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Soldiers' colloquial terms for rare AFV?

May 31 2017 at 9:21 AM
roy chow  (Login roy_chow)
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from IP address 143.85.29.18

The 10.5cm leFH (sf) auf Geschutzwagen H39(f) was a battlefield rarity. It never got a "nickname" that I'm aware of. What might think the troops operating it (21PD) call it? "Geschutzwagen"? "G-W (or GAY-VAY)"?

I have the Heimdal book on the 21PD and don't recall any discussion about this. Can anyone chime in with opinions?

Roy Chow
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AuthorReply
Andrew deeley
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Re: Soldiers' colloquial terms for rare AFV?

May 31 2017, 10:54 AM 

Hi
Tank, vechicle, gun etc.

I can't think of an army where the troops call an item by its official name and only rarely a nickname in day to day use. A British infantryman didn't say I'm picking up my FN Self loading rifle he'd just say rifle.

You don't say I'm going to drive my Ford Escort Mk2 or my Mercedes 330 SL or my Renault Traffic LWB 2.5 diesel you just say car or van.

Regards
Andrew


 
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Graeme Wear
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Nicknames

May 31 2017, 3:20 PM 

I'm not sure I agree with either example you gave there...we used to call our rifles 'SLR's', not rifles...and if I'm going out in my car (it's a Abarth) the colloquial term for it, at least in the Abarth community, would be "I'm off out in the handbag"! Non-Abarth owners are of course not allowed to call our cars handbags!

SMG's were...SMG's but GPMG's were gimpies; tanks were usually 'panzers' (although please don't ever call a Challenger a Chally as I never ever heard that term!!)...and of course there is the great story about the Army, after the Falklands War, calling Falkland islanders 'stills'

In my experience the Army would develop its own slang based upon random ideas and/or foreign languages - everything in BAOR was alles uber the platz, but was also buckshee, but sometimes you had to ask wasstie cosstie, especially if you were doing your dhobi...

And so on!

Graeme
Even if you are one in a million like your mum told you, that means there are 7500 people just like you in the world

 
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Andrew deeley
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My point

May 31 2017, 5:26 PM 

Hi Graham
I heard them called Stupid Long Rifles but I have heard infrantry call them rifles too.

The point I was making is you don't say ' I'm going get my Fabrique Nationale Self Loading Rifle 7.62mm from the armoury ' or ' pass the Carl Gustav Anti Tank 84mm recoilless rifle please' ( Charlie G ). I believe the current slang now is The general for the Gimpie

Soldiers rarely use the official name for a piece of equipment just like civilians who don't say my ' Toshiba 60 inch flat screen smart television has broken' we just say TV or tele.

Personally I don't have a car I drive a Land Rover ! ­čśÇ

Regards
Andrew






 
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Neil Lyall
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Re: Nicknames

June 1 2017, 3:04 AM 

Hello

re SLR.

In my time and location it was pronounced "Eselar" or "Slur".

"Rifle" Or "Bang Stick" also was used.

Whichever was used there was never any doubt that it was SLR that was being referred to.

cheers
Neil

 
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Dick Taylor
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Don't agree with one point

June 1 2017, 4:11 AM 

We DID call our Challengers Challys; it goes to show that one's own experience is not universal! Personally I hated the blokes referring to the tanks as Wagons, but it still went on!

We also called the SMG the small metal gun, and Boots DMS, which stood for Direct Moulded Sole, were known as Dem's My Shoes...znd a more recent one is the arms storeman being referred to as the Gun Librarian!

DT


    
This message has been edited by 3RTR from IP address 194.158.44.14 on Jun 1, 2017 4:13 AM


 
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Robert Lockie
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Ah yes, I always loved the story behind 'stills'

June 1 2017, 9:28 AM 

Even if the reference would be very obscure for non-British people (or those who avoid soap operas).

Some organisations appear to have their own distinct sense of humour.
Rob
There's nothing cushy about life in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps

 
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Patrice DEBUCQUOY
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10.5cm leFH (sf) auf Geschutzwagen H39(f)

May 31 2017, 12:47 PM 

Hi Roy,

Not a direct answer but several clues :
The official denomination was "10.5cm le.F.H. 16 und 18/40 (Sf) auf Gesch├╝tzwagen 39 H (f)" , simplified on the organigram as "le.F.H. 16 u. 18 Ho" but called "Panzer-Gesch├╝tz 10.5cm (LFH 18)" by Major Becker.
I don't think the troops gave them a nickname, perhaps they called them simply by their caliber ?

Note : the 7.5cm version was named by Becker as "Sturm-Panzer 7.5cm (Pak 40)" , but the veteran Herbert HANISCH (2./Sturmgesch├╝tz-Abt 200) called these 7.5cm vehicles as "Sturmgesch├╝tze" [source Heimdal/39-45 magazine].

Cheers,
Patrice.

 
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John Morrison
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My recollection

May 31 2017, 12:55 PM 

When I was in the mob (V long time ago),my FN2 SLR was either "rifle" or "SLR". The Sterling was an smg and anything that fired a rocket propelled missile was a bazooka. The Bren gun was still a Bren (nice short name) or occasionally an LMG. So I think the German crews would simply have referred to "unser panzer".

 
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J├Ârg Luther
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Sureley nothing complicated

May 31 2017, 1:34 PM 

I doubt they called it Gesch├╝tzwagen, that's bureaucratic slang. Like "Personenkraftwagen" (Pkw) for an "Auto" (car). I'd guess they called it something like "Panzerhaubitze Hotchkiss", "Panzerhaubitze H35" or simply "Lfh18 auf Hotchkiss".

 
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Hilary Louis Doyle
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unser Gesch├╝tzwagen

May 31 2017, 2:43 PM 

There are many original experience reports written by German Officers in various Archives. While searching for information that might be added to the history we publish in Panzer Tracts one is often frustrated by the general description of vehicles used. Unless we had other evidence of the inventory of the unit the reports while interesting could not be used. The example that Andrew gave of how we refer to our ÔÇťCarÔÇŁ or JohnÔÇÖs ÔÇťunser PanzerÔÇŁ are typical. I remember one report from a unit that we knew was equipped with Sd.Kfz.250 where the Officer kept referring to ÔÇťunser WagenÔÇŁ

My guess is that the guys using a ÔÇť10.5cm le.F.H. 16 und 18/40 (Sf) auf Gesch├╝tzwagen 39 H (f)" would simply refer to it as ÔÇťunser Gesch├╝tzwagenÔÇŁ they knew what type of gun was in the vehicle and did not care about the chassis as long as it kept running.

Hilary

 
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Claus Bonnesen
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Re: Soldiers' colloquial terms for rare AFV?

May 31 2017, 2:35 PM 

As they were gunners, I would guess that they simply called it "gun", i.e. Gesch├╝tz. I doubt they would've had any need to refer to it by caliber, make of chassis or the full "Gesch├╝tzwagen". Alternatively, the probably called it "vehicle", i.e. Fahrzeug.

Reports from operators of Sturmgesch├╝tze and Jagdpanzer seems to have used those names, at least when making their after-action reports.

 
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Sam Wren
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Re: Soldiers' colloquial terms for rare AFV?

May 31 2017, 10:10 PM 

In a statement for a War Crimes trial, Hauptmann M├Âlter, CO of 1./Pio.Bn. 716 located at Herouvillette mentions receiving on D-Day "ein Sturmgesch├╝tz" which could only conceivably have belonged to StuG-Abt. 200. A POW of StuG-Abt 200 stated that the "l.F.H. 16 on Hotchkiss chassis...was wrongly classed as an assault gun (Stu G.). It should have been called an S.P. gun." (this latter quote was English-only so the exact words used by the POW are unknown). Kortenhaus in the German version of the History of 21.PD refers to them as "Sturmgesch├╝tze".

Sam Wren
Abilene, TX

"My cat may be able to telepathically control my mind, but he will never be able to play the piano." - unknown

 
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Joseph R. Zrodlowski
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My old boss

June 1 2017, 9:18 AM 

Kurt Marscheider, was a WWII vet from the other side of the fence. Whenever he was describing something odd or he hadn't seen before, he called it a "Dings da". Therefore, the 10.5cm leFH (sf) auf Geschutzwagen H39(f) shall be referred to, in perpetuity, as "Dings Da". Sounds better than any other stupid term we could contrive.


 
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Sam Wren
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"that thing" works for me

June 4 2017, 6:33 AM 

n.t.
Sam Wren
Abilene, TX

"My cat may be able to telepathically control my mind, but he will never be able to play the piano." - unknown

 
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Robert Kru
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Think simple

June 2 2017, 7:05 AM 

They are from artillery and had always to take care of their "Gesch├╝tz A(nton)-F(ritz)Why they should change their habit? Even in Stug units you can read " An die Gesch├╝tze"for entering up.

I would limit it to Pak, Flak, M├Ârser and Gesch├╝tz for the rest of guns inc. SPG.
Regards from Vienna
Robert
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George Bradford
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A Most Interesting discussion ...

June 2 2017, 11:29 AM 

Hi All;

Well, I must say, that was one of the most interesting discussions I have followed for a long time.

GB

 
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Andrew deeley
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Re: A Most Interesting discussion ...

June 2 2017, 4:16 PM 

Hi George
Glad you enjoyed it.

For me I think the issue is most modellers forget that armies are made up of humans . Hence they behave like humans. Also even in Professional armies of today, being in the army is just a job. Most soldiers 99.9% are not military enthusiasts and have only slightly more interest in their job than a person on the assembly track at a Ford factory or a shelf stacker in a super market.

They are just not looking at things like paint colours ,equipment etc etc through an enthusiasts eyes but through the eyes of some doing a job. Ask most people what the colour of their factory floors and wall area or items of equipment and they would look at you blank.

And I mean no disrespect or disservice to any current or past service person.

Regards
Andrew

 
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Akira Takiguchi
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Alfred Becker's album

June 3 2017, 10:04 AM 

Here's the photo from the album of the inventor.

[linked image]

Regarding how they called their "friends", I have encountered:

Unser Wagen,
Unser Panzer,
Unser Gesch├╝tz ( Sturmgesch├╝tz ) and
Unser J├Ąger ( in case of Panzerj├Ąger, like Hornisse )

 
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Andrew Tomlinson
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And is there a decent / accurate kit of it, please? Bronco??

June 7 2017, 3:54 AM 

Hi
Always an appealing conversion to model.

Cheers
Andrew

 
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