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Oh boy, let me grab a cup of coffee and a cigarette

July 15 2012 at 2:50 PM
ralph persico  (Login RalphPersico60)
Missing-Lynx members
from IP address

Response to from one expert to another about German Piping (branch) color

Hi Jim, here's what I have according to reference from Michael Pruett and Bob Edwards. I've tried to keep this as short and to the point as I could.

Pionier Abteilungen
"As far as your first question goes I, myself, would have to assume that being engineers the black waffenfarbe would be fielded, with possibly "the radio operator patch" on the uniform sleeve."
The panzerpionier tank crews of special modified tanks called "Zerstorerpanzer" fielded black or the modified black & white waffenfarbe on their black panzerjacke as did the vehicle radio operator and radio operators of halftrack crews fielding the standard field-grey uniform. This would be the reason for my assumption. If anyone has further ref's please feel free to correct.

Aufklarung Abteilungen
The waffenfarbe of the recon units was changed a least 4 times before and during the war, ranging from rose pink, golden yellow and copper brown. The recon and later designated armored recon of the 1.through 5.Panzer Divs fielded rose pink of the armored branch of panzertuppen throughout the war, with the exception of Recon Battalion 1 / 3.Panzer Div which fielded golden yellow waffenfarbe from 1941-43

As far as the 1940 date you inquire about.
- The leichte Division's formed during 1937-38 as a result of the motorization of the calvary, were each equipped with a recon regiment with two organic battalions. The soldiers of these units fielded golden yellow waffenfarbe, be it to their origins in the calvary.
- On July 31, 1938 (Heeresmitteilungen 38, Nr.495)Motorized troops and the calvary were reorganized and combined under the designation of "schnelle truppen" all motoriized recon battalions were now ordered to field golden yellow waffenfarbe of the cavalry
- July 6, 1938 the waffenfarbe of the motorized recon battalions was changed to copper brown. Some units coverted and others ignored the order.
- On Oct. 28, 1941 (Heeresmitteilungen 41, Nr.1069) all Kradschutzen units were ordered to field copper brown as their merging with the motorized recon units into the Panzer and Motorized Infantry Divs.
- Then another change on March 25, 1943. The term "Schnelle Truppen" was discontinued and all mobile and armored troops reorganized as Panzertruppen. All armored recon units were to now field rose pink waffenfarbe.
- Then once more on Nov.29, 1944 the armored recon units waffenfarbe was officially changed to golden yellow.

Edwards and Pruett also make note that officers and enlisted men often ignored the order of changing their waffenfarbe and continued to wear the waffenfarbe that they wear originally issued.

Now if you seek a specific recon or aufklarung abteilung waffenfarbe and the date it was fielded I'd be happy to give you that info as Edwards and Pruett give these ref's but just for recon units.

I have to go to my nephews birthday so I'll have to post the motorcycle troops (Kradschutzen) waffenfarbe ref's at another time.

I just like to say in closing that the two books on German uniforms by Michael Pruett and Bob Edwards are indespensible and in my opinion priceless.
These two gentlemen have really done they're homework. I recommend these books to anyone who wants to further their knowledege on German Wehrmacht uniforms during WW2 and also for The Waffen SS I recommend any of the books by Michael Beaver.

Hope this helps you out a bit, Jim

- ralph

"Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the willingness to walk through it."

This message has been edited by RalphPersico60 from IP address on Jul 16, 2012 6:34 PM

 Respond to this message   

  1. specific details - Jim reese on Jul 16, 2012, 6:00 PM
    1. Aufklarung Abt. 2 - ralph persico on Jul 16, 2012, 8:01 PM
      1. thank you - jim reese on Jul 17, 2012, 2:19 PM
        1. I should have mentioned this... - ralph persico on Jul 18, 2012, 7:03 PM
          1. I noticed that - jim reese on Jul 19, 2012, 2:15 PM
            1. Re: I noticed that - ralph persico on Jul 20, 2012, 6:14 AM

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