Mystery half-track identify...May 30 2011 at 5:29 PM
|Brano (Login BranoJuhasz)|
from IP address 188.8.131.52
What is this ? My idea...modification KMm7 - KMm10 (8-ton half-track).
|May 30 2011, 6:11 PM |
believe it was a bodge-up of a damaged KM-11 by people at Aberdeen Proving Ground postwar ? The people in the photo are in US service dress.
They don't look US to me
|May 30 2011, 8:52 PM |
The cavalry boots and general appearance are pre-war if US--I'd say it's somewhere in (central?) Europe for sure, although the third guy from the left definitely looks like a german soldier.
|This message has been edited by el-rancho-decomposo from IP address 184.108.40.206 on May 30, 2011 8:55 PM|
|Joseph R. Zrodlowski|
Re: They don't look US to me
|May 31 2011, 12:08 AM |
I have to agree with you, Tom. The fourth guy from the left is wearing what looks like a pre-War Cavalry Officer's Service Uniform:
I know that this is an enlisted uniform. Just imagine that the shirt that the dummy is wearing is white and you'll get the idea.
he's not the only one
|May 31 2011, 1:17 AM |
this looked pre-war
and like you said, legging not straight
Aren't they Germans?
|May 31 2011, 3:30 AM |
The chap 3rd from the left seems to have an eagle in the usual place on his tunic.
Maybe the others are Rumanians or Turks?
|This message has been edited by Hon.JohnByng from IP address 220.127.116.11 on May 31, 2011 3:32 AM|
Re: Aren't they Germans?
|May 31 2011, 4:11 AM |
I have asked this same question before. The vehicle is German, I believe the picture comes from a series taken on the weapons testing grounds Kummersdorf. The gun appears to me to be the 21cm Kanone 38which was produced between 1940 and 1943. Alan
|May 31 2011, 4:36 AM |
Aside German soldier is not Russian soldiers ???
|May 31 2011, 5:33 AM |
Evidently a one-off experiment.
This photo first appeared in a copy of Waffen Revue No 119, page 159. It was taken in 1940 at Meppen. Karl Pawlas was an extremely knowledgeable author and researcher and even HE was unable to identify the halftrack. I thimk it's likely to remain a mystery.
Variation of KMZ 85 ?
|May 31 2011, 11:15 AM |
|Heiner F. Duske|
|May 31 2011, 4:14 PM |
You are right, John. During my last visit with Mr. Karl Pawlas, I have asked him the same question and we was totally unaware of this strange halftrack. But he confirmed, that it looked of German design as the artillery piece does.
Heiner F. Duske, Nuts & Bolts Team
|June 2 2011, 4:10 AM |
The figure to the right of the gun looks like General Patton
A wild guess...
|June 2 2011, 8:56 AM |
O.K. Let's use some logics.
The gun in the background is a 21 cm Kanone 38. This was a really large gun! So I don't think the shown Halftrack vehicle has something to do with the 8ton halftrack series. This would be much smaller compared to the K 38.
The shown vehicle was really large, too. So there are two logical possibilities. The 12ton and the 18ton halftrack series.
In my opinion we can exclude the 12ton series because the developments of Daimler Benz are well known.
So, only the 18ton series remain. There are still some mysteries about the early developments of the 18ton series. We know how the Famo F2 and F3 looked like. But how looked the Famo FM gr 1? I don't know any photo of this type. And was it the first testing model made by Famo?
What we know is that the development was started in 1935. At first, the vehicle should tow heavies artillery guns. And that is what we see on the photo. A vehicle with a "heaviest" artillery gun. Another fact is that the vehicle has several crew benches. This was typical for half track vehicles intended to tow artilery guns. Some of the Famo F2 had benches, too. Later, the benches were dropped and replaced by a stell platform.
All in all, I think we see either a Famo FM gr 1 or an earlyer testing model of the Famo 18ton half track development. But there is of course no definite proof for my theory, yet.
Re: A wild guess...
|June 2 2011, 3:55 PM |
But tracks chassis is real shorted (correspondent shorted Sd.Kfz.7) . And towing 21cm gun ? Look on the forward of the gun. I see second halftrack. This mystery halftack needn´t you towing. Or towing to together both halfracks.
Re: A wild guess...
|June 2 2011, 4:59 PM |
I said the 21cm Kanone 38 was a large gun. Therefore, it was transported in two loads. The gun carriage and the barrel. Together, these two loads had a total weight of about 35 tons! Much to heavy for one half track vehicle.
On the photo, no one of the two half track vehicles is towing the gun. What we seeing is the fitting of the gun barrel to the gun carriage. The mystery half-track vehicle is supporting this operation with its winch.
Based on the weight of the gun, Sd. kfz. 7 makes really no sense. Many early German half-track vehicles had much shorter running gears than the later production models. This was not a speciality of the Sd. Kfz. 7. If the shown vehicle is the Famo FM gr 1, I'm nut sure. It could also be an early prototype. In many cases, special prototypes were made in single exemplars to test if the anticipated performance characteristics are technically reachable. Think of that we are talking aboud mid 1930's technologie! No one bevore had ever made a half-track vehicle in this size and with such a towing capacity.
Re: A wild guess...
|March 8 2012, 8:11 AM |
While you were all spending time trying to prove there were Americans in thei picture did you not notice the German ?