Home > Discussion Groups > Braille Scale

Message posting guidelines:
1.

Full real names must be used at all times.

2.
A valid e-mail address must be provided. (This is not optional)
3.
  Images must be posted at low resolution (72 dpi) and no larger than 760 pixels wide, and copyright/trade mark owners must be credited whenever reasonably possible.
4. From 20 April, registration is compulsory if you wish to post messages on the Discussion Groups. For further information, please see the following message: http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=47210&messageid=1113823253
Please read our Community guidelines before posting.
By contributing to this discussion group, you indicate your agreement to the Terms and Conditions of Use.
Posts that violate the guidelines or Terms and conditions of Use of the Missing-lynx.com discussion groups will be erased, and repeated violation of this policy may result in termination of the violator's account.

Advertisement
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Dragon's Stug IV progresses (pics heavy-tedious)

April 16 2009 at 4:22 AM
  (Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Hi all, I'm afraid I'll not be able to take part in the Pz IV ML & BSMC because in a few weeks my workspace will be occupied by a newborn baby, my first one happy.gif and I suppose I'll not have neither space nor time to finish this work in time.
Perhaps some of you could be interested in the progresses thus far, so I'll try to be accurate in my description of the mods applied to Dragon's Stug IV.

The finished model should represent a mid-to-late, "mit Zimmerit" Stug IV.
I choose to represent '23' a Stug IV photographed in Prussia, characterised by zimmerit, field applied gun bracket, and mixed cement/steel plate add-on armor for the casemate.
I used one box each of Dragon Stug IV Early and Late, and some parts of Dragon's Stug III and Revell's PzIV.
Photoetched parts are Eduard's, and I'll use a Part gun barrel.
I based my modelling on the well respected Jentz and Doyle drawings, photographs, and books on the subject. A good digital caliper, and much time to spare are fundamental tools.

Web1.jpg

The basic hull is dimensionally correct. I used the late hull with early front- and side plates so that I had to modify the return roller mounting plates (from three to four), placing them according to the J-D plans. I did that because I wanted the late-style suspension stops (which anyway I removed and scratchbuilt at a later stage- these are oversimplified, rather thick, and misplaced, so I choose the scratchbuilding approach).

Web2.jpg

I added some bolts (sliced stretched styrene) to the transmission cover (some are misplaced in the kit), and detailed the suspension assemblies with bolts and leaf-springs ends.

Web3.jpg

Some more bolt heads were added: I used both punch-and-die and sliced sprue techniques.

Web4.jpg

The rear plate is dimensionally correct, I just thinned the horizontal strakes and substituted the tow hook assembly. The idler wheel/track tensioning assembly is approximate and needs some detailing.

Web5.jpg

I replaced some parts with more accurate, scratchbuilt items. the exhaust positioning holes are misplaced in the kit, I corrected the exhaust positions thanks to the J-D drawings. Weld beads have been added everywhere needed, etching the plastic with a sharp 10A scalpel tip.

Web6.jpg

The front armor plate was detailed with new tow rings- a difficult work to get them right- but the end result is convincing to my eye. If you're interested in figures (I'm not usually, but this time I was curious to know) the lower hull has about 320 parts added to the original Dragon pieces. I must point out that the added parts just improve accuracy, as the basic shape is correct and the position of all of the elements is accurate except for the exhausts, suspension stops, and return rollers.

Web7.jpg

Upper hull/casemate
I tend to learn more and more of the subject while I'm modelling it- so when I start a new project I do lot of stupid errors. First thing I did when I started the Stug project was substituting the hull-roof plate to
the side of the driver's compartment (Dragon's overly thick), then I added the driver's compartment to the casemate- WRONG!- the kit's part is quite misshapen, it needs to be lengthened and sloped. I modified it at a later stage, but in these pics it remains as firstly assembled. The fenders are scratch-built items with photoetched textured plates (Eduard Stug IV late set).Dragon casemate is dimensionally OK with J-D (I mean to the tenth of millimeter!) EXCEPT for the gun opening. It is too wide, and the saukopf mantlet results oversized too. The fix is not too difficult: I cut two new
cheek plates in plasticard of the correct thickness, the plates extending to the base of the casemate, then plied them to the correct angle (J-D helps a lot here!). I then cut away the kit's cheek plates LEVEL with the casemate sloped front plates (actually extending the width of the sloped plates). At this point I placed the new cheek plates respecting the right distances from the casemate sides (I pencil-marked those data on the right plate, it is barely discernible in the pic). Then filled the gap and restored the weld beads. This defect is, sadly,common to the newer Stug III mould.

Web8.jpg

The kit's saukopf mantlet is plainly horrible. It's too squarish and, worst of all oversized in width by more than 1mm. If you mod the casemate opening to the correct width, the shield won't ever fit inside the corrected opening... so again I took J-D and reshaped the manlet, turning the front part in a lathe and shaping the rest with files and sandpaper. Before reshaping takes place, you should be careful to fill the mantlet with epoxy putty- otherwise the sanding process will open holes in the top "corners" of the saukopf. The end result is correct to the tenth of mm, at lest for the dimensions that can be measured with my faithful caliper; good news? The gun opening diameter is correct (about 2mm) so the replacement barrel will fit just right. I detailed the front fenders with bolts and springs, added the concrete armor, and replaced the gutter (the kit's one is wrongly placed). Please notice the spare track section on the front plate: In Revell's PzIVs (having wrong sized track-links) just six links fit in this place. Dragon has right-sized links, but the links you get are... eight!!! Why?????? I cut the eigth link, detailed the ends and hollowed two horns, as in the pic of the original "23" I'm basing my work on.

Web9.jpg

I scratchbuilt the casemate skirts, used a refined Dragon Stug III cupola (some adjustment is needed to fit it), antenna mounts, and fan cover. The pic of the casemate roof of "23" shows that the MG is not mounted, while the Nahverteidigungswaffe seems present (odd enough?). Also, the three-pilzen configuration is well apparent. At this point many hull details are still missing, they will be added after the "rough handling" required for the assembly of the lower hull.

Web10.jpg

Wheels, or How To Ruin Your Entire Week
Shortly, Dragon wheels have wrong diameter, wrong rim diameter, and are a little off in terms of concentricity. Revell wheels are spot-on in diameter (in the pic a comparison of the two, Dragon's gray, Revell's yellow),rim diameter seems fairly good, but have depressingly shallow detail. I tried an hybridization of the two kinds: Revell wheels with Dragon hubcaps, far from perfect but quite convincing at the end.

Web11.jpg

First step: how to get them aligned?
I holed through Revell hubcaps with a 1mm drill, then carefully assembled the wheel pairs and inserted a 1mm styrene rod as a mounting pin. Then I built on a flat surface a jig in which the wheels are kept in place. The flat surface keeps the faces even, the styrene "main" rails keep them aligned to the ground (the two interleaved rails push the wheels against the flat surface, the two side rails keep them aligned).

Web12.jpg

At this point I inserted and glued the hull in place, reinforcing with cyano glue.

Web13.jpg

Et voilà, after breaking the jig and extracting the hull you can see the yellow wheel spacers still in place.
They are cut-to-size layers of Post-it stickers (the number of sheets gives the right spacing, about 0.36mm). They stick in place 'cause.... well that's obvious! Notice that zimmerit appeared overnight!

Web14.jpg

Now, the jig ensures that the wheels are well aligned in a row, but the two rows are not aligned reciprocally if the hull is twisted. I marked with a green marker the wheels bottoms then sanded lightly over an abrasive planar base until seeing all of the green marks touched a bit by the sanding operation. Now the wheelbase is flat with terrain.

Web15.jpg

Hubs are explanted from Dragon rims and transplanted. Difficult/scary++ operation...

Web16.jpg

...but the result is nice indeed (at least I think so!)

Web17.jpg

The sprockets had the rims hollowed out; I reduced also the hub diameter, so that I had to modify the cone of the lower part, this was quickly done in a lathe. The hollowed rims will give a great improvement to the realism of the finished model.

Web18.jpg

Installing the return rollers: Again Post-it spacers and caliper measurements help to place the rollers in the correct reciprocal positions

Web19.jpg

The model today: lower and upper hull are cemented together, and the driver compartment has been modified.

Web20.jpg

The lower hull has been pre-painted with dark yellow to ensure the best visive yeld for the zimmerit I applied before.

Web21.jpg

I modified with the correct slope the drivers compartment: sawed away a wedge of it, pressed down the front part, glued then puttyed and sanded it plain. Now it has a correct slope and the protruding front armor plate.

Web22.jpg

The rear side, waiting for more details. I corrected the thickness of the rear armor plate, thus the white stripe filling the original separation mark.

At this point I'll start with the final detailing phase, then paint will follow, then tracks will be installed, then the weathering process... I hope to get there soon, but it will be difficult... baby cries at the horizon!
Cheers
Stefano



    
This message has been edited by h2oste on Apr 20, 2009 7:24 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

(Login LuisRDuarte)
Missing-Lynx members

You should go to therapy!

April 16 2009, 5:56 AM 

My God, I considered myself an insane nut of chopping and changing kits, but I've been surpased by far!!
You should go to therapy, it's not good for your brain health!! happy.gif
Seriously, you faced your project with an sharp accuracy objetive. I'm not an expert of Panzers and German hardware, so I have not good graphic references (scale drawings) for many ot the types, even so representative as the StuG. IV; despite it, I considered Dragon StuGs quite accurate. But, according with you, I'm completly wrong and a lot of work should be put if you want an truly-truly accurate StuG...
In line with my described ignorance about Panzers, I used to think that StuG. IVs had too the lower hull scape hatch seen in Pz. IV chassis, but you deleted it.
I love the way you done the Zimmerit. I think that you used directly an tool on the softened, soaked in cement, kit surface. Could you tell us the technique and tools, please?
The job in the wheels is really admirable.
Sincerely, I don't want to go to this limits in my own StuGs, I'll still living with their -for me- minor inaccuracies, but I have to express my admiration for your minutious and patient job; sure your StuG would be an jewel!
Thanks for sharing your progress with us.
Cheers: Luis.

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

...I'll sign up for therapy...promised...

April 16 2009, 7:37 AM 

Luis, thanks for your appreciative technical/medical comments happy.gif
And you know Stugs well, in fact the escape hatch was something I was not aware of at the beginning, I hated that strange, circular "sink mark" in the lower hull and I removed it! Later I understood it is an escape hatch! As I was trying to explain, I do lot of stupid things at the beginning of my projects... I did not try to restore it 'cause it's almost invisible down there.
Let me point out that Dragon's Stugs are Almost Perfect by themselves, simply I try to render mine as accurate as my skills allow. If I had to say what's the biggest fault with it, I'd say the gun mantlet and the driver's compartment. In effect, Craig Ellis is selling a modified driver's compartment which is probably more accurate than mine, and is an easy swap with Dragon part. As for the casemate/gun mantlet, I choose to follow closely J+D with big p.i.t.a., but simply changing the mantlet with Craig's one is a fair alternative.
About zimmerit, I used a fairly exotic technique, I'll try to post some specific pic when I zim the upper surface... it's a photosensitive cement applied with a odd spatula-tool of mine, and is about 0.08mm thick... I tried this method for a full month before even starting with the model.
Thanks, Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login FredKonynenburg)
Missing-Lynx members

Stug IV

April 16 2009, 6:55 AM 


Your project is spectacular! The Stug IV is one of my all-time favorite vehicles and I had no idea that the Dragon kit was so inaccurate - so your posting is a great help simply from that perspective.

That is quite apart from the skill, eye for detail and sheer persistance that your project demonstrates. Fantastic work!

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Thank you Fred

April 16 2009, 7:49 AM 

I've much appreciated the work you published days ago, sadly had not time to post!
Thanks for your comments, anyway I'm not suggesting that Dragon Stug is wrong, simply I'm pointing out that it can be improved in some inaccuracies, that's all. I'm not an expert of german WWII tanks, I simply tried to base my work on documents instead of building the kit as is.
Thanks and please continue with your inspiring work!
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login FredKonynenburg)
Missing-Lynx members

thanks Stefano

April 17 2009, 8:47 AM 


but it's a real pity your project won't be ready in time for the competition. It certainly deserves to be entered. All my best wishes for the new arrival too!

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: thanks Stefano

April 17 2009, 9:42 AM 

I'll do my best Fred, thank you, especially for the whishes...need'em!
happy.gif
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   
Bud Highleyman
(Login wilbhi2)
Missing-Lynx members

This is 72nd scale?

April 16 2009, 7:57 AM 

you are doing an incredible amount of work on this.
Bravo.

Good luck with your new born. You'll will really enjoy the time.

"I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow's not looking too good either." - anon

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: This is 72nd scale?

April 16 2009, 9:07 AM 

Thanks bud,
especially for the good luck whishes, modelling seems nothing when you compare it to real life. Thank you
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login alexclark)
MODERATORS ONLY - Braille

Fantastic work

April 16 2009, 8:04 AM 

Hi Stefano

You've really done some good detailing on the kit. I also think the Dragon wheels are a big weakness on all their PzIV based kits (including the new Ausf. F) so I've been replacing them too.

Regards

Alex

may_ad_final.jpg

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Fantastic work

April 16 2009, 9:11 AM 

Hi Alex,
thank you for the appreciation; yes it would be nice to have a replacement set for the roadwheels/sprocket, perhaps Craig will do something about it?
Cheers, and good luck with your -F (1?)
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login kagero43)
Missing-Lynx members

What can I say...

April 16 2009, 8:10 AM 

Simply STUNNING! Your precision is perfect. The kits are already good, but you have brought them to another dimension entirely. I always get amazed that the becnhmark gets pushed higher in braille than one thinks possible! Thanks for sharing. Also congrats on your new baby!

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: What can I say...

April 16 2009, 9:16 AM 

Thanks Harvey,
I love your work, so your appreciation is very welcome! And thank you for the congrats, we (my wife, baby and me) need just a little bit of luck more, delivery is expected mid-may...
PS are there some pics of your b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l 1/350 Nagato online?
Thanks, regards
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Rodeomonkey)
Missing-Lynx members

Wonderful work

April 16 2009, 9:15 AM 

Stefano,
You've done some sensational work on that stug, your level of skill and patience is far above mine and you make my attempt of accurizing the Jagdpanzer IV I finished last month look like butchery!
It's such a pitty you won't have it finished in time, but good luck with the new baby.
Best regards,

Jason.


 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Wonderful work

April 16 2009, 9:22 AM 

Jason don't be shy, I think your work is really beautiful! Simply I spend a lot of time building particulars that nobody cares of! As I told you, I treasured your warning about DS tracks and I would love to have half your skill with pigment weathering!
Thanks again (for the baby in particular), all the best
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login petersisung)
Missing-Lynx members

Very nice work!

April 16 2009, 4:28 PM 

Just incredible. About the road wheel hubs though, why bother replacing the Revell hubs with those of Dragon? The Revell hubs are already quite nice.

Beautiful work.

Cheers

Peter

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Very nice work!

April 17 2009, 3:22 AM 

Hi Peter,
thanks for the positive comments; about the roadwheels: after looking at pics of the real thing I noticed that the Revell hubs are too thin; actually the entire rim is quite shallow, while Dragon's is much better. I choose a compromise in accuracy, while the best way to have a correct roadwheel would be reducing the diameter(s) of the dragon parts. Anyway it's just a matter of personal preference, in the past months I've appreciated the beautiful Stug of Alex Clark in which a masterful use of lights/shadows gives the Revell rims much more a 3D look than they actually have!
thanks, cheers!
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login fabry66)
Missing-Lynx members

Stefano!!!

April 16 2009, 5:11 PM 

...Fantastico!!!! Wonderfull!!! How do you made the zimmerit???
Cheers, Fabrizio

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Stefano!!!

April 17 2009, 3:26 AM 

Ciao Fabrizio, grazie!
About the zimmerit, it's done with a UV-curing optical cement (I work in the optics field). I'll try to take some specific picture when applying the upper hull zimm.
Grazie ancora, e complimenti a te per i bellissimi lavori che ti ho visto realizzare!
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Rob_Haelterman)
Missing-Lynx members

Holy Moly !

April 17 2009, 3:56 AM 

That's taking modeling to the next level !!!
Impressive, and a wealth of info for anyone building this vehicle !

Would you care to make this info available for posterity on On The Way ?


Cheers
Rob

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Holy Moly !

April 17 2009, 7:12 AM 

Thank you for the positive comments Rob!
Yes I would be glad to help On The Way, just let me know what you need!
Cheers,
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login Queeg)
Missing-Lynx members

Awesome detailing

April 17 2009, 5:05 AM 

Respect for the huge amount of work going into this!!!!!!!

 

Brent



GentlemansWargamesParlour
http://gwargamesp.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=21

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Awesome detailing

April 17 2009, 7:13 AM 

Thanks Brent,
slowly proceeding, next step is detailing the upper hull.
Cheers,
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   
craig ellis
(Login 8wheels-good)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Awesome detailing

April 17 2009, 7:04 PM 

Amazing clean build Stefano!! Love it.
Your skill is really inspiring. I have thought of playing around with the idler mount details and then forgot about it, what glue and plastic card are you using to get such fine crisp detail?

Make kits, not Love.
Get the snip after the little one arrives so we can see more of your wonderful work wink.gif
Best of luck in May
Craig

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Awesome detailing

April 20 2009, 4:35 AM 

Thank you very much Craig!
I have it all well planned, the baby will sleep at some point... and I'll be ready with glue and paints!
The thinnest plastic card available (that I'm aware of) is 0.005"; I use Evergreen, you should be able to find it on Ebay, otherwise drop me a message I should have a spare packet. About glue, I use a liquid glue that was produced by Misterkit in Italy; in principle trichloroethilene works fine as an alternative. Be aware that 0.005 melts easily and is better glued with cianoacrylates.
Thanks, especially for the good luck wishes that are badly needed!
All the best,
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login peter_bergstrom)
Missing-Lynx members

This is too much for me!

April 18 2009, 4:39 AM 

Aargh! This is way too good. Really outstanding! Makes me want to quit modelling and start collecting stamps. I´m not worthy...
Plese finish it as soon as you can, and post more pics. Good luck with the baby.
/Peter

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: This is too much for me!

April 20 2009, 4:18 AM 

Thanks Peter,
don't say that, simply I've spent a LOT of time in detailing, if I remember well, I've started this project in october, working sporadically.
Thank you very much for the your positive comments and most of all for the baby whishings... I hope he will help me in the future!
Cheers
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   
Christian Weber
(Login christianweber43)
Missing-Lynx members

Amazing!

April 18 2009, 7:43 AM 

It's awsome what is possibly in braille scale! I wish I had that patience! Incredible! Respect...

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Re: Amazing!

April 20 2009, 4:20 AM 

Thanks Christian, you're too generous!
best regards
Stefano

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login MMMT)
Missing-Lynx members

non ho parole.............Gorgeous

April 22 2009, 5:55 PM 

Gia' mi ero fatto male a vedere il motore del P47 ....ma questo......happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login h2oste)
Missing-Lynx members

Grazie!

April 23 2009, 2:25 AM 

Argh coltello nella piaga, il P47 aspetta ancora la verniciatura finale, ha subito un arresto di sviluppo all'ultimo trasloco. Spero di essere un po più concludente stavolta!
Ciao, grazie!

 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Dragon's Stug IV progresses (pics heavy-tedious)
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  


Terms and Conditions of Use
Report abuse