I was having a big chat on the NF Pony Forum about the genetical difference between Dun and Buckskin colouring, and where blue eyed creams come from!
A suggestion was made that we should have a Dun/Buckskin appreciation post.
I posted photos as examples - in error on the NF Pony forum as several of my examples are miniatures not NF Ponies, so a big sorry to be said to Steve for not following the criteria.
My enthusiasm for the subject got in the way of the Forum rules - SORRY!!
I will start with my duns/buckskins, now let's see all of your lovely pictures too!!!
There are the most fantastic variations in these colours, all of which I think are GORGEOUS!!
So often the winter version is more colorful than the summer coat, or at least VERY different.

Shamal as a baby - dun


Shamal in his winter woollies!- dun


Storm, Shamal's Mum, now sold and winning in Ireland! - dun


Magic as a baby - buckskin


Magic changing colour - buckskin


Magic's sire - Roo - buckskin


Oakfield Magnum - New Forest Pony dun colt as a baby with both of his parents


Oakfield Magnum aged 2.5 months


Oakfield Magnum aged 4 months - really changing colour now


Now it's your turn!

People on here have seen this piccy before but I dont care, I loved him to bits x

Haven't got any pics but when I was little there was a dun pony at my stables called Tigger. He was one of my favorites but I couldn't ride him as for some reason his saddle rubbed my knees.

I bought a little buckskin/dun mare from BR in August 06. She was 7 years old and unhandled but a friend and I broke her in and subsequently sold her on. Last I heard she was in Lincolnshire.

Lola (Denny Lusty)







I used to have a handle on life but it broke!

Lovely photo's!! and Nicky I havnt seen that photo before, its fantastic!!!!!

Kate

Okay Aud, not nearly as classy as yours but here is fatso Flint - Buckskin



And Flint (on left) with friend Tiggy both rising 2 and in winter woolies - both Buckskin



Coming to a National Park near you!

www.forestuprising.org.uk

e-mail forestuprising@live.co.uk

I feel left out... not sure if my palomino dun would count...... lol

But Aud.... i want to steal your mini stallion.... you wouldn't miss him would you?? lol


RIP Halo - 1998 - 2006. Miss you always.

My little horrors darlings.

Sally e-mailed this little 'un, is a Haywards foal, so will leae her to add details when she is on next :-)xx

.

My new foal, i need naming help, what does everyone think he looks like?

What a fabulous range of shades of these colours you have posted.
Do keep adding them on, it is wonderful to see all of your beautiful equine friends!
If you saw my stallion now in his winter woollies, covered in mud, you would laugh out loud, but that is the joy of our horses.
The private scruff buckets that we all know and love who then turn into the most beautiful creatures for either the show or competition ring and make us proud whether they do well or not.
I have one miniature which I had to take advice over - colour wise. She is now registered as a Buckskin roan with spotted characteristics!!!

Boo in the summer -


Boo in the autumn -


Boo in the winter -


It is like have 3 different horses in one!!!

Come on everyone, lots more photos please!!!!

My friends pony, Toyhorse Lord Baltazar aka Tommy that I showed for her.

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Hawksworth Dungood-Buckskin Welsh Section A 2 yr old colt

No dun or buckskin, but I'd like to breed a buckskin out of my perlino mare.

This is Longmead Silver. 7yo NF.

i love flint hes so sexy. cheryl can i have him?

I love duns (and I don't see why we can't still use the term 'dun' to describe the outward appearance and have two different words for the two different genetic colours).

Glenwestcastle Little Miss Thyme, cream dun, Highland Champion at Windsor 2008:



Merrie Motivator, winner 2/3yo NF colt class at NF Show 2008, described as dun in catalogue and I'm happy with that



Harriet and foal Heather, cream dun Highlands:



and Harriet in her winter woollies:

I don't think that anyone has said that your "dun" can't be called dun, Judy, have they?

This whole discussion stemmed from the fact that dun breeds potential dun, whereas a true buckskin can throw you a double dilute with all of the different colours within that gene pool.

Some people did not understand the science and therefore the difference between the 2 colours as they can be so similar to look at.

I chose a buckskin stallion on purpose as both true dun and buckskin are my personal favourite colours.

The following link has some wonderful explanations on colour genetics in plain English for those who are interested.
http://www.seaspiritoftheforest.co.uk/equine/HorseColoursAndMarkings.html

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my lovely nf buckskin mare!
although thought she was a dun until rightfully corrected a couple of weeks ago!!!

I don't have a dun Audrey (or a buckskin), but yes, there are a couple of people who come on here (I'm surprised they haven't appeared on this post yet ) who get upset when anyone calls a buckskin a dun


http://forestuprising.org.uk" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://nfstallions.info/                   http://forestuprising.org.uk/

My lil baby :D

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hehe chicken :D he isnt fazed by anything
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and out of the forest 2 months ago with mum
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he has no dorsal stripe at the mo

i have a white pony

This one is the buckskin colt produced this year by the pretty broody I have on loan.

Very nice, can you keep him??

I believe we have had the dun and buckskin debate months ago and am sure (if I can put a photo on here of my 'Dun' Connie)many people have seen him before.







Both this photos taken on same day so just goes to show what shade and light does to the colour of him. Also in the winter he is more pale and in the summer goes more yellowy.

Can i email someone my picture of my baby breeze and let me know what you think?

I belive she is a dun colour as she has a dorsal stripe down her back and also have some features of a dun on her, well the colour

Nikki

Hey Nikki, you can email one to me and i'll post it for you, or i can get one from you facebook if you like.

xx

faye what is your email addy and i will send a few pics to you

Nikki

Hi, I've quite often read your posts and couldn't resist responding to this one and sharing some piccies of my gorgeous girlie!!. This is Lovelyhill Dunday (Lexi to her friends!) as a foal at the Lovelyhill stud in the New Forest. She is by Burley Hallmark out of Yewtree Loveday.
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and then at her first show this summer as a yearling

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This was just a few weeks later but on a sunny day

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HI 'lexi' looks great! is that 'romeo' in the background behind her? hows he doing?

Hi Erika, yeah thats him!! He's doing great, always makes me smile! I think he's going through a bit of a teenage phase at the moment - keeps having thoughts of rebellion but he's not very good at it!! He's too sweet to be naughty really but I think he feels like he ought to have a go!! Now that they're a bit bigger I think we may have a go at integrating them with my sisters 2 geldings who will hopefully be good 'uncles'! Hope you are all well
p.s. I've seen some of the piccies of this years foals and they look gorgeous - my sister has to keep tabs on me so that I don't start a collection!!

I have a colt by hallmark but he is palamino. did you give her the name Lexi? as the mare of my colt was called lexi.

Lovely to see what other offspring of his are like, cant wait for my boy to grow up.

georgie and linzi my foal (above somewhere) is related to yours. His dam Burey Dunlin is a full sister to Burley Hallmark, so we have cousins!

how did mine turn out a pally!! lol. i love him dearly ( i keep saying hes mine but really he is my oh, the first pony he has ever owned!)


i will try and get some recent pics of him as the ones i have really dont do him much justice (plus i had beter not post them on this thread as its for duns/buckskins)

I suppose the pointed comment about dun & buckskin upsetting people if the terms are interchanged is aimed at me.

I think it would be a bit strong to say I get upset, but I undoubtedly do get frustrated.

Dun & buckskin are not the same thing.  Genetic terms make that very clear.  They are totally different genes, tho a horse may carry both.  They are not interchangeable terms.

I own both duns & buckskins.  I would like more people to understand what they truly have - even on this thread, there are several buckskins being described as duns.

http://www.varkiesstud.co.uk

Dear Varkie.
I started this thread with no axe to grind what so ever against any one, or any animal.
I only started in horses once my husband left the Army, and my first foal, Boo was a buckskin miniature horse.
The lady that I purchased her from is really "into" her genetics, and I listened to her for hours explaining to me the differences between the two sets of genetics, how dun comes about, what a dilute is etc.
I find it truly fascinating.
I then bought a true dun miniature mare, and she threw me a dun colt.
I have an American buckskin stallion, they are all on here somewhere. Sadly Boo lost her first foal this year, she is now 5, but had it lived it was a beautiful little (double dilute)palomino filly.
My OH wanted to have some New Forest Ponies, and so we began to look at ponies and take an interest in their bloodlines etc,.
I was the one that got her head chopped off for daring to question the background genetics of some of the ponies that we went to see, and I decided just to call them all "forest duns" as that seemed to cause less offence.
I still do not understand why there is so much opposition in the New Forest Pony world to accepting that a great many of the "forest duns" are actually buckskins, as I think that it is the most fabulous colour. One of my personal favourites!
It is just my personal opinion that it is important to know what genetic colour your pony is so that were you to wish to breed from that pony and you did not wish to breed the double dilute colours (palomino, cremello, perlino etc), that knowledge could help you to choose to breed with a colour that would reduce that risk.
I have nothing against any of these colours, although I have seen some blue eyed miniatures struggling with bright sunlight in the summer, with weeping eyes etc.
Again, I do not understand the science of blue eyes, but if you do I would love to hear from you.
I am a firm believer that if you are armed with knowledge based on science it makes for better decisions and less unexplained surprises.
Please accept this post for exactly what is says in the title, a chance to show off our gorgeous dun and buckskin 4 legged friends and not a dig at anyone!!!!!!

I fully accept what you say - and my comments were no more about what you'd originally posted, than yours were aimed at me.  I was referring to a later statement.

I guess people see my passion for correct definition & education in colour genetics as my being pedantic.  It isn't that - I am truly fascinated by colour genetics, and have a particular fascination with duns (true duns) tho I do also own a buckskin.  And some of the (just to really complicate things) dunskins I have seen have been incredibly striking!  I just would like it if we could all talk in the same terms on colour genetics, and given that the scientists have already laid terms down, it would be easier to stick with these, hence my obsession with duns/buckskins.

What would you like to know about the 'blue eyed creams' - which will either be cremellos or perlinos?  Cremello being two copies of cream on a chestnut base, perlino being two copies of cream on a bay base, smokey cream being two copies of cream on a black base.  Looking at the single dilutes, palomino is one copy of cream on chestnut, buckskin is one copy of cream on bay, smokey black is one copy of cream on black.

http://www.varkiesstud.co.uk

My question was more the colour of the eyes and not the colour of the coat.
You weren't by any chance the lady who spoke to me at Wilverley Plain were you, I was there with my little in foal buckskin mare called Boo, she is a miniature horse in her winter woolies. She chatted genetics to me and was obviously very knowledgeable as Boo carries some unusual colours and has spotted characteristics too!
I went all of the way to Belgium to buy a blue eyed silver dapple with appaloosa spots, but could not get my head round whether he would throw blue eyes on my traditional coloured mares' foals, so came home empty handed.
He has grown up into a stunning stallion, I keep an eye on his progress on his current owners website.
Do the blue eyes cause health problems, or are they not effected by bright sunlight?
I have seen/heard that some have trouble in bright sunlight.
Silverado as a foal

Silverado as an adult

wow stunning colour

Oh dear, what a numpty I am, I start a post on Duns and Buckskins and go and post a silver dapple/appaloosa with blue eyes!
Sorry everyone, got carried away on the double dilute issue and totally lost the point.
I will leave him on here as long as no one objects, although a whole post on blue eyes could throw up some interesting opinions!

leave him there Aud he is stunning :D

Nobody has a problem what colour you call your ponies but surely within a breed ie new forest you are breeding a breed and not colour!

Willoway Soloman - Welsh D dun or bucksin?

Sorry if pic isn't too good!! Its taken me near on 3/4 hour how to figure out how to get it on, And this photo is from August 1991 and i was aged 14. This was my first pony a New Forest, I got her when i was 1 years old and had her up until she died when i was 18! She was the best pony ever (naturally!!)

I will be collecting my foal in this colour catagary on wed.She is by Burley Hallmark out of Yewtree Suede.My computer skills are not up to pictures but I will try to get one on soon.I have been waiting along time for a foal as last year I was not able to get Jade in foal so I have bought Flo instead.

I'm not sure where Wilverley Plain is, so don't think that was me.  :D

I'm not sure about blue eyes - some cremello breeders say they have no problems at all, others admit they do seem to struggle.  Not having owned one myself, I'm not too sure on this issue.  Juries still out.  Lol!

Silver Dapple - beautiful colour, would love to have a silver dapple shetland, but while they do appear possible, they are incredibly rare.  Not managed to find one yet that met all my other requirements which must come before colour.

Willoway Soloman - Welsh D dun or bucksin? - Buckskin I'm afraid - there are no known dun welsh of any section.

http://www.varkiesstud.co.uk