Does anyone know if it is possible to view the exhibits moved from APG to Fort Lee, Virginia? I have not been able to discover any information.

Dak

Everyone meets his Waterloo, the trick is to be Wellington, not Napoleon.

When the vehicles first arrived at Fort Lee, they were outside along a rail siding (and visible through the trees from a public highway - and VERY visible once on post.

However, within the past year or so the vast majority have been moved into large maintance shelters (read - huge tents) inside a secure motorpool area. Thus, are not visible to the casual observer, even once on post.(Perhaps 4 of the vehicles are still outside, and but for Leopold, the other three are in front of the Ordnance School, on a portion of the base where photography is discouraged. I photographed the M32A1B3 for AFV Modeller a year or so ago, and that required an escort, and a watchful eye as to which way I pointed the camera - hence the reason there were a limited number of views in that article.)

My understanding is that the "Ordance Museum" proper is not yet open at Fort Lee, hence this is not an open to the public area.

Hope this helps,
David Doyle

Hi,

The last time I was at APG there were still a number of large items at the APG lot. I may get a chance to go up there in a few weeks. I will certainly bring back news of what is still there.

Also, it is important to note that the BRAC move that funded the transfer of items did just that...and only that. It will take another funding effort to actually get any kind of museum building or infrastructure established. To put it bluntly, I don't believe the Army has alotted the first penny to any part of the effort to establish an ordinance museum. I would love to learn otherwise. Also, realize that any musuem would be considered a tool for Army Instruction. With the funding situation the Army currently faces, the Ordnance Museum we modelers might hope and long for just ain't in the cards. I first visited the APG Musuem in 1973. I am going to be 50 soon. I sincerely hope I will see a new Ordnance Museum in Petersburg prior to building the last model in my stash....sometime in the next century.

In the meantime, plan on attending the American Wartime Museum Open House in Nokesville, VA on 18/19 August. There the vehicles will run!

Cheers,

Richard

Is one giant mess...I'd like to know who approved of doing all the improvements on APG without improving the roads outside of it to access it! They are just now working on just improving an intersection to access APG, nearly 2 years after the majority of the BRAC was done.

As for funding for moving vehicles...I think that got pulled sooner then expected. For example the IJA Type 89 has a block painted on it that has FY11 on, which I'm assuming means when it would be moved...and its still sitting there. The last big move of vehicles happened 2011 (think was early spring, was still cold out)...the Mile of Tanks that used to be at the main gate and a couple US tanks like the T23 got moved either to Fort Lee or got scrapped.

Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.

Canceling real property projects is usually more expensive than completing that project. For instance, the brand new commissary at Fort Devens was completed long after the last military family departed and the majority of the post turned over to private developers, the state and to the Reserves.

It never opened as a commissary, instead, as soon as it was completed (complete with all fixtures to make it a grocery store), it was turned over to another contractor who turned it into a Reserve training division headquarters building.

The cost to cancel the project cost the government more than it would be to just complete the project, and in the end the government does end up with a fully finished building instead of some partially completed structure. The cancellation costs normally go to the contractor and subcontractors for work they would have done.

Yes, BRAC was a mess, but when many of the projects were submitted pre-BRAC, no one knew entire installations that had been around for generations would begin to close.

RobG

The improvements I'm talking about where supposed to be done by the surrounding community at APG, not APG itself, which is more or less done outside of moving the vehicles out of whats left of the Ordnance museum. Its rather frustrating that the surrounding communities didn't have their acts together prior to the BRAC happening, outside of the developers, who are paying dearly for the non-migration of workers from Fort Monmouth to APG. The vast majority of workers are staying in Jersey (because of the real estate market or family things) and are only coming down for the work week or doing a 12 hour or so day with a 2 hour ride on the bus...a rough way to make a living!

Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.

they probably got hit hard as a main source of their revenue (Soldiers, government workers, contractors, families) evaporated before the arrival of the new source of revenue (Monmouth workers). It's easy to see why the local communities were hesitant to spend funds on improvements; there is always the uncertainty that the inbound BRAC activities don't arrive, get diverted, deactivate, stay put, etc.

No one wants to spend money building roads to an installation until they are sure that the installation will continue to be an installation.

RobG