keep the length at .5 inch. Modini says that it will be mowed every other day on the field at Reliant. As the top grows, the roots lock around the nylon mesh element. "It becomes bouncy, like a root bound plant," Milberger said. "That's not the technical term," she laughs, "but that's what it's like."
The most challenging part of the job, she said, was keeping the field even. At the Bay City farm, they grew the turf on an even surface that matched the one they would be installing on. To do this, they built the pad up about three feet. "We installed it on concrete with a 1 percent slope for drainage. Then we cut the trays out here and installed them in the exact same order at the stadium. We didn't want any variance whatsoever--no cracks."
The roots have grown through the growing medium, through the drainage part of the trays and are hanging down below the trays--a perfect example of why this grass was selected. (Russ Anourka/Turfgrass America photo)
The result?
"It's just incredible how well it went together." Milberger said.
At first she was worried about seams showing between the containers, but they filled that in with plastic, and the aggressive grass quickly grew together across the top. "It just looked like a mowing pattern," she said.
Now that the field is in place at Reliant Stadium, the team at the Bay City farm is getting ready to plant trays again. "We need to have a backup," Milberger said. "We'll have a field and a half ready for them." They also have grass growing on a sand base, without trays, to fix any trouble spots.
Turfgrass America is under contract to maintain the field through December, at which time Reliant Stadium may take it over or renew the contract with Turfgrass America. The long-term plan is for Reliant Stadium to have its own nursery, so they can maintain the grass.
Milberger will always feel a connection to the project. She looks forward to attending the Texan games, though she admits much of her attention will be on the grass. Her own favorite sports are tennis and golf, and she watched enough high school football games when her three daughters were cheerleaders to last her a good while.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 9:13 PM from IP address 142.166.252.13
Canucks in Germany Update (R - for those with FSWC)
by Ed
Paul Stalteri and Werder Bremen waged a see-saw battle with VfB Stuttgart this afternoon as Stuttgart held the league leaders to a 4-4 draw at Gottlieb-Daimler Stadium in Stuttgart. Bayern Munich, who beat Borussia Moenchengladbach 5-2 yesterdat (Owen Hargreaves scored his second of the season as he seems injury free for the time being) are now 9 points back of Bremen, with 8 games remaining in the season.
Julian de Guzman was forced to sit and watch yesterday as Hannover 96 got a break late in the game and Christiansen scored on a PK to give them a 1-1 draw at home against Borussia Dortmund. Hannover still sit in relegation territory but have a good chance to move up in the standings as they can take points from several clubs in the lower half of the table as the season winds down: 1.FC Koeln, Eintracht Frankfurt, 1860 Muenchen and VfL Wolfsburg.
Tam Nsaliwa did not see the field today as Jahn Regensburg dropped a 1-0 decision to Alemannia Aachen in the Bundesliga 2.
Victor Oppong was probably with the 1.FC Saarbrucken reserve team as they had their first win of the year in the Oberliga Southwest today, 4-2 over SC Idar Oberstein. He did not appear with the senior team
In a Junioren Bundesliga South-Southwest division game today, 1860 Muenchen drew FSV Mainz 05 0-0 and Nik Ledgerwood was finally back in action after a long injury layoff as he was subbed out after 86 minutes.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 2:51 PM from IP address 68.145.134.137
Russian Match Currently Being Webbroadcasted (5p.m.)
by Grizzly
Last year's champions Moscow Red Army (CSKA) are playing Soviet Wings Samara in Samara. The match from earlier in the day is being broadcast on RTR tv's web service at the following links:
high speed: mms://stream.rfn.ru/rtr-planeta
128: mms://stream.rfn.ru/rtr-planeta_128
64: mms://stream.rfn.ru/rtr-planeta_64
I don't have enough bandwidth for the high speed but the 128 feed is decent. They broadcast a fair number of matches, some live, on the web. Listings in english can be found at http://en.rtr-planeta.com/ by clicking on schedule. They have a time zone converter also so you can see what time the broadcast is in your area. Had Atiba signed with Saturn we would have been able to see some of his matches.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 5:19 PM from IP address 66.185.84.204
Inside Soccer Talk Radio Looks At Soccer In Canada
Guests
Andy Sharpe – President Canada Soccer Association
Kevin Pipe – Executive Director Canada Soccer Association
Charmaine Hooper – Canadian International Player
Craig Forrest – Former Canadian International & TV Presenter
Alfons Rubens – Publisher Inside Soccer Magazine
Dennis Fitter – Canadian Soccer Journalist
Saul Markowicz – Nuke Soccer Website
And a Cast of Thousands All Over Canada
Listen to the number one soccer talk radio show in Canada and the USA
I will be away so i dont think i can call in but i will if i can. if i cant can someone ask.
I would luv to hear this list of insignificant dribble.
Ask him why there is and has been no national title like discussed here.
Ask him why since Canada has more soccer players than hockey why there has been such an incredible failure at the national level ?
Ask him specifically where the cibc money will go?
how much what percentage will go to administration and how Canadian citizens can folow and trace this money accurately over the next five years?
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 2:50 PM from IP address 67.68.61.44
While Kevan Pipe was on, no fan questions were taken. Alfie Lau spent the interview on his knees and Craig Forrest was not going to ask any challenging questions to a potential employer. I don't think I'll listen to this tame/lame show.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 8:04 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
WAKE UP CSA ! THE honeymoon is over it was a kissass luv afffair
by FAN
if thats good journalism im the pope.
but even at that they the announcers are bettter than anyone ive heard so far.
come on guys we have almost a million players kickin a ball but the CSA and there crony group dont select any players other than old british cronies like themselves.
Look if the csa board supported its own members and selected players solely from the under 23 or 19 team instead of ringer import players like menendes or hume in place of players who have commited themselves to the CSA only to be dropped at the last second by someone like hume or some other "import ".Talk about shooting yourself in the foot and killing those players spirit or any other potential player who sees that.I remember looking at the CSA DEVELOPED players sitting on the bench most of them strikers when bruce twamsley brought on some more flakey "imports" who werent even strikers to play striker while they sat on the bench.If that isnt typical of exactly whats wrong I dont know what is.
Theres more than enough players in Canadian soccer to develop a team that would slaughter the current national mens team.
Look lets take the cronyism and politics out of the national team selection.Lets select the best eleven from all the provinces not these last minute imports from anywhere in the world just so long as they have some remote connection to Canada.
You could have every province play against each other regardlesss of age in other words over 18 and above FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
and then the winnning provincial team would be our Canadian mens national team with 3 or 5 players from other Canadian players in the world allowed to join the team.
I magine a national team consisting year after year of CSA" developed players from a "national championship team" peppered with players who moved on to become succesful players on top clubs through out the world.
something to chew on guys!
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 9:07 PM from IP address 67.68.61.44
Play Canadians who live in Canada. Who cares who these guys know in the old country. The old country is not going to do anything that benefits Canada unless they get a greater benefit out of it themselves. I would love to see the best Canadians in the A League take on those in their heads only prima donnas who clean cleats in the English first and second divisions. Like that distinguished career Bob Lenarduzzi had at powerhouse Reading. That's never talked about, I always hear about his Whitecap and 86er days. Did he make so much money playing for Reading or was he just living a boyhood fantasy?
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 10:29 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
"Like that distinguished career Bob Lenarduzzi had at powerhouse Reading. That's never talked about, I always hear about his Whitecap and 86er days. Did he make so much money playing for Reading or was he just living a boyhood fantasy?
Uh, Lenarduzzi went to Reading as a 15 year old apprentice. Him going there had nothing to do with boyhood fantasy, more to do with nowhere else to play. Too young to play in the NASL at that time and no Whitecaps to boot.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 3:44 PM from IP address 24.85.180.202
instead of killing the celtic/roma game CSA get us a game @skydome while the grass is down
by FAN
another poster hamilton fan mentioned this on the other board
Once again an excellent idea from fans at the voyageur forum,Just goess to prove there is no "will' on the part of the CSA.
Is there or has anyone here ever been able to directly contact Andy Sharpe I have tried several times seeems like he is very illusive.
IF someone can please assk him about this "rule" and even if the rule doesnt exist why there has been no international matches and Why the CSA didnt get up off their collective lazy selfish asses and make sure there are games like this and that like the above poster stated get a game or two games while the damn grass is down at the skydome?
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 6:56 PM from IP address 64.231.43.42
I believe it dates back to shortly after the match Pele (and Santos) played at Varsity 30 odd years ago.
Stupid rule thou and I wish someone would/could sue them for it. I dont see how the CSA is allowed to 'censor' the soccer I'm allowed to watch in a suposedly democratic and free society. (And Im not a Celtic nor Roma fan thou I'd be inclined to take this match in.)
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 7:00 PM from IP address 24.43.168.118
Why not have matches that promote soccer, Mr. Pipe or Mr. Sharpe? Is it personal greed? Why do you need to financially strangle an "entrepreneur" for something that you yourselves apparently are incapable of? Mr. Sharpe mentioned on the show that he as president acts only for the good of Canadian soccer, not for the good of Andy Sharpe. Hypocritically speaking he counterdicts himself in the same breath of air. Shame on you, you stingy Scotsman. There's too many Dutchman out here for you to get away that the ****e!
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 7:59 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Mr sharpe can be from any country in the world, its just that hes not Canadian born and i Dont think anyone on that board is or has been.
Im of british descent and im tired of all of the dominance of ex patriot british throughout the CSA and even players selected on our national teams.I am Canadian and I would like to have Canadians at least have the opportunity to be elected into positions that control our game.The CSA have no democratic elective procedure and the whole league reeks of cronyism.
At least resign like a decent respectable person admitting at the very least your failure if not your incompetence and allow someone else to run it.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 8:19 PM from IP address 64.231.43.42
I was born in Holland, but I bleed Maple Leaf red. My kids were born here and I want to support them 100%. I agree, the top post in Canadian soccer should be held by a Canadian and I would support any Canadian over any foreigners including Dutchmen. Hope that doesn't upset Johnn and Alpons. We need to make our concerns heard. Any ideas? I'm experiencing server problem, and not trying to hog the board.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 8:37 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
A canadian born CSA president and board formed from the voyageur membership
by FAN
sure Robert take your idea above about a voyageur committee convert it to a comitteee to support and nominate people this board picks and then run them against the incumbents and candidates at the CSA.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 11:36 PM from IP address 64.231.43.42
I am new on this board and will support the most respected nominations offered.
Nominations for Chief Operating Officer:
1)
2)
3)
Nominations for President:
1)
2)
3)
Nominations for Vice-president:
1)
2)
3)
Nominations for Secretary/Treasurer:
1)
2)
3)
Nominations for the Executive:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
Do we need any other positions?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 1:47 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Why not have matches that promote soccer, Mr. Pipe or Mr. Sharpe? Is it personal greed? Why do you need to financially strangle an "entrepreneur" for something that you yourselves apparently are incapable of? Mr. Sharpe mentioned on the show that he as president acts only for the good of Canadian soccer, not for the good of Andy Sharpe. Hypocritically speaking he counterdicts himself in the same breath of air. Shame on you, you stingy Scotsman. There's too many Dutchman out here for you to get away that the ****e!
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 8:00 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
I was to involved in talking about the Dutch,he Robert you are starting a dump the Scott and get the Dutch.That's never going to happen,they will drink you to death.Anyway let's not get carried away to much. We are all to far removed from the inner workings to be a true judge.From what I know and have experienced these guys are indeed doing their very best and they have some huge obstacles to work with or against.I don't have the answers,only the knowledge that those that I have met and dealt with are all very much dedicated to our game.It is not their lack of ideas or knowledge rather than the very peculiar position soccer has in this country that gives all of us and those guys in particular a huge problem to deal with.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 11:14 AM from IP address 216.129.201.22
As I mentioned before, every soccer association in the world has their problems. However, somehow they all find a way to have their own national soccer league which is specific to the uniqueness of their country. As far as being able to drink like a pig, I surrendered many years ago, it's an affliction I don't wish upon anyone. Since you mentioned it though, Andy Sharpe's pictures in the current ISM issue do have him looking pasty and not the sight of a healthy sportsman.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 11:57 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
references to a variety of problems that they are up against.
Andy looks like a Scotsman just having left his favouratwe pub,or just fought a big fire.
If I had his problems I would look a lot worse.
Don't they say looks are deceiving.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 2:51 PM from IP address 216.129.201.22
Why not have matches that promote soccer, Mr. Pipe or Mr. Sharpe? Is it personal greed? Why do you need to financially strangle an "entrepreneur" for something that you yourselves apparently are incapable of? Mr. Sharpe mentioned on the show that he as president acts only for the good of Canadian soccer, not for the good of Andy Sharpe. Hypocritically speaking he counterdicts himself in the same breath of air. Shame on you, you stingy Scotsman. There's too many Dutchman out here for you to get away that the ****e!
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 8:02 PM from IP address 24.69.255.202
Since the teams will be in Ontario already
a triangular tournament involving the mens team is an excellent opportunity to showcase the national team
Celtic and Roma can use it as a tuneup tournament for the rest of the tour and we get to see the our national team in action
yallop has been in office for almost five months and so far he has been given only two game to work with the players
we cannot ingnore opportunities like that they are too far and between to pass on, we need to be proactive not complete passive like dead wood.
If the CSA cannot afford to bring quality sides like that in Canada are we not at least entittle to quality football,we should not be held hostage.
the CSA should not just deprives soccer fans of high level football because of their incompetency.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 7:24 PM from IP address 216.209.222.122
The opportunity exists for the CSA to schedule a friendly against a top international team on the grass, while it's there.
Oh, and to the Dutchman with the jabs at Scots on this thread (I think it's Robert)- if you want to get ready to face some shots, just keep talking. I've got plenty to use - just don't start shooting if you're the guy with the smaller stockpile of ammunition.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 4:46 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
So where were the phones calls from Robert , etc., or the emails. The calls are free and Inside Soccer is happy to give fans the opportunity to ask "their questions" It is easy to bitch and moan, but for goodness sake lift the phone and get on the program. Get it off your chest, have your rant.
Inside Soccer is a fan based show and here was the opportunity for fans to speak directly to Andy Sharpe, Kevin Pipe, Craig Forrest, Alfie Lau, Alfons Rubens and Dennis Fitter. Let me repeat the phone call is free.
Was the program perfect? No but it was the first time on radio that anyone had managed to get all these people on the one show. It is my intention to go back to the "state of soccer" in Canada on a regular basis.
Have thought of having 30 mins each week set aside for Soccer in Canada. Not sure how it would work, but with over 800,000 registered players in Canada I am sure there would enough material to have a half decent program. Especially if people like Robert called in.
I was happy enough with the program. It wasn't the "Passion of Canadian Soccer" but then again Mel Gibson wasn't directing.
Take Care, Be Safe & I Will See You On The Radio.
Brian (Doc) Halliday Producer/ Co Host Inside Soccer on worldtalkradio.com
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 12:03 PM from IP address 66.185.85.69
I can only speak for myself but I listened to the first 2 hours of your Saturday show and, apart from the Man U content, enjoyed it very much. I had a prior commitment and had to miss the last hour unfortunately but will try to find it in the archives. A regular dose of Cdn content would be much appreciated, even more so with our national team actually making an appearance in Canada this year. I think that your show offers a great forum for some constructive criticism / dialogue down the road. If you have Kevan Pipe on there again I guarantee I have a question or two for him. Cheers.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 12:47 PM from IP address 192.131.137.129
First of all, yes you did manage to get all these people on the same show and I'm sure that took a bit of doing. Having conceded that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, very early in your broadcast I detected a choreographed control which turned really me off. Neither Dennis Fritter your first guest or Alphons Rubens your last guest were afforded the oppotunity of being on the air with the other guests who were simultaneously patting each other on the back. It appears to be a case where the CSA brass were on the airwaves, subject to the condition that they would not be directly confronted by the two afore mentioned guests. Neither at anytime while the CSA brass was on, did you extend an invitation of the following nature; "If any listeners would like to ask a question of Mr. Pipe or Mr. Sharpe, then now's your chance." Playing it safe is not the way to boost ratings in my opinion. However, like I mentioned, I could be wrong and I'm willing to give your show another listen if you produce a sequal to the Passion of Canadian Soccer, but if you play it safe again then there's no way I'm going to sit and invest three hours of my time listening to meaningless chit-chat. During your broadcast, I did send you an Email with a specific question for Mr. Pipe. Either you did not receive it, although the postmaster never notified me of any problems, or you chose not to use it. I chose to communicate in this way so that you could sensor my question as not to subject your show to any improprieties, I did this out of respect for you because you gave my passion air-time. If you like, I could paste the Email on this forum, for everyone's scrutiny. I welcome your response.
Cheers, Robert.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 6:28 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
I agree and second the offer Robert to Mr. Halliday
by FAN
I emailed you .And had no reply and like Robert did not hear one request to calll from you.I have all ready posted my question here but would be happy to be on your show, phone your show, or anything else you want if you can get one CSA board member of standing to reply to me directly.And I agree with Roberts impression that the show appeared choreographed.
Dont get me wrong I beleive you probably tried to get Andy Sharpe to answer direct questions but he skipped around it or outright said no.
The reason we feel this way Mr Halliday is because the CSA has been avoiding and doging contact or communication with its own membership for over 20 years.
I know from personal experience and I have been on soccer boards involved with the OSA and the CSA .
That was an excellent and well articulated post Robert really summed up the feeling I had anyway.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 6:46 PM from IP address 64.231.32.84
Let me assure you that none of Inside Soccer program on Saturday was as you say it choreographed.
The first hour of the show was already scheduled for our International audience. That is why we has Matt Proctor the producer and presenter of Man Utd Radio at 3.10pm.
As you probably know when we schedule a guest from Europe we always have to remember that they are 8 hours ahead of us. So Matt has to be scheduled for the first hour of the show.
Our second guest Ethan Zoth the CBS winner of Survivor Africa was traveling as so we fitted him in the first hour of the program. Which left us the next 90 minutes to schedule six guests from Canada. We had a seventh guest booked for the show but she didn't manage to make the program.
Putting a three hour soccer program isn't as easy as it "looks" especially when you try to bring on guests that are interesting. As I said in an earlier email it was our first run at Soccer in Canada. It will not be our last.
I thank you for your interest and at any time drop me a line or give me a call
Brian Halliday - Producer / Presenter Inside Soccer
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 8:42 PM from IP address 66.185.85.76
Thank you for taking the time to respond to our concerns and for the airtime you devoted to Canadian soccer. We have a very passionate soccer community north of the 49 parallel, and at the present time a number of us are extremely frustrated with the current state of affairs. Your soccer guest list was impressive, and would have loved to have joined the forum. Hopefully the opportunity will arises again.
Kindest regards from Vancouver,
Robert Janning
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 1:11 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
...on your exploring Canada show of last week, you asked Matt Proctor if Man Utd had toured Canada...they have. I believe they played the Van Whitecaps in the mid '70s , and there was a match in the spring of '82 at Empire Stadium ( and if memory serves me correctly,it featured a self -doubting performance by Gary Birtles, cracking under the strain of not bulging the onion bag on a regular basis.)
Speaking of the Red Devils, when I first clicked on your show a few months ago, I thought we were heading for the Old Bailey, not Old Trafford..." and he plead for England" ...your accent jars at first.
Can I make a request? Please treat the employee who recently re-vamped your musical inserts to a decent scoff, a six pack of Corona...your previous tormenting of your listeners with snippets of disco star wars and the lamest of the 80's tunes, verged on the unbearable. I surprised you felt safe strolling the streets of San Diego, not wary of retribution.
You've built a strong show, numerous, quality names on your guest list. I believe you've stated that your Inside Soccer is the most popular radio soccer show in America....but not so fast, you've got some competition .
I believe those likely lads Nick Webster, Steve Cohen at World Soccer Weekly and Big Soccer Wednesday, also lay claim to being top dog. The two Brit ex-pats, both who have served with the US armed forces ( speaking of accents,theirs must have gone over a treat in basic training) are not shy in voicing their opinions. A bit of shtick, willing to pander to the sexist...but they are alive,they can get you laughing. Only the dedicated can probably listen to the entire 3 hrs of the show,and surprisingly - since they can really dish it out -they're thin -skinned, but you have to love their passion, they truly try to entertain.
American Soccer News with Lew Llewelyn, Dan Loney moves a long (though there's a touch of sadness in listening to former forum flamer Dan Loney switch from wicked wit to Will Rodgers lite, a second banana.)Toss in a few other shows, and soccer is being well -represented on the radio airwaves in the States.
I appreciate your interest in Canadian soccer...and I believe it was a shrewd move to occasionally go north of the border....your website is now linked to the websites of those that you have invited on the show, I believe Alfons has dropped your name in an editorial...can't hurt.
We need a radio show in Canada. A few years back, when ISM had the experienced, media friendly Alf De Blasis at the helm, co-existing with the CSA (ISM being sold at Canuck WCQ matches) they could have perhaps requested a partnership (silent if neccessary) with our soccer governing body,their sponsers backing a radio show that would promote the CSA, international matches...and of course promoting the mag, our scene.
Now I think we would have to travel the World Soccer Weekly route, a bit of the outrageous, maybe even feature our own Brit ex-pats like World Football Pages' Chris Griffiths,Peter Ferris, Jonathan Himsworth...or coax Gregor Young, Orville Reynolds out of retirement. Some suggest building a show from a campus radio, Co-op station...whatever it takes. I do think that it can't just focus on the Canuck game, has to feature a bit of world beat...otherwise the show would implode in bitterness.
Don't worry, I won't be moving the mouse. Take care.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 5:32 PM from IP address 24.67.253.203
Thank you for your email and we are delighted to bring you (sometimes) an interesting and entertaining soccer talk radio show. The program is in it's fifth year and has gone from a one hour show on a local radio station to the three hours we now "air" on worldtalkradio.
Thank you for your comments about the music. Would love to give the engineering staff a reward for changing the music on the show. But we can't the music is in the hands of the Doc Halliday and he brings his old Downtown Radios days (back in Northern Ireland) to the program.
He used be the DJ on the Sunday Family Request Program and trust me he loves his "disco" Thank God he has moved on and now he has changed the music, but lets hope he doesn't bring his love of the Classics to the program. Actually the theme music for the program is Beethoven by Murphy.
As for being the most popular show in the USA and Canada, well we have never stated that we were. But to put thing in perspective, we have been rated the number one radio soccer talk radio in the States and Canada when we were been hosted by Clear Channel on AM 1130 KSDO. Clear Channel has hundreds of stations around the country and were carrying our show. Why are we not still on Clear Channel? That's another story that if we told you we would have to kill you?
In the latest "sweeps" rating week we know, that we heard live and on our archives in thirty-seven different countries. Thank you Manchester United fans around the world.
Yes, we are well aware of Steven and Nick and their program. We have had them as guests on our show. We even promote their show. Don't think that they do the same for us, but we are nice guys and think everyone deserves a helping hand.
Notice that you mentioned that both of them had served in the armed forces, so if that makes a difference. The Doc did his national service with the Royal Ulster Rifles and Quinny collect "rubber bullets" from the army and police in the bad old days back in Belfast.
He tells us that is how he learnt to dodge and weave. Must have learnt well for he played for Larne, Everton, Los Angeles Aztecs, Montreal Manic, Hamilton Steelers, San Diego Sockers, and the USA national team. (48 caps)
Brian Rudge (The Budgie) had to suffer by attending as many game in the North East of England as possible and so he like George W. Bush was excused from protecting the shores of his country.
Lets face it if you had a choice of watching Manchester City, Blackburn, Blackpool, Stockport, Bolton, Crewe, Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere every week or joining the army and be posted abroad, the choice is easy - Give me my rifle.
Steve and Nick have down well considering that the have never kicked a ball in anger and Nick who says he is a Liverpool supporter couldn't find his way to Anfield if you dropped him in the middle of Liverpool. Steve says he is a Chelsea supporter, but we and others know different.
We hope that they are successful and we welcome all soccer talk radio shows here in North America. Bring them on the more the "merrier"
We have big plans for Inside Soccer and very shortly we will be having a "Soccer in Canada" each week. Thirty minutes of all the action, including interviews with team owners. managers, coaches, player, journalist, administrators and of course the fans. Can't do a show without the fans.
Hope you will come on the show and give us your insights, opinions and views.
Thank you for listening. Promise you every week, we will still try to get in right and don't forget:
"If you can't get to game this weekend, Let us bring the game to you"
Tell all your soccer buddies that the call is free 1 888 514 2100 and we are waiting.
Take Care Be Safe & We Will See You On The Radio
Brian, Brian & Brian - Inside Soccer on Worldtalkradio.com
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 5:39 PM from IP address 66.185.85.69
"Lets face it if you had a choice of watching Manchester City, Blackburn, Blackpool, Stockport, Bolton, Crewe, Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere every week or joining the army and be posted abroad, the choice is easy - Give me my rifle"
I'm still laughing , thankyou
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 9:36 AM from IP address 24.43.168.118
When opportunity knocks, we better be ready. For those of us who are disgruntled with the state of soccer in Canada, this is the time where opportunities present themselves for us to be heard in the larger world outside of our own community. It is when the senior men's national team competes in World Cup qualifying, that communities outside our own take notice of us. This is the year when the media takes an interest. Television, radio and the press will all cover the exploits of our team. Chances like the Inside Soccer show on worldtalkradio.com, visable front row seats at World Cup match, or a letter to a newspaper or magazine are just some of the ways we can be heard. We need to exchange opportunities as soon as we become aware of them, and be prepared as to what the message is that we want to deliver. The time to plan is now, not the day before the first Belize match. If things go wrong against Belize (HEAVEN FORBID), we can not allow Pipe and Co. to lay low and escape for another four years. How long are we going to allow this man to retain control unscathed? He does not have a job for life. After twenty years without results (a World Cup appearance), without building any new stadiums, without a year-round national training centre and without a national league, they still have the audacity to consider themselves a major player in the world's premier sport. This is a delusion that I can not support any longer and will withdraw from.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 1:58 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Good points Robert .Lets support a candidate to be elected to CSA
by FAN
I agree making plans and taking action now is the route to take.
However I dont beleive its just Andy Sharpe.
I beleive Andy is doing his best but his best isnt even good.
Also its not just one man at the CSA and his removal will just result in another member of the "organisation of good ol boys" being slotted in .
The CSA is systemically incompetent.
I would like to introduce steps to systematically select and then nominate a group of individuals to be nominated and or hired by the CSA.
From what I have seen there are several forum members here at voyageur and on the ontariosoccerweb.com forum who would be excellent starting canadidates.
This forum could be used to have the posters here select the appropriate people and then support and nominate them as each and every CSA position becomes available up untill the 2006 and beyond.
You dont have to be a member or even a poster here but you could nominate anyone and have them join and then nominate them.The point is that I beleive there is a good and intelligent knowledgeable cross section here on these forums that could eassily select appropriate candidates.
To be nominated you would at least have to state your plans and intentions in a step by step format for review.
A brief period of debate between 3 eligible candidates then a vote.
Then follwong the CSA election procedures or hiring process nominate them and support them for the position.
Supporting candidates to be elected or hired by the CSA is a viable positive productive use of this forum we should utilize.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:49 PM from IP address 64.231.34.62
The place to evaluate someone's credentials isn't on some anonymous web site, by a bunch of people typing while sitting on their arses.
Anyone considered for leadership positions at the club, provincial, or national level needs to be someone who is out doing, not someone at home typing.
If you want to create change, do it on the pitch, not on a web site.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 4:54 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
since most people who are out to lunch are usually that way because they are incapable of self-criticism, and this one more than most. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. And this so-called "FAN" wonders why his drivel is ignored.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 11:29 AM from IP address 24.68.180.65
If everyone can just cool it. We all have our opinions and we're never going to agree on everything. That is okay, we are all on the same side and I am willing to walk in the middle to seperate the emotions. It is good to have all of you participating for it shows a common interest. Bickering amongst ourselves will have the same effects that countries subjected to Civil Wars experience, chaos and destruction. Some may think my ideas make me a fool, or worst. No problem, give me suggestions or insights that might helped and we both benefit. Alone, none of us can accomplish much, if anything. Together, if we organize and are willing to compromise we have a chance to change things. The Fan made a good point when he suggested that, one only looses if he quits. We have participated on this same post, now we need to get on the same page. Personally, I would be proud to go into battle (of wits) with, not against each and every one of you. To get on the same page, we need to establish what we share in common, which is a lot harder to do than sharing how we differ. Once we establish our common concerns we can focus on the options of how to address these. Take some time and write down some of the changes you would like to see happen to soccer as they affect Canada. Post only your ideas and let's see what kind of response we have by next Wednesday, April 7th. Don't comment or make a response on anyone's posts until April 7th. Let us start slow and easy. There will be time later for all of us to release all that pent up energy.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:52 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
CONCACAF Carribbean Qualifying Continues This Weekend......
by Winnipeg Fury
CONCACAF Caribbean qualifying continues this weekend
26.3.04 - The 2006 CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying Caribbean First Round Series continue this weekend with Cuba holding a 2:1 edge over the visiting Cayman Islands as they play at the Estadio Pedro Marrero in La Habana on 27 March, while Surinam also has a 2:1 advantage against Aruba at the Andre Kamperveen Stadium in Paramaribo, Surinam.
St. Lucia has a 1:0 aggregate lead over visiting British Virgin Islands going into their second-leg encounter set for National Stadium in Vieux Fort on 28 March.
The Caribbean First Round Qualification concludes on 31 March with Antigua & Barbuda (2:0 edge) traveling to face Netherlands Antilles at the Ergilio Hato Stadium in Willemstad, while St. Kitts & Nevis (4:0 advantage) greets US Virgin Islands at the Warner Park Stadium in Basseterre.
CONCACAF 2006 FIFA WORLD CUP QUALIFYING
First Round
SERIES 4
28.03.2004: Vieux Fort, ST. LUCIA; National Stadium (17:00)
ST. LUCIA – BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS
R: Jean-Francois CORRIVAULT (CAN)
St. Lucia leads 1:0 on aggregate
SERIES 5
27.03.2004: La Habana, CUBA; Estadio Pedro Marrero (15:00)
CUBA – CAYMAN ISLANDS
R: Marco RODRIGUEZ (MEX)
Cuba leads 2:1 on aggregate
SERIES 6
27.03.2004: Paramaribo, SURINAME; Andre Kamperveen Stadium (17:00)
SURINAM – ARUBA
R: Peter PRENDERGAST (JAM)
Surinam leads 2:1 on aggregate
SERIES 7
31.03.2004: Willemstad, NETHERLANDS ANTILLES; Ergillo Hato Stadium (20:30)
NETHERLANDS ANTILLES – ANTIGUA & BARBUDA
R: Richard PIPER (TRI)
Antigua & Barbuda leads 2:0 on aggregate
SERIES 8
26.03.2004: Nassau, BAHAMAS; BFA National Stadium (19:00)
DOMINICA – BAHAMAS
R: Mark FORDE (BRB)
28.03.2004: Nassau, BAHAMAS; BFA National Stadium (15:00)
BAHAMAS – DOMINICA
R: Jose PINEDA (HON)
SERIES 9
31.03.2004: Basseterre, ST. KITTS & NEVIS; Warner Park Stadium (19:00)
ST. KITTS & NEVIS – US VIRGIN ISLANDS
R: Neftali RECINOS (SLV)
St. Kitts & Nevis leads 4:0 on aggregate
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 10:53 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
St Lucia 9 British Virgin Islands 0 - World Cup qualifier
VIEUX FORT, St Lucia, March 28 (Reuters) - St Lucia 9 British Virgin Islands 0 - result. World Cup qualifier, CONCACAF zone, preliminary round, second leg.
St Lucia win 10-0 on aggregate
Halftime: 3-0
Scorers: Sheldon Emmanuel 13pen, 71pen, 72, Elijah Joseph 23, Earl Jean 28, Jarvin Skeete 47, 55, Titus Elva 53, Baptiste 90
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 10:47 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
There would be 8 teams and 4 regional derbies eg the Central Amateur Champion vs. the Central pro champion
Afterwards the Praries Campion vs. Pacific Champion, Central Champion vs Atlantic Champion
Then it is the East Champion vs. West Champion
This could be used to replace the National Amateur Championships as I feel that having 10 teams fly to one central location is not cost efficient.(and the teams have to play in groupings anyway, why no have them play interprovincial and create rivalries that way )
Re: pro teams I doubt they will want to break away from the A-League(as much as it is favored on this board) so the ''Liechtenstien option'' where their clubs play in the Swiss leagues but the country has its own National Cup looks like the best choice for now. (Do you ever see the A-League teams breaking away into a Canadian league???)
As well if you look at the Rugby Ontario document further they are proposing an Ontario Premier Rugby Division with an East and West Division for the province. Given that the CPSL was to be called the OPSL originally, it could make sense to merge the CPSL and OSL.
Thoughts?
Looking forward to your reply.
Reflecting on your CPPL(Canadian Provincial premiership League) proposal, I see some potential problems with having the teams play from Sept to Nov, its because the players are usually back in school or trying out for Euroclubs. MAYBE if the CPPL were played over the summer(may to August), there may be potential for it to work.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 9:29 PM from IP address 65.94.92.164
Another huge game for Hannover 96 tomorrow as they host Borussia Dortmund. New coach Lienen has Julian de Guzman odd man out in the midfield so expect him on the bench in favour of a defensive midfield featuring Lala, Dabrowski and Jaime tomorrow. Lienen plays a 4-4-2, with Mathis the attacking mid behind two strikers.
Hannover remain in relegation territory and this game will not be easy (they were hammered 6-2 in the first round in Dortmund).
Paul Stalteri and Werder Bremen can start chilling the champagne if they can get a win in Stuttgart over VfB Stuttgart on Sunday (FSWC). They have an 11 point lead over Bayern Munich who host Borussia Moenchengladbach tomorrow with 9 games to go.
Tam Nsaliwa will likely not start as Jahn Regensburg visit Alemannia Aachen on Sunday in the Bundesliga 2.
Victor Oppong is back with the Saarbrucken reserve side in the Oberliga Southwest. They play SC Idar-Oberstein on Sunday.
The Junioren Bundesliga teams are off for a couple of weeks but 1860 Munich do have a make up game this weekend. No word on the status of Nik Ledgerwood with the club.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 10:48 AM from IP address 68.145.134.137
Notes: This list may be incomplete or inaccurate. Generally only premiere broadcasts are listed (in particular, FSWC repeats are not listed). All broadcasts are live unless otherwise noted. All times are EST.
Friday, March 26
8:00 PM (tape-delayed from March 20) on FSWC — United States: MISL
Milwaukee (Semir Mesanovic, Giuliano Oliviero) vs. Dallas (Martin Dugas, Martin Nash)
Sunday, March 28
3:00 PM (tape-delayed from 10:30 AM) on FSWC — Germany: Bundesliga
Stuttgart vs. Werder Bremen (Paul Stalteri)
4:15 PM on ExpressVu 403 — Portugal: Super Liga
Benfica (Fernando Aguiar) vs. Alverca
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 7:34 AM from IP address 24.156.163.244
We need a changing of the CSA gaurd. The state of soccer in Canada since the 1986 World Cup has gone from frustating, to embarrassing, to disgraceful. All during the reign of Pipe. Presidents, coaches and players have come and gone.
1988 - Guatemala 0-1, 3-2
1993 - Australia 2-1, 1-2, 1-4 (penalty-kicks)
1997 - Mexico 0-4, 2-2
1997 - USA 0-3, 0-3
1997 - El Salvador 0-0, 1-4
1997 - Jamaica 0-0, 0-1
1997 - Costa Rica 1-0, 1-3
2000 - Trinidad 0-2, 0-4
2000 - Panama 0-0, 1-0
2000 - Mexico 0-2, 0-0
20 matches played, 4 wins, 5 ties, 11 losses, 12 - 34
Tony Taylor, Bob Lenarduzzi and Holger Osieck are all gone. The only common denominator throughout is Mr. Kevan Pipe. When is he going to leave? ISM publisher Alfons Rubbens has voiced his opinions, so has senior columnist Dennis Fitter. Together with you, we need to make our collective voice heard. Enough is enough! We can not sit idle, if we want our performance to change, than we need to change the only thing that has not changed, MR. KEVAN PIPE.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 2:19 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
some request,some stats,some interpretation.
He Robert,I am not in favour of this mutiny or removal petition of Kevin.I know the guy and he has done a good job under some tough circumstances.
They did hire some very high profile soccer coaches with the highest of credentials.It would be fascinating to get these guys speak of the record and find out what they believe to be the real reason of some of the pitfalls in Canadian soccer.
It may very well include less than complementary observations of the CSA,yet what the hell can the CSA do better.Just to request for the removal of someone with some alternative plan is not kosher.
I ofter wonder if Canada has the climate and the appropiate travel distances for a proper soccer league.
The lack of my pet peeve,the so called you know what media,the lack of proper marketing and the lack of soccer interest in this country by those that call the image shots the movers and the shakers.
We are not on the football,hockey or baseball pedestall.
We are less than second class citizins and that is what the CSA has to fight or change.Our image.
Very difficult.They have managed to increase the soccer registration to put it on top.This is remarkable and to read that we are facing serious shortages in soccer fields across Canada,well that seems to be a big plus for the CSA one way but we must have all the politicians behind us,they vote for the appropiations,they control the coffers.One of the pedestal makers.
This by the way makes me wonder how the Lynx office feels about the funding of the various professional teams under the Chretien government using this slush fund.We are not on the pedestal.Maybe they should ask for the money anyway ,equal rights etc.
Anyway let us take it easy on Kevin he is trying awfully hard.
He I even may have to take you back to Holland
we will sit in the Kuip and we will than decide which way we think Canada should go.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 6:10 PM from IP address 216.129.201.32
I hope Kevan doesn't either, as we have never met. My opinions are based solely on observations of his stewardship. Maybe you could elaborate on some of the tough circumstances you alluded to. I agree, running the Canadian soccer program is the toughest post in Canada. But, if you're not making any progress, of which Kevan has had ample time to do, then he is not the right man for the job. Why did those high profile coaches loose their jobs? Exactly! I know that I could do more for Canadian soccer, than what has transpired in the last 18 years. I could guarantee a National Training Centre, with an ongoing player development program, for players from u15 to the senior levels, in operation before the 2010 World Cup. I don't believe that we are second class citizens. If the numbers we are given are accurate, then we are very numerous and powerful, given the right leadership. Soccer, in a country as affluent as Canada, is a product which does not require goverment hand-outs. Our politicians should be proud of our teams, and not financially supporting our welfare. Only we can change our own image. The CSA did not make soccer popular in Canada, the game does that all by itself. The CSA's function is to organize the game so that it satisfies the masses, and I personally have not spoken with anyone who is content with the status quo. You talk about a shortage of soccer fields in Canada, talk about an understatement. The politicians are like investors, show them a moneymaker and they'll be there. As far as equal rights concerned, they are a priviledge earned and worked for, just ask any woman or minority group. Yes, I would like to take it easy on Kevan, but my love for Canadian soccer will not allow me. We would be better of to give Kevan a $1,000,000 handshake and let him take it easy. After ensure Canada qualifies for a World Cup finals by no later than 2014, I will pass the reigns of power over to the next generation and then we can go; "hand in hand, naar de kuip toe."
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 7:38 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
...already exist and they do need to be supported.
But the one thing that seems to hold us back is the lack of a real domestic league(and I am NOT talking about the CPSL in Ontario, that doesn't seem to cut it.) Yet there are so many constraints to starting one in Canada because of our geography and climate. (as Johnn stated) How would you be able to start a league in Canada if you were head of the CSA?(Perhaps use the provincial select teams that meet only for tournaments in the summer, and tuen them into full-on teams)
PS Agreed soccer should NOT require government handouts.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 7:56 PM from IP address 65.94.92.164
why can't we organize a CSA Open Cup and have it televized, but they can't seem to even get this accomplished. I have heard promises in the past but no action.
How much would this cost? Televized semis and final between A league teams and the winner of the CPSL and Canadian Amateur Championships or something to that effect.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 8:06 PM from IP address 139.142.4.152
You have both expressed serious concerns which need to be addressed. One thing I would do different than Kevan Pipe is to make myself available publicly to you and the legions of Canadian soccer supporters on this forum. It is impossible to be all-knowing in a country this big. Organized domestic competition and current televised coverage are key issues. The Voyageurs are a powerful asset and your input is needed.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 8:28 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
A Canada cup with the winner representing Canada at the concacaf level
the original should involved the winner of the national amateur championship and the A-league teams in a tournament format early spring in Ottawa under the dome should be good enough
A-league team can use that as a perfect way for preseason training a la grapefruit league instead of traveling from place to place for lower level tune up games at almost the same cost.
this setup will be more beneficial for their preparation with top level competition all around
with at least 4 competitive games under their belt to kick off the A league season equivalent of at least 1 month of A-league play at minimal cost thus ensuring that they will be ready from the get go.
Canada will have his own cup and the teams seasoned for league play.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 10:15 AM from IP address 209.226.121.110
On a list of what Canadian soccer needs most, a recognized National Championship is certainly at or very near the top. A preseason competition amonst Canadian A League teams sounds great, and a spot in the Concacaf Championship might be the incentive for owners to consider this proposition. It would be up to the CSA to secure a place for the Canada champion. A tournament as you propose could be staged on an annual rotation system amongst A league cities in Canada, similar to how the World Cup now rotates between confederations. A theoretical format, with the current number of five teams, could be to play each other once, which would comprise of ten games. The first place team receives a bye into the final, and the second and third place teams would play a semi-final. That would keep competition in the group stage exciting until the end, as the lower teams would be battling for the final play-off spot and the top teams doing the same for the bye into the final. That would make for a total of twelve games. The could be played in one week, by starting with double-headers from Monday thru Friday, the semi-final on Saturday and the final on Sunday. Or the tournament could be played over nine days, start on a Saturday and finish on the following Sunday. We already have the teams, we need to have the CSA to organize a competition which satisfies the whole soccer community, owners, fans, and Concacaf. Is this present administration capable of successfully undertaking such a task? Thus far, they have not done so.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 11:24 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Lets give credit where credit is due.THE VOYAGEUR FORUM constantly comes up with superior sensible plans and ideas week to week and if the CSA would have adopted or come up with even one of these plans over the past year they would be at lease considered competent.Nevr mind the last twenty years of "no real plan" or "no real succesful marketing plan" or "no succesful Canadian national team" (except the womens team in the under 23 in edmonton and worldcup last year).Considering soccer has the most amount of players of any sport even hockey this is an utter disgrace of incompetence.
The CSA and its entire staff for the last 20 years are an embarassment and totally incompetent group who all would have been fired for one year of such incompetence.The poster above mentioned the a canadian national title,excellent idea but a great example of how incompetent the CSA IS , and worse completely unconcerned and caring that this is so fc**** obvious they know this but wont even tryto come up with this idea and implement it.Thats called willful negligence .
Some people were asking "what can the CSA do there trying?" you have to be kidding or completely ignorant to have that point of view and if thats your actual defence which i have heard numerous members of the CSA state publiclly over the last 20 years you should resign or be fired.
If the Canadian Soccer Association had one succesful mens team or supported one Canadian professional team that in itself would drive the support and financial backing automatically from the fans corporations and even the government.This has been proven extensively throughout sport worldwide.But the fact remains the CSA have been an utter failure for 20 year s with tiny insignificant successes and No significant succesful national mens team .With the resources and passion and sheer number of people that love aand play this game in Canada that is totally unacceptable.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 2:26 PM from IP address 67.68.61.44
the way things are, we should be glad that we have soccer at all in this part of the hemisphere.
I came here in 73. The ups and downs of soccer here have been sometimes unbearable. But soccer is still here.
Also, the rest of the world is catching up with us now.
Soccer is not what it used to be. At least in Germany it isn't.
So, in a world of shoestring budgets, where do we fit in?
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 4:00 PM from IP address 65.95.61.173
this 'concept' has been discussed at higher levels before, as far as I know.
Secondly, this is not a concept, rather an idea.
To conceptualize such an idea you need a lot of equal minds plus a huge sponsor.
You said: "to organize a competition which satisfies the whole soccer community, owners, fans, and Concacaf"
That in itself is a huge undertaking.
I would love to see something evolve from that idea, but I don't see interest from anybody involved.
I think the idea is good, but the issue too complex to simply make it simple....
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 3:54 PM from IP address 65.95.61.173
but to unite people is a very difficult thing nowadays.
Have you ever been involved with club politics?
And I don't mean Bayern Munich or Madrid...
Any little youth club will do.
Heck, don't let me discourage you.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 10:51 PM from IP address 67.69.201.103
Have zero tolerance for negative comments from the parents, towards the players and the officials (if you have them at that level in your league). Positive cheering only, and for the whole team. Remind the parents that their kids are embarrassed when their parents cheer for them by name, just like you, me, and they were embarrassed by that when we were kids too. It's more important for the kids to see their parents on the sideline then hear them. Thank the officials after each game, and make sure the players and parents do so too. We need to keep every ref we have!
Set the example. You can't expect parents or players to "get on with it," if you are loudly disputing every throw in. And really, who cares which way they go?
Make sure that all kids get even playing time, at all positions (even though some will whine, or some of their parents may). Make sure your praise for players is for the effort and skills they use, not for the goals they score and the games they win (you can control effort and and technique, you can not control results).
Make sure you get some assistance from at least one of the other parents.
It's tough, but rewarding. Coaches at every level second guess themselves, but as long as you learn from your self-criticism, that's all you can hope for.
Find out what drills other good coaches are using.
Cheers, and good luck.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:17 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
I'm sure I'll think of some of these words of wisdom as the season progesses. It sounds like you're very experienced, and I appreciate the values you have shared with us. We should all have been this lucky. It is a short season, only two months, but I'm sure that for a rookie like myself that will be long enough.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 9:29 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
An alternative to a Canada Cup tournament could be a semi-pro Trans-Canada League. Where teams would play in one or two province division. This would cut down on travelling expenses, players could receive a percentage of the gates. A portion of the gates is also be allocated to to pay for the expense of competing in a divisional play-off, i.e. British Columbia and Alberta could form a division with teams representing Victoria, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton. The major expense would be a two game road trip to the neighbouring province. Each team would play each opponent home and away, for a six game divisional league. The winners of this pacific division would play a home and away conference series with the champion of a central division which could include teams from Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg and Brandon. Ontario and Quebec, as the eastern division should have no problems finding two teams to join Toronto and Montreal. They would play the winners of a four team atlantic division which could include among others Halifax and St. John's. A one game final in a predetermined city would determine a Canadian champion.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 8:59 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
exactly where is the Fck*** IS THE CSA they must be in a coma
by FAN
I was going to post something very similar robert.PIPE AND SHARPE are brain dead they have no interest or passion in anything but collecting their there paycheque and go home happy.
They said that on the broadcast "the travel expenses across the country is too expensive"
Even if that were true your idea robert would be a reasonable alternative. AND THEY THE CSA have had 20 years to think of something how long did it take you ROBERT?
Then they mentioned the weather. bull**** the average mean temperature and conditions in several places in Canada are much better than a lot of european ,russian or nordic climates.
Christ how many european games have i watched in frozen snow bound conditions in the premiership and europe?Tons !
THEY JUST DONT CARE!
They all should be fired today
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 9:39 PM from IP address 67.68.61.44
Like you said, the CSA just gives us excuses why we can not do things. They do not find ways to overcome the obstacles every other soccer federation or association in the world runs into. What was really embarrassing was to hear our brass blaming Holger that we have not had a senior men's international played in Canada for almost four years now. Has Frank Yallop followed Holger's path so far? I know that when Argentina won the 1978 World Cup their coach only selected one player who played in Europe, Mario Kempes. Only, if a Canadian is hot on a top European club should he be invited to represent Canada. Radzinski and Stalteri yes, the guys playing in the second and third divisions in Sweden, Scotland, Holland, ect. no way. Go with North American based players, it's cheaper and faster to get them. It also rewards our A League boys and gives them incentive.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 10:20 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Almost the same layout. That could even be used for a Canada Open Cup. Regional Rivalries, reduced travelling costs. No need for this ten team finals for amateur teams(where they're all flown to on location)
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 10:48 PM from IP address 65.94.231.147
The Rugby people have taken the initiative, I would like to get involved in helping soccer develop to a higher level in Canada. Like any man, I have my limitations, however I know that I would be a positive contribution to our common cause, which is to give soccer an identity in Canada. The sport we love is bearly operating at the most extreme, amateurish and indifferent level that I know of. We need people who are going to dedicate themselves in any capacity to help bring soccer out of the dark ages.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 10:03 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
The CSA are incompetent..Clueless as how to arrange an international match or raise mone
by FAN
Worst of all the CSA have no desire to arrange an international match.The owner of Inside Soccer magazine said it last night on worldtalk radio there ahs not been an international match that doesnt involve a canadian team the CSA has "a rule" where they state a Canadian club must be involved.I dont know what he means by "rule" but it is irrelevant this is the point I was making several times in the past.Alphy said there is some news that the CSA is going to kill the upcoming match between Celtic and Roma as well.There is only one reason and it is the main reason they kill all soccer involvement outside of their domain or control, they do this because they dont make income and they lose control.
In the past twenty years ago entrepreneurs like steve stavro (an example: there were several others)used to purchase international games between clubs like ABERDEEN VS Manchester united or several other games like Santos vs Sparta these games were common and they generated huge amounts of fan and media support and income for the owners who parlayed this money into suppporting professional clubs and amateur soccer in Canada.
Then the CSA started charging huge amounts in so called "fees" to these entreprenures if they attempted to arrange a match.Even Andy Sharpe used the word "entreprenures" with scorn and dirision last night.
So they have effectively cut off all possible interest passion and media or financial support in Canada now.
That was and is their goal or mandate. Now that they have succesfully killed soccer in Canada except for anything that directly brings income into their own personal pockets or the CSA's administration kitty they have no idea of hoe to arrange a professional soccer match or market or run the CSA.
tHE ONTARIOSOCCERWEB.COM forum and many others are full of posts of parents utterly stunned ant the beaurcratic strangle the osa and the csa have imposed on there kids and clubs.
The electoral policy for the OSA and the CSA is designed to ensure there is no democratic procedure whatsoever and the people who are on the board stay on the board and in salaried positions of power.
They have implemented a system to communicate with all there members thar guarantees less than 15% of their membership are even capable of acccessing the information.Its call LOTUS NOTES!
Ever here of it?
Unless your an IT guy or can remember 20 years ago you probably have not.
First of all this software is very expensive extremely difficult to use and full of huge technical problems .I know because I am a techy geek .
But thats not the worst part less thaan 15% of people in their membership own it and they directly state your club must buy it and use it solely to communicate or your out.
That is a perfect example of how they isolate themselves nad ensure sovereign power.The recent examples of them now changing bylaws in the OSA to effectively ban or eliminate any clubs orgaisations or leagues that dont follow their new "authorized" criteria is evidence of their tyranny.
So now that they have kiiiled off alll interest and passion at the pro level they are making sure they do it at the amateur level.
They have been killing the passion and interest in soccer for so long now and it is so systemically interwoven in their mindset and organisatiobnal members they have no idea hoew to promote soccer.And certainly no interest in supporting anyone else but themselves who atempt to.If you can speak privately to the owners of the LYNX even they will tell you the kinds of negative political backstabbing they have encountered from the CSA.
The CSA must be dismantled if you have any chance for soccer to thrive in Canada.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 3:10 PM from IP address 64.231.43.42
that Celtic and Roma will convert Toronto into Soccer Nuts?
Well, that is beside the point.
But, promoting events and staging serious competitions is a difference.
If you say that the CSA does not enough to stage competitions, I have to agree. But you cannot fault them for not endorsing an 'entroponeurial event'.
Besides the fact of how the CSA came about, it is now the governing body, and as such it needs to flex its muscle. In my opinion it is up to the organizer to come to terms with the rules and act accordingly.
If 90% of you/us don't like the CSA's doings, hey, perhaps a revolution is in place?
Start all over again?
Kill soccer as it is over a lousy Celtic-Roma game?
Why not.
And why does the organizer not envolve a Canadian team?
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 11:10 PM from IP address 67.69.201.103
stick with the main point its about all little things add up to make the CSA ****e
by FAN
No the roma/celtic game by itself is small and will not have a huge effect one way or another however it is an example by itself and when added with all of the other examples it finishes the puzzle of incompetence that is the CSA today.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 11:44 PM from IP address 64.231.43.42
is really interested in soccer in this country, he would have approached the whole event differently, anyway.
To come up with a game like this is nothing.
It's a flash in the pan.
It could have been made memorable, by talking things over with the CSA and involve them from the start.
This could have become a major soccer hoopla in TO if done right. But frankly, if I were the one to install the grass at the dome I would be really wondering: for what?
Perhaps the CSA don't know how to do things properly, especially events like that. But it is proven that talks can create miracles.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 5:30 PM from IP address 65.95.62.7
This isn't about sport, or even growing a business, it's about making a quick buck of off a business that must have been highly lucrative last summer. You can't dump on someone for wanting to provide a product that there is demand for, because it's still your choice to buy or not. Our capitalistic system has benefits that far outweigh the disadvantages.
However, governmental or other organisations must get involved if a venture isn't one that is attractive to private business. This includes many longer term projects, where long term effort, investment, and events are required to create a customer base. In that sense, I agree that the CSA does have a huge effect, largely by not doing things that make sense to grow the sport.
Even though I wouldn't pay to watch a Euro exhibition game played in Canada, it is churlish and counter-productive to attempt to prevent it, and rather stupid not to use it as a vehicle to promote your agenda and product.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 2:34 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
To be honest I know the squads will be fleeced and the match probably not all that great , but considering the largest Celtic supporters club (outside of Glasgow) is in Canada and I know personally that many of the london road boys are flying over, the crowd alone should be worth attending.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 9:42 AM from IP address 24.43.168.118
Why would a team the size of Aberdeen be involved in one of these games? Why would the people running a tour with such big names include an insifnificant team? The stadiums this tour played in last year were all 50K+. Aberdeen can't even sell 20K tickets in their home town. They'd be annhiliated by Roma, or other elite teams, worse than Celtic was last year by Man U in Seattle. And they wouldn't have the drawing power of Celtic, Juve, Man Utd, etc. As it is, weren't some of the games last summer, that didn't have Real Madrid or Man U in them, not sold out?
And how much real atmosphere can there be when the crowd is thrown together like that? There may be lots of noise, but you get that at any big sports event.
I'm really not a fan of this stuff. I'd pay to see big teams if I were in Europe, and I'd pay to see the Whitecaps play a decent foreign team (went over for the game against San Jose of MLS) but really, these games are a rip-off, and it's amazing so many sheep will line up to pay big money to be counted as a "target market."
Cheers.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 12:49 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
No one has mentioned the fact of taking Legal Action against the CSA to challenge their authority and record. Any Lawyers on this board? Can legal action be taken against them to have them removed as representatives of Canadian Soccer. Seems to me what people say here and if based on fact, you would have a good case. We have seen the sponsorship scandal, who knows what goes on in the CSA?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 1:20 AM from IP address 209.148.233.60
The vision of Soccer in Canada declares what our sport stands for and is working towards:
- To provide opportunities to all our Members ranging from World Cup victories to participation appropriate to everyone's abilities.
(Failing grade. Why are so many national team players (our most valuable resources) forced to go outside this country to find a league to play in and earn a living?)
- To encourage positive values in all aspects of the sport.
(Failing grade. This is so subjective, I could go on for hours.)
- To be recognized as a major player in the world's premier sport.
(Failing grade. At no level are we recognized as a major player. Politically or competitively.
As a result of the above, all decisions on programs and resources are made by answering the question:
"How does this help achive the vision for soccer?"
(How has Kevan Pipe helped achive these vision?)
The Mission Statement:
- The Canadian Soccer Association, in partnership with its members are dedicated to promoting the growth and development of soccer for all Canadian at all levels.
(Failing Grade. What is their form of promotion? They are unapproachable and their communication is not interactive. What is their fear in publicly facing questions regarding their accountability?)
- That, in this pursuit, The Canadian Soccer Association, in partnership with its Members, are committed to providing leadership and good governance for our sport.
(Failing grade. Who determines if the CSA has done a good job? How is this evaluated? Who for the last 18 years has determined the Kevan Pipe as Chief Operating Officer has performed satisfactorly? Who is Kevan Pipe accoutable to?
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 12:49 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Remunerating players based on their performance would be the only way to implement a semi-pro system that guarantees you don't go broke on labour costs. For example; 6,000 people attend a match and paid an average ticket price of $10. Total ticket sales would be $60,000. If the player's share were 50% and the team consisted of 15 players, each would receive $2,000, or $1,000 per game if based on one home and one away game. The other 50% would go to travelling expenses, coaching salaries, administrative costs and stadium costs. The club would still have to generate more capital through sponsorship, merchandising, tv and radio contracts, ect. Thus, the players would be motivated to perform and entertain as this would increase attendance, ticket sales and personal income.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 7:38 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Remunerating players based on their performance would be the only way to implement a semi-pro system that guarantees you don't go broke on labour costs. For example; 6,000 people attend a match and paid an average ticket price of $10. Total ticket sales would be $60,000. If the player's share were 50% and the team consisted of 15 players, each would receive $2,000, or $1,000 per game if based on one home and one away game. The other 50% would go to travelling expenses, coaching salaries, administrative costs and stadium costs. The club would still have to generate more capital through sponsorship, merchandising, tv and radio contracts, ect. Thus, the players would be motivated to perform and entertain as this would increase attendance, ticket sales and personal income.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 7:39 PM from IP address 24.69.255.203
Remunerating players based on their performance would be the only way to implement a semi-pro system that guarantees you don't go broke on labour costs. For example; 6,000 people attend a match and paid an average ticket price of $10. Total ticket sales would be $60,000. If the player's share were 50% and the team consisted of 15 players, each would receive $2,000, or $1,000 per game if based on one home and one away game. The other 50% would go to travelling expenses, coaching salaries, administrative costs and stadium costs. The club would still have to generate more capital through sponsorship, merchandising, tv and radio contracts, ect. Thus, the players would be motivated to perform and entertain as this would increase attendance, ticket sales and personal income.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 7:40 PM from IP address 24.69.255.202
if Jim Patisson was in charge of the CSA he would have done it eons ago.
The record isn't good. Rich country with 30 million people and almost 1 million registered players is ranked 91 in the world for the men. We can't compete with Iceland with 300,000 people. Sure its not part of our culture and doesn't get media attention but the same applies for the U.S.A and they have leaped ahead of us during the Pipe regime.
We certainly could do better. We need change in management as well as the whole structure of the CSA.
Women failed to qualify for Olympics games and probably due to the lack of financial resources to have them properly prepared for the tournament.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 8:03 PM from IP address 139.142.4.152
... would even bother dealing with a non-money maker
like Canadian soccer.
The challenges are HUGE : poor/small budget, large
country (2nd in the world), hockey orientation and infrastructure, and lots of diverse egos. (Yep, that too.)
To compare us with USA is quite unfair, since the money
poured in by Nike is there. Corporate Canada supports
hockey, figure skating, swimming, and curling. Basketball, rugby , and yes, soccer, just get insignificant sums. (Yes, Steve Nash paid for many of the plane tickets for the 2000 Olympic team.)
I understand and respect the comparison to countries like Iceland, but I don't really buy it. We're developing, but I don't know if the CSA can raise the
level with a domestic league. For that alone is enough
to question Mr. Sharpe's leadership.
Posted on Mar 27, 2004, 3:23 PM from IP address 205.200.64.67
for Mr. Pattison, but Mr. Kerfoot appears to be
working with CSA on a Vancouver site so I suppose
he WOULD.
I share your frustration, but I'm just not as sure
as you regarding Mr. Pipe et. al. Any suggestions
for a replacement? Elevate Mr. Sharpe to his position?
Promote Bobby Lenarduzzi? Any suggestion is appreciated...
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 9:06 AM from IP address 205.200.64.67
Why just one individual, when we could operate from a collection of ideas and then vote on proposed motions? We all share the frustrations of the current system of a one man rules show. If we created our own political body with our own constitution we might just get somewhere. Any change is better than the current status quo. Say this hypothetical concept came to fruition, we would form a founding membership. Each membership would have a fee, $xxx.xx, with x,xxx members we would have a reserve of $xxx,xxx.xx. All meetings would be conducted on this forum, except for the Annual General Meeting which would be hosted in rotating cities at the same time the National team would play a game in that city, of course time minutes of the AGM would be posted live on this forum for those unable to attend. The membership would select delegates representing each province, who in turn would elect a council. All members could forward concerns which would be dealt with at monthly forum meetings. The council will have collected all these concerns and according to their frequency placed them in order, for instance; 100 concerns for a national soccer league, 75 concerns for a SSS, 50 cencerns for arranging more internationals, ect.. The national soccer league issue would be discussed first, ideas would be welcomed from the whole membership and when exhausted, the most feasable would be placed on a ballot and each member would cast a vote. The top three vote getters would be examined by advocate committees and proposal would be made and a final vote on which one to pursue would be made. Feed back please?
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 9:50 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
... sounds like you got it covered. But I'm not sure
committee after committee, after collective after
collective, would work. Just my opinion. We already
have sports bodies competing for dollars and decisions
AGAINST each other, let alone another collective
with not enough funding, coming together on several
issues.
But hey, your suggestion has some merit, despite my
misgivings ...
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 8:50 PM from IP address 205.200.64.67
his best interests were with Canadian soccer. Look at a dictator like Tito, he ruled with an iron fist, but always kept Yugoslavia interests first and foremost, same goes for Castro. Interesting both countries have soccer programs I would trade for with the current CSA dictator, who reminds me more of a Sadam Hussien. Although Sadam's places are far grander then the 3-story, 11,000 sq. ft. Victorian style heritage building which at one time was the residence of Canada's 3rd PM John Thompson, which the CSA purchased for $825,000 (or so they claim) back in 1996. Grand theft from the future of our youth. We can not afford this and that according to the CSA, but our Dictator has to have a pretty nice office. Hopefully, the value has appreciated enough to pay for Kevan's lifetime retirement costs. Shame, shame, shame.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 1:36 AM from IP address 24.69.255.203
I'm not sure about the comparisons with Tito and Castro.
And I don't think most Canadians would tolerate their
general lifestyle replaced by a sports-priority lifestyle. I'd suggest you avoid political comparisons
as it may offer your posture as exaggerations or extremist.
But I think you make a lot of points. Aside from the
lavish office (which is alarming), what other offenses
did the CSA do? I'm asking this respectfully, Robert,
as I just not aware of these issues.
Thanks.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 10:24 AM from IP address 205.200.64.67
about Pattison was not whether he would support Canadian soccer but that he would not put up for so long a time with lack of performance. I think we given enough chances for Kevan Pipe to prove his worth and its time for a new face. Time to put the excuses behind us such as we are not America, the media is against us and he is doing a good job.
I think a proper leader can have a huge impact on a sports organization. Look at Ken Read at Alpine Canada that program was in a shambles after the 2002 Olympics and he has virtually in 2 years transformed it. Corporate sponsorship is way up 4 million CIBC sponsorship over 4 years. One can also compare the CSA to tennis Canada (built own stadium) Rugby Canada ( has own Superleague and Rugby Foundation with 500,000 in there and rising).
Read through the old CSA documentation I am sure they were promising a CSA Foundation to build soccer grounds. The failure of the women to qualify for the Olympics has to a major failure and its time the upper management was held to account for this rather than the coach or players. You could on and on, lack of CSA Open Cup. Holger hiring. Hargreaves situation, 91 ranking in the world etc etc. So, I'm not comparing ourselves to the USA but rather most football federations in the world. There is close to 1 million registered players in Canada and we are ranked 91st in the world for the men. If you could get 20% of the 1 million registered players to donate 25.00 and receive a Canadian team poster that would be close to 3 million in individual donations to the CSA and what amount of individual donations does the CSA receive? Have they developed a national team poster for sale. I heard people say there was no merchandise for sale at recently held national team games.
So enough of the excuses.
Posted on Mar 31, 2004, 1:50 AM from IP address 139.142.4.162
Inside Soccer Talk Radio Looks At Soccer In Canada
by
Inside Soccer Talk Radio Looks At Soccer In Canada
Guests
Andy Sharpe – President Canada Soccer Association
Kevin Pipe – Executive Director Canada Soccer Association
Charmaine Hooper – Canadian International Player
Craig Forrest – Former Canadian International & TV Presenter
Alfons Rubens – Publisher Inside Soccer Magazine
Dennis Fitter – Canadian Soccer Journalist
Saul Markowicz – Nuke Soccer Website
And a Cast of Thousands All Over Canada
Listen to the number one soccer talk radio show in Canada and the USA
I guess the rumours of his progress there was a little underrated. Do you know any details on his time there? It's pretty tough to find anything on his club.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:41 PM from IP address 24.67.166.55
...before there are acres of white space on the board.
Here's Odd Grenland's stadium.
Does that really look any different from a packed Swangard or Claude Robilliard Stadium for an A League game to you? It's not even close to what the old Varsity stadium offered in TO when the Blizzard played in the NASL or what the Columbus Crew have in MLS right now IMO. Moving to Europe is not necessarily inherently a huge step upwards in terms of professionalism and facilities. Having top Canadian prospects going to clubs like this rather than being able to develop their potential as fully pro players right here in Canada is the key problem that needs to be solved by the CSA. The solution they appeared to be going for with the Exhibition Place plan in TO was MLS. There was even said to be an Investor/Operator lined up if the stadium were built. If that were to happen in 2007 or 2008 if/when the York U stadium materializes then emerging younger players like Occean and Friend would be playing their pro soccer in Canada rather than Norway.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 2:15 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
soccer in Scandanavia was amateur until comparatively recently...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...Norway does not have the long history of full-time professionalism that exists in England and Scotland. A few clubs in the last couple of decades have developed fully pro setups comparable to those in England within the three Nationwide divisions. Bronby, FC Copenhagen, Rosenborg Trondheim, IFK Gotenborg are the sort of clubs from major cities that regularly appear in Europe that fall into that sort of category but most top Scandanavian players move to other countries if they want to focus on having soccer as their only source of income.
The traditional Scandanavian approach in the smaller population centres revolves around a form of semi-professionalism for local players who maintain careers outside the game but negotiate working arrangements with employers so they can spend a lot of time during the season away from their regular job. A few pros are brought in from other countries to boost up the playing standards a bit depending upon the level of fan support within a summer season shorter than the European norm for climate reasons. That really is not that different from the A League in a lot of respects. The status of the Canadian players playing for second tier clubs there is therefore analogous to the players from small Caribbean islands and Bermuda who often get contracts within the A League to make a bit of money out of the game relative to what they would earn in a regular job at home without any serious expectation of ever hitting the big time.
Have you ever actually watched lower division pro games in smaller European countries?
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 3:40 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
Its interesting how the thinking has evolved in Europe with respect to bringing in foreigner in comparaison to it used to be in , say, 10 years ago. There use to be many 10 years ago that saw this an evil to the doemstic game and in player development. Remember the self analysis that was happening in England after their elimination in WCQ 94?. However, today its more widely accepted that good foreigners boost the quality of play in your league and hence the talent and preparedness of your domestic players for international play. This is where the a-league does fall behind. I cannot think of, off hand, of any foreigner who has ever played for the Lynx whose talents have really impressed me. Whereas I can say that about several domestic players who have played for the Lynx. Having a domestic club comprised entirely of foreigners would do no good for the game in canada in terms of development. But the complete opposite wouldn't be much better either. Especially if you you have other canadian clubs doing the same.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:15 PM from IP address 206.47.220.230
Massive player movement between countries keeps strong (ie wealthy) leagues strong, and keeps weak leagues weak. It perpetuates or exacerbates the status quo between leagues, and also between teams within leagues. It effectively condemns smaller national leagues to permanent fringe status. Which is why it takes millions to try and break the status quo; millions which Japan and the U.S. have, and which Canada, it seems, does not. As the figures get bigger, the gap between have and have-not leagues is widening.
Canada can't hope to attract foreign players as good as the domestic cream that leave; so importing players will probably never do much for us from the point of view of improving our teams and level of play - at least not at the current A-League level. However, you can see why our pro teams would rather import than develop players - it's an easier and less costly route.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:53 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
don't Wealdstone deserve most of the credit in his case?
by London Ont. soccer fan
...Thought the story was he was spotted by Wimbledon playing for a top London nonleague team part-time while working as a hod carrier on a building site.
Posted on Mar 29, 2004, 4:05 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
they knew each other for a while but he didnt really get a break into the professional game till after he became a 'star' in sweden, a few months there and he was back in england signging up for the crazy gang.
He wasnt your typical player as he gave up the game in his teens after his parents divorced, down on his luck he picked it back up.
Posted on Apr 1, 2004, 2:08 AM from IP address 24.43.168.118
The money is there, therefore so are the players. The teams are training and are covered by the media while their league is still a few months away. They have interclub friendlies indoors, they go to foreign tournaments (La Manga), etc.
Who knows what the level of play is like? It's really not that important when comparing it to the NA leagues. Sure, MLS might have a higher standard than the Norwegian or Swedish Premier, but the A-league definitely isn't (look at the players when they come back). The A-League is clearly bush league and that hurts it enormously. It is admittedly D2 in NA, but doesn't even align its rules with MLS? Who's going to take it seriously?
I follow a team in the league, but I still don't take the league seriously. There are a few teams that are a cut above the others and deserve to be in a true, pro, D2 league (Montréal, Vancouver, Charleston, Rochester, etc.).
I'd agree with Sharpe that a Canuck league where you can control the professionalism, look and feel of the league would be much better than the A-league, even if the standard of play is (at first), slightly worse in general.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:37 PM from IP address 65.92.185.91
I did read the rest of the message. I suspect the main difference is that I have actually seen what lower division soccer can be like in smaller European countries and you have not. In the Norwegian second tier last summer 5 of the 16 clubs averaged under 1000 spectators while the summer before that the figure was 9 out of 16:-
Only 4 clubs both years had over 2000 spectators which is usually the number at which full-time professionalism starts to be doable in most European countries. It probably takes more than that in Norway given their short 26 game season.
Note that a club called Oslo Ost had an average home attendance of 328 in 2003 despite being located in the capital city of ca. 500,000 people. Lyn Oslo traditionally Oslo's number two team after Valerenga had crowds in the second tier in 2000 of 630 which increased to 4203 a year later in 2001 after promotion to the top flight. That speaks volumes about how the Norwegian public perceives their second tier soccer.
The Lynx are having a training camp in Puerto Rico before their first game of the season against the Puerto Rica Islanders and the CPSL's Hamilton Thunder had a trip to either Bermuda or the Bahamas last summer so I wouldn't read too much into the La Manga stuff personally.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 8:12 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
From our experience and correspondents with Braz and Bernier (both 2nd-tier in 2003), the professionalism is definitely a step up on the A-League. Again, you need to look past stadium capacities and attendances. The Lynx, for example, with the 2,200 (or whatever) average, doesn't make them more professional than a team averaging half that. And, even looking past our first-tier boys (Occean, Atiba, Reda), we've heard from the players themselves and from the supporters the level pf professionalism.
Soccer is still marketed as a gimmick most of the time here. It is an activity like going to the movies or the park. It is still not seen like a "relevant" sport. And that's the biggest difference, from whic heverything trickles down.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 10:45 PM from IP address 65.92.185.91
What are the television revenues paid in Norway to clubs in their Tier I? Tier II?
If Canadian A-League teams got just $1M each from a (currently non-existant) television deal, what would that do to their bottom line? What percentage of their profit would it represent? Considering football in Norway has no competitors in the summer for the sports advertising dollar, the sponsorship numbers there could be significant.
Also, in a place where football is serious, what source of other off-field revenue do these clubs in Norway earn? Club house, coaching clinics, pub in the stadium - rather hard to know from here.
And what prices are being charged?
Lots of factors make these things more than an apples to apples comparison, and it's pretty hard to tell from here - although attendances certainly must tell some of the story.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 1:35 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
Considering 12-14 homes games (or whatever A league is now) thats almost 70-80000 a game. Skysports pays about 100000 pounds for an EPL match, so about 250000 canadian dollars, now compare the marketing value of the EPL to A league and see if a million a season for a TV deal seems right on face of that.
Posted on Mar 28, 2004, 6:55 PM from IP address 24.43.168.118
I was just guessing out loud. I have no idea what broadcasters pay to screen a game, in any sport. What does the CFL get paid per game? If a CSL were done properly, with a full televised schedule, I'm sure the ratings would be less than the CFL, but more than lacrosse, per game. Of course, that would be part of a group of improvements that would all have to be made to take Canadian soccer to the next level as a spectator sport.
And I'd be surprised if the EPL only got paid 100K pounds by broadcasters for its top games, but have nothing to refute or support your number. Man Utd versus Arsenal, and the broadcaster only pays 100K pounds to show that. They must be making some money then.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 30, 2004, 1:40 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
....to people who are obviously going to be talking up the soccer they regularly watch or are involved with be seriously decribed as "experience"? I've watched a lot of lower division games in Europe. Others in this thread probably have not although they won't admit it. We've also had RICK TITUS TELLING US HOW MUCH BETTER A LEAGUE PLAYERS ARE THAN THOSE HE TRAINED WITH AT PLYMOUTH ARGYLE. Who to believe?
In my experience soccer players never get cut from a team because they were not good enough. I can't remember ever being told that by anybody. The coach is always an idiot or doesn't like them, at the tryout they got injured and were not able to perform properly etc etc. If a soccer player moves to a new division it's always going to be spun by them as a move up the food chain closer to that big contract in the Premiership or Bundesliga.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 2:46 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
...on the one hand you are using Rick Titus's experiences in the 3rd Division to suggest the A-League and MLS is pretty good relatively speaking then apparently discounting every players experiences as inaccurate because they won't admit to themselves their shortcomings as players. perhaps I've misunderstood the argument.
I will say this, I've only seen the lower divisions in England, and that, aside from a few FA cup and promotion matches, was in 1978. I work on the assumpotion that these leagues have gotten stronger as a result of the influx of EU and other Foreign players. I find your asertions on the relative quality of the Norwegian Second and the Englsih Confernece Leagues hard to swallow.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 3:26 PM from IP address 167.129.240.10
What I was saying was that players assessments should not be taken at face value...
by London Ont. soccer fan
...because their emotions can cloud the picture so what they have to say may not be the cold hard reality. Here's an essay written by a Norwegian explaining why top Norwegian players tend to leave Norway to play elsewhere:-
Worth noting that Norwegian soccer is described as not being fully professional while that in the UK is as players have to have other jobs outside the game and that both the Premiership and the Nationwide First are seen as being a significantly higher level even than Norways top tier Tippeligen. Is it really unreasonable to expect that the second tier is equivalent to non-League based on that sort of assessment?
The Norwegians don't have the British cultural expectation that working class kids growing up in poorer neighbourhoods are going to drop out of high school completely at 16 before the age when university entrance exams are held to focus on carving out a career within soccer. In Norway they tend instead to get jobs or go to university and play soccer only in their spare time just like they would if they lived in Canada.
The influx of foreign players into the UK does not necessarily mean that the soccer at lower levels is as good as it was 25 years ago IMO. The proportion of the population that pursues an education beyond the minimum school leaving age has increased drastically since then so the portion of the population that professional soccer draws its players from (kids who leave school at the earliest opportunity with little or no academic qualifications) has shrunk considerably. In many European countries African players have become the children with limited economic prospects that professional clubs entice to drop everything to chase the dream.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 5:12 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
I never said that Plymouth Argyle players are so much better than Impact players, for example. But I can guarantee that Argyle run a more professional operation than the Impact.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 6:24 PM from IP address 65.92.185.21
...... as there is no MLS in Canada, it is entirely a mute point.
Andy Sharpe was interviewed in ISM this month, and all that was mentioned (although i could have missed something) is that the Eh-League clubs must be built-up until we have enough clubs to consider a domestic league.
Personally I am in full agreement with him. In the meantime, Canucks must go wherever they can prosper on a professional basis.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 3:58 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
The CSA saying that the A-League must be built up is just a cop-out. It allows the CSA to do nothing, and pretend that they have no stake and no ability to effect change. Of course, if the pro scene was booming, they'd then point out it was booming without them, and wasn't part of their mandate anyway. Either way, nothing is done to promote or help the A-League teams grow.
If they meant business in assisting the pro game, they'd have a plan to be working with the A-League clubs for facility improvement.
Also, the word you're looking for is "moot," not mute.
Cheers.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:40 PM from IP address 24.68.180.65
....frankly I wouldn't know how closely the CSA works with the certain Eh-League clubs, stadium issues. They certainly appear to be working in tandem with Greg Kerfoot/Whitecaps.
At this point I really don't expect him to say much more than he did, one way or the other. It can be viewed as both positive or negative.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 4:57 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
Quakes Defeat LD Alajuelense 1-0 In Champions Cup; Eliminated From Champions Cup 3-1 on Total Goals
March 25, 2004 - San Jose, Calif. (Wednesday, March 24, 2004) –The San Jose Earthquakes defeated Costa Rica’s LD Alajuelense 1-0 in the home leg of the CONCACAF Champions Cup quarterfinals, but were eliminated from the tournament by a 3-1 total goal margin. Alajuelense defeated the Earthquakes 3-0 in the first leg of the series on March 17 in Costa Rica.
The Earthquakes started the match pressuring Alajuelense just seconds after the kick-off when Richard Mulrooney sent a cross into the box from the right side and Arturo Alvarez sent a blast just wide of the post. That would set the tone of the night for the Quakes, who constantly bombarded the Alajuelense net only to be thwarted by goalkeeper Ricardo Gonzalez’s acrobatic saves and the crossbar two times.
After the Quakes attack, Alajuelense threatened in the 15th minute when Froylan Ledezma collected a loose ball in the Quakes penalty area and one-timed a hard shot over the crossbar. Earthquakes goalkeeper Pat Onstad kept the game scoreless in the 23rd minute when he dove to his left to knock Steven Bryce’s long-range rocket out of bounds.
The Quakes had three rapid scoring opportunities in the 24th minute. Ramiro Corrales carried the ball deep into the Alajuelense penalty area before crossing it into the middle of the box. The ball trickled past several defenders and the diving goalkeeper before Jamil Walker re-directed it toward the net, where it was knocked away by a defender. Quakes forward Dwayne De Rosario was able to get to the rebound and sent a shot on the unguarded net that was deflected off the goal line by another Alajuelense player. He managed to control the rebound again, but a sliding Gonzalez denied his shot.
Five minutes later the Quakes had another fine chance when De Rosario won a long ball on the Alajuelense end and dished off to a streaking Arturo Alvarez on the left. Alvarez took a few dribbles before launching a shot from about 20 yards out that soared over Alajuelense’s goalkeeper and rattled off the crossbar.
Just a minute later Alajuelense continued the flurry of activity and nearly scored on a dangerous blast by Bryce that Onstad just managed to punch over the goal and out of danger.
The Earthquakes continued pressuring Alajuelense to start the second half as Ronnie Ekelund sent a perfect through ball past the defense to an open De Rosario. De Rosario’s shot from about 15 yards away was knocked away by Alajuelense’s goalkeeper, allowing the ball to deflect to Mullan on the right side. With Gonzalez on the ground, Mullan’s shot was cleared away from danger to Walker. Walker finished the frustrating sequence by sending a shot over the goal.
The Quakes hit the crossbar for a second time of the evening on a wicked shot by Corrales. Corrales played a nice give-and-go combination with De Rosario on the left side of the field at the 18-yard line. Corrales received the pass and took one dribble into the middle of the field before powering a shot off the crossbar.
San Jose continued to threaten Alajuelense, and nearly scored again in the 73rd minute. Mulrooney sent a cross into the box from the right side that second half substitute Brian Ching headed to the corner. A diving Gonzalez knocked the ball to Mullan, who powered a shot past the prone goalkeeper only to see it blocked by Alajuelense’s Luis Marin. The ball went directly to De Rosario, whose blast was deflected by Cristian Montero.
In the 81st minute Gonzalez stymied Ekelund from close range. Ekelund received the ball after a nice build-up along the right side that saw Corrales send the ball Mullan who then found Ekelund alone in the middle of the penalty area.
The Earthquakes continued to attack and finally scored in the 90th minute on a goal from Mullan. A streaking Ching received a fine pass in the middle of the penalty area and slipped a pass to his left to an on-rushing Mullan who lofted a shot to the right of Gonzalez to give San Jose the win 1-0, but a 3-1 loss in the series on aggregate goals.
The Quakes open the MLS season on Saturday, April 3 in Washington, D.C. against Freddy Adu and D.C. United at 1:00 p.m. PT live on ABC. A week later on Saturday, April 10, the Earthquakes host the Chicago Fire in their home opener at Spartan Stadium at 1:00 p.m. PT, live on ESPN2
Notes:
-Quakes forward Landon Donovan did not dress for tonight’s match due to flu-like symptoms.
-Midfielder Ian Russell missed the game due to a left hamstring strain.
-Earthquakes head coach Dominic Kinnear earned his first official win as a head coach.
Quotes:
Head Coach Dominic Kinnear, on game: “I am very proud of the way the team played tonight and the way they responded after the performance last week. With a little bit of luck I think we could have advanced to the next round. I give credit to their team, they put up a hard fight, but the way our team approached the game tonight was excellent. I think that we are unlucky not to be advancing to the next round.”
Kinnear, on offensive opportunities: “I would be concerned if the guys didn’t respond after the performance last week, but the attitude was good. Looking ahead, if we hadn’t had chances tonight, I would have been worried, but every player on the field tried to make an impact and I was very pleased with the performance.”
Dwayne De Rosario, on offensive opportunities: “They speak for themselves. Everyone on this team had a chance to score tonight, but these things do happen. Our team played very well and everybody gave 100 percent and there is not much more that you could ask for from your fellow teammates.”
Pat Onstad, on game: “When we play with the kind of intensity we played with tonight, we give ourselves a chance to win every game we play. It was nice to get a good performance under our belts and from a defensive stand point it was nice to get a clean sheet – we haven’t had one of those all preseason so hopefully we can carry that into D.C.”
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 1:33 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
"I want them to be scared coming up here. As a nationality we're too nice. After they've treated us badly in Central America, we have to fight fire with fire. There's no need to be nice. If they're gonna treat us like ****, we'll treat them like ****."
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 1:16 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
Same old, same old. For yet another year, minor soccer in London grew at an astonishing rate as it continues to prove it is the most popular and accessible of all minor sports.
It's become a rite of spring. When the snow melts, local soccer officials announce a big increase in their registration. Last year, the league operated with 281 teams. This year that number has increased to 295.
"We thought the numbers would be down a little this year," said Tom Partalas, a director of the London and District Youth Soccer League (LDYSL). "It turns out we have about 15 more teams."
In fact, they have about 30 new teams. With Ontario doing away with OAC (Grade 13), under-19 men's and women's teams are no longer considered to be youth teams. Those players now have to play in senior men's and women's leagues. Partalas says the LDYSL had about 20 under-19 teams.
While hard numbers won't be available until players register with those teams, Partalas expects more than 5,000 will be competing in his organization alone. Numbers also show the biggest increase again is on the girls' side of the game.
"Close to 40 per cent of the league will be made up of girls' teams," said Partalas.
The continuing increase in participants in the sport speaks to more than it's affordability and equal opportunity participation. It speaks to a hopeful future for soccer. Players would drop out of the sport as they got older because there was no opportunity for advancement.
"Now, those kids see there might be a future in the sport," said Partalas. "We have a lot of players, especially girls, who have gone to the States on full scholarships. Schools down there look very favourably at boys and girls from here. There are also a number of boys who have been able to get tryouts in England, Italy, Portugal, as teams like Grimsby and Perugia find affiliations with our teams."
Partalas also alluded to the CIBC's investment in Canadian soccer. CIBC will sponsor all 13 of the Canadian Soccer Association's men's and women's national teams to the tune of $4.3 million. That's a good news indicator to young players wanting to stay in the sport. There are more than 800,000 registered soccer players in Canada.
And just as the news about increased participation in the sport has almost become old news, so is the news surrounding field use.
Over the last year, the city has improved, lighted and manicured a number of fields for soccer teams. It isn't enough since the league still has to rent a number of privately owned fields. But with the money crunch at city hall, who knows when recreation facilities will once again be a priority?
"The city has taken great strides in this," Partalas said. "They promised they would build and improve fields and they have. You have to say something good about them. But I want the taxpayer to know that we aren't getting a subsidy. We're paying for those fields. We told them, 'Build them and we will pay.' Well, we're paying. We're paying a lot."
In 2000, LDYSL paid $25,000 to $35,000 in field rentals to the city. Last year it paid about $250,000.
"When you consider what we pay compared to hockey," he said. "Our fields get maintained once a week or 10 days. They don't get everyday maintenance like hockey. We'll pay. In fact, we have to pay in blocks of 18 weeks for a field, even though in some cases a team's season is over in August."
The city budgeted about $1.9 million for improvements two years ago. But with the construction of some additional fields and the building the North London Athletic Fields, the cost of improvements has run around $3 million.
The site also has a building with six dressing room with showers, bleachers, a referee's change room, a concession stand and a garage-storage facility.
Nice, and guess who's going to pay for it?
"I want people to know that soccer people are not beggars," said Partalas.
Point taken.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 9:38 AM from IP address 24.79.45.117
The NORTH TORONTO SC is looking for a few new players to add to the existing CSL team.
Right now, the club is making major steps towards player development, so new players will be thrilled to not only play on a well coached team, but also participate in the club-wide development program.
send inquiries to info@unitedsc.com
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 9:30 AM from IP address 65.95.54.130
I'm looking to buy some goalkeeper's equipment in the Hamilton Toronto area-any suggestions for stores in my area and websites to check out.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Posted on Mar 24, 2004, 10:53 PM from IP address 24.150.43.110
North Oakville Soccer and Rugby could help you out. I have found the guys there very knowledgeable and willing to order in what you require. Their location is also very accessable for anyone between Hamilton and Toronto. Just off of Hwy 5 in Oakville, on Neyagawa Blvd. Phone number is 905-257-9000. Owners names are Eddie and Craig.
I shop there alot for our soccer team.
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 8:41 AM from IP address 24.141.3.13
The Colorado Rapids announced today the signing of three new players for the upcoming season. Defenders Adrian Cann and Gary Sullivan, who were the second and fifth round draft picks of the club respectively, will join midfielder Michael Erush on the Rapids' 2004 roster. All players are already in camp and are expected to play in the team's scrimmage against the University of Denver today at 1:00 p.m. at Pioneer Field on the campus of D.U. Details of the contracts were not released in accordance with MLS policies.
Cann is the only new signing who will not be categorized as a developmental player and will occupy one of the two full roster spots that the team had available. The Toronto, Canada native will be classified as a Transitional International, meaning that he will not count against the club's limit of three senior internationals. The four-year starter at the University of Louisville and two-time Conference USA Defensive Player of the Year has represented Canada at the Under-23 level and also holds a Slovakian passport. He was selected by the Rapids with the 16th pick of the 2004 MLS SuperDraft in January.
Posted on Mar 24, 2004, 8:06 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
Thursday, March 25, 2004 (TORONTO, ON) ˆ The Lynx secured the services of veteran defender/midfielder Joe Mattacchione for the 2004 season today. The 2002 Lynx Defender of the Year is entering his sixth season with the Club. The Mississauga resident and product of the Dixie Soccer Club and Mississauga Soccer Club is known around the A-League for his rocket right foot and intelligent defensive play and ranks in the Lynx top 10 all-time leaders in goals (7), points (17), games played (104), minutes played (7481) and shots on net (71). Although a foot injury limited him to 19 games in 2003, the graduate of Father Michael Goetz Secondary School, still managed 1 goal and 1 assist from his defensive midfield position and earned an A-League Team of the Week selection, giving him six in his career, the most of any Lynx player. Mattacchione‚s veteran leadership will be needed as the 2003 Lynx roster is filled with talented youngsters looking to take the A-League by storm. „I‚m very happy to be back with the Lynx,‰ expresses Mattacchione. „There are a lot of new faces with the Club and a very positive attitude at training. I‚ve spent a lot of time with Coach Wilde during the off-season and he has some great ideas and brings a lot of energy to the team. Personally, I want to stay healthy and help the Lynx back into the playoffs.‰
LYNX ADD MORE STEELE TO ROSTER
Hard-nosed central defender, Aaron Steele, of Burlington has also been added to the Lynx roster today. Steele, the son of new Lynx Assistant Coach, Billy Steele, is a former youth player with Norwich City in England, where his father enjoyed a stand out professional career. „Since moving to Canada in 2001, I have grown accustomed to the
Toronto area and am very excited to get the chance to begin my professional career here,‰ said the 20-year old Steele. „I hope to earn a regular spot in the first 11 this season and help the Club improve on last season and make the playoffs.‰ Steele was also a part of the Hewett School team that won the USA Cup in Minnesota and spent part of the 2003 season with the Hamilton Thunder of the CPSL. Despite his British heritage, Steele qualifies to play with as a Canadian due to his permanent residency status. „I‚ve seen a lot of Aaron over his career and I purposely waited until close to the start of the season to sign him,‰ explained Wilde. „I wanted to be sure that Aaron made the team on his own merit. I am 100% sure that Aaron has the ability and desire to succeed at this level.‰
-30-
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT:
DAVID NUTT -- MEDIA RELATIONS, TORONTO LYNX
416-251-4625, extension 30
Posted on Mar 25, 2004, 1:23 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
March 25, 2004 - Edmonton, March 25, 2004 - Today, the Edmonton Aviators announced that they have signed Christopher Lemire to their Men’s A-League team.
Edmontonian Christopher Lemire is a 5’7”, 150 lb. forward. He has previous A-League experience with the Calgary Storm and Montreal Impact. Chris has brings extensive experience having played for Alberta’s provincial teams, as well as for Canada’s U18 and U20 national teams. Chris also played for Canada’s U-20 team which recently finished fourth at the World Cup in Spain.
“Chris is a local player who brings previous A-League experience to our new team. He is a great example of the high caliber of players that Edmonton Minor Soccer and Soccer Alberta continue to produce”, said Joe Petrone- Director of Soccer Operations for the Edmonton Aviators Soccer Club.
The Edmonton Aviators are the newest addition to Edmonton’s professional sports scene. Both the Aviators Men’s and Women’s soccer teams will play in the United Soccer Leagues. Both teams will play at Commonwealth Stadium beginning in spring of 2004.
Additional information on the Aviators, including a complete list of player announcements, can be found on the Aviators website at www.aviatorssoccer.com.
Posted on Mar 26, 2004, 1:18 PM from IP address 129.100.91.60
CONCACAF teams to play international friendlies next week
24.3.04 - Six CONCACAF teams will take advantage of next week’s FIFA international date (Wednesday, 31 March) to play friendly matches.
Jamaica will greet Honduras at the National Stadium in Kingston, while the USA travels to Poland for an encounter against the host in Plock.
Mexico will meet Costa Rica in a friendly scheduled for 31 March, at the Home Depot Center in Carson, California USA, while Trinidad & Tobago takes on Egypt in Cairo.
Friendlies
31.03.2004: Plock, POLAND; (20:30)
POLAND – USA
31.03.2004: Carson, California USA; Home Depot Center (20:00)
MEXICO – COSTA RICA
31.03.2004: Kingston, JAMAICA; National Stadium
JAMAICA – HONDURAS
Rosters
COSTA RICA (v Mexico, 31.03.2004)
GK: Adrián De Lemos (CS Herediano), Ricardo González (LD Alajuelense),
Alexander Jara (Santa Barbara); DF: Pablo Chinchilla (LD Alajuelense), Junior Díaz (CS Herediano), Jervis Drummond (Deportivo Saprissa), Gilberto Martínez (Brescia/ITA), Luis Marín (LD Alajuelense), Douglas Sequeira (Deportivo Saprissa), Mauricio Wright (CS Herediano);
MD: Try Bennett (CS Herediano), Steven Bryce (LD Alajuelense), Walter Centeno (Deportivo Saprissa), Juan Bautista Esquivel (Deportivo Saprissa), Leonardo González (CS Herediano), Alonso Solís (Deportivo Saprissa), Mauricio Solís (Irapuato/MEX);
AT: Ronald Gómez (Irapuato/MEX), Froylán Ledezma (LD Alajuelense), Alvaro Saborío (Deportivo Saprissa).
TD: Steve SAMPSON
HONDURAS (v Jamaica, 31.03.2004)
GK: Donis Escobar (CD Olimpia), Hector Medina (Real CD España), Noel Valladares (CD Motagua);
DF: Victor Bernardez (CD Motagua), Maynor Figueroa (CD Olimpia), Junior Izaguirre (CD Motagua), Nery Medina (CD Motagua), Milton Palacios (CD Olimpia), Wilson Palacios (CD Olimpia), Roy Posas (CD Motagua);
MD: Elkin Gonzalez (Real CD España), Walter Lopez (CD Marathón), Elmer Marin (CD Olimpia), Emil Martinez (CD Marathón), Victor Mena (CD Motagua), José Luis Pineda (CD Olimpia);
AT: Denilson Costa (CD Marathón), Marcelo Ferreira (CD Olimpia), Francisco Ramírez (CD Platense), Wilmer Velásquez (CD Olimpia).
TD: Bora MILUTINOVIC
MEXICO (v Costa Rica, 31.03.2004)
GK: Moisés Muñoz (CA Monarcas Morelia), Oswaldo Sánchez (CD Guadalajara);
DF: Omar Briceño (Tigres UANL), Salvador Carmona (CD Guadalajara), Aarón Galindo (CDSC Cruz Azul), Mario Mendez (CD Toluca), Ricardo Osorio (CDSC Cruz Azul), Mario Pérez (CD Necaxa), Francisco Javier Rodríguez (CD Guadalajara), Fernando Salazar (Atlas CF);
MD: Rafaél García (CD Toluca), Israél López (CD Toluca), Diego Martínez (CD Necaxa), Carlos Morales (CA Monarcas Morelia), Juan Pablo Rodríguez (U.A. de Guadalajara);
AT: Adolfo Bautista (CD Guadalajara), Omar Bravo (CD Guadalajara), Jose de Jesús Mendoza (Club América), Daniel Osorno (CF Monterrey), Miguel Zepeda (CD Toluca).
TD: Ricardo LAVOLPE
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO (v Egypt, 31.03.2004)
GK: Shaka Hislop (Portsmouth/ENG), Daurance Williams (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh);
DF: Marvin Andrews (Livingston), Kerry Baptiste (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh), Anton Pierre, Brent Sancho (Dundee);
MD: Carlos Edwards (Wrexham), Angus Eve (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh), Kerwyn Jemmot, Derek King, Stokely Mason, Brent Rahim (Falkirk/ENG), Anthony Rougier, Hector Sam (Wrexham), Conrad Smith;
AT: Stern John (Birmingham City/ENG), Cornell Glen (CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh).
TD: Bertille ST. CLAIR
USA (v. Poland, 31.03.2004)
GK: Brad Friedel (Blackburn Rovers/ENG), Jonny Walker (NY/NJ MetroStars);
DF: Gregg Berhalter (Energie Cottbus/GER), Carlos Bocanegra (Fulham FC/ENG), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96/GER), Cory Gibbs (Dallas Burn), Pablo Mastroeni (Colorado Rapids);
MD: Chris Armas (Chicago Fire), DaMarcus Beasley (Chicago Fire), Bobby Convey (D.C. United), Kyle Martino (Columbus Crew), Clint Mathis (Hannover 96/GER), Claudio Reyna (Manchester City/ENG), Kerry Zavagnin (Kansas City Wizards);
AT: Conor Casey (Karlsruher/GER), Landon Donovan (San Jose Earthquakes), Brian McBride (Fulham FC/ENG), Josh Wolff (Kansas City Wizards).
TD: Bruce ARENA
Posted on Mar 24, 2004, 8:03 PM from IP address 24.79.45.117
Bristol City have been breathing down the necks of QPR for that second promotion spot. Hume didn't score but Tranmere still beat Bristol City, 1-0. QPR maintain a 2 point edge.
Posted on Mar 24, 2004, 7:41 PM from IP address 24.67.166.55
WHITECAPS CELEBRATE 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF SOCCER BOWL
…CELTIC, CHELSEA TICKETS AVAILABLE TO SEASON TICKET HOLDER’S BEFORE PUBLIC ON-SALE MARCH 30TH
Vancouver, BC – The Whitecaps FC announced the 25th anniversary celebration of its 1979 NASL Soccer Bowl Championship today. This season, the Whitecaps will commemorate the historical achievement with events honoring team alumni and fans alike. “A lot of Whitecaps fans remember our run to the Soccer Bowl in 1979. We want to take them back to that year and at the same time educate a new era of soccer fans by celebrating the anniversary of the event,” says Director of Soccer Operations Bob Lenarduzzi.
On September 8, 1979, the Whitecaps played the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the N.A.S.L. Championship, defeating them by a score of 2-1. The Whitecaps returned home to a parade of 100,000 fans on Robson Street with the Championship Cup in tow. It was a monumental achievement for the club, the city of Vancouver and BC soccer fans.
The road to the Soccer Bowl saw the Whitecaps match up against the Dallas Tornado, Los Angeles Aztecs and New York Cosmos before reaching the Championship game. Vancouver’s stiffest post-season opposition that year came against the heavily favoured Cosmos. The series was decided in a tie breaking game that went into extra time, and finally a shootout to determine a winner.
In honour of the event and the accomplishment of these Vancouver sports legends, the Whitecaps have invited alumni of the 1979 team to participate in ceremonial kick-offs throughout the season. Carl Valentine will make the first kick-off of the season at the Men’s home opener on April 30th.
To commemorate this great event the Whitecaps and Umbro are proud to announce the design of new home and away uniforms featuring contemporary updates to the classic retro-style jersey worn during the Soccer Bowl winning season. Umbro has developed unique features for the new jerseys that include a silver star over the Whitecaps logo, signifying the 25th anniversary of the Soccer Bowl win and a distinctive red maple leaf on each sleeve. The Whitecaps and Umbro will be launching the new jerseys as part of an exclusive merchandising collection that also features a new Whitecaps Women’s jersey. The collection will be available in stores and on-site at Swangard on opening night.
In celebration of the silver anniversary of Soccer Bowl ’79, and through the generous support of ChampionsWorld, the Whitecaps are also making available an exclusive ticket offer to BC soccer fans. The 2004 ChampionsWorld Series returns to North America and Whitecaps ticket holder’s have the opportunity to watch the Series opener kick-off in Seattle when Celtic FC of the Scottish Premier League match up against Chelsea of the English Premier League on July 24th at Seahawks Stadium.
“The response from soccer fans on the West Coast made the decision to host another international friendly at Seahawks Stadium an easy one,” says ChampionsWorld CEO Charlie Stillitano. “We are proud to invite the world’s top teams to play here because the fans show such strong support and knowledge of the game.” Last year the Whitecaps supported a contingent of 3,000 fans to witness Manchester United defeat Celtic FC at Seahawks Stadium. Tickets for this game are available now for Whitecaps Season Ticket Holder’s only. Individual tickets will go on sale to the public Tuesday, March 30th.
In order to accommodate the ChampionsWorld game on July 24th, the Whitecaps have changed the date of their Men’s and Women’s doubleheader to avoid scheduling conflicts. New dates have been tentatively set at July 23rd for the Men’s game and July 26th for the Women.
"Since the 1979 Championship game, soccer has experienced many ups and downs but the Whitecaps organization is again on the rise. We’re confident that both our Men’s and Women’s teams will contend for A-League and W-League titles this season,” says Bob Lenarduzzi. With a highly structured youth development program, the Whitecaps have also created a path for aspiring young players to grow, ensuring a bright future for the club and soccer in British Columbia.
Ticket Information:
To be a part of the anniversary season, fans can purchase season tickets starting at just $99 for youth and seniors, and $149 for adults. For information on Whitecaps ticket packages call (604) 669-WAVE (9283) or visit whitecapsfc.com.
Posted on Mar 24, 2004, 3:27 PM from IP address 129.100.91.78
