Any ideas what this britsh half track is? Appears to have the armour plate extended about 18" upward all round!

It has a lot of similarities to some of the ambulance photos I have here, the jury rigged rack you can see in the open rear door looks like the stretcher racks I've seen, as do the position of the loops/straps on the side of the exterior for holding spare stretchers.

Notice the tilt hoops for the canvas tilt on top of the extended sides, which allow standing completely upright to give aid to a patient inside during foul weather.

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Paul:
Rule #1: Use your full name when posting

All cropped from the originals.

IWM 8680

Green Howards mopping up near Tracy Bocage, 4 August



IWM 8681 or B8682





and the 'censored' version.




The same scene was filmed and is in
A70 113-23

A section of riflemen from the 6th Battalion the Green Howards advance cautiously past a derelict 1st Rifle Brigade M5 half-track in their search for snipers and stragglers in the countryside around Tracy-Bocage

I am probably wrong but isn't it just a wading extension that hasn't been removed?

I think there's some sort of sealant over the join between original hull and extension which is supported by rods including those visible on the back door. You saw carriers with similar extensions

Um, lol? I truly hope you are being facetious.

If that was a 'wading extension' it would put the driver and crew completely underwater by like 18 inches or more...

Wading trunks were designed to allow engines to intake and exhaust air while fording deep water, not turn vehicles in submersibles. Are you proposing this thing was used a submarine?

:/



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No it was not facetious

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=B+5040

try a bit of research before posting....

Err, Okay? But just what exactly does an image of a Churchill and a Bren carrier have to do with any of this half track stuff?

:/

...and as for your "try a bit of researching comment", I would suggest good sir, you heed your own advice?


This, is how half tracks forge deep water.



[IMG][/IMG]




Edit:

The technical manual bit-


[IMG][/IMG]



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You want me to spell it out??

Look at the sides of the carrier. When landing, there were temporary sheet metal extensions all round the open hull to extend the height of the compartment sides. The extensions are held in place by the steel rods you can see down the side of the carrier. The joins were sealed. This raised the sides of the carrier to allow it to drive through the surf from a further distance out without being swamped. Presumably this was done because on the sloping beach the transport ship could not get close enough to the shoreline to safely disgorge a carrier without the extensions.

The extensions on the side and back are still in place, but now that the carrier has left the beach, the driver has removed the extension in front of his face so that he can see to drive. Before, the vehicle would have been directed by another member of the crew. In recent years a carrier with the wading extensions still in place was found in a French scrapyard. Later carriers were fitted with the three fixings on each hull side to take the rods as a matter of course

My suggestion was simply that the sides of the half track might have been extended in the same way to heighten the sides and avoid any swamping of the vehicle. Once on land the driver would have just opened his armoured shutter over the windscreen and dropped down the top half of the door, which would have been sealed with the Bostik waterproofing compound. This is a British vehicle and may have been waterproofed differently to U S Army vehicles

I understand how the carrier works Simon...

what I don't understand is how anyone would think this is a similar design. The water would rush in long before you ever got that deep, no matter how well you tried to water proof it. Comparing a little tub of a carrier to a Half track is like comparing apples to orangutans. And why would you need to extend the sides of a vehicle which (unlike the carrier) already sits well above the heads of the crew? Why not water proof whats already there unless you plan on going deeper?


...unfortunately the carrier photo/idea/function it has no bearing on this half track photo.


Or these:

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]



It's either an ambulance (like I mentioned previously) or it's a command half track.

/end





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US 4th AD 1944.
Taken from page 45 of the Tankograd TM on the M2 Car to the M5 Half Tracks.



IWM B9292 Flers August 16th 1944





IWM B9293 Flers August 16th 1944

In the B9293 IWM pic is that a Digo in front of the half-track?

Tom

I have seen similar superstructure additions in some British engineering units and the ones that Michael posted in Flers belong to one of the Field Sqns, RE of the 3rd British Infantry Division.

Sam Wren
Abilene, TX

"My cat may be able to telepathically control my mind, but he will never be able to play the piano." - unknown

I'm not sure what you mean by 'or' Sam, I'm sure all these units might have use for a command vehicle.

Unless I've misunderstood your post, and your talking of a specific engineer use for a vehicle of this type?

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The exact date of the Flers photograph was not known to me. I had a choice from 15th to 17th of August and 'assumed' it was the same as the day 11th AD paraded through the town-the 17th. When I checked with the film database this appeared:

A70 126-1 Production Date: 16-08-1944
During their advance eastwards along the N24 bis, the 3rd Reconnaissance Regiment and a detachment from the 17th Field Company RE. liberate the towns of Tinchebray and Flers........................................a despatch motorcyclist rides into Flers. A foot patrol accompanied by a scout car picks its way cautiously along the deserted Rue de la Banque where later the sapper detachment mixes with the remaining inhabitants and sets about searching for mines further down the street.



Both 3rd Recce Regiment RAC and 17th Field Company RE were (as Sam said) part of Third Infantry Division.



I have corrected the date on the earlier photos.


Whilst we are on the subject the half track below surely can not be supporting jerry cans(?) on just its canvas tilt?

IWM 5258 cropped. June 6th

Michael,
Great shot. Not to mention the motorcycle mounted high on the rear of their gypsy caravan.

Jim Guld

The one to which I was referring was intended to carry engineer stores, including explosives.

Sam Wren
Abilene, TX

"My cat may be able to telepathically control my mind, but he will never be able to play the piano." - unknown

Any chance on sharing where this information comes from?

IE: link, book, documents etc.

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First, let's look at the crop of IWM B-9293 posted by Michael above:


The members of engineering units of the 3rd (Br.) Inf Division - or at least the Field Companies, RE - wore a flash consisting of the serial numbers corresponding to their company in white on the cobalt blue background of their AOS (engineers) below the blue/red Arm-of-Service strip. The soldier standing by the Universal Carrier clearly sports the "51" flash consistent with the 17th Fld Coy, RE. While the AOS of the halftrack is partially obscured in this photo (only the "5" can be seen, the front view in IWM B9292 also posted by Michael, shows that it is also "51". A photo taken some time in Normandy of a sapper of 253rd Fld Coy, RE of the same division shows him sporting the "50" flash consistent with his unit:


In addition, if you look at the equipment that is visible above the "addition", it is much more consistent with engineering equipment than of a signals/command vehicle.

Another photo of a half-track belonging to 17th Fld Coy, RE has been published in Patrick Delaforce's "Monty's Ironsides". This photo belongs to one of the crew members who states that it was used for carrying explosives (note the "51" AOS marking on the front right fender/wing):


Sam Wren
Abilene, TX

"My cat may be able to telepathically control my mind, but he will never be able to play the piano." - unknown

I like the last photo a lot and even found a copy of Monty's Ironsides on Amazon and bought one.

Thanks for this Sam, I have a whole new hole to start digging into.

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