I don't understand why one of the South Korean manufactres has not produced a current updated accurate model of the T-80U kit in 1/35" scale that the South Korean Army has about 30+ of these MBT's in service and operation. This is a very interesting modern tank that could sure use a good kit, as there are a number of these in operation by a number of countries. The currnet T-80 kits are so inaccrate and need so much work to even get close to looking like a T-80U. I will be hoping that someone will read this thread in Korea.
Bob "Tex" Hanes

Like Trumpeter, or Hobby Boss

The Chinese may have one, but Academy probably has more reasonable access to South Korean T-80U and could probably produce one fairly rapidly.

RobG

The reason I said South Korea and not China is because they will go measure the real deal and not use inaccurate drawings and photos to do the masters. Trumpeter and Hobby Boss is well know for not taking avantage of outside help and not correnting problems in kits that are reissuue as a different version (T-62 series) as and example. Also there pricing on there models is way to high for what you get, and all the aftermarket items that you must buy to make correctings to make the kit look accurate. I don't understand why these Chinese companies donot take avantage of the expert help that is offered. I have for one has offered help that they had ask for and sent and never even got a THANK YOU or Kiss My *** answer, so you can see why I have a low reguard for there products, which are over priced and inaccurate.
Bob "Tex" Hanes

A new T-80 kit would be nice - don't really mind who produces it, but to respond to your comments:

The answer is actually fairly straightforward.

90-95% of the model-buying public world-wide aren't interested in perfection. They like the look of a kit, buy it and enjoy building it. Even if a company knows about errors in the kit, they don't need to correct them as the kit will still sell if it proves to be a popular subject.

It's only a small minority of modellers who are obsessive about accuracy and we're not the model companies' primary market.

OK - some companies are willing to revisit a set of moulds and make changes, but I would suggest that they do so for altruistic reasons rather than purely commercial reasons.

Besides, it's fun to use some real modelling skills and sort out minor faults on a kit. I'd rather start with a model that is 80-90% perfect rather than wait years for a 'better' one that may or may never appear (and will probably have other errors instead).


Regards,
John

Dear John:
I don't know about you, but the modeling kits are not cheap anymore, so I like to get the best buy for my money. Being that I am old and now retired I have issues with some of the companies that are only in for the profit and not for the quality of the product. I look at DML (dragron) that seems to try and improve on there products as well as Tamiya, and I don't mind spending my cash to a company that really cres in what they produce. The difference between the Chinese and the Japanese products is that the Japanese and Hong Kong companies still want the best quality product on the market because they are proud of the work, the Chinese only want to do what they have to put out a half Axx product for the hobbiest at a very high price. The only exception that I have seen is the new Chinese company Xuntong Model that has produced the new 1/48" TU-2T kit, I know it isn't a tank but the quality is outstanding and the detail is wonderful. Maybe they well do some armour in the future.
Bob "Tex" Hanes

Bob,

My budget is limited - I buy perhaps 6-8 kits a year - and I rarely buy dedicated aftermarket sets for my projects. I don't buy expensive kits. I don't always buy the latest kits. I buy the stuff I want to build (which are mostly modern subjects).

I find the Chinese kits to be on a par with the likes of Dragon and Tamiya in terms of price - often cheaper - and the detail is excellent on many of them. I agree some of them aren't great, but those are getting fewer and the overall standard is increasing rapidly. They are also picking subjects we haven't previously seen, rather than going with the crowd.

Overall they are a good addition to the market and that has got to be healthy for the hobby.

Regards,
John

Or Hobbyboss for that matter. And since this is the modern DG, I'll use some examples:

Hobbyboss Leopard 2A4, $15.99 at Lucky.

Trumpeter Challenger 2: $11.40 at Hobbystuff Depot

M-1117 Guardian: $19 also at Hobbystuff Depot

Flash back to 1981, I remember saving up my paperoute money to buy a Tamiya Chieftain for the kingly sum of $25.

Comparing 80's era Tamiya to modern Trumpeter is still pretty much apples to apples, except for the fact there was 30 years of inflation inbetween.

I'd agree with you that most Trumpeter / HB kits are "tamiya-like" in detail or engineering. But their price reflects that, plus, they are releasing new 35th scale subjects at 10x the rate of Tamiya.



GD

Maybe its different where you are Bob, but here in the UK I absolutely cannot agree with your remark that the pricing of Chinese kits suck. Actually for me Trumpeter and Hobbyboss probably the only two mainstream manufacturers I pay much attention to. Dragon, Tamiya etc prices in the UK have gotten absolutely silly, whereas Trumpeter and Hobbyboss are far more affordable, and willing to tackle subjects no one else will touch. The new Hobbyboss Merkava 3D for example can be purchased online for roughly £25.00, which in my opinion is a fantastic price for a 2012 kit, true it might not be perfect, but actually it looks pretty awesome.

On the other hand, your example of a Korean company, I guess Academy comes to mind, are a company known for making cock-ups on their kits. While they have improved a lot in recent years I certainly don't put them ahead of any Chinese companies. If Tamiya tackled the T-80 one would probably be paying the same price for a full resin conversion, and you can pretty much forget Dragon from even thinking about this subject. Ok I guess hope might rest with Meng Models or some similar new company.

I'm not saying these Chinese companies are angels, but it just sounds like have an axe to grind, and your criticisms frankly are a little unfounded.

Rob

Dear Rob:
I am glad the Chinese kits are cheaper in the UK because they are not cheap here in the States and alot of models will not buy their kits due to the prices and the accuracy of the subject until it is discounted or goes on sale. I don't mind paying a fair price for any kit as long as you don't have to spend a small fortune on update sets to correct problems that should not have occured if the R&D would have been done correctly, and not buy using inaccurate drawings and photos with out looking at the real deal as this is how most of the Chinese do most of their research. The Chinese best subjects seem to be Soviet/Russian equipment any thing else is a throw of the dice. I know that they produce kits of subjects that alot of mainstream model manufactures will not even think about doing a kit, but if it is the only boat in town try and make sure you do a accurate one. I like Soviet/Russian armour subjects and enjoy building these kits, so this why I get a little up set when you spend $50.00 to $75.00 on a kit and still have to buy another $50.00 worth of update parts to make it look correct. Modeling is not a kids hobby anymore and hasen't been for some time as we all know, so I just like to get the best bang for my buck and the Chinese are more interested in the dollars then the product as some dumb Yankee will by the kit anyway. I just like to get a good kit for a fair price that I can enjoy in building, which is what everybody expects and wants.
And that is my last word on the subject,
Bob "Tex" Hanes

Well said Robert! I totally agree. The Chinese companies could have all the expert advice, correct drawings, heck they could have the real tank right in front of them and they still seem make at least one or two {if not more} major dimesional errors on each kit. To a serious modeler this is not acceptable! If they are not going to do it right they should stick to Paper Panzers or SciFi.

But I can guarantee you that if Dragon, Tamiya and Trumpeter/Hobby Boss all came up with a T-80 kit.........


The Dragon one would in some way share parts from their ages old kit from yesteryear, and they would expect you to pay a premium for it, essentially being a re-pop with upgraded parts of their old kit.

Tamiya, while it would likely be an all new kit, and likely the easiest to build of the 3, would also probably be the most expensive.

Meanwhile, Trumpeter/Hobby Boss would give you a well detailed kit, lots of parts, and a relatively easy built for about 20% less than what the other 2 would conjure up, and likely have it to market first.

Would it be perfect? No....but neither would the other 2.

And in the end, this is a hobby isn't it? Harkens back to the old argument....are you a builder or and assembler?

Besides, if it walks, talks and acts like a duck.....must be a duck.


No problems here with what the Chinese manufacturers are cooking up, at least it isn't another over priced Pz.III, and they are actually making kits that people want and are asking for.

you pretty much nailed it there Scott, on all points, couldn't have put it better myself

For instance, when they released the M1A1AIM and M1A2SEP, those two kits were totally redone and shared nothing from their previous M1A1HA and M1A2 kits. I'm not too up on their WW2 German kits, but I believe they did the same thing with the Nashorn (totally different tooling from their original issue but includes bits from other like-chassis vehicle kits).

RobG

However, it would still be a fair chunk more than the same subject being released from Trumpeter or Hobby Boss, and would be no better as far accuracy goes.

I'm sure we'll see one in the next few years.

...I agree that there SHOULD be a Modern, updated plastic kit out there. The T-80 being the quintessential Soviet "scary tank" of the 1980's and the end of the cold war. And SP Designs has been doing very good business on helping the modeler build accurate T-80's based on the SKIF kit http://saammodels.tripod.com/t-80.html (I know, I know). I have even mastered some of the parts. So I am in on this.

However....

I think that there are a lot of things standing against a kit coming out soon:

1. The South Koreans have the T-80U...a tank that has no headlines and there are relatively few of them left. While the hull is fairly close to a T-80B (He says with qualifications), it probably is not close enough AND the turret is completely different.

2. There are a LOT of museum pieces that are experiments and prototypes that could QUICKLY lead to some kit snafu's...

3. The T-80B is still regarded by its Chechnya reputation...ie, a explosive looser target. While it is not true, in my book at least, for the average person looking to buy a kit, it may not really get them to buy the kit. It does not enjoy the same looser reputation that German WWII armor does.

On the plus side, Trumpeter seems to be on a bit modern vehicle run so they may do us a solid!

I would love to see a new T-80. I always thought that if any company would produce a new kit, it would be Academy. They have the T-80U in service and would not have to go far for measurements and photos of the real deal. There are also quite a few versions that they can make from a T-80U it could be produced like the early Dragon kits different engine decks and turrets etc. Think the anount of kits that can be produced t-80,t-80w/era, T-80U,T-80UE, T-80 Drozd,Brem-80U, T-80M1,T-84,T-84U, with the hull you can produce an early BlackEagle and a 2S19 Msta. If Trumpeter, Hobby Boss, Tamiya, Kenetic, Meng,Rich, or Zvezda would produced it, I don't care as long as we have a NEW T-80. Zvezda did a nice job on the T-90, they also would not have to go far for measurements and photos. If their T-90 is any clue as to what a T-80 from Zvezda would look like them great. Bottom line a new T-80 is long long over due !!! Cheers Joe

I was just out the door and I had to write this about the T-80. Almost every section of the T-80 has been reproduced in resin, the turret(different versions) the hull(different versions) the road wheels , the tracks, I think only the lower hull has not been produced in resin. All of these fixes are not cheap yet they are produced because there is a market for them. So wouldn't there be a market for a new T-80 in plastic? I'm surprised that a company has not used all the after market resin kits and used them for a "model" of their own "new tooled" plastic kit. On a final note I would think DEF would produce a T-80 kit since they are producing South Korean vehicle. Maybe Hobby Gallery(also producing South Korean Vehicles) would make a full resin or conversion kit. I would be willing purchase a full resin kit of a South Korean T-80U if it was offered by either DEF or Hobby Gallery. (Like Jacques I am also a T-80 booze hound. If Darth Vader were a tank he would be a T-80U !!! I also agree with Jacques the T-80 was the booggie man tank of the early to mid 80's. The T-80 in Chechnya did not have their ERA filled with explosives(the ERA boxes were empty) and the wrong tactics were used. Any tank would have received a beating without infantry support in urban combat. Just my 2 cents. Cheers Joe

I know I said that I was thru writing on this thread, but I must clarify what a bad rap the T-80 got in the 1st Chechen War was not the tanks failure or fault, but the tactics that were used by the Russian command. These tanks were sitting ducks without infantry support (which were not trained for urban combat)and were only conscripts with less then a year of training as were the tank crews. The tank crews were not trained on the use of the T-80, as they didnt even know that the turbine engine burned more fuel at idel then when running at full power. Most of the T-80 tank kills by the Chechens were due to RPG fired from above into the lightly armoured engine section and the top of the turret and then getting a secondary explosion of the internal tank ammo. These units lost over 75% of there tanks due to this lack of training and was like a big turkey shoot for the Chechens. What a wastes of human life due to stupid tactics. No tank has a 360 degree protection without infantry to protect it espically in a urban environment.
Bob "Tex" Hanes