How I got my first inch of growth (started Sept 06):

Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) applied days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day

My current program:

Natural Progesterone cream (40mg) days 12-28 of cycle
Whey protein drinks (20g) 2x per day
Maca root powder (1/2 tbsp) 1 x per day
Pure Cocoa butter and Vit. E oil massage (5 min) 2x per day
Borage oil (240GLA) 1x per day
Vitex Angus Castus extract (30 drops) 2x per day

Exercises for chest:
Push ups (20 reps) 2 - 3 x per week
Bench press (3 sets of 20 reps) 1 - 2 times per week

Ht: 5'7"
Wt: 130 - 135lbs
Body fat: 18-20%
Age: 44
Non-smoker, non-drinker
Activity level -high (exercise instructor working out 3 - 4 hours per day, 5 days a week)

Size before starting NBE: 31" under bust, 33" over bust
(almost no breast tissue - from the side my breast bone stuck out further than my breasts!)

Current size: 31" under bust, 34 1/4" over bust (breast tissue filling out the breast more - from side the breasts now protrude further than the breast bone. Yahoo!)

I used to always wonder why I was as small breasted as I was. None of the women in my family was small breasted, in fact they were the opposite, C and D cups. I was a 'late bloomer', but I remember my breasts beginning to develop. Then they just stopped growing. I had normal periods. I have never been pregnant, so I don't know if I am fertile or not, but I always presumed I was. Although I have never been overly fat, I have also never been dangerously thin. It was a mystery why I did not have breasts.

I began to read about hormone imbalances about the same time I discovered NBE. I am a very health conscious person and I was researching the safety of Bountiful Breast pills when I discovered the Estrogen Dominance quiz. Boy did that hit home. So did the Adrenal Fatigue and Thyroid Imbalance quiz. You name it and it seemed I had the hormone imbalance. I found a great book: 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause" by Dr. John Lee. That book gave me the courage to try natural progesterone cream and once I did -boop- out came my breasts.

So what went wrong in the first place? Stress. When my breasts were first developing as I was going through puberty, my family life was stressful. Very stressful. This stress caused my body to create and release cortisol. This used up all the available progesterone (which is used to make cortisol) so I did not have enough for breast growth. Because my diet was nutritionally poor I did not get enough protein to help me rebuild the progesterone. This created an early Estrogen Dominance which affected my thyroid. My thyroid disorder also depressed protein building and thus my progesterone could never recover. Since I have lived a rather stressed out life I was always using up the progesterone to build cortisol. My body could never find its balance - I had multiple symptoms as a result.

Once I began to use progesterone - wow what a difference. It didn't just affect my breasts - it has been a body wide improvement.

Here are the other healthy things I do that positively affect NBE:

Multivitamin
Cod liver oil
Vitamin C

Organic foods - especially organic meats, eggs and butter

Stress reduction - exercise, imagery, meditation, prayer, laughter

Reducing xenoestrogens - avoiding plastics, pesticides, animal products that have antibiotics or hormones, polyester clothing, solvents and adhesives, synthetic hormones (birth control pills), emulsified soaps...

Positive thinking and reinforcement - I believe I can create change. I read accounts of those who are creating change. I research about NBE. I read the forum frequently. I stay open minded about what may help. I am thrilled at my progress and look forward to more.

I never really knew what size I was. I knew I wasn't an A cup, but that was about it. Since starting NBE, the horrible truth was revealed.

Starting at 31" under bust and 33" over bust:

Hmm, let's see... 31+5 = 36 band size. In order to be a 36A, I would have to measure 37 over the bust... 36 over bust would be 36aa, 35 over bust would be 36aaa, 34 over bust would be a 36aaaa, 33 over bust would be a 36aaaaa????

Okay, so let's measure me differently. If I put the tape measure above my breasts, under my armpits I come out to a 34. (ignore the fact that 34 bras keep me from breathing)
In order to be a 34A, I would have to measure 35 over the breast... so this would make me... a 34aaa.

My current measurements are 31 under and 34 1/4 over:

If I gain 2 3/4 more inches I will be a 36A
If I gain 3 3/4 more inches I will be a 36B
Just 4 3/4 more to a C!!!
and for only 5 3/4 more gain - I can be a D cup!!!!!!

Ha ha ha! Yeah that's my goal! I'm shooting for the full moon. Positive thinking all the way! I'm gonna be a D cup!!! ;D

Note to self:

Just a reminder not to start the progesterone cream until day 12 of cycle. I started on day 8 of last cycle and had extreme estrogen symptoms (PMS, breast tenderness, fluid retention, anxiety and a heavy period). Reading Dr. Lee's book told me the reason.

Since progesterone is used by the body to suppress ovulation in the second ovary (once ovulation has occurred), I inadvertantly prevented ovulation in both ovaries. It is after ovulation that the ovary makes progesterone from the corpus luteum (the cyst the egg comes from). So I prevented my body from giving me progesterone. DOH!

I switched my vitex from a liquid extract to an herbal pill. The extract did not tell me how much vitex I was getting. The pill is 400mg and I take it 2x per day.

Getting more headaches and my allergies are bad. Estrogen's nasty shadow is upon me. I hope the vitex kicks in soon because waiting to day 12 before I get relief from mean old Estro is a pain!

Although I have in the past used psyllium husk fiber, I have fallen off the wagon. I need to increase fiber in my diet to help create hormonal balance.

Now adding:

1 - 2 TBSP psyllium husk (2 x per day in each protein drink)

I don't know if these measuring techniques work too well. For example, my ribcage measures 27inches, and my fullest part measured 31inches. So my bra size should have been a AA. I don't believe that because I've always worn an A and some B's in 32. There's no way I am a 32aa, that would mean, no breast tissue at all. If you look at my pics, I do have some breast tissue. So I wouldn't solely go by measurements.

Anyway, I have to say, by reading your posts, that you are one of the most obsessed sisters on here. You sure do a lot of research. Keep it coming girl, cuz I'm a little too lazy to read up too much on anything. So thank you for keeping us informed.

Happy boobie journey.

Chocmorsel,
Ha, ha, yeah I have really gone over the top with my new 'hobby'.

Yeah, I am also obsessed about bras. I guess all these years of having absolutely nothing to put in any bra has left me with a lot of breast envy. The sites I would check that after I entered my stats that told me 'you don't need a bra' made me so MAD. I NEED a bra! More importantly I need the boobs that go in a bra.

I really am a 36 band size. Actually I use a bra extender in my 36 band, but maybe it's because I don't like to feel squeezed around my ribcage. Maybe if I could wear a bra that didn't have so much padding it would make a difference. My current 'fakes' are a pair of cute 34a push up padded bras that I sort of kind of fill. I have to use the bra extender and put up with a tight chest - but hey - this is as close to natural as I have been willing to go in years.

By the way - you are georgeous! If I could only get to your starting size I would be so thrilled. I cannot believe you are anything under a B cup. I envy your rib cage as well. If I were able to remove a couple of my ribs perhaps I could get to a better cup size... lol.

Thanks woman,
Keep up the good work with the information. Just wanted to let you know that measurement techniques don't always add up and don't look at the numbers too much. Go more by the bra's even though some tend to vary.

Happy boobie journey.

Stopped using the Maca. There seemed to be no breast results with it at the amount I was taking. I decided to stop because SOMETHING is making my butt grow...:o

If maca had done to my boobs what I think it has done to my butt, I would be mighty pleased. Just tried on some cold weather clothes from last year and my how they have shrunk in the seat area. My body weight is about the same, so it isn't body fat all over that has changed. I am trying to grow boobie, not bootie...;)

Also, my breath stinks. My husband mentioned it to me the other day that my morning breath really stinks up a room now, when before he had never noticed my breath.

So, bad breath and bigger butt - not exactly the attractive qualities I am going for. Maybe it is not the maca, but that is the only thing I take that I think is unessential. If things improve then I will know it was the culprit.

With luck, my breath will sweeten and those fat cells will take a trip north to boobieville...lol

I decided to take borage oil capsule with my evening vitamins, which makes my total 2 capsules of 240 GLA per day.

Just did my new years day measurements.

Weight: 135 lbs
Bust: 34 1/4
Waist: 27 1/2 (aaaahhhhh!)
Hips: 37 1/2 (aaaahhhh!}

I am up from last year by an inch and a half in waist and hips. Most of that increase has been since November. Damn you Maca!!!!!! (see me shaking fist)

But I am also up an inch and a quarter in my boobs since September. God bless you NBE!

My body goals are to bring the weight down to 127 (just because I like that number). Decrease waist to 26 and hips to 36. Increase bust to 36.

I have a year to complete these goals so there is no pressure.

Current program:

Natural Progesterone cream (Now brand): 30 mg per day (days 12 - 28 of cycle)-applied to thin skinned areas
Whey protein drinks: 20 grams twice a day
Borage oil: 240mg GLA twice a day
Vitex angus castus: (extract 200mg, herb 300 mg) 3 x per day
Milk Thistle: 70mg twice a day
Cod liver oil: (Twinlab Norwegian) 6 softgels per day
Vitamin C: 2000 - 6000 mg per day

Massage with Cocoa butter & vit E: 5 min twice per day
Every 3rd day: Progesterone cream applied to breast as massage (-no increase in dosage -I use my regular dosage on the breast to reduce the fibrocystic problem in my right breast)

Exercise: Push ups and Bench press as before.

Decided to use just 20mg of progesterone cream per day this cycle (the maintenance dosage). I am not experiencing as much estrogen dominance symptoms as before. I seem to have stabilized from my bodies initial reaction to the progesterone (estrogen receptors getting activated). Perhaps the vitex is beginning to kick in, but it is still early for that to be in full effect.

I am much more aware of my breast when I am sleeping now. There is this roll of 'breast' in the upper part of my chest that is noticible when I am on my side that was never there before. I am also feeling 'mushed' when I am on my side - having to rearrange my arms all the time. I can't say there is much increase as far as a tape measure can reveal. There is however constant change in the overall 'character' of my beasts. The upper part is starting to fill in more and more (someday my cleavage will come...). Don't get me wrong - I still haven't achieved aa yet and the A is still on the road ahead. Everything is proceeding nicely. I figure I have a lot to fill in since I started with little more than nipples on a chest wall. Happily, gone are the days when I could see my ribcage through the 'cleavage area'.

My 'buttage' has reduced a little since stopping Maca. I have probable lost a 'cup' size in the rear. My husband has not spoken of the dragon(breath) for a few weeks now. I am doing leg press at the gym to improve the rump and am noticing a nice uplift the the caboose. Alls well that ends well...

I hope you don't mind me posting a note here. I just wanted to tell you that I find your posts delightful. They are so hilarious everything you write just makes me laugh. I too, have some hypothyroid symptoms and have had terrible PMS in the past, also ditto on the stressful life thing. Life is good now tho'. Am feeling a little better now, on the herbs I am taking. I am really interested in your program though and anxious to see how the progesterone works for you.
Best wishes and thank you for sharing your wonderful sense of humor with all of us.

After reading some posts about Black Current Oil I noticed my store had some so I added to my 'collection'.

Currently taking:

Borage 300 GLA 1 gel in am
Cod liver oil 3 gels in am

Black Currant 500 1 gel in pm
Cod liver oil 3 gels in pm

My omega 3 fatty acid cup runneth over now. The cod liver oil also gives me Vitamin A and D.


Lassysam,
Glad you enjoy my posts. I am a big believer is stress reduction through laughter.

Hopefully my program will yeild big results, but quite honestly from where I started, just fitting into an A cup will be a BIG deal to me.

You know it really isn't fair that my rib cage is so gigantic. I read about all the smaller cages and am envious. Now if only I could find a painless and healthy way to drop a couple of ribs, I would be at my goal sooner... lol

I know, you are bothered by your rib cage, but you sound skinny to me! My ribs (33.5-34") are bigger than yours and I've got fat arms and legs to boot. I am a pear shape I guess (except add in some fat arms) I've decided that big boobs won't even look good on me unless I lose some weight. I am 5'.5" and weigh 147 lbs. I am going to keep up with the herbs, but really try to lose at least 7-8 lbs. Then if I can drop a few pounds I think I would try harder with the BE. I may also try those Goji Berries that were mentioned on the main thread. They are suppose to have anti aging effects. I am 37 yrs old, have 5 kids, 3 of which are teenagers who have given me lots of wrinkles and gray hair! I am trying to hold on to a bit of youth for a while longer. It would be nice to look decent while we go swimming this next summer. Even if you have small breasts, you look better because you are taller and more slender. I think that is something to feel good about. : )

Well, the 20 mg per day just has not worked as well for me. I had a lot of anxiety the days before I started on the cream (one of the symptoms the progesterone reduces). It was very hard for me to wait until day 12 of my cycle to start using the cream again.

I started using 20 mg in evening and another 20 mg in am. The effect on the anxiety was immediate, thank God.

Obviously the vitex is not kicking in yet. I am taking vitex chiefly to get me through from day 1 - 12 without climbing the walls. I still hold out hope it will even things out - after all the best results usually occur after the 3 month mark, and I am not there yet.

The 'butt' is still with me (sigh). It has reduced a little, but my side profile is still startling (a straight line from above becomes a boinging out boxcar below).
If only the 'chestal area' would hurry up and match it.

No increase up top lately. Quite frankly, until this hormone fluctuation gets under control I don't expect much change. I haven't massaged as much and have noticed a decrease in the 'fluffiness' up top, so I need to rededicate myself to massage.

Good news though, the fibrocyctic area in my right breast has reduced. I think the combination of massage and progesterone cream (applied to breasts every third day I use the cream) has done the job.

Hopefully by my next update I will be all sunshine and roses in the hormone department, swelling uptop in the boob department and substantially reduced in the caboose...

waxingmoon

wow, this certainly speaks volumes to me! my early teens were certainly quite stressful, and i was always quite a worry-wort, learning to manage anxiety very gradually only in the last 2-3 years.

hi, i hope you don't mind me posting in your program. i'm curious to know whether using progesterone cream has reduced luteal phase swelling and tenderness for you - it seems to have that effect on me... i'm still uncertain whether that's a good thing - i am hoping that perhaps i will see less of the usual shrinkage towards the end of my period... please let me know!

Hi lil dunny,
I don't mind if you post here. I don't check this topic as often as the main forum, so it took me a while to see your post.

As far a luteal swelling, the first couple of months I actually had more than before using progesterone cream. I think my body was so out of balance that progesterones activation of the estrogen receptors was rather extreme. My last two cycles I did not notice much swelling, but I have noticed continued changes in my breasts. I have also experienced short cycles, which is another estrogen dominance symptom. I am confident that my body will achieve balance eventually.

This month is the first I have felt ovulation symptoms since starting progesterone cream. I am unsure whether that was a direct reflection of the cream or more an age related slow down. I think that I stopped my higher doses of progesterone too soon in my program and that kept me from overcoming the estrogen dominance symptoms faster. Last month I increased my dosage back to between 30 - 40 mg of progesterone days 12 - 28. This month I will delay the cream until day 16 to give my body ample time to ovulate and create the progesterone producing corpus luteum. I will use 30 - 40 mg of progesterone per day again this month.

Quite frankly my biggest focus is still my health and getting the estrogen dominance under control. I can report that I have kept all my initial growth and my breasts seem to be filling out - but not in ways that can be measured on a tape. I haven't taken a picture in a while and I may do so soon to see if there is better evidence of growth.

I hope you are experiencing a lot of benefit from the progesterone cream. I think for some women it is a better way to go than using herbs that increase estrogen. We each have to figure out what is best for us.

Good luck with your growth,
waxingmoon

Wow have I been busy. Unfortunately not with NBE. I moved my business and have been dealing with the physical move and the additional financial stuff that goes with it. I wouldn't say there has been much stress... I would say there has been a whopping, gigantic, overwhelming amount of stress. But hey, in 3, maybe 4 years I am sure I will be over it all... Apparently, I have a leeetle problem with change.

So, since stressing and whining about the stress was more important to me, I have completely fallen off the massaging bandwagon (not enough time to do both apparently). I hereby renew my vow to massage the little rascals at least one time a day.

I did keep up my vitex regime and am continueing with the progesterone. The anxiety monkey has seemingly begun to let go of me - let's hope the little varmant goes away for good.

I need to re-up my whey protein. I dropped to just once a day in the am - need to have my pm drink as well. I also need to increase the vitamin C. After all, if I want to build a brick wall I've got to have bricks. (does anyone else have the 'she's a brick house' tune playing in thier head right now?)

Here is one really great change. The fibrocystic area in my right breast is G O N E !!!!!! When?? How?? I don't know. It was there in my last post, now it is no where to be felt. And this is seriously, seriously great. I had begun to obsess on that thick area to the point of thinking 'is this a lump?' It seemed bigger, denser than before and it wasn't painful like it had been since forever... Of course I didn't blow it all out of proportion in my mind and think that it was the big C and that I had done it to myself with NBE. No, no, no, I was already planning how my funeral was going to be and how I was just going to stoicly accept my fate as the cancer gradually crept into my brain (is this a headache or a great big brain tumor...). -NO SIR, NO DRAMA QUEEN HERE!! ..... and now it's gone. It seems that all my tempests are still firmly in my teapot. So Yeah! No fibrocysts, no lump, no big C, and no funeral plans.

Also, no great increases in size yet either. But hey, I am not whining. They haven't shrunk either. I just took some pics and I will compare them to my last set (the super secret image files that I will have to delete with my last strength no matter what.... "Ma'am, It's the paramedics here to rescue you from (fill in the blank horrific health crisis) Please open this locked door." me: "must... delete... secret... file...")

So, I am off to look at current and past pics of my boobs. And oh yeah, my caboose is perhaps a little smaller, either that or my clothes have finally stretched out in the rear.

waxingmoon

I have been focusing my breast measurements under the breast and around the fullest part. Aside from my first inch which has remained, I have only increased another 1/2 inch. I have another 1/2 inch that comes and goes with my cycle. I gave up measuring for a while (except once when someone made a remark in a thread about measuring your breast when bent forward - wohoo! what a gain... lol).

I used my photos to compare and see the gain, but I am not always taking them at the same time in my cycle, so the results vary. The side view seems to indicate the most change and that is mainly in the shape of my breasts. I guess when you start with nothing there is a lot of foundation work that has to be laid down first.

Well now I have some proof as to this foundation work. My measurement above my breasts have recently increased an inch as well.

My original measurements were:

Above breast: 34"
Over breast: 33"
Under breast: 31"

My current measurements are:

Above breast: 35"
Over breast: 34 1/2"
Under breast: 31"

I still have a long, long way to go to get to an A cup, but hey, the foundations are laid! Time for the construction crew to start the high rise! Let's get those towers building. (in my minds eye I see a gang of beefy construction guys in hard hats, blue jeans and no shirts on thier tanned and muscled chests (hey - it's my mind okay... and we women have some testosterone molecules... mine happen to look burly and I put them to work in boob construction - that way we are all happy) - they are getting down to business erecting a couple of shapely domes ... I can just hear the hammers now...lol)

waxingmoon

I have the same problem. My grandma, my mom, my sister... basically all the women in my family have at least a C cup. And over here, I can barely fit an A cup! Why? Probably stress because when I started puberty in jr. high, my parents divorced and I had very poor nutrition during that one year. But I didn't consider that fact before I read your program. I think it's the push ups. Between 7th and 10th grade, I used to do at least 25 push ups a day, 3-4 times a week. Don't know why, I thought it was going to increase my breast size but it did the exact opposite. My breasts got firmer but not bigger. And recently, my older sister just started working out her arms for basketball very intensely for a two weeks and nothing but her breasts shrunk to a B cup. So these push-up could be on to something...

Anh

Anh,
Interesting that you may have also experienced a stress related effect in you development (or lack thereof).

As far as the push ups, I disagree as to them being a reason for small breasts. It is true that a toned muscle does appear smaller and tighter than a muscle that has no tone, but strengthening a muscle does not reduce body fat to a specific area. Your sister may have exercised enough to reduce her total body fat and she must be one of those who loses fat in the breast first (a common issue).

I do push ups and bench press about 3 times a week. It is the only reason I have any cleavage at all. Now that I am gaining breast fat I am having a really nice shape to my breasts due to the muscle I have created. I also believe by exercising the muscle I enhance blood flow to the breast which aids NBE.

The only downside to developing my chest muscles has been in getting a bra that fits. Since I have not only developed my pectoral (chest) muscles, I have developed my lats (side and back of chest) muscles - I have a larger rib cage measurement. This gives me a nice V shape to my upper body (accentuating my waist line) - and that is all great. The problem is in order to fit the bra band I have to use a bra that has even larger cup size requirements. Right now I am doing well to fill a 34A cup but I have to use a bra extender because even a 36 band is tight on me. I dream of having some boobs to match my rib cage measurement ... lol

Good luck with your progress. Keep me posted on how you are doing.

waxingmoon

hi waxingmoon

I wondered - do you have children? I've just read on the Beboard that progesterone may work better for women who haven't had children.

http://beboard.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1077074729

The theory being that women who have been pregnant have full mature breast (the glandular part) and extra estrogen will fill them out. PC is better for women without children.

You're the only person I can think of whose had success with progesterone cream. Congratulations by the way - so have you grown 2 inches now in total? - I'd be very chuffed with that.

Best wishes

Linz

Hi Linz,
No, I don't have any kids. That is the first time I have heard that theory. Perhaps it is true, but I think there have been accounts of those who have had kids growing with progesterone cream as well. However, other than some of the guys, I don't recall anyone else on this board saying they attribute growth to progesterone. My thoughts are that not many people use it and if they do, they use other things, so what made them grow may not be apparent.

My use of the cream started as a way to control my estrogen dominance. It caused an initial inch of growth across the fullest part of my breasts. Since then, I have gained another 1/2 inch across the fullest part. Recently I measured the upper part of my chest and found that I had gained an inch there. Since most people measure at the fullest part of the breast I consider that I have gained 1 and 1/2 inches total.

But really, the change in my breasts is more dramatic than that. I started with very small and dense areas on my chest that could be called breasts mostly because they had a nipple attached. I could see under my breast when I looked straight down. My breast-bone stuck out further than my breasts from the side view. You could clearly see my rib cage through the upper part of my chest (cleavage area). Now my breasts look like breasts (- very small breasts, sort of like a 'toy dog' breed of breast). They are no longer lumpy - my fibrocystic areas have disappeared. I have more 'cleavage' in the upper areas of my chest and you can no longer see the ribs. Oddly, not only has there been an increase in breast fat, but my chest muscles that I have cultivated for years have also increased in size since I started NBE.

I started out smaller than anyones starting picture on this forum. I am still smaller than most peoples starting picture on this forum. I really was smaller than AAA, but now I am probably a 34aa - A or a 36aaa -aa. My goal is to create a stable hormonal balance and grow my breasts a large as possible - I will be happy to continue this quest for years if necessary. I figure since I was such an oddly super small starting size it is going to be a lot longer for me to get to where I am going - my ultimate goal of D cup... lol. Really, getting to an A cup is going to be a BIG deal to me.

Oops looks like I created another 'novel' ... lol.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

I am finally starting to feel I have brought my estrogen dominance under control. I have the least amount of symptoms since, well, forever. It is time for a change.

Here is what I think helped balance my hormones.

Progesterone cream used days 12 - 28 (80mg tapering to 20mg per day since September 2006)

Vitex 450mg extract and 500 mg herb per day since November.

Whey protein 25 - 50 grams per day

Crushed Flax seed 2 tbsp per day for last 3 months

Fennel 960mg per day for last 2 months

---------------------------------------------------

The basic theory behind what I was doing was:

Adding progesterone (PC and vitex)
Increasing protein (whey)
Blocking estrogen receptors from more potent estrogen (flax and fennel)

Of course there were a lot of other things I have been doing to create this balance, but they are all listed in my program entries above...

I think it has worked, now to revise the plan.

My current measurements:

Above breasts (under arms) 34"
Across breast (at nipple) 34" (plus a smidgen more)
Below breasts (bra strap area) 29.5"

So, what is rather strange is my band measurement has reduced by more than an inch. I attribute this to some effort on my part to reduce my FAT. What it took to bring my Estrogen Dominance under control has made me bigger in every way possible (okay, so maybe my hat size didn't increase...) The last few weeks I have been eating smaller, more frequent meals which has dropped me down about 5 pounds and I have lost an inch top to bottom - but luckily not so much in breasts (about 1/4 inch there).
My butt is still HUGE. During all this progesterone use my waist and hips grew, but my butt attained Moby Dick proportions (thar she blows! The great white whale of a butt). I'm going Ahab on it now.

Here is my new plan:

Am
Vitex extract 225mg
Vitex herb 400 mg
Fennel 480mg
Fenugreek 1220 mg

Protein drink
yogurt 4oz
crushed Flax seed 2tbsp
Wheat germ 2tbsp
Psyllium husk 2tbsp
Whey protein 20grams


Pm
Vitex extract 225mg
Fennel 480mg

Protein drink
Psyllium husk 1 tbsp
whey protein 20 grams

I will keep taking all my other multivitamin, cod liver oil, vitamin C ... as well as my exercise.

I am cautious about the Fenugreek. Taking double this amount gave me acne in 3 days. It seems this is a rather large amount per capsule... Maybe I will get a capsule with a lower dose and try that.

waxingmoon

Here is what I am doing with the Fenugreek.

I started taking it last week - 7 days using about 300 mg or so (I dumped about half of a capsule and took the rest).

Now I will take 610mg a day for the next 7 days. If that works and no acne shows up, then I will increase to 1220 mg a day.

I am really leery of this herb. When I first took it at 1220 mg per day it was not a good deal. Immediately (3 days) brought on acne.

I read Fenugreek is related to chickpeas, which for me are agony to eat. I love them, but I have even a mouthful and I am doubled over with gas pains within a half hour. Hopefully they are distant relatives and Fenugreek will leave my face and intestines alone.

I am interested in it because it is not exactly a phytoestrogen - rather it functions in a different way -which hopefully for me will avoid estrogen dominance trouble and provide NBE. I have also noticed it is a frequent part of successful growth for those who have attained more than 2 inches of increase.

Come on Fenu!

Well, I am stopping the fenugreek. I slowly ramped it up and there was no acne. However as I went up to 1800 mg a day I started feeling weird. Not exactly light headed, but troubled. I also began to have sleep problems and weird dreams and began to feel overheated. Then on Saturday I hit a wall. Extreme fatigue in the early morning, nausea that cleared up slowly after I ate something - I had to work and was tired all day. By nightfall I was overwhelmed and temp was 99.3. I skipped my pm doses of all herbs - slept well and woke up better. Skipped all herbs yesterday - no signs or symptoms of anything amiss.

I think the fenugreek lowered my blood sugar too much. During this time I did not experience any positive NBE results. No tingles - no increase, in fact my normal luteal swelling did not begin until the last couple of days when I stopped the herbs.

So, back to the drawing board. I think I will continue the herb fast for another week or two. Then I will start back with vitex and maybe fennel.

I will keep up with massage and all my other vitamins, but my body could probably use the break. Perhaps there will be some positive changes as my body clears out all the herbs.

Not depressed but disappointed. Fenugreek was supposed to be my magic pill to boobdom... Darn you Fenu (see me shaking fist). That's what I get for playing around with a cousin of chickpeas.

Perhaps it's just the lingering fenugreek poisoning talking but these last couple of weeks I have really been hankering for more boobage. Of course it doesn't help that I was looking for a swimsuit and that meant looking at all the ads with the godzilla boobed models ('quick, run for your lives, Boobzilla is destroying the city').

Alas, if only I had an A cup instead of mini-me...

SIGH

waxingmoon

I wasn't sure what would happen while on this extended break from all NBE herbs. Would I shrink, would I grow? Well, nothing happened. Yeah, it was a rather boring result. However, it does prove the fennel and fenugreek were not a positive for me and I was not overwhelming my receptors with them - that kind of NBE just isn't right for me.

I started to feel anxiety again and unfortunately began to have other symptoms of thyroid trouble ...sleep problems and lots of hair loss :(( This tells me that my progesterone is not able to do it without help. I have begun to use Vitex again and I am using about 10mg of progesterone cream about every other day.

This cycle I was only able to make it to day 6 before I reached for the PC (if it stops me from ovulating, I don't care - the anxiety is just too much). That stuff has an immediate positive effect on me - anxiety gone. It also has another effect. I started on day 20 of last cycle and it caused my boobs to plump up like crazy (by the way I don't put it on my breasts, just on various thin skinned areas).

The twins have stayed rather 'big' -- meaning I still fill my 34a now 8 days after my period. Since I began using the PC cream this cycle they are beginning to grow again. I don't know if they will stay this way, but it is rather nice.

Here is my program right now:

AM
Massage with lavender oil (5 min)
Whey protein drink with Flax seed
Vitex 1 extract, 1 herb
Vitamins (multi, calcium/magnesium, cod liver oil, Vit E, chromium, coQ10, Vit C)

PM
Vitamins
Vitex 1 extract

Every other day or so 10 mg of progesterone cream

Vitex seems to be kicking in more quickly this time. I have hardly had to use the PC.

I am still filling my 34a's fairly well. I bought an 'achievment' bra - 34 nearly B. So with that and my 36a I have some test bras to check on my progress. What I need is a little bitty camera to stick in the cup and see just how far away I am from filling the dome.

Happy news! My butt has shrunk an inch. So has my waistline. My weight is down as well and I am about 3 lbs short of my goal. Unfortunately, my overall body fat is still to high and there is some rather disturbing 'marbling' in my thigh area.

Forget fat transplants. What I want is a way to transplant estrogen receptors from my butt and thighs. This is just yet another way I find myself underwhelmed by technology.

waxingmoon

Just posting the vitamin regime I am currently on. I tend to change it slightly as time goes on and I want to record it here for future reference.

AM Vitamins

Multi - Bluebonnet (maxi two) - 1 tablet
Methyl B12 - 1000 mcg
Co Q10 - 30 mg
Ester C - 1000 mg
Evening Primrose Oil - 650 mg
Vitex extract - 225 mg
Vitex herb - 400 mg
Calcium/magnesium/potasium - 500mg/225mg/225mg
Codliver Oil - 3 capsules
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg


PM Vitamins

Co Q10 - 30 mg
Ester C - 1000 mg
Vitex extract - 225 mg
Calcium/magnesium/potasium - 500mg/225mg/225mg
Codliver Oil - 3 capsules
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
Black Currant Oil - 500 mg
Melatonin - 6 mg
Selenium - 100 mcg


Additional Nutritional Substances

Whey protein - 20 grams
Crushed Flax seed - 2 tablespoons
Psyllium husks - 2 tablespoons
Green tea - 2 cups

I have been studying some things and have come to realize some other things that probably were instrumental in my lack of breast development.

Issue #1 SLEEP PROBLEMS
Ever since I was a child I have suffered from insomnia. I did not know for a long time that what I experienced when I went to bed was anything different from anyone else. After all, my parents assumed I went to sleep shortly after going to bed. In actuality I was awake for hours most night before I ever went to sleep.

The sleep problems went on into my puberty years. I can remember staring at the clock after my 9pm bedtime and watching the hours pass, midnight, one am, two am -- and then I guess I slept some because the alarm at 6am was always waking me up. I knew by this time that what I was experiencing was not the norm, but in my family this kind of 'weakness' was not tolerated or even acknowledged. If I had told someone I was not sleeping well it would have been my 'fault' and the solution would have been something like making me go to bed earlier or (weirdly enough) waking me up earlier to prove that I was actually sleeping. (Now, I know this might make some of you think my family was mean -they weren't mean, exactly... they were just so stuck on 'everything being perfect' that they refused to believe something wasn't perfect - You had to have verifiable evidence if something was going to be considered 'wrong' - for example you had to have a fever in order to be 'sick'... you had to be bleeding in order to be hurt... etc. As a result many things got swept under the rug so the veneer of family perfection could be spotless - yes it was strange, but at the time I knew no difference)

Anyway - all that lack of sleep was seriously cutting down on my Growth Hormone -which is produced during sleep. I am of normal height, but I am also shorter than my sister by a couple of inches(let me tell you she slept like a log). Growth hormone is not just for growing tall, it also affects us in a large number of ways.

Perhaps if I had gotten enough sleep I would be 6 ft tall and sporting a huge rack of boob... lol.

Issue #2 SUGAR
During this time of no sleep I was a sugar-holic. As I stated before, there was not a good nutritional profile to my youth. But I must honestly say my mom did try to keep me away from sugar, she was just very unsuccessful at this. I can remember asking her if I could have a piece of bread. Of course she said yes - bread is good right. Well, I would sneak the sugar bowl out and layer the top of the white bread with sugar. Voila -a sugar sandwich. This was just one of my many ways of sneaking the white stuff.

It turns out that high sugar consumption interferes with Growth Hormone.

Now, I know some of you are saying "Hey, maybe if you hadn't eaten all that sugar you would have slept better." And to that I must say "Hey, are we related? Because you sound just like someone from my family" ... lol

In honor of finishing my first year of NBE, I have composed a couple of poems about my breasts.

(I know, apparently I have gone insane, but at least it is the happy kind... lol)



BEFORE NBE HAIKU

ugly, worthless breasts
how you deflate my spirit
i do not love you



AFTER 1 YEAR OF NBE HAIKU

petite, perfect orbs
your beauty gives me such joy
how i love you both


waxingmoon (the loon)

Today my lefty is an actual 36a.

Now this is only monumental if you consider my starting point of ... well okay I already failed to calculate that before because it was so small, but somewhere around a 36aaaaa... lol

Of course, I must honestly say it is only going to be this size for another 24 to 72 hours - four days tops, because that will be day 1 of my cycle and then I will be on the downhill slide of the boob roller coaster.

I must also confess that the little rascal on the right has only made it to a 36aa proportion... But, as I have squeezed my ribcage into a 34a today I am happy to see lefty bulging out of the top and righty filling the space nicely.


Ahhhh!!!!

So yes, the bummer will be that this will go away, but I also am encouraged because it will come back again. Each month I ride the boob coaster, but each month the 'cars' surge into higher hills (okay, okay I am mixing the metaphor a little, but you know what I'm talking about ... lol)


Weeee!!!!

I can see 'big boobs' from here...


waxingmoon - riding with both arms held high...

It's so fun reading your posting through your journey and gives me hope. Congratulations on your progress. I am too a 34AAA!! A mother of 3, close to 40, still hoping there is time to grow some. My disadvantage, among other things, is that instead coming from a boobie blessed family, I know at least my mother is flat-chested, so I might be pre-disposed to the same fate. But still hoping! I might be estrogen dominant also. I have taken borage oil, fenugreek, saw palmetto, flax seed, vitamind E, collagen (all in pill form), but don't see hardly any change. I have never really experienced obvious swelling any time during my cycle either, but my cycle is very regular without pain or discomfort. I was hoping, after all your trying and adjusting, you chould give me some suggestions as to what I should try. I am living in Singapore now and all progesterone cream must be through prescription (they are very tight with substance control). So if I should use progesterone cream, I need to buy online from the US and ship over here. Could you suggest which kind to use. Are they all created equal? Thanks in advance.

Hi Sarah,
I use the Now brand of progesterone cream. I looked up an online store and this seems to be a good one:

http://www.now-2-u.com/index.php?action=itemdetail&item_id=12546

They talk about postal codes to other countries so maybe the will ship to you. I like this brand. I is the only one I have used, but it is not the only one that will work.

What you must look for in a progesterone cream is whether it lists in its ingredients - USP Grade Natural Progesterone. This tells us that the progesterone cream is made to be bio-identical to our own progesterone. Any product that does not list this will likely not have what you are looking for. You also want to make sure it has enough progesterone to do you good. About 450 to 500 mg per ounce.

I did not have any success using phytoestrogens. This might have been because I was estrogen dominant, but now I think that it was also because I don't have enough active estrogen receptors. The progesterone is helping to correct that.

One other thing to keep in mind is that you can us the herb Vitex to help your body make more progesterone. You may find vitex locally. If you have trouble finding it I am sure you can find it online as well. The extract form is more potent than the herb by itself.

Good luck with your quest. Be patient. Those of us over 40 need to take the long term view of this. It can work, but we may have to balance out hormonal problems first.

waxingmoon

Thank you so much for your information. Did you buy your other supplements through Now website also? It seems to be a very good one mainly because the shipping charge for international buyer is only $5.25!!! Usually they charge you an arm and a leg for shipping internationally. If you have been using their products and got the results you have, the quality must be very good too. So I ordered 2 jars of progesterone cream and most of the other things you have listed in the vitamins. Singapore has very high prices for all supplements and herbs. A lot of the stores carry American brands but the prices are like doubled or tripled from what you would pay for in the states. Hope to get them soon in the mail. Another question: do you do any massage? Many swear by it, saying that without massage, there won't be any growth even with all the "right" herbs. What is the bench press you are talking about? I am moderately athletic, meaning I have started working out mildly Monday through Friday. On Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I do treadmill for 30 minutes totally with 25 jogging at the speed of 6 miles per hour, and work with free weight on biceps, triceps, glutes and abs for another 30 minutes. On Tuesday and Thursday, I just do the jogging on treadmill for 30 minutes. I used to exercise quite regularly but since moving to Singapore 3 years ago, I have been doing it. Just started again because I feel I have to do something to keep myself in shape. I have never been fat and that might be one of the reasons why I got no boobs. I am 5'4 1/2 and 115 lbs, Asian. And that's another thing. They say asians have much more trouble growing. Nevertheless I am willing to try. I just would like to get to where some of the girls posted as their beginning picture. Sounds pretty pathetic, but that's the way it is. Thanks again for all your help.

The local health food store carries what I need, but I agree that site seemed very good. I am glad to hear the shipping is reasonable.

I do massage each morning using lavender oil. I use the essential oil mixed with a little lavender hand lotion because the essential oil alone can burn. I would not say I spend much time with it -maybe 3 - 5 minutes. I started using lavender oil based on the reports breast growth in young boys who had been using lavender oil - I figured since my chest looked a lot like a young boy's, I had nothing go lose... lol. Anyway -I really, really like the scent and whether or not it is having any NBE effect I will continue with it. I believe the massage I do enhances blood flow within the breast and is good for overall breast health.

I used to spend a lot more time massaging and would have temporary increase in size as a result. Since the effect was not permanent and I began to resent the intrusion into my time I now cut the massages short.

The bench press I was talking about is a common machine in most gyms. There is also a free-weight bench press- but it is safer to have a partner work with you if you use the free-weight bench press. The basic idea is the same as a push up. The bench press when done properly can allow you to isolate the pectoral (chest) muscle more.

I have started a thread on the main page titled 'tops of breast' which outlines some good exercises to increase chest muscle size.

Your routine sounds healthy. If I were you I would switch from using the isolation of biceps and triceps and work in some push ups or bench press instead. You will still work out your biceps and triceps but you will have the added benefit of shaping your chest. I almost think your treadmill may be too much for NBE - but if you are not losing weight and have enough body fat it might be okay. Sometimes a lot of aerobic exercise can make it hard to gain body fat (a plus for health in general but a negative for NBE).

Yeah, I know what you mean about wanting to look like the 'before' pictures... lol. Seriously, I think some of us are in a completely different league when it comes to NBE. I look at some of the before pics and I think 'Don't they know they already have great boobs?' ... lol.

Glad you are getting your program in order. Keep me posted on how you are doing.

waxingmoon

Waxingmoon,

Well the low shipping charge was false. Their system cannot really calculate the international shipping charges. They will send it to you later for confirmation, and my order came to more than $30. But I found another website oncatalog.com, which has lower cost for the Now Progesterone Cream. So I didn't order any other supplements; just stick with the progesterone cream for now since that might be the key to my problem of no growth at this point. I am really disgusted with Singapore's petty way of handling things. Anything to do with hormones requires a prescription, so there is absolutely no way I could get over-the-counter progesterone cream. If I go to the doctor, I don't know what to tell her in order to get her to prescribe me progesterone cream since I am not in menopause and don't have any other menopausal related problems. All the supplements are so expensive here. I looked at the whey protein powder today. A 5-lb bottle costs over $100!

I just started my exercise routine about 2 or 3 weeks ago, with the jogging on treadmill and weights on alternate days. So I don't know if I will lose much body fat doing it. I am quite thin except for the tummy. Any weight gain will go to the tummy. That's the damage from having had three children I guess. I will start the lavender oil massage as you described. Do you massage in a certain special way or just do the rotations? Look forward to having my progesterone cream coming.

Thanks for all your help.

Sarah

Hello Waxingmoon,

I was just wondering if you are continuing with your program and if you have had more growth. I started my program about two or three weeks ago, about the time when I first posted in your program page, and haven't noticed any growth yet. I wasn't expecting things to happen so soon anyway. The progesterone cream hasn't arrived. But I would like to know when it does, how I am supposed to use it. Is there instructions with it? Do I know to massage extensively with it or just rub in? How much would you contribute your growth to the massage? So many swear by the massage, but as a working mother of three, it's really hard to get the time in. I have so little with them anyway, and feel guilty about locking myself in the bathroom and let them do things on their own. A problem you don't have to worry about. :) I am still continuing with the 5-day-a-week exercise routine. Three of the days, I do treadmill running/walking for 30 minutes, and mild weight and abs for another 20 minutes. The other two days, I just job on the treadmill for 30 minutes and call it quits. I have somehow gained quite a bit of weight in the last 6 months, probably this sedatory job and my chocolate-crazy habits. I was under 110 lbs, but recently have gone up to 116-118 lbs. And the extra weight all seems to be on the tummy and butt. None where I want it unfortunately. Sigh. Do you think I should leave the weight alone and not worry about it, lest when doing cardio, I affect my NBE efforts negatively? Any other tips you could offer. Since I feel my situation most resembles yours among other NBE participants, I would like to follow what has proven to be successful for you. Thanks.

Hi Sara,
Sorry I missed your earlier post. I had not checked this page for a while.

In answer to your question about progesterone cream. Just apply it like you would lotion - that is you rub it in until it seems to disappear. You don't want a thick layer all in one place. You also want to apply it to areas that have high blood flow and thin skin. Some good areas are the front and back of the neck, the insides of the arms, the back of the knee, top of the feet and back of the hands. You want to avoid places that have a lot of body fat because you don't want to store the progesterone, you want it to go into circulation. Rotate the sites you use each day so you will not have a build up in one area. Try to use a site no more than once every 3 days.

The progesterone you get should tell you how much to use to create a 20mg dose. The brand I use has a pump that delivers the precise amount. One pump equals 20 mg.

In answer to your question about massage. I use the essential lavender oil mixed with a small amount of lavender hand lotion. I bet I spend less than five minutes during the massage. I concentrate on making circular motions around the entire breast then upward strokes with both hands from the bottom of the breast.

I also massage the area of the rib cage to the sides of the breast as well as the areas above the breast. My whole idea is to increase blood and lymph flow through the breast tissue. This is different that when I first started NBE. I got tired of massaging each breast for 5 minutes and although it gave me a slight increase it was only a temporary thing. So don't feel you need to rob those kids of your presence. You can do the massage you need in a very short period of time.

Oh yeah, another thing I do each morning is use the shower massage on the breasts. At the end of my shower I direct the water stream onto each breast using very warm/hot water. I will even lean forward and allow the spray to massage the breasts. The temperature is just at the limit of what I find pleasant and it leaves the breasts looking rosy. I believe this enhances the blood flow to the breasts and is good before my lavender massage.

About the other question. -Am I still growing? -Yes. Just his morning I was noticing how much larger my breasts were at this time of my cycle from previous months. I think I am almost up to most peoples starting pictures now ...lol (okay - not those "b/c cup what are you doing needing more breast you buxom goddesses" ones -but the A cup ones) My growth is slow and comes in fits and starts.

I am filling my 34a push ups with bulges at the top - so for me this is heaven. I would say the flat Kansas wheat fields are becoming gentle rolling hills -- Next stop the Grand Titons... lol


Take care and hugs to your kiddies,
waxingmoon

Waxingmoon,

You are so cute! I am glad to know about the rolling hills headed for grand titons. Hope you get there soon. I am just starting up. No progesterone cream yet. Still somewhere in the air between FL and here. Hope to get it soon and get things moving. Thanks for the detailed explanation of what you do about the cream and massage and everything else. Catch you later.

Sarah

Just wanted to post an update on my NBE and vitamin regime. In reading through my posts I must say I have gone through a lot of changes since first beginning NBE. And I also must say -I am soooooo strange. Dear lord -what was that haiku stuff all about. I don't do any drugs, so I can't blame it on that. I must be insane.... but at least it's the happy kind. Anyhoo.... here is what I am currently doing.

During morning shower -light massage to breasts with shower stream and hot water (no scalding just very, very warm).

Right after the shower -Lavender oil -about a teaspoon full with a squirt of lavender hand lotion to dilute. I massage this into breasts using circular motions and sweeping motions from sides and below. My main focus is to stimulate circulation and lymph drainage. The smell of lavender is heavenly.

Breakfast - 6oz yogurt with 2 Tbsp crushed flax seed, 2 Tbsp psyllium husks and a heaping scoop of whey protein powder. Mixed with either water or milk to make drinkable. I consume this while reading Eve's forum.


AM Vitamins

Multi - Bluebonnet (maxi two) - 1 tablet
Methyl B12 - 1000 mcg
Ubiquinol -Bluebonnet (a more active form of Co Q10) - 50 mg
Ester C - 1000 mg
Evening Primrose Oil - 1300 mg
Vitex extract - 225 mg
Calcium/magnesium/potasium - 500mg/225mg/225mg
Codliver Oil - 3 capsules
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg

11am -1st lunch -usually chicken or fish -3 - 4 oz, orange or apple slices, green beans or other vegetable, 1 cup green Earl grey tea.

2pm -2nd lunch -usually chicken or fish -3 - 4 oz, orange or apple slices, green beans or other vegetable, 1 cup green Earl grey tea. (yes, left overs from first lunch - I always bring my lunch to work with me.

Between 9 am and 7 pm I will have done 2 - 4 hours of exercise -most mild intensity but 3 times a week more intense muscle building exercises.

8pm dinner -usually fish - 3 - 4 oz, pasta and vegetables.

9 pm - protein drink - 16 grams whey protein powder with water.

PM Vitamins -30 minutes before bed.

Co Q10 - 30 mg
Ester C - 1000 mg
Vitex extract - 225 mg
Calcium/magnesium/potasium - 500mg/225mg/225mg
Codliver Oil - 3 capsules
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
Fish oil -Spectrum brand - 500 mg
Melatonin - 3 mg
Selenium - 100 mcg

Sleep - 7 - 8 hours per night.

The biggest changes are in adding the ubiquinol (this is the active form of CoQ 10 that the body creates from ubiquinone CoQ10 along with an enzyme - I suspect I don't have enough of the enzyme to make the active form of CoQ10) - I reduced Vitex to just the extract, I increased EPO, I reduced melatonin, I am using fish oil instead of Black current oil. Also I only used Progesterone cream 2 nights this cycle.

Measurements:

Above breast under arms: 33"
Fullest part of breast: 35"
Below breasts: 30"

Waist: 27"
Hips: 37"

I haven't measured in a while - Wow! the fullest part of my breast is bigger than ever! And I am smaller around the ribcage. I think this means I am actually a true 34a!!!

Just one more thing to be thankful for...

waxingmoon

Not sure about you being an A......Most measurement guides add 4 or 5 to you underbust to give your band size then if that is equal to your bust you're an A, bust 1 inch bigger is a B, 2 inches bigger is a C...this makes you 34B! Try to buy the same bra in 34A and 34B to check but you may be pleasantly surprised - they'll also look more heavy and round as your underbust measurement decreases. Thanks again for all your advice x

Wow Waxingmoon, you sound great! I am jealous! Being overseas and lacking means of getting all the herbs you listed, I have to make do with what I can. You seem to do a lot of exercise, which makes sense since you are a trainer. For me who have to juggle work and kids and everything else, it's hard to squeeze out enough time to do any exercise. I started a while ago and stuck to it for about 2 months, but the schedule just got too hard and quit. Now I am just playing tennis about two time a week, 1 hour each time. It's not intensive since I am only a beginner, but I suppose it provides me with some exercise. Do you have any suggestions as to what are the important forms of exercise to do for somebody with limited time? If you think cardiovascular is essential, I will go back to it. Do you feel I should do some free weights? I don't like push-ups, but I will do them if they are key. Thanks.

Hi Waxingmoon,

I think you said you buy your herbs from local stores. But could I ask what brands you buy of which herbs? Do you have an opinion which brands are better than others and what to look at when choosing. I have the only option of buying online, so my choices are rather limited, and costs are quite high. I want to makes sure I get the right things, herbs that are effective. Thanks.

Sarah

Wow - haven't checked this page for a while - sorry it has taken me so long to respond.

Louise,
You are too kind. It is possible I could find a bra that would fit and it might be a 34B, but there is not enough breast tissue yet for that to be a real B cup. Someday soon I hope, but not yet. As it is, the A cup is quite a change for me, so I am not disappointed in any way.


Sarah,
I think cardiovascular exercise is good for health. Your tennis involves a lot of start/stop action which can be hard on your joints and ligaments. It would be a good idea to use some strength training to protect your legs. If you have a gym available, leg extensions and leg curls are good machines to use. At home, you can place a ball behind your back (basket ball sized) and lean against a wall and do squats. (Keep your knees over your ankles and don't drop your hips below knee height)

For upper body, wall push ups or push ups on the knees can improve your chest muscles and are important to NBE. At a gym you can use the bench press or chest press machine for the same effect. You can also lie on your back with free weights and do a chest press that way.

As far as the herbs, standardized formulas are best (which means they guarantee the amount of potent herb in each capsule). I think one of my brands is Nature's Way. Any company that guarantees the freshness of their product would be good. There is a company called Vitamin Shoppe that I know has an internet store. They carry many different brands as well as their own brand. You might check them out to see if the prices would be better - they are often much lower than at my local stores - the catch of course is the shipping.

Hope you can find something soon. Good luck with your journey.

waxingmoon

Hello Waxingmoon,

Thanks for your input. I play tennis because it's a lot of fun as a group of close friends do it regular, even though I am still a beginner and no good at it yet. It's hard to learn new things when one is under a lot of stress and is older. I will just try to be gentle on my knees. Does wearing knee guards help? I will continue to do treadmill as much as I can. I will probably try to 3 times a week, 30 minutes each. Then followed by some push-ups (I hate push-ups maybe because my upper body is not strong), free weights, crunches (hoping to take care of flab on my tummy). Any good suggestions to help flatten the tummy? Exercise facilities are few and far in between. Gym membership is extraordinarily expensive and they are not afraid there aren't enough people joining. Fortunately there is a small gym with some exercise equipment in the apartment complex I live here in Singapore. Even though it's small I am thankful to have it. I have lived here for three years, and have just recently started taking advantage of it. I did work out quite regularly and more in shape when I was back in Colorado. I remember a trainer saying that doing plank is a very efficient time-saving core strength training method. People call it different names, but it's basically hold your body tummy down, supported by toes and elbows only and tuck in all the muscles and hold it for as long as possible. Do you think it's good for toning up muscles? How does it affect NBE? Are there any other efficient strength training methods? I don't have much time on my hands so I always train economize.

Thanks.

Sarah

I really enjoyed reading your posts, and at the same time I felt very close to you in this subject... I am 34, have no children, and I have a 30AAA, actually I have touble in filling any of the smallest-sized bras because I dont have any shape at all...making it short, I have always been rather embarrased for having such a flat breast!

Three weeks ago I learned about NBE and straight away I began with herbs and massages...my daily routine is 1500 mg fenugreek and a massage with a home-made cream made of olive oil, fennel and fenugreek. I dont know about the results yet, it is too early but maybe I feel my boobs a bit tighter (though it could also be due to my cycle).

Reading your posts has made me wonder a lot about progesterone and hormonal imbalances...I have always thought that my breast problem was due to something like this because all women in my family have very big cups except me! So some months ago I had a hormonal test done and the result showed that prolactine is a bit high, ans so is thyroidal hormone TSH (the doctor said I have a subclinical hypothyroidism but I need no treatment for that). The rest of the hormone levels were normal.

Oh and I forgot to say that I also suffer from PMS and i have some fibrocystic problems in my small breast....

Could I ask for some advice from all your experience???
Thanks :-)

Hi Marinora,

It sounds like you have some of the same symptoms that I have had. My prolactin levels never tested high, but my thyroid stimulating hormone level did test slightly high.

I was not considered a candidate for thyroid replacement hormone by my doctor even though I suffered from many hypothyroid symptoms. I did not get relief from these symptoms until I began using the progesterone cream.

Too much estrogen can cause an increase in thyroid binding proteins that will interfere with the cellular use of thyroid hormone. This is why estrogen dominance symptoms are very much like hypothyroid symptoms.

You might find relief from using progesterone cream as I did. However, it is not a quick fix and will take at least 3 months to be totally effective. It is however a fairly harmless thing to try if you keep the progesterone cream levels reasonable.

I would suggest the book by Dr John Lee - What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause. It will detail how to use the cream and what you can expect from it.

I think if you are patient, you will achieve growth but more importantly you will solve a long standing hormone imbalance problem, which will help you in so many other ways.

Best wishes,

waxingmoon

Many thanks for your advice and quick answer, Waxingmoon!

Definitely I think I should try with a progesterone cream instead of the home-made one I prepared with estrogenic herbs. It seems a better way to help hormonal disorders. And I will try to get the book too, hope I can find it here.

My doubt now is about the pills I should take as well to help getting some growth... You tried fenugreek too and didnt work for you...actually I wonder if it may be that good to mix a phytoestrogen like fenugreek together with progesterone, well, I have been in NBE only a few weeks and I dont really know that much about it... do you think I should go on with this herb for a while before dropping it in order to see if it works? Or what other herbs would you suggest instead in my case???

Sorry for asking so many questions ... I am a beginner in NBE :-)

Marinora,
I think in your case, I would start with Vitex. It will take about 3 months for you to feel the effect, but it would probably help to balance your hormones better than the estrogenic herbs.

Fenugreek and I are bitter enemies...lol. It was really not a good idea for me. The fennel did nothing that I could tell. I do not believe that estrogenic herbs are right for me considering my estrogen dominance problems.

Of course I am not saying you and I have the same issues, but if we were similar, it would be more likely you would do better to work in trying to raise your progesterone. That is why I think vitex would be a good start for you since it will promote progesterone production in your body. Increasing your progesterone will wake up any dormant estrogen receptors you have and that will enhance your NBE.

Consider yourself on an odyssey that will last many, many months. It is likely that you will gain at least an inch in a relatively short amount of time, however, on you and me both, an inch does not mean we have entered the magical boob land of fitting into regular bras...lol.

I would also suggest some chest muscle developing exercises. I will detail these soon as soon as I get a little more time.

Sarah, I have not forgotten about you. I am working on a basic chest building post - so look for it soon.

waxingmoon

Hi Waxingmoon, many thanks for all your advice!!! You have given me some hope that I can grow somehow :-)

I still have a few questions for you...

the first is about Vitex agnus-castus though it may sound a bit stupid... do you know the spanish name for it or other names that might give me a clue to translate???? That would help a lot because in my shop dont know about it, and I have also tried to look for a translation in the web but without result. i know I can order it online and get it from overseas but its much easier and cheaper if I can find it here...

Whenever I can find vitex, I was thinking to start with the same amount you were taking in the beginning of your program, together with some borage oil...my doubt is about the progesterone cream, why were you only applying it from the 12th day of your cycle??? Does it cause a lot of hormone disorder to apply it through the whole month?? Its just that I have a rather not periodic period, I mean it may come from the day 22nd to the 27th, so you can imagine its hard to know exactly which day I should start with the cream....

what a long post, sorry for asking so much :-))

Hope you don't mind me posting here for something totally unrelated to your program! Just wanted to say thanks for recomending exercise, most of my leg is now hard in some position or another although hasn't shrunk yet and I'm trying to do the Callanetics 30 day program...I'm so bad at putting off doing it even though it takes about 10 mins - I hate doing anything physical! I've recently noticed that defined groove up the outer thigh (doesn't go all the way up yet unless it's under that saddlebag). Is it normal to have one thigh bigger than the other? I'm careful to only do the same reps on each side although where I dislocated the right knee I sometimes have to do say 2 sets of 10 on the left leg (standing on the right) whereas I can do 20 straight on the right. I think my butt is looking better....if it flattens away to nothing I can always try some maca! Also the most important thing for me is that I feel this has no effect on my boobs, I lost the fat in there before I started NBE and what I've grown from Brava is probably more connective tissue and skin (and ? underlying bone - they are rock hard!). From your point of view I can now run to my local post office and back (previously even when I did gym 4x weekly I couldn't even jog there never mind back again!).

Also just wondered as a trainer and not a hippy what you think about lymph drainage / massage / dry brushing - is there any science behind any of this?

Hope you had a happy xmas and you're doing well xx

Waxingmoon,

Firstly, congratulations on your growth! It continues to be inspiring to "witness" your dedication.

I am curious about the oils that you use. I'm still doing research (it seems it may never end!) and oils are my latest investigation...so, a few questions:

-Why did you decide to switch from borage to evening primrose oil?

-Also, I noticed you take both cod liver oil and fish oil. What do you understand to be the difference and why do you take both?

-Do you think it's possible to take too much GLA's and omega's? You seem to be taking alot... is more better in the case of GLAs and EFAs?

Thanks for your time!
Durga

Hi Durga,
Thank you for your kind words. NBE has been a big turn around for me in many ways -not just the size of my boobs.

I would be glad to talk with you about my oil routine.

First of all, the supplements I take are primarily for health and not NBE - however, I believe they do help in NBE greatly. Yet,I would take them even if they did not help my breast growth.

I switched from borage to evening primrose oil primarily to create variation in my diet. Both borage and EPO provide Omega-6 fatty acids. I believe EPO is slightly higher - but essentially they are the same.

Cod liver oil contains more Vitamin A and D than what is labeled fish oil. It also does not contain as much Omega-3 fatty acids nor as much EPA and DHA. So, I am taking the cod liver to supplement vitamins A and D and I take the fish oil to supply Omega-3 and its derivatives.

One thing you did not ask about - Flax seed. Although I take the crushed flax seed instead of flax seed oil, I take it for the Omega-3 fatty acids as well as for a source of lignan (low dose phytoestrogen).

According to what I have read - you cannot overdose on the Essential Fatty acids - however - you must watch your ratios between Omega-3 and Omega-6. Basically you should never let you ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6) and the standard diet has the ratio about 1:25 - which leads to heart disease and other ailments. I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, hormone building, heart health, reduced inflammation ... the list goes on and on.

I find that I don't eat enough cold water fish (salmon, mackrel, sardines, etc) therefore I really push the fish oil, cod liver oil and flax seed. Right now my ratio is about 1.8:1 which is close.

However, I have recently run across data stating that a good goal for the essential fatty acids is 1.5 grams per day of both 3 and 6 and 1.25 grams per day of EPA and DHA. My EPA and DHA are too low by a lot so I am going to redouble my efforts on consuming fish as well as take more of the fish oil.

I know I have thrown a lot of terms around in this response and my apologies to anyone who is wondering about the terms. Here is a great link to a very well written and accurate article about Essential Fatty acids:

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/efa.htm

There is a lot to this article and it gets a little scientific at times, but it is great info.

Hope this has shed some light. I am always glad to answer what I can.

waxingmoon

Waxingmoon,

Thanks! Lol-I originally included a question about flax oil, but I edited it because I didn't want to bother you with too many questions :)

I agree with you about taking these oils whether one is NBE bound or not- I am actually taking these particular supplements for my overall health benefit, the NBE results for me are definately secondary. Right now, I'm taking flax oil and borage oil. I also eat fish, usually salmon, once a week (the oil is too strong in flavor for me, I'm finicky!). I'm considering evening primrose to alternate with the borage, and keeping the flax a standard.

You clarified some questions for me and the link is very interesting and useful...I've always been a bit in the dark about the Omega 3/6/9's. To recap, one should aim to keep omega-6's under control (assuming the standard American diet, with all the vegetable oils out there...) and consume more Omega-3's. Is that right? Obviously, with the proper ratio in mind, of which...I'm still a little confused about, sorry if I'm a little dense!

When you say: "Basically you should never let your ratio be greater than 1:4 (omega-3:omege-6)" and "I am trying for a 2:1 ratio which will enhance muscle building, etc...", what kind of quantities are you referring to (grams, or...)?

For example, I take:

-Flax oil (enriched w/ lignans), I T per day:
Omega-3...7gr
Omega-6...2gr
Omega-9...2.5 gr
Lignans 21 mg

-Borage oil (1,300 mg/1.3 g) per day:
Omega-6...781mg
Omega-9...226mg
Linoleic acid...469 mg
GLA...312 mg (24%)

Does this mean that the flax oil contains a 1:3.5 (omega-3:omega-6) ratio? And if so, would taking the additional borage oil at 781mg (1.2 something grams) of Omega-6, put me at a 1:2-ish (omega-3:omega-6) ratio?? Sorry, I don't have a calculator or a great passion for mathematics...

Regards,
Durga

Hi Durga,

It looks like your ratios of Omega3:Omega6 are 7grams:3grams(ish) and that would put you at 2.3:1 ratio -which is very good according to what I have studied.

Supposedly at this ratio you have optimum ability to build (muscle, hormones, etc) and there is a very positive anti-cancer effect. You could even go a little higher with the borage/EPO and it would not negatively affect your ratios.

The other thing to think about as far as fatty acids is the EPA and DHA which you will get with fish or fish oil, but not with flax.

All in all it sounds like you are doing great in this regard. As far as NBE is concerned you are creating a sound foundation on which growth will be possible and likely.

Thank you for all these questions - it keeps me focused on why I do what I do to stay healthy.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Waxingmoon,

Thanks for being a battery pack to all the flashlights out there! Mine is working a little better now :)

Seems I had my ratios a bit reversed, but now I'm closer to understanding. I will seek out sources of EPA and DHA, as I only eat salmon once a week...

Peace and continued brightness on your path,
Durga

Okay, here is what I am doing differently - in case this routine has a negative effect on my memory or something... lol.

For the last 2 weeks or so:

Taking Goat's Rue
---- started with 1 600mg capsule and I am not up to 2 a day. Possibly I will increase to 3 a day. Supposedly can lower blood sugar, so I have to watch out for symptoms. My theory is that the galactogouges will not trash my estrogen/progesterone balance if they do not act like phytoestrogens. We will see won't we...

Stopped vitex
---- in order to see the potential effect of Goat's Rue. This way if GR has a synergistic effect with prolactin, the vitex won't get in the way. It was also very obvious that the vitex alone was not going to help my body create enough progesterone.

Using progesterone cream again:
---- 40 mg days 12 - 28. Estrogen dominance symptoms began to increase again and since I have stopped the vitex it is obvious my body is not creating enough on its own. I may drop the dosage to 20mg - that is if I start to have normal length cycles. Right now they are coming in at day 21 -23.

Increasing EPO
---- my Omega3 is pretty high now with fish oil and sardines in my diet. Perhaps the extra Omega 6 will help with NBE.

Additional massage with Fenugreek
---- I had some liquid capsules so I am using them for this since taking them orally was a disaster. I do this only at night because it is a sticky mess and has that 'oh so yummy pancake house' odor.

Taking GABA
---- 750 mg at night. Can't find a time to take more since it says not to take it with protein. Has definitely helped me with sleep -but I have no idea why since supposedly GABA cannot cross the blood/brain barrier. Perhaps they don't know everything about this supplement.

Taking (drumroll) Maca... again...
---- yeah, after all my whining... lol. Well, you know there is this half a bag... and I actually like the taste of the powder in my morning protein drink... and I am not taking as much... so, I wait with abated (and possibly stinky) breath to see if it makes an effect up top or does some more caboose remodeling. I am definitely 'watchin my backside' on this one...

Everything else is about the same supplement wise.

Exercises:

Added a power lifting set of decline bench press.
---- 1 time per week. Working 5 sets of 50lb, 60lb, 70lb, 80lb and 90lb anywhere from 15 - 9 reps for each. Then pyramiding back down from 90 - 50lb doing about 4 sets of each. Total of 10 sets in all. Boy do my pecs feel the effect the next day. Definitely helping define and build my chest.

Added swimming
---- 1 time per week. Swimming 2 laps then walking 2 laps for 30 minutes. Exhausting workout... very aerobic and challenging to the legs especially. Want to increase this to 2x per week if I can find some time.

Still working out 2 - 3 hours per day in my regular routines.

I will record my stats again when I get some more time and can find where the tape measure walked off to... lol.

Found the tape measure... finally....


Above breasts : 33"
Across nipples : 35"
Under breasts : 29"

Waist : 27"
Hips : 36"
Big ole butt : 39"

What's up with me getting a smaller rib cage?? I started NBE with a 31incher...

I think maybe my cunning new plan is working, but it could also just be swelling. If I hit the above 35" mark, then I will know for sure things are improving again.

Hey, Waxingmoon! I am planning to add maca to my new nbe program. I want a bigger booty, too! Would you know how many milligrams does 1/2 tbsp of maca have? Thanks!

Hi Lena,
According to my package, 1/2 to 1 tsp = 3.5 grams of powder?! Yeah -that's helpful - as if the dosage would be the same for both...

My best guess is that they mean that 1 tsp has 3.5 grams of gelatanized powder. So 1/2 tsp would have 1.75 grams or 1750 mg. Now since this is a gelatanized powder it may be more like an extract - meaning more powerful than the herb would normally be.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Edit: I see now that you asked about a 1/2 tablespoon, which would be 1 and 1/2 teaspoons, so the dosage you are asking about would be 5250 mg. (that sounds like a lot to me... does that sound like a lot to you?... maybe that's why my buttocks flared up so much the first time I took it...)

Okay, so this next thing is really weird and means virtually nothing...


A while back someone mentioned a breast measurement guide that suggested bending forward and measure the hanging breast size in order to decide what bra cup was correct.

(I can see how this would have benefits for those women who sag quite a bit... I mean a measurement across the chest when they stand up would not be accurate since the nipple line would be lower than non sagging breasts .... a detail that my little rascals have never and probably never will experience... that is unless I were to tie some lead weights to the nipples... and even then we would just be talking about some really, really long nipples without any actual breast sag... but I digress...)

So, let's see, where was I? Oh yeah, the bending forward measuring thingy...

So I did this months ago and was giddily laughing about how it gave me another inch, which as I recall then was 35 inches.... Just did it again and I got a 36 inch measurement!!!

So okay, it means nothing except that I am an inch bigger from the last time I did this... but still... it's sort of cool...

okay, shutting up now...

Wow, that is too much! Haha! Maca is a bit expensive here in my area and I could only get a one-month supply for 600 mg a day. That means I have to wait a bit before I get a bigger booty. LOL. Congratulations on your growth, by the way. c",)

Hey waxingmoon.

I have some serious amounts of stress too, pretty much all the time, no end in sight on that one.

You're an inspiration, and I'm glad that I can come to this board and see someone else who has almost the exact same problems as I do.

Thank you for being so persistant. I hope you keep growing. :-)

Joey

Joey,
Thank you for your kind words. Best wishes to your plan being successful.


Now- slight change in plans.

I ran out of goat's rue... That stuff is 'not available in stores' and I am too disorganized to have ordered more. I went up to taking 3 pills total per day and the only notable effects were afternoon headaches and a greater tendency for more facial acne. I have also had some disturbing stomach issues lately and my intuition is that the goat's rue is to blame.

So, here is my new cunning plan...

Why not try the method of promoting estrogens during the first 2 weeks of my cycle and progesterone for the last 2 weeks... (well, duh, what about your estrogen dominance... -hey, hold your horses, I'm getting to that).

Ahem, since as has been pointed out that I am estrogen dominant, and since I know from having read the illustrious Dr. Lee that estrogen dominance can occur even in situations where a woman has low total estrogen (she just also has much lower progesterone) I could use a plan to promote estrogen as long as concurrently I was promoting some progesterone.

So this is my idea:

During first 2 weeks of cycle:

Am NBE (meaning in addition to all that other stuff I take for health in general)

Fennel (I will have to work out how much ultimately, but for now just 1 cap)
Maca - 1/2 of 1/2 tablespoon (yeah, along with socks, those nifty measuring spoons just vanish in my house)
No Crushed Flaxseed (or else it will cling to all those estrogen receptors and block the fennel)

Pm NBE
Fennel
5 - 10 mg of progesterone cream - I will have to work out just how much so that it does not screw with my cycle, but does help balance the estrogen.

During last 2 weeks of cycle:

Am NBE

Crushed Flax seed - 2 tablespoons


Pm NBE

progesterone cream 40 mg

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Still am taking the EPO, GABA, Whey protein, blah, blah blah as before...

By the way - I do not recommend this plan to anyone else - I am taking progesterone in a way that has not been documented to be helpful. I am EXPERIMENTING (probably won't grow another arm, but I could screw up my ovulation - and also I am increasing my total dose of a hormone, which comes with some risk... so beware)

anyway... just putting it down here so I can refer back on start dates of this cunning plan.

waxingmoon

Hi waxingmoon,

Do you consider flaxseed oil to be as clingy as the crushed flaxseed?

Mango

Hi Mango,
A bottle of the flaxseed oil list the lignan amount as 5 - 13 mg per tablespoon. A tablespoon of the crushed flaxseed has 50 - 130 mg of lignan.

It is the lignan property that binds to the estrogen receptors.

So, no, the flaxseed oil will not be as 'clingy' as the crushed - and the oil has more of the omega 3 fatty acids.

Hope that has helped,
waxingmoon

I am in the phase 2 part of my new cunning plan. At this point I am using no estrogenic herbs and adding the flaxseed to my protein drink. My progesterone use will continue at around 40 mg per day until the first day of my period.

I feeeel larger. My nemesis the tape measure does not agree, but I am plumping out of the top of my 34a push ups and I am seeing some side boobage from head on (one of the things I am really wanting is to have the sides of my breasts round outward to at least the edges of my ribcage... that and a breast crease, I really want an under the boob breast crease... and some really full tops... oh, and a B cup...)

So while I wait for all that to happen I wanted to share another insight.

The goat's rue may or may not have anything to do with what is happening this month. I just took it until it ran out and only got the dosage up to 3 capsules a day. But here is the really interesting part. I lost about 5 lbs and my waistline and butt decreased by an inch. No loss whatsoever in the boobage.

These were not lasting changes since I stopped the Goat's rue, but I can see how if I were to use it again and keep at it this could be a very good way to reduce while keeping the twins.

Now I must find that site and order some more. (I am a little worried about using my card on the internet anymore... some thief stole my info and money from my account... probably part of that DNE site getting hacked scam that is going on although I had ordered from DNE back in Nov 07 and the thefts occured in March... buyer beware for sure from now on...)

waxingmoon

Well, this is strange and it may be more about the bra than anything else...

I have really been uncomfortable in the 34a's lately. Just pinched and squished every day. My band measurement had not changed, in fact throughout my NBE journey my rib measurement has gone down, so I was puzzled what was the deal.

I bought a 34b and it fits rather nice. Mind you it is a padded push up bra, but I do bulge and push up out of it.

Which is all very nice and weird at the same time. I mean considering where I started from this is just amazing. However, it also makes me realize that I am not ready to stop yet.

I mean if the naked breast me is a B cup, then I need to be larger than that for my frame. I still don't have that "adult" shape to my breast that I was assuming would come with the B territory.

I think I am supposed to be a 36 band. The 36a test bra I have does not fit like the 34b. I need more width to fill it out (that elusive side boobage).

But hey, I'm still growing! That is just amazing in itself.

I don't know if it is my new plan of using mild estrogenic stuff days 1 - 12 and progesterone days 12 - 28 or if it is a lingering effect of the goat's rue...

Now I really want to get more goat's rue.

Not stopping at B... now I want to see what a C looks like on me...

... the quest continues,

waxingmoon

I realize how super sized my program page is so I thought I would post an update of my NBE/health routine as it currently exists.

AM Routine

Wake up after 7 - 8 hours sleep minimum - read motivational stuff
Earl Grey green tea along with Eve's forum reading
Breakfast - Whey protein, yogurt, psyllium husk, (days 1 - 12 -crushed flax seed and 1/4 Tablespoon Maca gelatanized powder)

Shower and massage breasts with hot water
Massage breasts with lavender oil and lavender hand lotion approx. 5 min.

Vitamins

Multi - Brand varies, but always food based and moderate B vitamin amounts
Methyl B12 - 1000 mcg
Ubiquinol -Bluebonnet (a more active form of Co Q10) - 50 mg
Ester C - 2000 mg
Bioflavonoids - 500 mg (they help the vitamin C work better)
Evening Primrose Oil - 1300 mg
Calcium/magnesium - 500mg/225mg
Codliver Oil - 2 capsules or 1 teaspoon oil
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
L-tryptophan - 500 mg
Fish oil - 2 grams
Vitamin D - 1000 IU
Creatine monohydrate - 5 grams
Milk thistle extract 175 mg (30 days total use then I will stop)
Fennel herb - 840 mg (only during days 1 - 12 of cycle)

(yeah, I know - I rattle when I walk after taking all of that stuff ... lol)

Afternoon Routine

2 - 4 hours of exercise varying from light to intense
A couple of light meals of usually fish or turkey
Another cup of Earl grey green tea

Evening Routine

Evening meal usually fish or turkey or vegetarian followed by a whey protein drink.

Vitamins (30 minutes prior to bed)

Ester C - 2000 mg
Bioflavonoids - 500 mg (they help the vitamin C work better)
Evening Primrose Oil - 1300 mg
Calcium/magnesium - 500mg/225mg
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
L-tryptophan - 500 mg
Fish oil - 2 grams
GABA - 750 mg
Melatonin time released - 3 mg
CoQ10 - 100mg
Selenium - 100 mg
Milk thistle extract 175 mg (30 days total use then I will stop)
Fennel herb - 420 mg (only during days 1 - 12 of cycle)

And then I rattle off to bed and write motivational stuff.
Progesterone Cream (5mg days 1 - 12) (40 mg days 12 - 28)

I hope to add Goat's rue back into the routine and I will take it every day of the cycle. I also want to increase my potassium to about 2400 mg a day, so I will be getting both of those supplements soon.

That's it for now.

waxingmoon

I just purchased several more 34b bras... they fit!!!! Even the one without padding fits (okay, maybe a little loose, but not very much)...

I really still find it hard to believe...

I have started using a pump - a rather primitive one, not a noogle or BB. If I keep it up I will get a noogleberry - but I have to prove to myself I am willing to do this every day. Hopefully pumping will help to encourage more growth at the top of the breast.

I also am going to be doing more chest press in my home gym. We just set it up better so I will be adding a couple of intense workouts to my normal routine. This should also help increase the top of the breast area.

It has taken me almost 2 years to get to B size - I figure another year or 2 to get to a C cup.

waxingmoon

Well, okay, so I am somewhere in the land of big A, little B cup. Mostly it is righty who is not filling the cup. Lefty is holding up her end of the bargain. But, there is this chilling observation I have... am I fitting these bras the way another B cup would???

The reason I ask is because I have been using my breast pump. It is a 'Doc Johnson' model that has embarrassed and mortified me ever since I purchased it. It is not just that it is BRIGHT pink... it is not just that as a double pump it looks like some mad doctor's invention sticking off of my chest (a mad doctor with absolutely no aesthetic taste... bright pink?)... it is not just that I have to go through a sort of gymnastic kind of contortion to hold the cups on my breasts and pump at the same time (think creative use of knees)... it is not just that my husband nearly dies laughing anytime he sees me with this device suctioned onto my breasts like a couple of little bright pink lampreys (he keeps waking up early when I am having my 'me time' in front of the computer)... it is not just that I can perceive no difference in spite of using this thing consistently for 'over a week' (a WHOLE week damn it!)...

It is all of those things ... and, I do not even come close to filling the domes. I am not sure what size these things are since they came in only one size. I have searched, mind you very lazily, on the forum for info that would indicate what size the BB, or Noogle cups are -but no results to my query.

I have made a deal with myself that if I will continue to pump daily for 1 full month I can buy the Noogle pump (and destroy that hideous Doc Johnson model). We will see if my sense of mortification and dread will overwhelm me before I have any encouraging results.

sigh,
waxingmoon (did I mention they were BRIGHT pink...)

It is fun to catch up on your history. I really enjoy the pumping: turn the radio up, read the paper and relax. If you can't do it 3-4X per week for 10 min. each side then try 15 min. 2x a week. Sometimes I do the right twice as long as the left to balance it out. It is important to drink lots of water or tea, whatever. This is all I do (in addition to husband's sucking nipples) and it keeps me in the A-B game. Don't expect results in a month: I have been doing this for almost 3 years (but only this).

Hi Lynn,
Thanks for the encouragement. I seem to have gotten over the initial 'horror of it all' and I am now enjoying the process.

In fact I feel a little odd now if I don't have a chance to use the suction at least once a day. I am up to about 30 minutes once a day and I sometimes have time for a second session.

The darn thing is still just as pink and ugly as before though... lol. I have gotten into the habit of placing a shirt over the contraption while I am pumping since my husband seems mysteriously drawn to the process. He is not in anyway discouraging about it, but as I fear for his safety if keeps laughing that hard - thus the 'shield'.

I seem to have begun responding to the suction and I increase about and inch or more immediately, but the results disappear quickly. I finally figured out these are the equivalent to the Noogle medium cups in size. I do not fill them yet, but I can see progress toward that.

I decided to hold off on purchasing the Noogle until either these cups break, the minimalistic cushion around the rims becomes too painful, or I fill these domes. I mean after all, suction is suction. I paid for this horrible thing so I might as well use it.

I am definitely responding to this method. My breasts seem larger than ever, but I still am tape dysfunctional, so the measurements do not reflect the growth. I am filling the B bras even more.

So, what an interesting journey.

waxingmoon

Nice to hear your response. I wanted to mention a couple other things besides drinking lots of water. I just use an Evenflo breast pump, cost $45 or so. Since I have breastfed before I recognize all the breast feelings; some small aches when they want to activate, or need fluid, and the crashing hunger. Don't be fooled that this is what you might be inducing by pumping a lot! You may also get VERY tired in the afternoon or whenever; just put your feet up and try to take a 20-60 min. nap. It's important not to ignore the soporific feeling! The extra effect is that if you nap of course you will be up later, but I think that being able to stay up late is a benefit of pumping. Another less documented phenomenon is the sixth sense you can increase with pumping: don't ask me what is going on here, but I am way more receptive than I used to be: know who is calling when the phone rings, see things before they happen sometimes. The mother sense. And then there's the Oxytocin, which makes you happy and fun to be around. The libido knows no bounds. I call it suffering from euphoria but the secret is just the breast pump!

I just wanted to add a way to keep the domes on that I did (yes I had one of those "premitive" devices long long ago). I took an old soft cup bra (no underwire) and cut two wholes for the tubing to fit through. then I would use it to hold the cups on. I found it highly embarrassing too. I ended up using it in bed while fully covered in the comforter and while watching tv. only way I could stand it. I don't think I got any permanent growth from this contraption but thought the bra idea might help you. Congrats on all the progress!

BTW I think these cups are equivalent in size to about a medium BB domes. If you measure the domes I can compare them to my bb domes if you want.

Hi Lynn and Keiyah,

Thanks for the info and advice. I have been using suction now for a month and there have been a lot of interesting effects.

I can't say I have noticed any enhancement of extra-sensory abilities yet, but Lynn, I would not doubt what you say. Oxytocin is likely being enhanced and it would be an evolutionary advantage for that hormone to improve all sensory abilities no matter how latent. Hyper-awareness and motherhood seem to go hand in hand.

I guess I have grown enough that the domes will stay on now unless I use my arms too vigorously - like type when they are first on. The bra idea sounds like a good one, Keiyah - I may convert one of mine.

I am now pumping at least once a day for 30 minutes and several times per week 2 sessions instead of one. The best time for me to do it is when I am at the computer. There is definitely an addictive quality to this method.

So far absolutely no lingering capillary marks or sustained red marks from the rings past a couple of hours after I take them off. I swell about an inch and a half to two inches immediately which goes away fairly quickly. I am really not into measuring that much and instead I use my bras to figure out how much I have grown.

There is definitely some sustained size increase. I tried on a swimsuit top that used to swamp me unless I put in lots of padding. It fit very well without any padding at all. I put on a tank top with molded cups that used to fit fairly well and I was too big for it.

If I had known how quickly and easily I would respond to suction I would have done this a long time ago.

Something interesting though regarding hormone balance. I stopped the progesterone completely this cycle - I had a session of night sweats after I applied my normal amount. Night sweats are a sure sign of low estrogen. I began taking a single fennel capsule both day and night (I had been stopping fennel as soon as I began using progesterone during the second half of my cycle). I also stopped the crushed flaxseed. It seems to have worked and I am sleeping well with no night sweats. I don't know exactly what has happened, but I suspect the suction has created a change in hormone needs... we will just see how this plays out.

Anyway, before I ramble on any longer...

waxingmoon

WaxingMoon I have another question about the progesterone cream. In your opinion, after having taken the cream for awhile and then stopping, did you ever feel like your body would become dependent on it? I remember you said like it took away your anxiety, which is good. Basically, do you think it's possible that by adding progesterone you taught your body to make less, because of the body feeling like it no longer needed to produce it? Do you think that is possible? I don't want to seem negative or worrisome, but you definitely have ample experience with pc and you are smart, so you're the first person I knew to ask. And when considering taking pc, that's my only main worry about it.

Hi Bianca,
The wonderful thing about our body is how much it self regulates. Not only do our bodies produce hormones, but they constantly monitor how much hormone is in the system and adapt the production to what is there.

External introduction of any whole hormone (as opposed to a precursor agent the body would use to make the hormone) can result in an 'over-dose' and the body will respond by lowering or stopping its own production to try and create balance. This is a temporary response and once the level of the hormone drops to below what the body wants it to be then hormone production would begin again.

So in the case of progesterone, and as well, estrogen, a person using a substance that attaches to the hormone receptors can alter their body's hormone production - temporarily... All that would be needed for the body to restore hormone production would be to stop giving the body the exterior source.

Can a person become addicted to progesterone? Not in the classic sense. Progesterone is very necessary for feelings of wellbeing. Just review the numerous symptoms of estrogen dominance and you will see how a person feels with out enough progesterone. The question would be, can the situation that caused the progesterone imbalance be resolved.

If a person only uses progesterone cream and does nothing to deal with the cause of the symptom in the first place they will never 'balance' - at least not for long. The external source of progesterone will stop the symptoms, but as soon as they quit using the cream the symptoms will return.

If you have read my program then you have seen my earnest attempts at getting to the cause of my estrogen dominance. Not only did I use progesterone cream, but I also did my best to lower exposure to external estrogens. I did many things to resolve stress. I used flaxseed to block my estrogen receptors from more potent estrogen. I also used vitex to try and stimulate my body's natural progesterone production. I took nutritional substances like vitamin C and protein to assist my body with hormone production.

Each time my symptoms abated I lowered or stopped the progesterone cream. I have been constantly on the lookout for signs of progesterone overdose.

You are very wise to be cautious about using progesterone cream. It is a hormone identical to what our body produces. Used incorrectly it can put a person a risk. Used properly and it can be a God-send.

I am very glad I have used progesterone and if my symptoms warrant it I will begin using it again.

Hope this has answered your question,
waxingmoon

Yes, that did help a lot. I think what I should do is have my hormone levels 'evaluated' first. Would I just go to my doctor and ask them, or is there a way to do it without going through a doctor? I'm worried about hormone levels being normal and that meaning that my boobs were meant to be this side or no program working. I'm fairly certain I have estrogen dominance, I just want to be sure. Or I will just try vitex first since it's not bioidentical. And it is comforting to know that the body will bounce back after a hormone is removed.

I'm also trying to rid myself of false estrogens like pesticides and cleaners. This is one of the hardest things to do. Baking soda and vinegar just doesn't cut it in my bathroom (hard water). Thanks for your insight and the time that you take for each reply that you make.

Hi Bianca,
You can order saliva tests online. There are several places - just google saliva test. There are also places you can have blood testing of hormones done without going through your doctor. A company is always sending me a magazine about vitamins and their club members can order blood tests. Here is their internet site:

http://www.lef.org/

Personally they are a bit over the top when it comes to the whole 'aging is a lack of proper nutrition and let us sell you these expensive vitamins' thing, but they do actually follow scientific studies. They just skew everything towards purchasing their products. I have been tempted to become a member just to have access to the blood tests though.

But let's just say you had these tests done and they said your levels were in the normal range. Great news!!! You are healthy!!!

NBE is perfectly possible for those who have hormone balance - in fact I would say it is more likely for those with balance than for those who are out of balance. I am one of those cases who in my attempts to achieve hormone balance I actually grew. This is probably very rare.

Now that I am in a state of balance or near balance I find myself in a precarious predicament. To further increase my breast size using herbal NBE I will cause myself to lose hormonal balance. Let me tell you I have worked too hard to give the balance up. I like feeling healthy.

This newest phase to my NBE is nothing short of remarkable to me. I have held off talking about it that much in part because it really was hard for me to get started, but suction has proven to be a remarkable success for me.

I am not concerned whether I will achieve permanent growth -the method is so easy and maintenance a breeze. So far with suctioning about 30 minutes once or twice a day my breast are constantly bigger than ever before. I am getting swelling of at least an inch every time I suction and the size remains for longer and longer. When I suction more than once a day I seem to retain even more.

I know I am like a kid with a new toy, but really the effects are so meaningful to me and they have come with such little effort I am astounded. And I am still using my cheap, dinky little, ugly pump. I haven't ordered the sleek attractive Noogleberry yet - and if I can make myself get off my butt I will have that Cadillac of pumps soon. (yeah I know all you Brava and BB users- yours are great too, but the Noogle is budget friendly).

So - I try hard not to be the pied piper and call everyone over to the suction side... but it is tempting. I am sure results vary and I must say it took me almost a month to truly become consistent with it. It is not for everyone, but suction may very well be the solution for the poor responders, those with unresolved hormone imbalances, or those seeking non herbal NBE.

So... in my long winded way I am saying Bianca that I am sure you will find a suitable NBE and if you are wanting to forgo the whole herbal route there are definitely some other methods to explore.

Best wishes - and yes, it can be a real bother to avoid solvents. If you must use them then open the windows, use a vapor mask (not just a dust mask), wear double gloves and rinse thoroughly.

waxingmoon

Waxingmoon, I am happy to hear about your results. The suction induces good feelings all over in addition to quick plumpness in the breasts. It is the only thing I can recommend, and since I can't tell anyone else, I like to share my experience here since it has been so rewarding and not costed past the initial $50 investment. I have had two weeks of kids and houseguests with no privacy and when I woke up this morning my breasts were like back to AA. I got a little time to myself and pumped 15 min. each side (all the time I had today) and this evening my breasts are full again. Drinking lots of fluids is key. I like that I don't have to mess around with herbs and hormones. Pumping can be reinstated; it is not "permanent"; it is "maintained". I feel better about going camping w/o electricity for 9 days now, knowing I can get them back when I return. Amazing and rather natural; we're just fake wet nurses.

I wish I had measured better in the beginning. The tape measure is just not showing the results that I am getting. I am not sure why, except that the breast is such a 3 dimensional object it does not lend itself to a flat tape measure.

The only way I can chart my progress is with bras, and even they are so variable from one to the next. I do have a completely unlined bra that I use and I can definitely say the volume of my breasts is continuing to expand. This unlined bra is a 34b. A month ago I filled it with just a little bit of looseness which I interpreted as making me a small B cup. The looseness is hardly there anymore. I can envision a time when that bra is going to be stretched tight.

It is blowing my mind. aaaaa to B. Wow.

I am also realizing that the shape of my breast is not exactly what I thought it was. I am so used to seeing artificial breasts that I didn't understand how much a breast fills out to the sides. At least that is what is happening to me. They don't point forward as much as they point sort of lateral. What I am saying is that here I have these very normally shaped breasts and I just never realized what the shape of a breast really was. The little flat things I had were always just so 2 dimensional I never had a clue as to what they would look like when they started to fill up.

That is why I stuck with wearing the A cup for so long. Even when it was getting tight and uncomfortable I just didn't think I had grown because they weren't pointing forward.

I just took more photos this last weekend. Wow. They show it. Now don't get me wrong I am not getting a big head about it - and truly they need to be a bit bigger to fit my frame better - but I never, ever though I would get this far.

And more importantly. Had I ever given in and had an artificial enlargement I would never have seen the true shape of my breasts. It is worth every moment of these last nearly 2 years to me to see what I was truly supposed to have breast wise.

waxingmoon

Waxingmoon,
I hope you post your last comment on the main page; it is really good. Your comments about natural breasts illustrate why we are here in the first place. We don't want fake boobs, we just want to look our best; not like someone else. There are all shapes and sizes; why not be a tight round a or b cup instead of shooting for a c cup? We all have our own shape, and we will not be sagging in old age. I wonder if you will get to lactating? Hope you are eating well.

I was just wondering how long you took Maca for and how much of an increase you saw while taking it? Also, since you have stopped have you seen a decrease? Do you think it was the Maca that made your butt grow or could it have been any other herbs or exercise that may have been a factor in increasing the butt?
Thanks

Hi Lynn,
I wonder how many women would opt to surgically alter their forms if they knew that natural enhancement was possible. My goal has always been to create what I think I was designed to have breast wise had I not suffered a hormonal imbalance.

Hi Double D,
The butt enhancing properties of Maca revealed themselves before I had even completed a month of use. Was it the Maca? Well, the effect did not begin until I used the maca. I was taking what turned out to be a huge amount of it. The steady increase halted after I stopped taking the huge amount (but, the butt remained). It might have been a combination of things. My program is quite specific to what I was using with it. Maybe it was just some strange stimulation of estrogen receptors in my butt from the progesterone. All I know for sure is that it has not increased any further... thank God...

I would say I went from an A cup butt to a C cup butt - in other words I was averaging about 36 inches at the biggest part and that increased to 40 inches - now, not all of it is fat, because the cellulite was not enhanced very much. I routinely work out and the shape is very 'lifted'. Just yesterday someone commented on my 'very unsagging' butt... lol. Yeah - it is huge and high and round. I alternate between being horrified and proud of it. It is quite a sight. Had I only had this success with my breasts I would be in D cup territory... lol.

waxingmoon

I really appreciate you getting back to me. Exactly how much did you end up taking of the Maca? I know you started out at 1/2 a tsp, but did you increase this dosage? I am taking the capsules and they are 750 mg which I thought is quite alot per capsule and the bottle says up to 4 capsules a day can be taken. I have started out a one but I may increase the dosage. If I were you I would be proud of my big butt! At least its not all fat and cellulite. As for Maca as a breast enhancement, did you see an increases? Also, congrats on your results so far and thanks for your posts.

Hi Double D,
When I first began taking Maca I took much more than the package recommended. The package said to take 1/2 to 1 teaspoon and I was taking at least 1/2 TABLESPOON (1.5 teaspoons) up to a full TABLESPOON (3 teaspoons)... (Yeah - I was into the more is more idea at that time... lol). This meant I was taking in a minimum of 5250 - 10,000!!!! mg per day. I was very stupid in doing this and it was a good thing the only notable effect was my big ole boingin butt...

I DO NOT recommend anyone use this much - EVER - just because I survived does not make it a good idea.

I would say to limit your dosage to 1000 - 1500 mg per day. That is what I took when I used up the rest of the bag I had and it may have helped me with my breasts at the lower dosage level. It is hard for me to pinpoint what has helped me grow since I do quite a few things and modify my program quite a bit. I do not at all feel it had any breast effect at the higher dosage.

Hope this helps you decide what to do maca-wise. I think it is a worthy herb and may work sort of like fenugreek as a precursor to several hormones. I personally really liked the taste of the gelatenized powder - but now that I have run out I do not plan on using it anymore.

Once again to anyone reading this - my program page is as much a 'what to do' as it is a 'what not to do' kind of story in regards to maca. We need to always use the least amount of any substance that it takes to achieve results. Maca may have been used by people for hundreds of years - but that does not make it safe - anything - even water can kill you if you get too much of it. Thank God my obit will not read "Stupid woman drowns herself in a sea of Maca"

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Hi Waxingmoon,
I am happy to have my 10 and 13 yr olds back in school and have time to pump 10-15 min each side about 5 days a week. I admit with taking fenugreek seed tablets it is inducing naps, but I take them. It is really important to drink a lot of water. I am looking at shape since starting the fenugreek, and my breasts are going quite wide. It would take a bra to show the size. I think we all dream of that perfect bra that will fit and shape, but largeness counts, and I am happy with where I am now. Fake boobs are just that: FAKE. They are not shaped normal and they are not natural. I hope anyone who is not feeling sexy will wear a white T shirt out downtown one day and see the looks they get. Natural breasts are so much beautiful than fake ones. I would recommend the fenugreek, but watch the nausea in the morning. I'm taking about 6-9 (610 mg capsules)each day in addition to the Evenflo pump and lots of water and rest.

I thought it was time for an update...

I have been using suction method now since early July and I am doing about 20 - 30 minutes twice a day. I started with the hideous pink medium sized domes and now I have the attractive large Noogleberry domes as well.

I can't start with the large domes. I have to use the mediums for about 5 - 10 minutes or else the large ones just ineffectively 'fart' air while I furiously pump and at the same time clutch them to my chest with both hands... (think creative use of knees).

I have got to say there is nothing dignified about suction method. When you are successful in getting the domes to cling tight then you have these big ole whopping domes projecting from your chest. I thought the clear domes would add a level of elegance that the pink ones lacked... HA! What I can tell you is now I can clearly see my breasts which is interesting, but not elegant. I mean the big boob in a can look is somewhat impressive, but the 'suctioned' nipple is ... well... disturbing... You are also never going to have the breast centered in the dome, so the nipple will point in various directions. Mine look like a piggy's snout searching for truffles. (no, you will probably never get that image out of your mind...)

However, I am happy, Happy, HAPPY with the results. These are some B cup beauties I am sporting now. My measurement is never down from the 35 inches and it is slightly creeping above it sometimes. Ah the elusive 36 how I long to behold you.

At nipples - 35.007 inches
Below breast - 29 inches
Above breast - 32.5 inches

waist - 27 inches
hips - 36 inches
Big old butt - 40 whopping inches


There is no hour-glass in there, but at least I am not the dreaded triangle.

I have added back more progressive weight training - which means I am doing chest press again. I had slacked off something fierce. I refuse to weigh myself in order to avoid confronting what my eyes are telling me. Shadow is too big... must lose some shadow.

So, I am beginning the quest to lose size without losing boobage. The only way to do that is to push the muscle building so I can tone up as much as lose fat. And the only way to build muscle is to push the weights around... grrr. Must develop my training mind... training mind has turned to jello... must become somebody fierce... like Amazon warrior princess with big ole boobs and a lean muscular body and impressive thighs and buttocks................

...grrr....


waxingmoon

Hi Waxingmoon,
I am an active reader of the forum and I love to read your posts. You have such an exquisite sense of humor and I learned so much from you...thank you for that.
I am taking herbs and 3 days ago I got my NB and started pumping. I saw the pictures from NB forum and it looks very promising however I have medium size nipples already and I wanted to avoid them to increase more. I discovered that when I tape the nipples before I pump they don't change the shape after suction. I know is early days and I didn't start retaining the swelling yet but it might be worth to try.
Best Wishes

Hey waxingmoon,

i am new to the site and thinking about starting the program...i'm extremely overwhelmed by the amount of information on the site though! You seem to be a great sourse of reliable info...and i was wondering if you minded helping me out a bit??

according to the questionnaires it seems i am estrogen dominant with very low progesterone, low estrogen...

that being the case i picked up some progesterone cream, fenugreek, red clover, and flaxseed oil. why i chose these...not sure they just seemed to be some of the most commonly used and weren't too expensive.

from what you're saying here, i should only use the progesterone cream from days 14-28 and the other estrogenic herbs from days 1-14?? is that right, or should i take the estrogenics everyday? i am thoroughly confused, ha.

thanks for your help!!

Hi DesJ,
Thanks for the idea about taping the nipples. I am overly sensitive to adhesives, so I probably won't go that route. My nipples and I have had relationship problems from waaaay back - ever since they developed and my breasts did not. Well I say developed - even when 'calm' they project out about an inch and when they are 'upset' -they will not be ignored. I swear they could poke through steel.

One of the reasons I have been such a 'bra' person is that my nipples have always been so -out there. It is like the rest of my breast was an insecure reclusive person and the nipples have been unrelenting politicians wanting to shake hands with everyone they meet. I swear it was like having a flashing neon billboard on my chest - "Here is where the breasts should be!" I think without the nippers I could have been more quietly flat chested.

So now they are finally getting their way and the breasts have started to become more extroverted themselves. That the nipples are going to be enhanced along with the breasts is a given as far as I am concerned. Maybe if they are stretched out they will lose some of their tensile strength. We'll see....


Hi Kyleigh,
You are correct in the usage of progesterone - days 12 - 28. If I were you I would limit the estrogen support to days 1 - 12. I would also not use red clover since it can suppress progesterone. I have found fennel to be effective. The fenugreek may work well for you since it is a galactogogue and will not supply estrogen directly. Be sure with it to monitor your symptoms since it is known to lower blood sugar. Be on the lookout for unexplained headaches, etc.

With all your herbs you are looking for the minimal dosage to get the job done. Be sure to ramp up - meaning start with smaller dosages then gradually increase.

You will also want to make sure your diet is high in protein and you may want to take some extra vitamin C. This will help you body to build the hormones you need.

Good luck with your quest. If you haven't already, build a program page. It can be invaluable in tracking your progress. I will be glad to help you in any way I can. Let me know if you have further questions.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

HI waxingmoon, i'm new to nbe rather confused with whats going on.
i'm 23 and my size is 31aa(not sure, too small to be measured). 158cm and 46kg. Always single.
Coffee drinker since 17, 1-2 cups each day, stop drinking for a week now. Non-smoker, non-drinker. I will have bad menstruation cramps on the first day of period, had to take at least 3 panadols to ease the pain and discomfort! However the cramp had reduced so much during the last period, no painkillers needed! Good sign due to taking the herbs?
I took grobust for 2 mths about 1/2 year ago (i discontinue as nothing visible happen, only felt a slight fleshy-ness on my boobs for a while). Too expensive for the sake of experimentation.
I had started on nbe for about 2mths or so with different herbs i bought off shelf or made by myself. AND ONLY YESTERDAY I REALISED I HAD BEEN TAKING UNDERDOSE HERBS!

Here's my rather irregular timeline for taking the herbs (once a day):

-1x500mg FG for about 2 mths,
-1x1000mg fennel seed for about 2mth(capsules i made myself, grinded seeds, is this ok?)
-2x 500mg Evening primose oil for about 1.5 mths (changed to 2x1000mg since this week)
-2x 160mg saw palmetto for 1 mth (softgels, indicated to contain 160mg (berry), 85-95%fatty acids, 'clinical potency'. I'm not sure if i got this type of SP softgels correct.
-1 tablet bio iron tablets( i took 1 instead of 3 per day as stated on the bottle) for 2mths
- 1x500mg 'memory boost' pills, for my bad memory, but will include in my list here since it contains ginko biloba leaf extract 40mg per capsule, for 2 weeks.

FOOD:
-500ml full cream milk powder(4-5 full tablespoons) + purple wild yam powder every night (1-2 table spoons) each night since 1.5mths
-plus other soy/proteins like eggs and soy beverage which are taken on less regular basis.
-i might add 1 table spoon of pure purifica mirifica into my milk, but had stopped cos i had bought the last box of it from the shop and they seem to have no intention of bringing in the product in the future. I have been looking out for similar product

despite of the underdosing, i experience tingling and slight pain sensation on my right breast these few days, YIPPIE! My left breast is actually slightly bigger than my right, and i felt slightly fullness in both of them, but not quite visible to the eyes.

Infact in where i lived, its not easy to get herb capsules, other than those common ones, and is sooo overpriced! Those we buy from the shelf can cost at least 10 times more expensive than DIY herb capsules. I have problems getting mexican wild yam/wild yam roots here, so i took purple yam powder instead, was said to be nutritional for boobs, but not sure about potency


After reading the programs stated on the forum, i wonder is there any minimum or average dosage of herbs to be taken for nbe programs.
However, in the meantime i'll take this amount of herbs from now on:

2x500mg FG
1x160mg SP
2x500mg fennel seed
2x1000mg EPO
1x500mg of 'memory boost) -- 40mg gingko biloba
1 bio iron tablet
---- 3x daily, morning, afternoon and before sleep + my boobie diet.

Is is enough? Do i have to change doses according to the monthly cycle?
In fact i'm worried about having problems in my womb as i was said to have andenomyosis with the sudden change in hormones. I WANT BOOBS!!! I WANT CONFIDENCE!

Sorry for the long message! pls help!

regards,
celerica

My personal storm – lessons leaned from Hurricane Ike


The storm itself...

What a hurricane. It was technically only a category 2, but by some weird twist of fate it was also a category 4 in the upper winds and it had more kinetic energy than any other hurricane in the gulf coast in the last 40 years. On Saturday September 13, 2008 it threw its worst at us from midnight to 4am. Luckily the path veered slightly east after that and the worst side of the storm went to beat up someone else. I was awake through the whole thing and was hoping to see the eye, but the shift put that to the east as well. I saw the sky lit by multiple flashes of brilliant purple and green lightning that was completely and eirily silent. I saw mighty oaks dancing in the wind. I heard incredible howling of the wind that about every 5 minutes became a tremendous roar as we were buffeted by enormous down-drafts of wind that were near tornadic in force.

As the hours wore on the adrenalin and fear and fatigue made me much less afraid and I watched from an upstairs window as the live oaks surrounding my parents house created a vegetable limbo dance of dramatic proportions. Some of the trunks nearly two feet in diameter bent almost their entire 30 foot length to the ground and back again over and over and over as each downdraft hit. It was mesmerizing and each flash of lightning highlighted the scene. How those trees made it through without breaking themselves or the house is a mystery to me. At 4am the 'good' side of the storm shifted over us and from then on until about 8 am it was just a steady sideways rain – a continual howling wind without the gusts.

We lost power at about 3 am after a series of a dozen or more brief blackouts. All you could hear after that was the wind and the rain. It finally stopped raining about noon. Although the street directly in front of the house was passable we were trapped. All the major roads were flooded. There were so many trees down and power lines down – high water and destruction- they were calling for everyone to shelter in place. They even instituted a curfew over the entire city. Of the 4 million residents in the Houston area it was estimated that a majority were without power. More than half the traffic lights were malfunctioning. Many homes suffered major damage from fallen trees, torn apart roofs and for some rising flood waters from the many bayous in the city. We listened to the radio and heard of fires raging out of control and other accounts of destruction.

We were lucky at our evacuation site -my parents home. There was no damage to the house and no flooding. But, my husband and I were assuming the worst about our house. We are only about 20 feet above see level and they had predicted at least a 25 foot storm surge in the ship channel. Our home is less than 2 miles from the channel. We had to wait all day Saturday until Sunday afternoon before we could venture out and assess the damage. It was a hard drive to make. The city was in shambles. Our neighborhood was hard to reach there were so many trees down. We had to backtrack several times. Finally we made it home. The water never reached us – we were high and dry. No windows broken, no roof leak. We were truly blessed. Our back yard was a nightmare. Huge branches down crushing our fence. One massive fig tree blown 45 degrees and resting in my garden. Our neighbors roof and truck smothered by a branch from one of our trees. But thankfully neither their roof or truck was damaged.

So we were blessed, but we still 'suffered'. No power at all for almost 2 weeks. At first all we had to eat or drink was what we had stockpiled before the storm. No stores were open. The water was not safe to drink. The ice ran out fast and it took a couple of days before the national guard was able to truck in supplies. Everywhere was long, long lines to get anything at all. You don't realize what living in a city of millions means until you are vying with them for scant resources. There was no gas available, so if you had not filled up before the storm you were out of luck. We finally got a generator, but it drank a lot of gas. We had to syphone gas from our cars to feed it so we could have a little power to try and save what was in the freezer and to boil water so we could use it. We finally gave up on the freezer and grilled up all the meats and gave the neighborhood what we couldn't eat. After several days I was able to wait it out in a gas line and get more fuel for the generator. Then some power came back on at a few stores. We waited for about an hour and got some sandwiches at a shop. Finally the power came on at my parent's house and we stayed with them until our home got power.

I have camped out before for over a week at a time doing without the comforts of modern life – roughing it in scenic venues by choice. City camping leaves a lot to be desired. I went days without showers because I just couldn't handle the idea of cold contaminated water. It was hot and the mosquitoes thrived in the wet environment. It was very boring. We got up with the dawn and struggled to get basic necessities for the day. Our biggest concern was whether we were going to get ice that day. We tried to sleep when the light faded, but sleep was fitfull. I ate foods I normally would shun and I developed a craving for candy and cokes that would have shamed me at any other time. But I let it go because after all it was 'hurricane survival eating'. We were all exhausted. Then the lights came back on and they seemed almost too bright. The TV became the most interesting thing – we were like primitives crowding around the box with moving pictures. Images of the storm came our way. It was almost too much to watch.

Thankfully things are getting back to normal in most ways now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two weeks. That's all it took to change my life. Here are some lessons I learned.

I am not really as finiky of an eater as I think I am. Foods that are normally revolting to me and I would never eat become very appealing after 5 days of tuna in a can for meals. (day 1 and I was turning my nose up at the sausage kolache – day 5 and I was asking for seconds)

People do not change during a crisis, but they reveal who they truly are. Those with good characters do good works. Those with rotten characters take advantage of situations. (many people shared what they had and helped their neighbors with storm recovery – but I cannot tell you how many people I saw stealing street signs, jumping their turn at intersections and dumping trash on other people's property)

Good habits don't die hard, they hardly struggle. I am not as internally driven as I thought. Remove the boundaries of my normal life and I react very differently. (this is about how I gave up my exercise and vitamin life to take on a new life of sloth and junk food eating)

My parents are really great people and I should spend more time with them.

I love my dogs and cats, but after 3 days of sleeping with the 'livestock' I was more than ready for an animal free zone. (after day 3 we were able to take the cats back to our house since they prefer the outdoor life – thankfully this also meant no more litter box and no more 2 am caterwailing)

The world goes on even if my part of it falls apart.

It is easier to get back to normal when you have electricity.

Be it ever so humble there is no place like home. (while we were anticipating the storms arrival we had already given the house up for lost and were planning the new house we would build in its place. As we arrived back at the house after the storm it was sort of “Hooray – the house made it!” followed by “Oh, rats, the house made it”... lol)

My tragedy of financial loss, inconvenience, headaches, uncomfortableness, and weight gain are nothing. I am truly blessed. God help those poor souls who lost their homes and livelihoods. (The images from Galveston strike us deep – it was a place we visited often. It will never be the same.)

Best wishes,
a very humbled waxingmoon

Hi Celerica,

I see I completely missed this post while my brain was all hurricaned... Sorry for the delay in my reply.

You know I think your initial dosage was good because you were getting signs of growth. I think the dosages you went up too may be too much.

3000 mg of fenugreek daily seems too much - go back down to 1000 - remember, you were getting results at 500 mg. Only increase this if you have not symptoms of growth - and even then only take it up to 2000mg. Fenugreek can mess with your blood sugar and make you have headaches and extreme fatigue at higher levels.

Bring the saw palmetto back down to just 2 a day. That should give you the desired effect. SP is known to pack on the weight and if you are not looking for this you may want to switch to Nettle root.

Fennel - take just 1 of these 3 times a day.

EPO - just 2000 per day. You will need to balance this with flax seed or else you will give your body too much of the Omega 6 and not enough of the Omega 3.

Take the memory boost only at the label directed amount. Who knows what else is in there aside from the ginko. Also Ginko is a blood thinner - do not overdose on it.

If the iron label says take it 3 times a day then okay - but do not overdo the iron. You will begin to experience constipation from too much iron.


Also - do not use PM if you are going to use all this other stuff. Same goes for the wild yam. NBE is not just about using ALL of the things that work to grow breasts at the same time. Many things can interfere with each other. You have chosen a good program with the main herbs you are taking. Many women have grown from this. Stick with this program and don't go changing it too frequently.

Remember NBE takes time. Expect to be doing this for a year or more. Also get this firm in your mind. You are trying to use the LEAST amount of herbs necessary to achieve the desired effect. I know in your reading you would not get this impression. Many women start off by pushing the herb amounts up into the stratosphere. They get a little bit of effect but then WHAM their receptors get swamped and they get no further growth - how frustrating. Let's make sure that is not you. Also never, never forget - your most valuable asset is your health. Nothing is worth negatively effecting your health.

So in summary - come down on the herb amounts, but I think you are taking the herbs most commonly used for growth - so good research. Just a little tweaking and you are doing fine.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

So, as we last joined waxingmoon she was giving advice and before that whining about the hurrincane and BEFORE that, whining about Noogling and needing to lose some fat off the more porcine regions of her body... let's see what she is up to now...

I am still using the Noogleberry only now I start with the large domes. This is not as big a deal as it might sound since I did not 'grow' out of the mediums, but rather 'broke one when hysterically packing to run from the hurricane'. I am still trying to change my body proportions via the eat smarter and less and exercise more plan... grr.

I decided to measure myself today if for no other reason than to torment myself, but I was happy with the results.

I have lost an inch off the hips, an inch off the big ole butt and an inch off both of my rubbery thighs!!!! The scale is still lying and saying that I have lost only about 3 pounds, but I know it has an evil heart and I hardly listen to it...

My current measurements that matter here are:

Under arm: 33.5
At nipples: 35
Under breast 29

Another measurement that I usually don't report has increased. I measure across each breast and when I started doing this I was measuring 7 inches. Back in September I measured 8 inches on lefty and 7.5 on righty. I now measure 8.25 on both. This always is interesting because my across the nipple measurement never seems to be able to chart all the changes that have gone on.

So, even though I have lost 4 inches total body flubber elsewhere, my breasts are staying and have increased a small increment. I blame it all on that lovely Noobleberry. (okay, I must admit the better eating and more exercise was to blame for the fat loss, because when I read this again it seemed I was saying the ole Noogle sucked all the blubber into my boobs... I wish)

I use the Noogleberry about 45 minutes to an hour twice a day. The measurements I reported are 12 hours from the last session. Right after using suction the measurement across each breast will go up about an inch. There is also a lot more breast tissue at the upper part of my breasts. I think that is why the measurement under my arms has gone up an inch.

As far as herbs or other specific NBE things... I am still on my vitamin plan that includes C, borage oil, and extra protein (along with a ton of other stuff to keep me healthy). I take fennel herb twice a day. I am not using progesterone cream or vitex right now.

So, to summarize, I am still making gains in the boobage while I am whittling away the fattage. Yipee! I was quite frankly rather worried that losing body fat was going to knock out my breasts. Thanks to the Noogleberry I am still growing instead of losing.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Cake.... oh man... I sooooo want to eat something chocolate filled and fattening......

Urgh... if only I hadn't spent the entirety of this last year ignoring my ever increasing body fat supply... I could be eating cake right now and I could get away with it. What a world, what a world. You can't even eat poorly and excessively for 12 or more months and not have it come back to haunt you... whine, whine, whine......

Okay - I won't say I have got that out of my system, but at least I am now bored of talking about it. Suffice it to say that my continuing plan of healthful, appropriate calorie and nutritious eating along with an increase of fat burning exercise is right on schedule. grr.

I am not sure what is 'getting' to me this morning. Is it the cold? Do I want to pack on some more body fat because we are having our first cold day today?

Perhaps it is the Goat's Rue.

That's what I came here to post. I am now taking Goat's rue - about day 5 or so. Goat's rue extract. 2 pills per day.

Headaches - but is it the GR or is it the seasonal allergies? I will eat something with sugar and see if headaches go away (no not cake, sigh, just a little sugar).

No changes in boobage, which considering the reduction in body fat so far is amazing. Thank you Noogleberry.

Goat's rue - I have big plans for you. Increase my breast tissue and reduce my body fat.

So, in a month or two we will know if this is the case.

waxingmoon

I think you're on to something here Waxingmoon - in further support of overall health and ignoring unhealthy cravings (mine is wedding cake with the extra-buttery, extra-sugary, fluffy frosting...thank God weddings aren't a frequent thing for me...), posting a mini-rant to get the craving out of your system seems like it would be really productive.

However, this may also mean that I'll end up posting to my program page at least three times a day... =)

Just checking in with myself as a reminder to what is happening now...

Started with a small dose of progesterone cream these last 2 nights. My symptoms were a very troubling anxiety for two days and then 1 night ago a massive migraine. I have been wondering about my slight symptoms for a couple of months now and I think I am trending towards estrogen dominance once more. My plan is to use a slight dosage ... 5 - 10 mg ... per night during luteal phase to see if I can keep things under control. If need be I will go back to this at reduced dosages for several cycles.

The question is whether this is a response to the goat's rue... or maybe something else in my routine.

Here is my regime run down:

AM Routine

Wake up after 6 - 7 hours sleep (having trouble getting that 7 - 8 hours)
Earl Grey green tea along with Eve's forum and Noogleberry reading
Noogle suction breasts with large cups for 1 hour

Breakfast - Whey protein, yogurt, psyllium husk, crushed flax seed, and wheat germ

Shower
Lightly massage breasts with lavender oil and lavender hand lotion

Vitamins

(these I take for general health)

Multi - Brand varies, but always food based and moderate B vitamin amounts
Methyl B12 - 1000 mcg
Q-sorb CoQ10 by Jarrow (better absorption) 100 mg
Bioflavonoids - 500 mg (they help the vitamin C work better)
Calcium/magnesium - 500mg/225mg
Potassium - 200 mg
Codliver Oil - 2 capsules or 1 teaspoon oil
E - 200 IU
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
Fish oil - 2 grams
Vitamin D - 1000 IU
Creatine monohydrate - 5 grams
Bromelain - 500 mg


(These I take for NBE reasons as well as health)

Ester C - 1000 mg
Vit C non buffered 1000mg
Evening Primrose Oil - 1300 mg
Goat's rue herb - 600 mg
Fennel herb - 420 mg
Papaya enzyme - 3 chewy tablets



Afternoon Routine

2 - 4 hours of exercise varying from light to intense
A couple of light meals of usually egg and vegetables
Another cup of Earl grey green tea

Evening Routine

Light Evening meal usually vegetable soup and followed by a whey protein drink.

Read and Noogle again for about an hour.

Vitamins (30 minutes prior to bed)

Calcium/magnesium - 500mg/225mg
Potassium - 200 mg
Chromium Picolinate - 200 mcg
Melatonin time released - 3 mg
CoQ10 - 100mg
Selenium - 100 mg
Bromelain - 500 mg


Fennel herb - 420 mg
Goat's rue 600 mg
Papaya enzyem - 3 tablets


Progesterone Cream (5mg - 10 mg days 12 - 28)


Hmmmmmmmm..... I see that I stopped taking L-tryptophan and GABA which may have negatively effected my sleep cycle. I also changed my night vitamin routine which at first seemed to help me sleep better, but I am getting less vitamin C and less of the nutritional oils now.... Better find a way to add these in at lunch time.

So... my diagnosis is that lowering the vitamin C and nutritional oils has cut back on my body's ability to create the proper hormone balance. Add to this my continued quest to drop some body fat and add in an herb that creates a hormone change towards boobage... aaannnnnd I see I have created a recipe for hormone upset.


Ahhh yes... it may have taken a few months to get here, but I have created my own misery once again (see me shaking fist at me.... grr).

So the solution will be to bring the vitamin levels up. Support the progesterone with cream for the short term. And we will see.

By the way - no change of breast size - still sitting at a B cup - slight lowering of body weight - slight lowering of fluffy body fat - slight lowering of motivation in general... but that is just the low progesterone talking and we will just ignore it...

waxingmoon

Yup, got a new achievement bra.... 34C. My lefty is fairly happy in it and righty has lots of room to spare. This model is a front close and I have B cup versions that really make my dynamic duo look wonderful.

I have found that the swelling I receive from the Nooglberry remains longer when I use this type of bra. It helps to train my breasts and breast area fat to project more forward and I guess the support enhances the retention of fluid.

That being said, after pumping I feel squished in the B cups. I reason that if I give support with a minimum of compression this should enhance the effect.

The suction method has really taken off these last few weeks. I cannot account for the effect - perhaps it is not just the suction alone. I have been taking the goat's rue now - mind you not at high levels and some days I don't take it at all.

Whatever is working is working. The most consistent thing I am doing is suctioning ever day. Most day twice a day for at least 45 minutes to an hour.

I came close to measuring 36 inches at the nipple after suctioning. This is remarkable because my breasts just do not project out. The measurement across each breast was 9 inches at that point. The swelling diminishes over the course of 12 hours to a loss of about 1/2 inch.

I am constantly amazed at my progress. I am by all regards a slow responder to this method, but slow or not there is constant enhancement. I started this method as a small B cup. Now I am a full B to sometimes large B/small C cup. I don't think that very much of this growth is permanent yet. I reason that I will probably have to be at C cup level for almost a year before I would have permanently achieved a full/large B cup level. It would probably take enhancing to a D cup before I would ever permanently go to full C cup level. I don't know what my ultimate goal is.

I don't want to stop at small B cup level. I really think that getting into a C cup on a consistent basis will be what I want. There is a lot of psychological stuff to all of this NBE. I have already come through a lot of psychological growth with what I have done. We all have an 'ideal' physical image we envision for ourselves. I am shooting for my ideal and I think the process of getting there will create even further positive psychological effects.

What an awesome trip this has been so far...

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Just checking in to report that I am stopping the Goat's Rue. I can't say it has been much help. Maybe so, but it also may be part of a problem I am experiencing.

This last cycle I began to feel some weird pain in my left breast during and after I pumped. It was so minor I just did not think much of it. There are many minor discomforts felt when pumping and since the area was close to the edge of the domes I just thought it was skin pulling.

Well, now it is sore to the touch and seems to be a fibrocyst or other type of cyst. It is swelling slightly and I expect is will feel even worse as my period approaches. What a bummer.

It happened to occur when I switched from the herbal extracts plus brand of goat's rue to the Motherlove brand. It is probably purely coincidence, but worth reporting all the same.

So now I have a mystery. What brought about this fibrocystic lump when I had resolved that type of breast issue long ago. Of the culprits are Goat's rue's effect on stimulating breast growth, the possibility that goat's rue raises estrogen levels, the couple of fennel caps I take each day, the actual suction method itself, all these things combined, the whims of nature...

Of the above I suspect the goat's rue the most. I also think I may be swooping back into estrogen dominance. I was taking the fennel to help support what I reasoned via symptoms was a diminishing estrogen supply. I have not been taking any progesterone for a long time. So perhaps I am just experiencing my old nemesis.

Whatever it is, this has to stop. So my plan of action:

1. Stop the goat's rue.
2. Stop the fennel.
3. Stop the suction to the left breast.
4. Increase crushed flaxseed to 2 tablespoons per day.
5. Begin using progesterone cream days 12-28 at 20 mg per day.
6. Gently massage the area to enhance lymph drainage and circulation.

I am more frustrated than anything else. I really like the suction method and this puts a crimp in that. However, I can suction the right breast which has lagged about a half cup behind the left breast.

I had been suspicious due to other symptoms that old ED was rearing it ugly head, but quite frankly I did not want to address it. Now I must.

From now on I will be doing NBE with just the Noogleberry. It has been quite satisfactory and I don't feel the need to add anything to it anymore. My hormonal balance means far to much to me to go further with the goat's rue.

We live, we learn,

waxingmoon

Hi!
So, im wondering....why is it beneficial to take progesterone in the luteal faze of your cycle? What does it do exactly anyways? Thank you so much!!

:)

Hi Dreamer,

Our body naturally produces progesterone after ovulation from the corpus luteum (the lining where the egg came from). For women with estrogen dominance who do not create enough of their own progesterone, the progesterone cream supplements what they do not make. Since it is during the luteal phase when progesterone is supposed to be produced, the cream is used only during that time.

The hormones of our body must be in balance with one another. Too much of one and we will begin to display symptoms. The treatments for hormone imbalance are as varied as the number of hormones we have. Also, the reason the hormones become imbalanced in the first place must be addressed. Treating a symptom and not the cause of the symptom leads to temporary relief at best.

I take progesterone cream supplements because my body does not produce enough on its own. This has been the case for many years of my life. Now that I am older there is a natural tendency for cycles to produce no ovulation and thus even though I have successfully treated the estrogen dominance before, I must occasionally renew my treatment when the symptoms warrant it.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. I would be glad to answer them.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

The painful lump in my boob has gone away!!!! Stopping all the herbs and going back to the progesterone cream for a few days has really been helpful. I will have to watch it for a couple of more days, but I think I can begin using suction on both my breasts again.

I have definitely learned my lesson about herbs. I don't think there is an effective herbal NBE for me considering the tentative state of my hormonal balance.

Thank goodness the Noogleberry works so well. During my time off I have not had any decrease in size except at the upper most part of my breast. Otherwise the gals have hung in there without a hitch.

My next goal is a serious loss of body fat from about navel downward. The Noogleberry is going to be my best friend during this new regime.

waxingmoon

Hi!
thanks for your reply.

Well, i'm proabably going to start on the P-cream for my luteal stage coming in a few days to see what i can do with this. I was concerned at first that i shouldn't because of my age, but i'm 23 and in my "reproductive" years which in this case can be used for PC. And after doing some research and asking questions it seems like it coule be beneficial. Though i'm young, i had the same stressful childhood and remember when my chest started to develope, and they were the most akward and strange shape for a long time until one day when i was like 18 i noticed they had finally "rounded out," but i am convinced they haven't grown to their potential and that i have a major hormone imbalnce. My dad's side(6 sisters) are all heavy set women with big calves, and big huge breasts, while my moms side (2 sisters and my grandmother) all have b's. I looked into the list of est. dominant symtoms and it sure looks like me, so i thought why not give it a try. I'm still young so i think there might be a chance to jump-start my breasts into a healthy growth again? who knows until i try it.... we'll see. I am happy where i'm at, i'm 34b (not really full though)...i just "fit" my one un-padded 34b, while my others are "fake" as well with pushup, that actually doesnt push anything up!! lol...i have those breasts that kinda just sit on your body with no "surface" or upper breast tissue, so "pushing them up" doesnt really do anything aesthetically except give me a more rounded shape under my shirts.....OH WELL!..... that's why im on this insane boobie quest, to see what in the world i can do, LOL!
you're an encouragement though, seeing your hardwork makes all of us other women really appreciate the imput you've got!....

After reading tons of posts, what do you think is best for younger women like myself who are probably estrogen dominant (sypmtoms,as well as estrogenic herbs not promoting too much activity)...? any advice?

thanks tons.

Yay, waxingmoon! Glad to hear that your lump it gone, it's funny, your program is almost like a boobie novel...Tale of Two Titties...(kids love the puns.) I can't even begin to say how much all of your info has helped, thanks a billion!

Keep us updated, and keep up that awesome sense of humor, I think everyone here really appreciates a good laugh as we all make this NBE journey!

~Antheia

Just wanted to post this to keep track of myself. I have been on a bit of a hiatus from all things NBE for about a month now.

I have not used the Noogle, I have barely massaged... I am still using fennel at small dosages and all my other supplements. I am not currently using progesterone cream.

Right now my mind is focused on losing body fat and I can't seem to rev up to do that and do NBE at the same time.

I am fully willing for my breasts to lose some size - I have confidence if they do I can bring them back. So far they seem oblivious to my weight loss. They are still hanging in there as B cuppers. This is probably because my body fat is also oblivious to the change in my regime.

GAHHH.... I am eating about 1200 to 1500 calories per day and sometimes less. I am exercising daily and getting more aerobic exercise each week. I have been doing this for a month and a half... I have lost about 4 pounds total.

So, apparently I have become famine proof. Who knew?? Some days because of my crazy, busy schedule I know I barely got 1000 calories in... a big no no in my book - but did my body notice... nah. I barely felt more hungry than normal. Do I even have a metabolism any more?? ((***SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH*** Woman living with absolutely no metabolic activity whatsoever. She gains weight just by breathing....))

Yeah, I am tired more, but that is just because I am enjoying the delight of 14 and 16 hour days.... grrr...

So to recap:

NBE - nada
Breast size - oblivious
Food consumption - miniscule
Fat reduction - unmeasurable
Weight reduction - 4 measly pounds
Whining - higher than ever

grrrr,
waxingmoon

Well I am back in the saddle again.... Yeehaa!

Actually saddle is a great analogy to the use of a breast pump. First you have to lasso those fillies with the domes and then cinch them up tight for the ride... Lucky for me there have been no bucking bronco results from them (I could just read the headlines now "Woman knocked cold by her breasts, strange contraption found in home, neighbors stunned 'She was always such a quiet person'...)

So anyway this is like, what the 3rd or 4th day I have used the Noogleberry again. I am doing it most days twice a day for 30 to 45 minutes at a time.

Perhaps there will be a stronger response this time since they have had their 'rest'. I was not disappointed in the effect from the first time, but I am not one of the 'amazing' responders like some who use Noogleberry.

The only herb I currently use is Fennel - just 2 capsules a day to give a slight boost to estrogen. My estrogen dominance symptoms are not too bad so I haven't been using progesterone cream, but I am considering it for this month. I have been having headaches and they may respond to this treatment like they did before.

Through all this hiatus I maintained the B cup I grew to. There is not as much fluff at the top of the breast as there was when I was using the Noogle, but that has already come back a bit with just a few days work.

Body fat is lower, but my weight is still about the same. Lean is good, but I wish it was going a little faster. But hey - the boobs are hanging in there so slow weight loss is probably better all around.

My vitamin regime is essentially the same as it was before. My exercise is about the same, but aerobic exercise will be increasing since we are getting a treadmill for the house. That might change things quite a bit... we'll see.

Oh yeah - the buttocks are still standing tall and proud. I am still getting complements on them. Have considered setting up a website just for them, but they already get too much attention as it is. It cracks me up when I read the posts 'Will MACA make my butt bigger?' - Yeah. Yeah it will.

So anyway before I drone on any further...

waxingmoon

Big sigh!

I am in a stall for now. I have been using the Noogleberry and getting really nice response - already close to where I was at the point it took me several months during my first go round.

Now I have painful fibrocystic breast response again.... SIGH! It is sort of like my breasts have an internal stop sign going. No bigger than this they say.

Which I know is a lie because with Noogle they did get bigger than this - but yes, they will get their way... the lousy little whiners!

So what this all means is that my estrogen dominance must be dealt with more stringently than I have been. I admit I have been lazy. I only occasionally used the progesterone cream. I would use just enough to dampen down the symptoms - but actually I wasn't getting all the symptoms - just the ones I was aware of.

A little bit of stress on my system and the whole health came crashing down. I had an allergy reaction to whatever is blooming around here this year and it went on and on. Then it acted like a sinus infection with a subnormal and then low-grade fever. This went on for weeks. Then came the profound fatigue and insomnia and well... nearly the whole list of estrogen dominance symptoms.

At least I think I have a handle of why I am such an ED princess. I have a mild genetic disorder that means my liver does not produce enough of a certain enzyme. This makes it hard for my liver to detoxify various drugs, but also it cannot detoxify estrogen. I just found out by doing more research into what I had always been assured was a completely benign condition. Benign my ass! Benign does not mean you can barely get out of bed fatigued and have a highly dangerous hormone (estrogen) building up to toxic levels.

So - I have added a lot of other supplements to help my liver make more of its enzyme. I also cut out fennel completely. I am using progesterone 20mg days 12 - 28 and I will for 6 month straight regardless of symptoms abating.

I also am eating a lot more red meat (helps build blood cells - something my body tends to break down too quickly) and lots of spinach. So far I am a little less tired.

So anyway -wah, wah, wah.. snivel. Yeah, I will be right as rain soon and back on the noogle when the fibrocysts disappear like they did when I correctly treated my ED before. I also am much, much less trusting of what my doctor says as far as 'benign' conditions. I trust my own research a lot more now.

waxingmoon

Okay, I am officially frustrated.

Yeah, I know I said I was frustrated before, but now I REALLY am.

I did one session of Noogleberry 2 days ago and my breasts are very sore still. I only did a 30 minute session.

I am in the luteal phase and I guess I am experiencing some greater estrogen dominance since I began using progesterone cream last month. I am using it from day 12 - 28 at 20 mg. I should expect greater symptoms since it is waking up dormant estrogen receptors, but I like that idea in theory much better than having to live it.

At least I am over the worst of my fatigue symptoms. I feel I have a much greater handle on my slow to detox liver system than I did a couple of months ago. I have to watch it though. Everything is in such precarious balance.

What I am doing right now that could be considered NBE:

EPO
Papaya Enzyme
Vitamin C
Protein
Massage with lavender oil
Occasional Noogle session

I am taking a ton of supplements that are for general health and to support liver enzymes. Someday soon I will update my supplement profile.

I have not made any gains, but also I have not lost anything either.

I am not done with NBE. I really do want to gain that elusive C cup even if I decide to go back to the B cup. With Noogle that is the option. If I like the C cup then I will Noogle for however long it takes to make it permanent.

Yet here I sit while everyone else is doing NBE. Making plans. Dreaming dreams. Combating estrogen dominance. Sighing.

waxingmoon

I have been using maca root for months now. My booty got larger, and my daughter got larger at the top and at the bottom. The growth is so obvious that she didn't have to measure.

She is adding hops to help with the booby growth. The package already arrived in the mail.

For a good place to get maca, just go to http://macaandherbshop.blogspot.com/

They also send weekly tips to customers in their email.

I love maca; now I have a curvy bump instead of a board back there! LOL!

It has been a while since I have updated so I just wanted to post what my current routine is right now.
I have not gone back to using the Noogleberry yet, but I am noticing a general increase in breast size now from an increase in my vitamin D amount. I have also been taking supplements to help with energy formation and to assist my liver in detoxifying. Something is happening even though I am not doing what it typical for NBE.

I would estimate that recently I have grown a half cup size just from the change in my supplements. I now am fitting as a very full B cup.

Below is the very lengthy account of what I am doing... I also include the reasons I take each supplement and included my nutrition and exercise information as well because heck... everyone needs a good sleep aid... lol. Good luck reading it all...

*******************************

Supplements for General Health
Multivitamin
C
B-12
Potassium
E
Calcium and Magnesium
Chromium Picolinate
D3
CoQ10
Bromelain
Fish Oil

***********************************

Supplements to help me Sleep
Melatonin
L-Tryptophan
GABA

************************************

Supplements to help my Thyroid function
Selinium
Cod Liver oil

**********************************

Supplements to help with Energy
L-Arginine
Acetyl L-Carnitine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Biotin
Creatine Monohydrate

***************************************

Supplements to help my Liver function
Quercetin
Taurine
Calcium D-Glucarate
Milk Thistle

***************************************

Supplements for Estrogen Dominance issues and NBE
C
Protein Powder
Crushed Flax seed
Papaya Complex
D3
Progesterone Cream (days 12 -28 of my cycle maybe 5 – 6 doses of 20 mg for the entire month)


**********************************************************

Some details about all those supplements I take:

Multivitamin (AM) - Take what the label suggests
For general nutrition. I choose a brand that has the B vitamins (B1,B2,B3,B6) at 25mg each. I switch brands of vitamins each month in order to allow for a greater variety of substances. I choose vitamins that are food based.

Vitamin C (AM / Midday) – 1500 – 4000 mg total daily
For general health but also for protein building, collagen building, anti-inflammatory and liver detoxification. I take C complexes with bioflavanoids (pill and capsule forms) as well as EmergenC powdered form that I mix into a drink.

B-12 (AM) – 1000 mcg total daily.
For energy support. The form I prefer is Jarrow brand Methyl B-12. I take the methylized formula because it is more available to the body.

Potassium (AM and PM) – 400 mg total daily
For general health and to balance the salt in my diet. This is also helpful as a muscle relaxant. I take the Whole Foods name brand.

Vitamin E (AM) 200 IU total daily
For general health, heart protective action, tissue repair, anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory effect.

Calcium and Magnesium (AM and PM) 1000 mg Calcium and 500 mg Magnesium total daily
For general health and to assist in muscle relaxation, bone building and heart health. I use the Country Life brand.

Chromium Picolinate (AM and PM) 400 mcg total daily
For general health and to assist in blood sugar regulation and amino acid transport for muscle building.

Norwegian Cod Liver Oil (AM) 1000 mg total daily
For general health and to supply Retinyl form of Vitamin A. My body has trouble using the vitamin A found in Beta-Carotene due to thyroid issues. This supplies 2664 IU of Vitamin A and 200 IU of Vitamin D. It also supplies 110 mg of EPA and 100 mg of DHA which is good for the brain and the heart.

Papaya Complex (AM and PM)
For digestion and NBE. The complex contains Papain (112 mg total), Amylase (96 mg total), Protease (80 mg total) and Payaya (80 mg total). I take a chewable form.

Bromelain (PM) 500 mg total daily
For muscle comfort. This is also a digestive aid, but provides an anti-inflammatory effect as well.

Selinium (PM) 100mcg total daily
For thyroid support. Selinium helps the body convert Reverse T3 thyroid hormone back into usable T3.

Melatonin (PM) 3mg total daily.
For sleep assistance. It is also an anti-oxidant.

GABA (PM) 750 mg daily total
For sleep assistance.

Vitamin D3 (AM and PM) 4000 – 6000 IU total daily.
For general health and hormone assistance. I am not outside very much so my exposure to sunlight is limited. This has been the case for years. I also am sometimes exposed to light through car windows and my office window which has been reported to increase the need for vitamin D.

Alpha Lipoic Acid (AM) – 300 mg every other day.
A powerful antioxidant that assists in energy formation.

L-Tryptophan (PM) 500 mg
For sleep assistance.

CoQ10 (AM and PM) 160mg daily total
For general health, heart health, tissue building and gum health. I take 100 mg in the morning of a formula that has an enhanced absorption and 60 mg at night of a regular formula.

L-Arginine (AM) 500 mg every other day
For energy formation.

Acetyl L-Carnitine (AM) 500 mg every other day.
For energy formation.

Taurine (AM) 500 mg daily total
For liver detoxification.

Calcium D-Glucarate (AM) 500 mg daily total
For liver detoxification.

Milk Thistle (AM) 150 mg daily total
For liver detoxification.

Quercetin (AM) 500 mg daily total
For liver detoxification and as an anti-allergy aid.

Fish oil (AM) 1000 mg daily total.
For general health and heart health. Contains 300 mg Omega 3 fatty acid, about 300 mg each of EPA and DHA.

Biotin (AM) 500 mg every other day
For energy formation. Also for skin and hair health.

Crushed Flax seed (AM) Two tablespoons daily total
For general health as a fiber supplement and for its lignan quantity ( 250 mg)to help control estrogen issues as well as its Omega 3 fatty acid content (2.7 grams)

Creatine Monohydrate (AM) 500 mg every other day.
For energy production.

Whey protein powder (AM) – 25 mg daily total
For general health and to promote muscle and hormone production.


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Nutrition

I eat what is known as a Paleolithic diet. This means I consume about 30% of my calories as protein, from grass fed beef, organic chicken, and fish. I consume hardly any bread or other grain. I eat greens like spinach and kale as well as root vegetables. I eat fruits and seeds as well. I drink organic cows milk and yogurt daily.

I space my meals about every 3 - 4 hours during the day.

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Exercise

Daily - 20 minutes of treadmill.
Daily - 2 – 3 hours of low intensity exercise involving muscle contractions and stretching.
2 – 3 time Weekly – weight lifting or other intense muscle actions.

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Well that is all, of course you are nearly comatose now if you read all of that so my apologies...

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

WOW two words......super human!!!!! lol

Milani x

Hi Milani,

LOL. I read over my program and think.. what a FREAK... But it is all true.

I can't believe just how many supplements I swallow each day. Most of those I take just so I can feel a normal amount of health and energy. But I would much rather go this route than ever take a prescription... if they even had some medication that could help me...

It took me a long time to find my solution of various health woes - the type that kept my doctors scratching their heads in puzzlement. But I knew I wasn't imagining all my problems. With this regime I feel good most of the time as opposed to my previous way of living where I felt bad much of the time.

The over the top exercise amount is not because I am addicted to it or anything. I teach exercise classes and this amount represents the number of classes I teach each day. On top of that I have to make myself stronger than what I teach to avoid injury.

It is like I am just a hamster on one of those little wheels ... munching my alfalfa bits and scurrying along...

Best wishes,
waxingmoon (scurrying along)

So, I have been really just slacking around in the ole breast growth arena.

Today I used my pump for about 10 minutes or so - but aside from all that massive amounts of supplements I take - just doing nothing NBE-wise.

Yet I am bigger than ever.

My own suspicion is the Vitamin D, but whatever it is my breasts are larger than they have ever been.

Sure - it might just be swelling, but even so - I have never been THIS big before.

And strangely, since the girls are taking things into their own hands I am almost ready to recommit to doing something to help them again.

The noogling today felt good and since I am starting over with it I don't have the old 'gotta do it for an hour' monkey on my back. I can just do a 10 - 20 minute short session and call it a day.

Who knows with a little more encouragement they might just step into that C cup.

waxingmoon