Gentlepeople,

I am building the new DML SDKFZ 251/17 C and wanted to paint it in a whitewash (wanna try the "hairspray"technique).

It appears that all of these vehicles went to HG. Comments?

Doing a small amount of research on the net I now have a question about the approriateness of a whitewash. It appears that HG spent the Winter 42/43 in Sicily. Not much of a chance for whitewash there.

The Winter of 44/45 seems to have been spent farther North but I am not really clear where they were.

Can anyone fill me in on my gaps?

Could parts of the unit have been in Sicily in 42/43 and some somewhere cold(I would prefer to do whitewash over grey)?

Dave


Thanks

Dave Schemel

Improving my modeling one mistake at a time.

www.justplanestuff.net

Dave, Sorry, those parts of HG not in Italy/Sicily were in Tunisia. HG was in East Prussia in the winter 44/45. Alan

Hallo, David,

after fighting at Anzio and Nettuno, these parts of HG, who came from Holland for example, went to Gustav-Line in North Italy then to Warschau (but not taking part in fighting the rebellion) and fought in Ostpreußen autumn and winter 44/45. Taking heavy losses HG was established anew in Schlesien in early 45.

Hope it helps.

Harald

if im not mistaken, there were two "parts" to HG division. HG 2 was in east prussia in 44/45, I just did a 1/35 jagdpanzer L/48 in their markings. Go to feldgrau.com to find more info.

Perry

It appears that there were a total of 10 SdKfz 251 C:s converted for the LW. Of these all had the same new side walls, but two where used as command vehicles with frame antennas with the remaining eight being equipped with the 2cm Flak gun. The basic organization seems to have been two troops with 1x command and 3x gun HT:s. The remaining two gun equipped HT:s must have been kept as a reserve, or at Battery HQ.

All 10 were issued to the HG and nowhere else. First they served as the 10 Batterie in the Flak-Rgt. The commanding officer of this unit was an Oberleutnant Rossmann, KC. He had earlier commanded the 16 Batterie (equipped with SdKfz 10/4) of Rgt GG during the invasion of the SU. I am not sure when this took place but the Brigade HG was formed by the 21st of July, 1942, and probably this was when this 10 Batterie was organised. The reforming took place in Bretagne.

These were painted Dunkelgrau inside and out. Balkenkreuzen were seen on both of the sides, the rear hatch and the bonnet. Registration plates only at the rear, and no they were not in sequence. The HG clock sign was on the LHS “hump” at the bonnet side, and the lower corner of the LHS rear door. Each HT also carried a number under the side visor, with one command HT starting with “1” (no picture of the second, but it might have been “4”).

The next stop is that it was decided to form a Division HG. This started in November 1942. Included in this organistion was a PzRgt with two battalions. The unit formation also took place in France, and during this time the /17 was moved to the 9 Kompanie PzRgt HG. About the same time it was decided to move the HG to Sicily for shipment to Tunisa.

Here is where the real problems start. There is an organistion chart in Otte’s “Die wiessen Spiegel” that shows the HG as it was probably meant to be in Tunisia*. The problems are that there is no date and it is very badly reproduced. Still it is possible to see nine SdKfz 251/17:s with the I/PzRgt HG. Other sub-units include the Stabs-Kompanie with 2x Pz III (?) and 8x Pz IV, as well as a Kompanie with 9x 75mm SP guns.

What photos I have seen of the /17 from this time shows them in plain Sandbraun. The only markings visible in these photos are the Balkenkreuzen on the sides. No sign of any numbers, or the clock sign at the “hump”.

After the Tunisia debacle this version of /17 seems to vanish. Either they were destroyed with the DAK, or sunk en-route. Under all circumstance none should every have been seen in whitewash.

It is also misleading to say that HG troops could only be seen in either Italy/Sicily, or in Tunisia, at this time. They had a rather large training and replacement unit based in Utrecht, Amersfort and Hilversum, the Netherlands. There were also guard units in Berlin and at Karinhall, as well as the Furher-Flak-Abt and a special railway Flak unit.

Otherwise it is true that a Fallschirm-Panzer-Korps HG was formed in October 1944. The main parts were the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 HG, Fallschirm-Panzergrenadiere-Division 2 HG, strong Korpstruppen units and a very large replacement and training organization. For what it is worth the HG 2 did not have any Pz.Jager unit, rather a StuG-Abt.

Best regards,

Henrik


* As a side note this diagram shows 6x 75mm Pak 40 inside I/JgRgt HG, which was the former para regiment.

Excellent post Henrik.

It's this kind of info that made ML great in the past. Thank you for taking the time to answer David's question so thoroughly.

Regards,
Anthony.