Does anyone use these paints?

I bought a set of their colours for Italian Vehicles Western desert WWII.

I find them very thin and watery. I need three coats of a light colour if it is overpainting a darker colour, and on 1/72 scale that often means a slight loss of detail, rivets etc.

Hi David
I use them all the time in fact they are now my default choice. I dont recognise the problems you are describing - I find they brush paint well but there are not many paints that will give you a solid coverage of a dark colour in one coat. I suggest airbrushing them - this will give you the coverage without the loss of detail.

regards David
AFV Modeller Magazine

How on earth do you manage to spray them David. I've really tried hard using all sorts of thinners and ratios. I've just got some of those modulation sets (although I hate colour modulation with a passion) and had another go on an old test model. Thinning with their own brand thinners about 20% I found I could get an opaque layer but I had to mist it on in many layers over matt base or it pooled; and it ended up very matt, so matt I worry that it will just soak up any gloss varnish.

Yours

Frustrated in Cranwell

aka Jamie

Hi Jamie,

I find a 50/50 mix works fine either with Lifecolour thinner or just tap water. Its in and out of my airbrush continually and usually behaves impeccably. It is matt - I usually apply a satin varnish but I would rather that than other acrylics that refuse to dry matt when you need them to!
Maybe worth speaking to the guys at the Airbrush Company as they are the UK distributors and will no doubt be better informed than me and my hit and miss dilutions

regards David

Never found them to be watery, and if anyting I am one of those people who puts their paint on somewhat thick. One thing... did you stir them thoroughly as opposed to just shaking the bottles or could you have overthinned them for spraying?

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have, unlike James Bond, both "shaken and stirred" the paints!
I hand paint. I've never used an air brush in my life.


(Mods. I'm still not getting any notifications!)

From Mike Starmer's post on Life colour Caunter in the "Allied" section.

I quote ""My samples were thin and watery and did not cover well either but that was with brushing out. I thought the whole set a waste of money.""

Well, it might be just you and Mr Starmer then.

Like several of the others who have responded I would not class the paints as "thin and watery" and find them excellent for both hand-brushing and airbrushing. They are my preferred paint brand -- not least because their large jars make them very economical compared to other brands (at least here in Australia).



Bruce Probst
Melbourne, Australia
My modelling portfolio:http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about22022.html

Bruce.

If you don't like "Thin & watery", how else would you describe an acrylic paint that needs three or more coats? When Vallejo needs only one, or at the very most two.

I'm not whinging, I really want these paints to be good. Might I have a duff batch?


(Mods. I'm still not getting notifications!)

And I don't recall thinning them much. I used a few drops of their own thinner. Like a lot of paints they do need to go over a primer or base coat. If you just spray it on bare plastic you might have problems.

This is one coat of Model Color OD sprayed over Poly Scale Earth. It was not so thin it ran under the tape mask either

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I find for hand painting that Vallejo paints can take a couple of coats but i thin those out a bit. Now I really dislike Model Air.

i have tried and failed to get them to spray evenly, without clogging the tip of my airbrush

i threw them all away, but thought it was just me

however, over the past 2-3 years, it seems (anecdotally anyway) that more people seem to have critical fails with lifecolor than any other paint

we all have our favourites / pet hates, but this brand seems to crop up more than others

do yourself a favour and give Gunze Aqueous Hobby a whirl - an acrylic that sprays like a lacquer / enamel (beautifully smooth), but dries rock hard in no time at all

all the best

Nick

Sadly not imported to the US any more. It's quite hard to find. I do like their Mr. Color lacquers though.

Anecdotally, you're speaking through your hat.

How many people who don't have problems post regularly to say how many problems they're not having?

I'm sorry that you've had poor experiences with LC paint. Plenty of other people don't have these same poor experiences. Your experience doesn't define anything other than "your experience". You can't generalise it to every other modeller in the world. Are you saying that those of use who have had different experiences to you are lying? I don't think *you're* lying.

If there is any underlying "cause" it may be that different people have different painting techniques. We might think that we're all doing it just the same as everyone else, but in reality we're all individuals and everything we do is unique to ourselves. It may be that LC paints react poorly to particular techniques that work fine with other brands -- other brands that perhaps the person has spent a long time getting accustomed to. I can't tell you what my techniques are, all I can tell you is that LC gives me no problems at all.

On the other hand, I can't hand-brush Tamiya acrylics at all, and in my opinion it's an impossible task. Yet I've seen other people post who say that they do this all the time and have never had an issue with it. Am I saying Tamiya acrylics are bad? No, I'm just saying that I don't use them for hand-brushing.


Bruce Probst
Melbourne, Australia
My modelling portfolio:http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about22022.html

if you want an argument go somewhere else please

respectfully, give it a rest

Nick Mayhew

Actually it's called a "conversation". You know, a presentation of various opinions, stated in a civil manner? If you don't like what I'm saying, feel free to not read it or respond to it. Calling someone a "troll" just because you don't agree with something they've said is pretty close to the actual meaning of "trolling".


Bruce Probst
Melbourne, Australia
My modelling portfolio:http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about22022.html

no bruce, do not be so disingenuous as to suggest your previous post was conversation

conversation is saying you disagree, and perhaps why, in a civil manner

saying i am 'talking out of my hat' is just plain rude

especially since i was not the OP, who had problems with the paint, nor indeed subsequent posters who also chimed in and said they had issues too

Nick,
With the greatest respect just because you had problems with spraying the paint does not make it fatally flawed. If it were so prone to the clogging you had how can I spray it on a daily basis without problem? Surely it would behave the same for me?

To say lifecolor regularly crops up as a problem is wrong and I am going to stand up as a professional user and say the exact opposite. I use various paints and share your enthusiasm for Gunze too but getting the tops off them is enough to make you throw them away sometimes! They do not brush paint well for me and I have found touching in sprayed areas with a brush is not very successful. They also lack the range of armour colours but for aircraft they are my first choice.

Spraying paint is notoriously delicate balance of paint consistency, air pressure and airbrush set up. Get one a bit wrong and you will have problems. I had a problem recently with Vallejo paint starting to clog as I think the paint was staring to settle in the airbrush cup. It was probably more to do with me using water to thin it but certainly not reason to label all Vallejo paints as not great.

This was all sprayed with lifecolor and it's 1:16 so not a quick job it took a whole pot of Lifecolor dunkelgelb. Three years work - would you risk painting it with an inferior paint?

regards David
AFV Modeller Magazine

David,

i stand by what i said - i couldn't get it to work, and i see posts where others say the same

this is NOT the same as saying that nobody can

you can spray it well, so good for you

if you want some of my anecdotal evidence i can tell you that the reviewers i work with were all offered some samples we were given, and the silence was resounding

these are guys who are commission modellers (far better than i), and i would assume on a par with yourself if you want to play the 'i'm in a magazine and published' game...

what does this "prove"? well, nothing beyond what i initially said: i see lots of guys saying they have issues with LC paint

that was all

nice Kitty btw - have been following the build

Nick

with most paints and painting approaches there are so many variables. What works for one person may not work for another. Again, I totally hate Model Air paint and think they are awful, but other folks get good results with them. On the other hand, I have had no probelms with Model Color, although you have had issues with them.

If you look at my paint chest I have Gunze, Testors, Floquil, Humbrol, Tamiya, Vallejo, Poly Scale, Life Color, etc. I use some paints for some things, and some for others.

Fortunately for modelers we have so much choice. I am old enough to remember having ONLY the basic Testors small jars of paint, the small jars of Pactra International Military colors, and oddball stuff like Imrie Riesley lacquers. Today there are so many brands and formulas of paints that most people can find something they like and will stick with it. I still like enamels actually... They worked great 40 years ago and work great now (for me).

I know people that swear by lifecolor, Others I know claim Vallejo are the best, others tamiya

The waters are further muddied by people that basically benefit from endorsements; people who claim to use a certain colour because they get them free. (not talking about anyone here but it does happen)


I bought a load of Valejo Model Air because others swore by it and I regret committing to it as I have a lot of problems, especially with clogging and the fact it damages so easily.


I would love to go to something else but I've already spent a lot of money on VMA and I must admit to being scared of going to something else in case I waste a lot more money. I guess I'll just have to splash out on lots of different stuff until I find one that works for me.

It is a very confusing issue, I can sympathise with Dean's plight

Inside the Armour
www.insidethearmour.com

I too have various pots for various reason! And Pactra OD still unopened (!) from 197..... (?)
Gone back to enamels for weathering, they don't dry too quick and I can always wash them off if wrong.

Agree with Chris M, AV is good but not tough!

Cheers
Andrew

I was introduced to Lifecolour a little over 10 years ago. Military Hobbies out of Markham, Ontario, was giving them away free when you purchased a certain dollar amount.

I had tried several colours from the range, and none would airbrush properly. Didn't matter what airbrush, whether I used used distilled H2O, etc..the paint would invariably clog on the tip. The paint itself was very fragile; flaking off at the slightest bump. Brush-painting yielded no better result. I really wanted these to work and I tried several combinations to apply them yet nothing worked.

So, when I hear more recent examples of guys being successful with them, it makes me wonder if the composition of the paint changed?

GD

I haven't found that I need "three or more coats", so I can't say what I would call such a paint.


Bruce Probst
Melbourne, Australia
My modelling portfolio:http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about22022.html

Bruce & others.

Re the opening post. My question was asked to establish if the LC paints I had were typically thin, or if I had a duff batch.

I only hand paint, I don't spray.

I asked the question simply to see what other people thought. This has been doubly confusing because some people said they were very good, others not. And a whole lot of comments were made about spraying.
So I was none the wiser.

Can anyonewho only hand paints give the LC range a thumbs up or athumbs down?
I am refering to coverage, not colour accuracy, as I don't want to open another can of worms.

(Mods. I felt the tone of Bruce's reply to be a little abrupt, but certainly NOT trolling. And I'm still not getting a ny notifications, can you help?)

is that LC is awesome for brush painting. Coverage is on par with vallejo model color and ease application flat out smokes Tamiya. Acryl colors are pretty much right on the money but brush painting not so much. The LC line of paints will cover almost all the colors we need for armour and if you need to mix them to tailor a better match there will be no issues.
I thin with water to make washes, filters, and sponge work. I feel for sponge chipping it is better than Vallejo as the build up lays down tighter to the surface, whereas Val. because it has the vinyl tends to build up more texture.
Spraying; LC is nice, its coverage and ability to very transparency rocks. Downside is it is soft and care MUST be taken in handling the model. Acryl I have found is soft too. The best for durability is Xtracrylix by far, and second to that is Vallejo. For certian subjects Tamiya mixed with the yellow cap thinner is probly the best, cons you better be good at mixing colors to get what you want.
Hope this helps.

SD

Hello

I can only state my own experience with Lifecolor with "German WWII Tank Sets 1 & 2", and a few extra random coloured pots I picked up cheap at a show.

I found Lifecolor paint will not form a coat if sprayed directly on shiny bare plastic, it beads (I posted a query to this effect more than 2 years ago in this forum). But if an undercoat of enamel is applied first, the Lifecolor applies to that with no problem.

I have found it needs to be thinned to spray well , I just use trial & error adding extra drops of water & test spraying till its right so can't give a precise ratio of water/paint mix.

When you get the mix right I have found it almost problem free to spray with, producing great results, particularly for fine, light camo patterns.

I also found it hand brushes well for painting small objects/figures, and mixes well with Lifecolor white to produce lighter shades.

My Lifecolor paints are not as thick as any enamel (for example Modellmaster, Revell or Humbrol) but are not really thin either, being thicker than milk, but more watery than "lite" cream.

Neil