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number of ammo pouches on US soldiers during wwII and Korea

January 2 2011 at 10:00 AM
Ole Saeterboe  (Login olesaeter)
Missing-Lynx members
from IP address 62.50.185.91

what is the correct/normal number of ammo pouches around the waist for a soldier with a M1 garand? Was it always 10 as seen on pictures or was it normal with some deviation from it.
I have the DML US marines Chosin reservoir set. And the total number of ammo pouches for the M1 Garands there are 16 is it some just mistake from DML or?

What about the
M1 carbine
M1 Thompson smg
Bar
M1911 pistol


best regards

Ole Sćterbř

 
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AuthorReply
Ed Gilbert
(Login oscar_gilbert)
Missing-Lynx members
173.184.21.176

There was an "official" number, but

January 2 2011, 1:31 PM 

such things quickly fall by the wayside in practice.

I've got an old copy of the Handbook For Marines that shows the "official" 782 gear layout of that era, but it's at my other office.

782 gear was unit-specific issue, and there were always variations. Some units ran short of items, others had a glut of extras. Gear got lost or worn out. Some men scavenged extras. Corpsmen in particular scavenged them for carrying battle dressings. In both cases they were easily obtained from the issue gear of casualties. Many men preferred to stuff their pockets with ammunition instead, but most extra ammo was carried in the cloth bandoliers (also used to carry battle dressings) that came in the ammo cans.

Botom line: don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

 
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Jeff Flint
(Login JEFlint)
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56.0.143.23

M1 Garand and BAR belt

January 2 2011, 3:07 PM 

The Garand and BAR belts had a fixed number of pouches. It wasn't something that you could add or subtract if so desired. Here are some pics:

M1 Cartridge belt:
[linked image]

BAR belt:

[linked image]


 
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Jeff Flint
(Login JEFlint)
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56.0.143.23

Delete

January 2 2011, 3:07 PM 

Fat fingered the "Post" button.


    
This message has been edited by JEFlint from IP address 56.0.143.23 on Jan 2, 2011 3:08 PM


 
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(Login chicoutimi)
Missing-Lynx members
24.200.122.230

Other pouches

January 2 2011, 4:34 PM 

Ole,

As Jeff pointed out, the standard rifleman and automatic (BAR) rifleman belts had 10 and 6 fixed hodling pouches respectively. The pouches were integral parts of the belts and could not be removed.

There were however no standard "pouch" belts for the other weapons you mention. Specific "attachable" or "slip-on" pouches were issued for the M1 Carbine, the M1A1 submachine gun and the M1911 pistol. These were designed to be attached to the standard, pouch-less pistol belt.

In the case of the M1A1, or Thompson SMG, there were two types of magazine pouches, namely a six-pouch rig for the shorter 20-round box mags and a three-pouch rig for the longer - and heavier - 30-round round mags. Below are links to examples of either type (from "At The Front" and the "Alibaba.com" websites):

[linked image]
[linked image]

There was also a single-pouch variant designed to be carried by means of a shoulder strap, and usually issued to airborne troops during WWII (photo from the "At The Front" store webite):

[linked image]

Ammunition pouches for the M1 Carbine and M1911 pistol used a similar two-pocket design with single flap. In the case of the M1911 pistol, you'd normally see only one such pouch worn on the front of the belt, opposite the field dressing pouch (photo from "5th Ranger Battalion" website):

[linked image]

Note that there were a number of variants of the above, with pointed or rounded flap, and with one or two "snap-stud" fasteners.

The M1 carbine ammo pouch was also a slip-on design intended to be worn on the belt, but the loop on the back was large enough to allow the pouch to be slipped onto the butt of the carbine, which was common practice in the field. In was slightly "stubbier" in appearance than the M1911 pistol mag pouch (photo from "At The Front" website):

[linked image]

Of course, by the 50's (Korea), the M2 Carbine (M1 with full-auto mode and 30-round "banana" mag) was replacing the M1 in frontline unit, and thus a new, longer single-pouch mag was issued to accomdate four of the larger mags (photo from the "J. Murray Inc." website):

[linked image]

Hope this helps.



Hervé "Charby" Charbonneau
Chicoutimi QC
Canada


    
This message has been edited by chicoutimi from IP address 24.200.122.230 on Jan 3, 2011 12:35 PM


 
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(Login gary.binder)
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198.203.245.8

pistols, etc...

January 3 2011, 8:56 AM 

by the way, the common "issue" with the .45 automatic pistol was two or three magazines - one in the weapon and two in the pouch at the web belt. Soldiers may carry more or less in the field, but that is what was received with the issue of the pistol.


 
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Ed Gilbert
(Login oscar_gilbert)
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76.31.231.238

Handbook for Marines

January 3 2011, 9:02 PM 

The Marines' "Bible" shows the official marching pack and field marching pack rig for the M1-armed rifleman as a five-clip pouch set on either side in front, canteen right hip (more often two were carried, one on each hip), first-aid packet center rear, bayonet attached to the left-rear of the haversack, and e-tool to the center of the haversack. The lensatic compass and knife (not official issue) usually went right front and right side, respectively. Photos show men with a single five-clipmo pouch on the right side, with first aid pack to the left.When available, extra ammo pouches might be slung like bandoliers.

BAR men were similar, but carried two large pouches on either side in front, cleaning and maintenmance kit to rear, and typically had bandoliers with extra packets.

With that said, remember that the system was extremely flexible, and as noted elsewhere Erwin Rommel expressed admiration for the modular system. In practice the individual could hang things where he pleased

 
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(Login FergusonSM)
Missing-Lynx members
64.188.243.198

As it should be save the 1st aid pouch

January 3 2011, 9:51 PM 

"With that said, remember that the system was extremely flexible, and as noted elsewhere Erwin Rommel expressed admiration for the modular system. In practice the individual could hang things where he pleased"

I never liked how some CSM who wont be using my gear tells me how it should be set up. What looks good and is uniform doesn't work for everyone. The only exception is the 1st aid pouch, no need to fart around trying to find it when your friend is bleeding.
Its getting better these days. But my gut tells me those days will return with a vengence when things finally cool off.

A US veteran is someone who, at one point, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.'

 
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