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Tiger II 008 Befehlspanzer or not

June 9 2017 at 7:09 PM
David Coyne  (Login dcoyne333)
Missing-Lynx members
from IP address 79.97.15.45

I was looking for a interesting subject to model as a Tiger II Befehlspanzer.
So far i have four candidates that there are known photos of but a fifth possible one is 008 of the Pz Abt 501 in the Ardennes.
I have read through threads on this site and others that claim 008 was a command vehicle with a star antenna on the rear. I'v looked at the footage of this company travelling through a Belgium town and there is just a flash of an antenna on the rear but when you look at the other photos of the Tank things you would expect to see on a command vehicle are missing such as the mountings on the RHR hull for the large mast antenna, the pot for the engine deck antenna and the antenna base on the roof.
Anybody have any further info on why 008 is suppossed to be a command vehicle?

Maybe a star antenna shown here but you cant see it in the next frame. Might just be something in the background as well.

photo Copyoftigerspanthersdisc6009.jpg
photo Copyoftigerspanthersdisc6008.jpg

No sign of all the usual bits you would expect to see in this photo such as the rear engine antenna pot, the roof antenna mount and the RHR hull side mast mountings.

photo 008wreck.jpg

This is a really blurred photo but again i can't see any sign of fittings that you would expect to see. There is a chance that the rear mounted antenna tube is there but i can't really be sure.
Any thoughts or better photos?
photo tigerspanthersdisc6003.jpg

 
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AuthorReply
Viktor Ukhov
(Login ViktorUkhov)
Missing-Lynx members
188.43.31.142

Yes

June 10 2017, 1:45 AM 


 
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David Coyne
(Login dcoyne333)
Missing-Lynx members
79.97.15.45

Excellent Viktor

June 10 2017, 11:04 AM 

Thats just the photo i was looking for Viktor. I had a very dark copy of it and couldn't make out the detail.
Ok the antenna storage tube is there but now the question remains where are the rest of the antenna mountings. We should be able to see the pot on the rear deck and the brackets for the mast on the rear hull side.
It is just possible it wasn't a true Befehlswagen and had just borrowed the antenna tube from something else.

Look how obvious the fittings are on the Kubinka vehicle and compare that to what we see on 008.

photo befehlsTII_a.jpg

 
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David Nickels
(Login djnick66)
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65.33.79.222

Tough call

June 10 2017, 1:12 PM 

I still think it is NOT a command tank for the obvious reasons. You would definitely see the hull fittings

 
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Viktor Ukhov
(Login ViktorUkhov)
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188.43.31.142

Re: Excellent Viktor

June 11 2017, 9:14 AM 

Dave, this is most probably second command tak which was completed by Henschel. Are you sure that all sd.kfz 267 has this bracket?
I can't remember many Bef.Tigers B photos, but for example photo from AFV album (for discuss)

503

Regards

Viktor

 
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David Coyne
(Login dcoyne333)
Missing-Lynx members
79.97.15.45

This is interesting Viktor

June 11 2017, 11:04 AM 

I'm working from the assumption that Tiger IIs were out fitted with the same mountings as the Tiger I. But now that is thrown into doubt since your photo shows no side mountings on what is obviously a Befehlswagen. Add to that the lack of a mounting on Tiger II 008 and it becomes clear that all command Tiger IIs didn't have this feature. The only one that we can see it on is the captured Kublinka Tiger II No 502 a photo of which i posted above.
So far i can only find photos of 5 vehicles that were Befehlswagens. See my link below for photos of the 4 i had before 008 was identified in this thread.
Tiger II turret number 555 of the Pz Abt 502 may be the exception in this list as there is very little evidence to support the claim apart from the one photo and some colour plates which may be weak evidence to support the claim.

http://www.track-link.com/forums/site_blogs/31797

Dave.

 
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Tom Cockle
(Login atcockle)
MODERATORS ONLY - Axis WWII
162.245.213.24

Re: Excellent Viktor

June 15 2017, 5:36 PM 

David,

I think the armored pot is visible in Viktor's photo, don't you?

Regards,

Tom

 
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David Coyne
(Login dcoyne333)
Missing-Lynx members
79.97.15.45

I didn't see it at first Tom

June 16 2017, 5:57 AM 

Funny how you can look at something and completly miss what your looking for. I think i see the pot now in the rear photo of 008 but i was thinking it was part of dark panel on the building in the background. Its a funny shape at an odd angle that matches the dark panel on the building better than it does the Tank. Maybe that is the pot though?
Thanks for making me look again Tom.

Dave.

photo pot.jpg


    
This message has been edited by dcoyne333 from IP address 79.97.15.45 on Jun 16, 2017 6:16 AM


 
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Viktor Ukhov
(Login ViktorUkhov)
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213.138.84.146

008

June 16 2017, 12:55 PM 

Dave, U need to check Duel in the Mist 3.

008

Regards

Viktor

 
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Per Sonnervik
(Login pansarsoldat)
Missing-Lynx members
90.230.36.96

Tiger II 008

June 11 2017, 7:38 AM 

Guys,

Good quality photos of the 008 can be found on page 88 and 89 in Duel In The Mist No.3 book. Unfortunately I can´t say for certain there is a antenna foot Nr. 1 on the roof but it sure looks like it. It does have the armoured pot on the engine deck but not the bracket for the antenna extension rods. So except for the mentioned bracket all points to a command vehicle.

/Per

 
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Per Sonnervik
(Login pansarsoldat)
Missing-Lynx members
90.230.36.96

Oh, I forgot....

June 11 2017, 11:05 AM 

...that the bracket for the extension rods was deleted during autumn 1944. Early command versions with the three rods 1,25 m (stowed inside behind the driver) had this bracket, see Kubinka vehicle. Later version with the six "Verlängerungstab" 0,7 m and the "Stützkorb für Antennenfuss" (see Panzer tracts No.5-3) didn´t need this bracket as these extension rods were mounted directly on the antenna with the support of the "Stützkorb". One can safely say that 008 is a command version.

/Per

 
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David Coyne
(Login dcoyne333)
Missing-Lynx members
79.97.15.45

Thanks Per

June 11 2017, 11:41 AM 

I don't have Panzer tracts so thanks for that information. All of the pieces are falling into place now.

Dave.

 
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