After an appalling experience here in Russia with a girl I believed was to be my future wife, I thought that some general comments about Russian women by a long-term Western expat living in Moscow would help inject some sense into the debate.

And I won't use any filthy language either - why, by the way, is it necessary for you people, Yoda, Anastasia, Anonymous et al, to use such filthy language? That is not debate but simple foul abuse which means that proper debate is not possible.

Moderate your language and yourselves. You offend all of us.

It's best to bullet-point what I want to say:

a) Russia and the Ukraine are economically, enviromentally and financially third-world countries. In a situation where clever and pretty girls have to worry not about where they will go on holiday, but how to pay for their meals or their desired course of study or the pair of cheap jeans they like, OF COURSE they will use the means they have - their looks, sex - to attract to themselves a man who can provide them with these things. This will naturally involve deception and lead to heart-break for the man.

b) The culture of extreme violence and repression suffered here for centuries - but in an extreme form for all of the 20th century - has produced a nation which still has a slave mentality. Russians bow down to the strongest. Life here is like the jungle. Western men - if you enter this jungle via a marriage agency, enter it at your peril. Be on your guard constantly. Be forewarned and forearmed.

c) Atheistic communism crushed and destroyed all that was good and honest in the Russian and Ukrainian people. The biggest problem by far here is NOT economic, it is NOT political - it a MORAL problem. Much of the nation, men and women both, can be characterised as having the mentality and the outlook of the prostitute or the petty criminal, even if they are educated and cultured. Until the MORAL problem is confronted in the heart of a majority of individual hearts, then this country will go nowhere at all.

In addition, few people here believe in anything at all. And when people believe in nothing, they will believe in anything. Hence the widespread recourse here to "magicians" (advertised in all the papers); the belief in the horoscope, the belief in fate or "sudba". It all means that your perceptions and assumptions and how you judge people are NOT shared by your prospective Russian girlfriend.

d) Many young Russians who have grown up in a "free" Russia seriously believe that honesty = stupidity; that laziness = cleverness; that to be cunning = to be intelligent. If you are a hard-working western man, middle class and normal, you will meet girls who will laugh at you for living a normal middle class life. A "real man" is one who, in the jungle, can survive and provide for a family. Here, this means (in the main) a man who can cheat, lie and con his fellow Russians better than the next man. The girls ADMIRE them for it. If you are not like this, they will view you as weak and useless, even if you can provide for them materially.

e) There is still a real residual hatred of westerners. The newspapers are full of it. We are hated because we won the Cold War, we are hated because our home countries are not pig-sties, we are hated because we can organise and arrange and plan our lives whereas Russians have continually messed their lives and their countries up.

There's a lot more I could write, but in summary, western men - either understand the nature of the girl you write to and meet on the internet, or do not start the process. I would say only develop relations with a girl who:

i) Has a regular daily job;
ii) Is NOT I repeat NOT a student - this is code for a prostitute or the girl IS a student which means that there is a 30-50% chance that she has had sex for money at least once;
iii) You MUST MUST verify all that she tells you. Use Elena Garrett on www.russian-detective.com: and do not feel ashamed or embarrassed to do this. It is NOT going behind the girl's back, it is protecting yourself against finacial loss and potential heart-break.
iv) Give her not one penny unless you have met her at least once or more times. NEVER NEVER send money to her for any reason unless you know the person IN PERSON.

Good luck - there are many girls here who are treasures - but on the internet, particularly in Moscow, Kiev and St. Petersburg, they are equalled by a similar number of con artists whose young hearts are already dead and whose souls are already iced-over. This type of Russian girl is simply an immoral animal.

Finally - remember the Russian proverb: "doverai no proverai" - believe and trust trust but verify it too.

Sounds like you've had your heart stepped on, but most of what you say rings true. I might add that Russian/Ukrainians are extremely pragmatic. They are well schooled in doing whatever it takes to survive. But I have seem that the women have dreams of romance, and in most cases really want their marriage to work. In about 15 cases I know personally here in the US, I've seen the guy screw up the marriage on several ocassions, and the Russian lady do it only on one. But the statistics are still better than for the average American marriage. Yes, I agree, keep you hand on your wallet, but at some point you must risk trusting. As with any marriage, even to an American, you sometime lose your bet. My 1 year of heavenly marriage to my Russian wife has been far better that 10 years of struggle with my American wife, even if it ended this very day.

If it was "heavenly", may I ask why did it end?

Certainly there is a lot of truth in your comments in regards to the current FSU culture. That said I will add a few comments of my own.

This is my experience (post-mortem). I was married to a FSU woman and we had a 15 year difference, in hindsight it was stupid, but then there is a lot posted on the net about how mature they are (promoted by marriage agencies), we want to believe that a life in the west, which they want, will overcome all. Simply not true.

Human nature is such that people will split if it isn't working no matter what the consequence. Hopefully you're not in the recieving end of the consequence. LOL


If your 40 (about) and she's 25 (about), take some pictures of her, yourself and her family together. Notice something a bit strange? Chances are her father will look as old as you and as for her mom well she'll probably be just the right age for you if it is a normal age range.

I have checked out a lot of sites and pictures (mine included) and I usually look to see what the father's expression is. Well if I know human nature he's usually quite reflective of the entire situation, but perhaps he's thinking... "I make very little money and life is a struggle so it has to be a better life for her, if nothing else she will have her life in the west".

I have had a few years to reflect on this and one thing I still see over and over is western guys making the same mistakes.

As for the present culture that exist, of course the struggle to get a job, paycheck, how their current male freinds get money is what they are used to, that includes doing whatever it takes to get "business". In all my travels there 90% of day, evening, outing conversation revolve to a large degree about business. Not that I blame them life is just such.

Also take a look at her photo's and yours, normal ones that are her's and the ones you take while visiting. Chances are here freinds will be in the same age group and you'll be the oldest by at least a decade. And the one you take while there have a look at the age range of her gf's and male freinds, chances are they will be within 5 years give or take.

I know I have painted with a broad brush here but one thing for sure things are not always as they seem and since your there for a short period of time and in a alien environment, you'll probably miss a lot of the cultural differences or perhaps choose to ignore signals that would cause you to stop and think.

One final note one your married to her and she's in your home country she's free to do as she pleases, one thing for sure these people are well versed, probably better that you, at what it takes to get ahead. Your probably not even on the radar screen.

.

Myself I wouldn't go through it again, one can get just as much of a headache from an international marriage as an "in country" one, but at least then both are on an equal footing to resolve the issue, be in remediation or divorce.

To all the guys out there who have made it work and it's bliss I wish good luck.

I think this guy anonymous – is really offended and just ridiculous – he got just a wrong person and ends generalizing Russians women! Look here friend – 2 of my angle went to study in Russia got married to Russian women. They are now Doctors back in my home country Kenya since 25 years – still married and verily happily married! With beautiful children. Now to a contrast – 3 of my angles from the side of my mother went to study in the US, got married to America women, came back home with their American wife’s after their studies – I tell you those marriages lasted not more than 5 years! So what I am saying Mr. offended - All people are the same! No matter where you come from! I will give you another example – there is a tendency of German tourist coming to Kenya to the beach and meeting the beach women! In clubs and so on – falling in love and getting married! Arranging the visa thing for the lady and going to Germany! 3 years later the marriage is broken – will you say that all Kenyan women are beach women!!!! No! Infect the beach women are probably 0.01 per cent of Kenyan women! So don’t generalize Russian women! I was in Russia many times and I saw how American tend to blow their own trumpet – those few hyenas are out there waiting for you boy! And you see the problem is that Russian women are very beautiful and that beauty can easily confuse you! Thinking you got the right one! But you are going out with those few criminals with their own ego ambitions – of either to come to the west and then kick your ass or simply after your dollars! I have dated several women – German, French, Americans and my ex-wife a Swiss – same thing! Since 2 years I am now dating a Russian lady – she is the most wonderful woman I have ever met in my life – name it – beauty, free conversation, loving, caring and openness, natural, family oriented! None could ever be so good! And I am sorry to say my American girlfriend was the worst – aggressive! Un natural and very artificial! But that doesn’t mean all American women are like that!!! Omosante!

People are not the same all over the world, you hopeless no-mark - do Europeans take showers in camel piss? Do Africans invent, write literature, music or create art? Do americans understand the first thing about culture? Will the French ever uinderstand that hairy armpits are revolting? Will Russia ever evolve into a civilised society?

You forget the egyptians and other african cultures that predate our culture by thousands of years, and were very highly civilized. Do you think that drive by shootings are civilized? Is trashing our own enviorment civilized? If you had a brain you would be arrested for smuggling manure.

In response to your bullet-points:

[a] Mortally Offended states, "...OF COURSE they will use the means they have - their looks, sex - to attract to themselves a man who can provide them with these things. This will naturally involve deception and lead to heart-break for the man."

All primates - men, women, chimpanzees, et al - employ deception as a component of mating ritual; there is no requirement that this reality "lead to heart-break for the man." Additionally, Russian women are no more deceptive in their courtship habits than American women. In fact, I've found my Russian wife's attitude toward marriage and family refreshing, and a welcome change from American cultural ideals.

[b] Mortally Offended continues, "...[t]he culture of extreme violence and repression suffered here for centuries - but in an extreme form for all of the 20th century - has produced a nation which still has a slave mentality. Russians bow down to the strongest."

American's are no different: We worship "celebrity" and value the most superficial and meaningless nonsense. American's "bow down" to the rich and powerful. This fact does not predispose Russian or American women to dishonesty, or "scamming." Remember, you must approach all human beings - be they Russian, Chinese, Brazilian, American, whatever - on an individual basis; stereotyping your potential mate does little to improve or bolster the relationship.

[c] Mortally Offended continues, "...Atheistic communism crushed and destroyed all that was good and honest in the Russian and Ukrainian people. The biggest problem by far here is NOT economic, it is NOT political - it a MORAL problem. Much of the nation, men and women both, can be characterised [sic] as having the mentality and the outlook of the prostitute or the petty criminal, even if they are educated and cultured. Until the MORAL problem is confronted in the heart of a majority of individual hearts, then this country will go nowhere at all."

"Atheistic communism" has in no way "crushed and destroyed all that was good and honest in the Russian and Ukrainian people." "Atheistic communism" is no more destructive than western "God fearing" capitalism; and to equate Russian "mentality and outlook" to that of a common "prostitute or the petty criminal" is more likely a product of your "appalling experience here in Russia with a girl" than an accurate representation of Russian culture, which you obviously despise.

[d] Mortally Offended continues, "...Many young Russians who have grown up in a "free" Russia seriously believe that honesty = stupidity; that laziness = cleverness; that to be cunning = to be intelligent."

This is a class issue: If you don't desire a criminal mentality, my suggestion is that you avoid the Russian criminal class. Additionally, I can assure you that the majority of Russian women do not share this outlook on life, and in no way "value" or "admire" a man with a criminal "mentality."

[e] And finally, Mortally Offended states, "...[t]here is still a real residual hatred of westerners. The newspapers are full of it. We are hated because we won the Cold War, we are hated because our home countries are not pig-sties, we are hated because we can organise [sic] and arrange and plan our lives whereas Russians have continually messed their lives and their countries up."

Unfortunately, this is a non sequitur. Hatred of westerners' is not institutionalized in Russia, as you would have us believe. There are a variety of attitudes toward westerners' one will encounter in Russia; nevertheless, it's folly to state that Russian's hate American's because we're so wonderful. In fact, many Russian's admire and revere America, our people, and our culture.



Some friendly advise for those seeking a soul mate:

Personally, I don't recommend that an American man search for a wife in the former Soviet Union; cultural and language barriers are often too difficult to overcome. My suggestion is that you look for a wife in the states; by no means limit your search exclusively to Russian women.

While it is true that I'm happily married to a Russian woman, I did not travel to Russia to find her: I met and fell in love with my wife in Pittsburgh, PA (we make our home in the San Francisco Bay Area, California). It's merely a coincidence that she happens to hail from Saratov, Russia. My wife and I fell in love for the right reasons - not out of her desperation to leave the Former Soviet Union. Furthermore, our relationship is based upon TRUE love, mutual respect, honesty, and our desire to be together at all costs. We have fallen hopelessly and undeniably in love with one another, and while she misses her home and relatives, our love for one another and desire to live together and create a family as man and wife has become the driving factor in both our lives. We are living proof that Russian's and American's can form and nurture a loving relationship to the benefit and happiness of both people.

Finally, if you happen to meet a Russian women that you love and cherish, I cannot recommend her highly enough to you: Russian women are beautiful, loyal, direct, intelligent, well educated, tolerant, make wonderful lovers, and in many cases, overflow with love and kindness. Take good care of her; love her; strive to be honest with her; make every effort to understand and accept her culture; devote yourself to her and your children, and I can assure you a long, happy, and very fulfilling relationship with a special person from a charming and very diverse culture.

So, here are an example of another lies "Mortally Offended" spread about Russian / FSU women:

>>>a) Russia and the Ukraine are economically,
>>>enviromentally and financially third-world countries.

That what stupid yankees think and try to buy cheap ladies' meat. Russian women have another understanding of wealthness and living standard. The inner world and moral values are more important for them than financial situation in their country. But that level of inner development stupid Americans can never offer, because they grew up in consumers' society.

>>>In a situation where clever and pretty girls have
>>> to worry not about where they will go on holiday,
>>> but how to pay for their meals or their desired
>>>course of study or the pair of cheap jeans they
>>>like, OF COURSE they will use the means they have -
>>>their looks, sex - to attract to themselves a man
>>>who can provide them with these things

Even without that situation Clever and Pretty girls will naturally do the same - are the US girls different in that point????

>>>>> b) The culture of extreme violence and repression
>>>>> suffered here for centuries - but in an extreme
>>>>> form for all of the 20th century - has produced
>>>>> a nation which still has a slave mentality.

Absolutely wrong and offensive opinion. It is the same like to tell that Germans have slave menthality because of "extreme violence and repression suffered here for centuries - but in an extreme form for all of the 20th century". To try to put history together with actual life do not lead to such conclusion at all. Moreover if Russia women ever have "SLAVE menthality" they surely will act more pleasant for you - like Thai or Philipina women - submissive and loyal.

>>>c) Atheistic communism crushed and destroyed all
>>>>that was good and honest in the Russian and
>>>>Ukrainian people. The biggest problem by far here
>>>>is NOT economic, it is NOT political - it a MORAL
>>>>problem.

Who the hell you are to cry about moral outlook of Russians. You, American wankers, strongly believe in your Mr.BUCK, and are sure that you are able to buy the whole world with US dollars. You are real moral orphans in that sense and I will never tolerate if such stupid a"ss from the States will ever try to teach Russians to moral standards. Read Russian literature - Tolstoi, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov - you have to learn moral values from Russians and NEVER the other way around.

>>>>In addition, few people here believe in anything
>>>>at all. And when people believe in nothing, they >>>>will believe in anything. Hence the widespread
>>>>recourse here to "magicians" (advertised in all
>>>>the papers); the belief in the horoscope, the
>>>>belief in fate or "sudba". It all means that your
>>>>perceptions and assumptions and how you judge
>>>>people are NOT shared by your prospective Russian
>>>>girlfriend.

The advertisements of magicians and publications with horoscopes are definitely less widespreaded in compare to American newspapers. Sudba (means fate in English) is notleading force of Russians, otherwise they'll wait till you take them and will never scam you. Fate domitates in Lathin American TV series on Russian teleision but not in the brain of Russian people. Don't be rediculous, "Mr. Specialist on Russian Soul"

>>>d) Many young Russians who have grown up in
>>>a "free" Russia seriously believe that honesty =
>>>stupidity; that laziness = cleverness; that to be
>>>cunning = to be intelligent.

If there are such cases they came from Hollywood movies, showing YOUR AMERICAN understanding of "honesty" "cleverness" etc. Don't you remember PRETTY WOMAN with Julia Roberts and Richard Gere? Some Russian girls make conclusions after such movies and it is not their fault that yankees promote such way of living when it is not necessary to do anything to live fine.

>>>A "real man" is one who, in the jungle, can survive
>>>and provide for a family. Here, this means (in the
>>>main) a man who can cheat, lie and con his fellow
>>>Russians better than the next man. The girls ADMIRE
>>>them for it. If you are not like this, they will
>>>view you as weak and useless, even if you can
>>>provide for them materially.

Real man is that one who can protect his women from suffering and who can be a man in any situation, and not be a piece of sh#it that need protection of his woman. It is everywhere the truth - Great song of Bonny Tyler "I Need A Hero" (woman's view), Leonard Cohen's "I'm Your Man" (real man's view). It is obvious, but it NEVER means that man has to "cheat, lie and con his fellow" - you do not Russian men at all, Mr. Old A'ss! They are definitely more masculine and decent than you and your Western as*sholes.

>>>e) There is still a real residual hatred of
>>>westerners. The newspapers are full of it. We are
>>>hated because we won the Cold War, we are hated
>>>because our home countries are not pig-sties, we
>>>are hated because we can organise and arrange and
>>>plan our lives whereas Russians have continually
>>>messed their lives and their countries up.

Bulls*hit that even doesn't deserve my comment. But I say that everyone who was here in Russia know that Russians love Westerners and they are very friendly to all foreigners - no one hates you. Some older people hate American President for his policy of global domination, but this hate is never transfered to the US people in general. Europeans are even more loved here. I say that in America there is definitely more hate to newest emmigrants than here to foreign visitors.

All your points are lies, and you should think first - before you write such offensive posting. To other people: doveray no proveray - means "Believe but check out". So before trust to such crazy words about Russians as Mortally Offended idion wrote, visit Russia and develop your own opinion about its people who are in many questions more generous, richer and friendlier than any Westerner.

By the way, your language is not better, you are just truing to put your fascist ideas into "intellectual" packing, but it doesn't go that way. Nazis Cross is visible through your lines.

I think this guy anonymous – is really offended and just ridiculous – he got just a wrong person and ends generalizing Russians women! Look here friend – 2 of my angle went to study in Russia got married to Russian women. They are now Doctors back in my home country Kenya since 25 years – still married and verily happily married! With beautiful children. Now to a contrast – 3 of my angles from the side of my mother went to study in the US, got married to America women, came back home with their American wife’s after their studies – I tell you those marriages lasted not more than 5 years! So what I am saying Mr. offended - All people are the same! No matter where you come from! I will give you another example – there is a tendency of German tourist coming to Kenya to the beach and meeting the beach women! In clubs and so on – falling in love and getting married! Arranging the visa thing for the lady and going to Germany! 3 years later the marriage is broken – will you say that all Kenyan women are beach women!!!! No! Infect the beach women are probably 0.01 per cent of Kenyan women! So don’t generalize Russian women! I was in Russia many times and I saw how American tend to blow their own trumpet – those few hyenas are out there waiting for you boy! And you see the problem is that Russian women are very beautiful and that beauty can easily confuse you! Thinking you got the right one! But you are going out with those few criminals with their own ego ambitions – of either to come to the west and then kick your ass or simply after your dollars! I have dated several women – German, French, Americans and my ex-wife a Swiss – same thing! Since 2 years I am now dating a Russian lady – she is the most wonderful woman I have ever met in my life – name it – beauty, free conversation, loving, caring and openness, natural, family oriented! None could ever be so good! And I am sorry to say my American girlfriend was the worst – aggressive! Un natural and very artificial! But that doesn’t mean all American women are like that!!! Omosante!

I am sure you have your opinion and I have mine. You have your experiences and I have mine. Just my view based on what I experienced and saw.

You may do as you wish and I hope that you have the best of luck. I was just pointing out the age difference and don't tell me that they're all honest. Just like in your native country. I was just pointing out my view and certainly what you think of my offence or not has no bearing on my thoughts.

I was painting with a broad brush the issue with younger women and older guys never mind the cultural differences (and there are lots). And one thing for sure there are lots of other western guys that through their misfortune managed to meet and worse yet marry a scammer with no (IMHO) honor. Just a heads up to singles who believe that everything that is told to them. Was I offended beyond the shadow of a doubt! If lies about kids, false internal passports, previous marriages and mafia connections has something to so with it, then be it so. It's a game and you never know what you get. Sometimes good sometimes bad. If you would have taken the time to read my previous posts you would see that I have never slagged all FSU people but have pointed out, more that once that westerners are not in thier native element and are just so much more at risk. Do not believe everything that you are told or read for that matter. Think for yourself.

>>>>>>The inner world and moral values are more important for them than financial situation in their country.

Such rubbish. If things are so great why are they clamoring to get out? There's lots of men in Moscow.


If the FSU had a great economy these people would be more than happy to stay in their own homeland. In fact if the roles where reversed, well then I would say that people would be immigrating to the FSU.
LOL

If all women dreamed to emmigrate to your s*hit country, there will never be such "travel scams", "visa scams", etc. Aren't you agree? Most women prefer to live here and get some "investments" from stupid westerners, who see these women only as c*unts and not as human beings. I don't think, it is ban - Westerners get what they deserve, as I mentioned already. If some Westerner is serious about Russian wife, he WILL:

1) read Russian media on regular basis (there are many of them with English version on Internet now);
2) study Russian culture, literature, history and menthality - or even better the language;
3) live in Russia at least half a year to feel what these women feel, to breath the same air;

Yes, our people are poor, but they are proud - and they will never let you to but them. If you ever think you succeed in buying Russian lady, she'll take her revange sooner than you can imagine.

Don't scream, and don't reflect the most stupid option I've ever heard that all people want to emmigrate to your "rich country". As for cultural and spiritual level your country is one of the most backwarded in the world.

Anastasia you got it right! It’s sad to read comments such as these ones about Russia women! I am an African from Kenya and in my country we had a time when scholarships were being offered to student to go and study in Russia – so lots of students from my village went to Russia for further study – today they are big doctors and head of departments in Kenya. Now during they stay in Russia as student many of them got married to Russian Women. Today 15 to 20 years later they are still happily married to their Russia women living in Kenya. Now if this guy thinks that all Russian women immigrate for economical reason – then he is very wrong! Kenya is just as poor, yet these loving women loved their husband and family and are still happily married even more than 10 years later! I agree with you Anastasia – let them live in Russia and breathe the same air! To understand what a real Russia women thinks like! I am sick of getting sick and tied of this kinda sick mentality! Omosante!

The so-called guy from Kenya has broken english far more closely aligned to a Russian speaking broken english. Kenyans do not go to the Russian Federation to study to become doctors, they attend through special scholarship programs from the Western Nations to receive proper qualifications. The reason they do this is because the Western nations actually pay for the university expenses of a student from a qualified third world country. Shock! Kenya just happens to be on that list.

I find it very strange that you make claims that your friends either married an American Woman or a Russian woman and that only the to-Russian marriages have continued. Most American white women do not look for boyfriends from Africa, they do not consider them for marriage. If they meet a man who happens to be from an African country while at University, and if they like him, they will probably date him. Very few American women "statistically proven" are eager or even enthusiastic about leaving their country, or even marrying a man outside of their country.

The reason for this is that American women do prefer our REAL MEN, because they represent a future, healthy children, security, partnership, adventure, they are exciting and creative in bed (I have talked to more than enough women from overseas about just how good in bed American men are to actually know that American women do not miss out on anything by staying in country, ironically the same statistic holds for American women in bed. Statistically, according to a recent study done by a German-based condomn manufacturing company, over 80% of all American men who are involved in a monogamous relationship with an American woman are "very satisfied" with the sexual aspect of that relationship.)

Now if you have a shared passion for sociology and the trends that are represented as man evolves, you might also be very interested to know that American women are the most monogamous women in the world with British women coming up closely behind us. Americans have more sex than any other country in the world, the difference is that we prefer one partner. Men worldwide who rated favorite women for partners preferred their own countrywomen over any other woman, including American women, but what really surprised me and most in the US, was to find out that prefered partners for non-American men outside of the women from their own countries, are American or British women.

Only 25% of all American women even bother to marry a non-American male, and the most preferred or attractive non-American male for an American woman is a British man, Canadian, or an Aussie in that order. Men from outside of the states that American women are most curious about are French men. Non-American women that American men are most curious about are German women (?) curious about this reason, but that was the outcome of a 5 year study. Black American women have pursued men from African countries, but show preference to American men.

The divorce rates in Russia are higher at 4 to 3 than the US's 4 to 1, meaning that out of every 4 marriages one ends in divorce in the US, while in Russia 3 out of every 4 marriages ends in divorce, as of 2001.

The sex industry boomed because of "Russian Morality", and thanks to the lack of regard for children, the kiddie industry out of the fcs has become even more of a problem than the numbers coming out of the Asian pacific nations.

For confirmation of statistics and educational cooperative, as well as the real situation and statistics coming out of the FCS, I would suggest you actually do research from credible sites.

The UN offers a myriad of sites, http://www.unicef.org/statis/
http://www.un.org/Pubs/CyberSchoolBus/infonation/e_infonation.htm
http://www.worldbank.org/data/
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762380.html
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0762380.html
http://www.divorcereform.org/nonus.html
http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/bwaters/soc2504/women.html

Before any of my country's men venture to Russia for any reason to do with what they are packing in their pants, be it marriage or sex, please do your research. We all know what it is to be curious, and to seek out experiences, or an answer that we have not found in our own environments. Just make damn sure that you are not going to destroy your life and your future in the process. Especially if you haven't even had your children yet. You are not expendable to your country and her people.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/indicator/cty_f_RUS.html
http://www.worldbank.org.ru/eng/group/strategy3/strategy034.htm

Tons of sites. If you find your other half somewhere else or here, regardless, Good For You! If you are looking remember that the cultures and countries are different. Women from one country to the next are diffrent, and like men, they are a product of the environment in which they have grown up in. Please remember that.

Take care and good luck to you.

I am glad I ama maniac, maybe some of it will sink in to some other unsuspecting person.


You don't even read or comprehend what people say before your swearing starts.

Considering that you are one of the most foul mouthed persons on here and that you now have someone that agrees with you leaves me to question either of your sanity. You don't like anything including except to talk about male body parts, makes me wonder.

Maybe you should read some of the studies that have been done on Russian women versus Western women in the areas of sex (BTW some of these studies where done by your own people). Might surprise you and further more guess which culture is more perverted? Yours! Judging by your comments I can readily believe that!

Just about every post here by you has had some sort of perversive undertones, make me wonder if you are a lady, woman or a guy. Or just plain perverted.

I don't remember that anywhere in the post does it say that all people want to get out, but some of you sure do. You were one of them, if that isn't a fabricated story.

If you are in Moscow I hope that you remain there, in fact you continously state about how great you have it there, so that's a blessing. LOL

As for your comments on what westerners should do, well I've done all three, lived at the end of Metro's Red Line, lived and breathed all the dog sh*t in the parks in the spring, why because there aren't even basic rules about such basic responsibilty. You open your big mouth before you know what I have done and what I have not done. I don't comment on things in my life unless I have been there, done that and experienced it. You on the other hand had your fling in America (big deal) didn't like some physical attribute and then decided to slag all guys from the west. If in fact that is true, doubt it.


Holes in the road big enough to swallow Lada's and all sorts of hassles by local police. There's problems here too but I never saw street vendors getting pounced on and beaten for no reason other than the street was mafia controlled.


Living in such a climate (and while not all of Moscow is like that, but there's a good percentage of it) I am not surprised by your twisted attitude a continous verbal abuse.

I have repeatedly stated that relationship trouble can happen in any country at any time (a point that either you are to dense to comprehend or simply ignore during your dillusional tirades) but when you factor in the cultural differences, potential for not really knowing what the other persons true motives are, and read the rest in all the other posts, western guys are at a distinct disadvantage...

Maybe the solution is just to create a situation where western guys just stay home and FSU women do the same thing. Simple solution. Of course then there would be no profit in that but then at least the scamming would stop, we have enough of that already, why import more?

Just to set the record straight I usually don't respond to your comments, couldn't care less. Impressive that you comment on mine continously maybe just maybe there is some truth in there... LOL

Don't listen to this demented woman/guy or any of her cohorts. Read and research about others experience good/bad then make up your own minds.

....So 40 years plus man is looking for 25 year old range bride ; compound it if man is less than physically attractive & woman is more than average physically attractive ; compound it with that they know each other superficially & short period of time ......expected result is that they fall in love , get married , potentially move to another country & live happily ever after ! ....While each "couple" has its own merit and individual circumstance ....i believe one can safely generalize and say odds are against "you" and the older person in the relationship ( based on his longer life experience ) must "wake up" from his "russian dream" and try to understand what may be the driving force behind the relationship ....and then either accept it and it try to deal with it in a constructive manner or move on !

I dont see your average 25 year old woman in the US wanting to shack up with your average 40 year old male so why should human nature be any different in Russia or Ukraine or Brazil or anywhere ?

Also there are nice girls out there ...and NOT so nice girls ? Same as in the US ...but more diluted as girls there have more options ( nice ones and bad ones ) . So if your date is not so nice ...then you need to make a judgement and move accordingly ! For example i dated ( and I use the word losely ) some not so nice girls in Moscow and Kiev who aside they found me physically attractive , where nevertheless primarily interested in my money ( meaning if no money , bye-bye ) . So if I liked whay i was getting from them ( good SEX primarily ) , then they got what they wanted from me ( money , presents & a good time ) . No SCAM here . Or they were scamming me as much as I was scamming them .

I believe it is unfair to generalize and say Russians? Ukrainians are morally bankrupt . I think this is a wild generalization based on an individual experience emenating from interaction with the minority bandito/prostitution/etc class . While this class and your comments as it may refer to them may be indeed accurate , it nevertheless is not representative of Russian or Ukrainian society . Similarly to generalize and say Americans are culture less and only worship the dollar is more based on limited experience to American life and too much watching of American movies . The world is never black and white and people who think that way are predisposed to having alot of unbuttressed hatred in them !!

I lived in Moscow for 3 years ( on Tverskaya Street )and been in Kiev over 50 times . As you know , if you got money ....life is good . Beautiful young girls with access to the good life ...aren't interested in moving to the States to marry their "father" ( unless their father is George Clooney -))) !!). So to the people who are writing to pictures of Latetia Casta or similar .....wake up and use your brains !! Would you do the same in the States ?

Concerning the remark about dog poo ...well each culture is different and you need to respect that . By the way , the French until recently where not big on scooping after their dogs ! Yes , Russian public places are not clean by our standards ....but our standards dont apply here ! So some cultural sensitivity is needed . You go to live in another country to understand it's culture for what it is AND not to critique versus your own !

Also concerning the remarks about Russian girls "not wanting to move " to **** US or elsewhere in the west ; unfortunately based on the reality of all the web sites that got us to this message board ....then I would say again get real ...to the other party ! At the same time , for the people who are using these sites , I would suggest that they understand that these women are first looking to escape their economic/life situation .....and secondly for "you" specifically !!! Let's appreciate this aint the real world , boy meets girl in the course of normal life , date , have things in common , live together , maybe get married .... !! This is the fast track !!

Lastly with any long distance romance ..odds are agaist you , let alone bridging the cultural difference , let alone bridging any potential age differences !! So in that regard it is always better and easier to look closer to home ....unless one is prepared to address and deal with these issues !!

Cheers to all !

Thank you "Get Real" for the truth - you've told them exactly what I wanted to say, but better because your words came from man's view and from the Westerner.

The person who was able to see only dog sh*it on Moscow streets and mafia gangs in our capital will surely treat his Russian lady as a slave and the second class person, he'll always remind her from what shi@t country he rescued her. And no one girl will tolerate it. "Anonymous" has exposed himself completely - with such hate to Russia nobody in Russia will like him, and it's naturally (love it or leave it - don't you say that).

My opinion about mail order brides business is the same - let girls stay here and old wankers wank in America! IMPORTANT: to prevent temselves from Westerners' scam Russian girls have to avoid any deep contacts with "potential husbands". The difference is however that our girls are young and inexperienced, that's why they always become the victims of dirty old men who came from West and seduce/rape/humilate them promising marriage and better living. Our ladies are victims of scam and not those crazy guys who write hundreds of letters to womenrussia.com's black list screaming how they have been scammed for 10 dollars by russian mafia-whores!

Guys, have the shame at least!

How all of a sudden everyone focuses on the parks in the spring.

Glad I brought it up and it started a tirade. LOL

Sure lets focus on something else other than women who want to get out, 15+ difference or not, who know it's a big self admitted FSU lotto. LOL

And further more I stated that dog stuff and worse can exist anywhere, again you just choose to focus and vent your hatred, probably fueled by you getting jilted or whatever it was.

With a mouth like your no one could put up with you, as a matter of fact you probably hate yourself. One again you only focus on whatever you can respond to with hate.

To all the people reading this board, just check all the filthy postings this person has contributed and now ask yourself, hopefully this one is not an ambassador to her own country or a role model for Russian women. A person like this is trouble for any sane person. LOL

True or not! Deny your own mouth.

I was just pointing out a difference (or maybe we can talk about public facilites, employees are just to lazy to clean them? Or? Hopefully this will start another debate. LOL), if you don't like the stink too bad. I personally didn't give a damn about the stink (lot's of place sin the world stink LOL) , it's not my city, it was just an observation that people don't clean up after dogs. Oh sorry I know that you have to pay for plastic bags. LOL


And since you can't figure it out that it's tongue in cheek then ... LOL But then you have bigger problems for sure.

But I will admit one thing your language has cleaned up, at least you quit talking such filthy trash, so you must be over the big bad ex's physical attibutes.
LOL

I agree on one thing leave the women there (since you think it's such a great idea). As the "perv's" (which you have enough of in your own country LOL) of foreign nationality going over there and picking up women stay away find yourself a nice lady (locally) and go on a great cruise. At least you won't be wondering about the parks in spring. LOL

***********
Our ladies are victims of scam and not those crazy guys who write hundreds of letters to womenrussia.com's black list screaming how they have been scammed for 10 dollars by russian mafia-whores!
************


Since they are listed on womenrussia.com's list it would mean that they are on the net trolling for some guy to get them out or send money to. Therefore the next step, logically, one could state that this is the type of person you immigrate or send money to. LOL


How would you know the going rate...??? LOL But thanks for the info.

basically just summed up what I've been saying all along... just a different way of putting it. LOL Stay away from the scammers. Listed in the previous post is exactly the truth.

Well except for the park stuff... I just decided to throw that in (true as it is) and sure enough the defenders of the homeland just jump right on the bandwagon. Can some people really be so dense?

Anonymous,

You mention some research on difference between Russian women and westerners. Could you email me as to where I can find this research?

withrows

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2533/russfem.html

Anatasia - You Are The Maniac of Propaganda Machine

Living in Switzerland, I help poor people as long as my life. But all the poor, (really poor) are proud to be clever, clean, and not criminal.
What need in your east countries, is a little bit more respect of yourself, than you will be able to respect the other.
I am poor too, but I help poor as in all proportions, they want to be clean and not act criminal to have just little money more.
Best regards
Thomas Reubi

obivously you have a big problem with men. some of us are sincere and looking for a sweet lady. not a slave. i suggest that you take your medication (take the entire bottle!) you are a disgrace to your gender. crawl back into your dog house. have a nice day!

Of course, you are right Anastasia - if only there were more women like you in England. america is essentially a soulless cultureless post-modern wasteland and it spreads its vile sub-culture around the world like a disease. Culturally, it is like a spoiled parentless child - as it has no culture of its own and so it persists in destroying the culture of other nations with its amoral secular humanistic materialism and finance capitalism - and if somebody scolds it for its misbehaviour, it flies into a sulk. So I wouldn't worry about what they say - most of their women [ and perhaps most Anglo-Saxon women ] are, in any case, sexually-repressed - they are mostly termagants and slatterns and western men are just passive beasts of burden, tied to the treadmill of usury. What I can't understand is why so many Russian women are so attracted by such superficial nonsense? What are their motives?

Of course, Russia has also been guilty of trying to take over the world with similar means; viz. communism, but perhaps there is still something of the soul of the Russian people still barely alive under the surface. But what I do find difficult to understand is why so many Russian women [ and not men ] are so keen to find their love in another country. I myself hold no hope for the american or European 'family', as it is a dying breed. Russia, on the other hand, despite its history and even still present economic chaos, still seems to have retained an element of tradition [ something americans may find difficulty in uderstanding ]. So why look elsewhere? You are living in probably the most vital country in the world, if only you realised.

We have dog**** in this country too - most of it is packaged-up as television programmes or socio-political ideologies imported from america.

Of course, women, it could be said, are perhaps more materialistic than men - more passive and led by their senses rather than their minds and perhaps in an american or European man, they see a means of providing for them - it must seem so glamorous [ all that dog****, crime, debt, stress, superficiality ] - perhaps not such a laudible motive for marriage, but one which is not uncommon throughout the world over. It is the men who accept this who are the fools - western man in particular, as he sees a problem and thinks the only way of solving it is to throw money at it.

Another interesting statistic is that Russian marriages are the most likely to fail, followed by american... and Russian women are the most promiscuous in the world [ Is that true? ] [ !? ]. Quite provably, americans have the smaller brains.

By the way, the 'Russian mafia' isn't Russian at all.

Maybe you two should thrash it out with a nuclear war [ I think you both fancy each other, really ], but stay the hell away from Europe as both of you have done enough damage here.

However, I would take issue with the following statements: "Another interesting statistic is that Russian marriages are the most likely to fail, followed by american... and Russian women are the most promiscuous in the world [ Is that true? ] [ !? ]. Quite provably [sic], americans have the smaller brains."

I rather doubt "Russian women are the most promiscuous in the world". On what evidence do you base that assertion?

Moreover, the following statement is simply ridiculous: "By the way, the 'Russian mafia' isn't Russian at all."

Would you have us believe the Russian Mafia is French, or perhaps Serbian? What nonsense.

And this statement is simply absurd: "You are living in probably the most vital country in the world, if only you realised.[sic]"

Have you ever visited Russia? Personally, I doubt it; had you ever done so, I doubt you would make such a statement.

Perhaps Russian and american marriages fail for different reasons, but they are both undeniably the world leaders in this respect; in fact they both make a mockery of the concept of marriage, whose essence is its permanence - it's more like a long-term date to most people these days. When one in three marriages fail, one ought to ask the question why? Perhaps it boils down to the fact that people, moreso women the world over are so materialistic due to her inherent sensual nature that when her man, through no fault of his own [ in the Russian example, due to the economy perhaps ] can no longer support her and give her the things that [she thinks ] she needs, she looks elsewhere - how many women do you see with a poor man and how many women do not include something to do with finances in their internet resumes - if not in the resume, then surely after a few letters; thus she may seem to see her man as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself, but this is nothing new and is not limited to Russia, either. But just take a look at the geographical spread of women 'searching for love' on the internet - you will be lucky to find any from those countries in Europe with a bouyant economy, but there are tens and tens of thousands of women from Russia and former Russian territories - surely not all of their men can be alcoholics? So, all I was suggesting was that a man needs to take care and consider the motives of such a woman - many of these Russian women make themselves out to be so nice and 'fluffy' and are looking for a man who is 'kind', but what does 'kind' mean?. I understand the nature of their economy and that it is not an unjustifiable wish to look for a better future, but their priorities seem to be first leave their country, then marriage - before even meeting a man - how can this be? Surely the concept of marriage comes after meeting someone and not before, or am I too simple in my outlook? Of course everybody wants to love and to be loved; it is one of the weaknesses of human nature, but surely, in any case, love can transcend any materialistic difficulties, otherwise, what's the point? If that's all that matters then one could see all men as pimps and all women as prostitutes and that's rather depressing. You may ask then why do I find myself on such a site? - it is not to knock these women at all, or even to prey on their weaknesses [ I actually admire them, as they certainly seem to be a cut above the average British or american termagant, seemingly having retained an element of their true feminine nature, although this can cut both ways ], as some people seem to; in fact my reference to the 'vitality' of the Russian soul may explain it; see below.

As for americans having smaller brains than Europeans - I guess I was joking, but it has apparently been proven, although it is not likely to be aired freely in such a socio-political climate that prefers to see everyone as 'equal' - God forbid that anybody should be different to the mass-produced standard range of automaton that hales from america, let alone superior.

... 'Russian women are the most promiscuous women in the world' came from an international women's internet magazine, made by women, for women, about women. It's truth is, I agree debatable, as it came from a woman's mouth [ or pen ] after all, but it was based on a survey and it was not necessarily an assertion of mine, but merely a quote from the said magazine, which I found slightly humorous, considering the banal nature of many Russian women's resumes they seem to say what they think we what to hear ]. Admittedly, statistics prove nothing and one can 'prove' anything with them. It was just an interesting statistic and I wondered if it would cause any reaction. It interests me...

I read you are 'happily married to a Russian woman' and I'm glad you're happy - I was not knocking Russian-american marriages [ although it seems most americans throw their money around out of a deep-rooted need to impress - and in many cases, it works with the more gullible amongst us, especially those who are economically-challenged, namely those from Eastern-block countries ], I was merely questioning the motives for marriage in the first place, regardless of nationality or economic well-being - surely it has to be something on a deeper level than material needs?

America is more complex, I feel and divorce there is more to do with a lack of ethics, culture and any traditional core - it is itself the core of the rot that eats away at the rest of the world and the statistics to do with failed marriages there merely point, in this case, to one of the many charateristics of the inherent instability in a state without a tradition - where amoral, asexual trash rule the roost, giving birth to a new generation of fatherless children [ in my language, they are called bastards ], who then perpetaute the myth of the american nightmare and play their game of cowboys and indians with anyone who doesn't see it theie way. Women there seem not to have any maternal instincts or any soul-imperative that would traditionally correspond with the mother or lover archetypes, but she would prefer to seek 'independence' and 'equality' [ equal, meaning 'the same as' men ] and willingly become another passive slave to the system and she is ruthless in her attempts to 'succeed' - something that men, quite ironically, have been fighting to free themselves for so many generations and now find themselves under the feet of these hetaera. Of course, like anything, there are exceptions to this, but they are few in number, sadly.

As for the Russian mafia, do I need to point out that decoys are a common weapon in political espionage - something that many people fail to see, as they don't look any further than the superficiality of things and the [ privately owned and controlled ] media-edited version of reality, which is, of course, fact [ ? ]. Simply because they are in Russia, does not necessarily mean that they are Russian, culturally, or even ethnically speaking, but they are merely hiding behind a false paradigm fostered by years of east-west angst. That's not to say that there aren't Russian mobsters, of course, but like any mafioso organisation, it is always a power struggle between rival factions and who stands to gain most when those beneath them are divided? [ yes, those that remain undivided ]. I shall say no more, other than remind you that Bolshevism itself was not Russian in origin either and one must ask who finances these movements, who controls them and what do they stand to gain by them in order to answer the question. We all know [ don't we? ] about the slave trade of Russian and Ukrainian women through to other countries [ not necessarily the West, by the way - look in the other direction and down a bit ] and one has to look no further than some of the posts on this site to see that it is real... ridiculous though it may seem [ I would say it is more terrifying that ridiculous ].

When I referred to the vitality of Russia I was talking of its Spiritual-Cultural vitality, which, despite the country's appearances and economic situation [ something that, in the main, is the only thing superficial people use as a basis for any qualititive judgement ] [ and I would further allay your doubts; I have in fact visited Russia, america and half of Europe ] has been lying dormant for many decades [ since the attempt by Bolshevism to destroy it ] - the absurdity of the statement, therefore, is only subjective and I might actually agree with you if it was based on merely external factors... An example of this being the attempts by Bolshevism to create an atheistic state, for instance, where they claimed all the Orthodox churches for secular, and in some cases, truly barbaric uses. Nothwithstanding this, and despite outer appearances, those values that the Russian people had held dear to them as intrinsic to their culture, continued and were in a sense rejuvinated - not just religion, if at all, but with it came a new sense of identity [ I feel ], not necessarily with the advent of Glasnost [ which may just have been a means to allow Russia into the free-trade trap ], but earlier than that when Stalin, albeit a barbarian himself, returned the country to a more Nationalistic state, rather than a communist one, ridding his country of culture-subverters, as similarly did Ukraine later. And when I talk of culture, I would include its organic nature, which, like all organisms, has an imperative; a destiny, which in Russia's case lies unfulfilled, I feel. Of course, america and Europe in true fashion have since done their very best to 'accommodate' Russia into their free-trade empire [ read 'pit of usury' ] and have succeeded in brain-washing many of them into their 'democratic' ways, which may seem righteous and glamorous to the half-witted, but which are a true sign of a civilisation in decline. So when I talk of vitality, it is the essence of the Russian soul that I am referring to, not necessarily on a personal level or a physical one [ ie. one that you can necessarily visibly see ], but a cultural one [ it affects only those people who bear their culture within themselves - not the mob or the rabble that you find in the streets, who are merely passive instruments of world events and ideas ], which has, like I said, many unfulfilled potentials - unlike the West, which has over the same period of time degenerated into a secular humanistic materialistic decadent society in ruins, based entirely on money and all at the beck and call of the world banks. Nietzsche said, 'what doesn't destroy me, only makes me stronger' and in some ways, that rings true with Russia - it has not yet succumbed to the western way of decline, but is sure as hell heading there, as evidenced by some of the replies from our Czarist sisterhood, so young and so beautiful she may be [ it's a pity the traditional sense of feminine modesty doesn't reside in her lovely self ] [ maybe you have yet to have the pleasure? ]. Russia has been anaesthetised for a hundred years and now it awakes to find america and Europe feeding it the same old poison - and so many of them seem to take it willingly in mouthfuls.

Your doubts seem to suggest a justification for so many Russian women wanting to leave their country of origin? Perhaps they are justified in some ways, but why specifically america or Europe - what do they have in common?

Your fairly narrow in your knowledge and understanding of the world. Its interesting that you would consider yourself knowledgeable about the US, and then reveal such ignorance and obvious subjectivity in your post.

It is blatantly impossible for a country as multi-cultural as the US is and with its population, and regional separations, to have "no culture". It is the most multi-cultural nation in the world, made up of such a mix of ethnic diversity, that for those who are accustomed to one dominant culture within a nation's borders, it would clearly be mind boggling, but for anyone to suggest that culture is non-existant is reflective of a small mind.

For you to claim to be from the UK this ignorance is either because you are truelly brainless, or just suffering from a narcissitic disorder, a superiority complex that is based on nothing more than an over-inflated self-image.

But then going by the rest of your statements, ie: the Russian Mafia not being the Russian Mafia, etc. would signify genuine ignorance.

I am talking about Culture with a capital C - not the carcinogenic sub-culture of coca-cola and macdonalds.

What is mind-boggling is your idea of multi-culturalism as being something to be proud of and, more importantly, force on the rest of the world, when evidently, mutli-culturalism is showing itself world-wide to equate to non-culturalism and especially the destruction of the host culture, which just becomes a syncretic mix of parasitised non-ens.

To whom would you be referring as 'those who are accusomed to one dominant culture' if not almost every other country in the rest of the world, who has managed to survive very well thank you for thousands of years without your fallacious ideologies?

What is interesting is that 7/8ths of your post was directed at me on a personal level and not the ideas that I put forward, which is not conducive to an adult discussion, but is, however, so typical of a pathological denial of truth.

ignorant and narcissistic. Multi-culturalism is not Coca Cola, and actually multi-culturalism is the only real means of insuring man's survival, because through multi-culturalism is tolerance and diversity. It is unfortunate that you do not get that, but not a great loss.

You are simply a hater of Americans, pure and simple. You can not under any circumstances attempt to justify that by faking an intellect.

Your post was nothing more than a spew from someone who seems to think they have something to say, and unfortunately said nothing outside of generalization and profound subjectivity. Those who use such mannerisms as a means to formulate opinions of others in the world are ignorant. The level of grandiosity that you seem to suffer from was the only thing revealed in your posts.

This is not meant as an insult, although I would expect you to take it as such. That to is unfortunate, your lack of insight into yourself, and your blindness to the world and the people around you, has done nothing but rob you of the most simple of understandings in life itself. You deprive yourself of ever gaining any wisdome or understanding as a direct result of your ignorance, and deprive others of the respect they are due just for being who they are.

Ignorant? Ignorant of what? With all your empty words of liberal-marxist rhetoric, you have failed to enlighten me as to how or why I am so ignorant. I will remain ignorant, then, as it is, so they say, such a blissful state of mind. What I fail to understand, however, is how you are seemingly trying to turn this posting board into a platform for expressing and enforcing such pallid conditioned views on any thinking Cultural person, who may have been interested in the intended subject matter of the same. I may seem to be formulating other people’s opinions? But some people’s opinions are characterised by their very formulaicity - the views you express seem to be nothing more than those empty slogans imposed upon the masses by the governing paradigm, which are adopted by the passive and weak-minded mob.

What [ I think ] was being discussed was the cultural differences, particularly those of Russian and Ukraines, from a Western viewpoint, but you would have us believe that there is no such thing as cultural difference? Then why are you at this site? Why Russian women, why not Australian aboriginals? Or if there are differences, then they should all be merged into one, whether we like it or not?

In the context of culture, however, I feel that your use of the term ‘Narcissistic’ is not entirely appropriate, as unlike Narcissus, I am not at all enamoured with the complexion of my own culture either, or more accurately, what it has become, as it follows co closely in the footsteps of our american cousins on the road to depravity; like a petrified poodle, wagging its tail and begging for crumbs from the great Leviathan. Great Britain may once have been a country that dominated seventeenth twentieths of the world’s landmass, but, over the course of a few generations, two world wars [ that we are led to believe we won ] and a forced inorganic schism from our traditions and culture, based on economics, crass materialism and socio-political brain-washing, of which your ‘multi-culturalism’ forms just a part, it has now become a veritable third-rate banana republic inhabited by fatherless futureless traditionless cultureless alienated raceless drug-addicted brain-washed dregs sucking the system dry – much like america. Of course, I can already hear cries of ‘you’re living in the past, living on past glories’, but I would ask the question, ‘must a cultural organism be ‘tolerant’ of such parasitic behaviour and intolerance towards its own body of tradition to such a self-destructive degree?’ But don’t misunderstand me, I am not preaching intolerance, of course – like anything, one must exercise a degree of temperance, but a host culture, in order to remain alive, can accommodate only upto a certain point where the secondary culture is able and willing to assimilate itself organically – a synthetic occurrence; when it is taken to an extreme, however, as it is taken to an extreme in the vocalising and imposition of such socio-political dogma as you are suggesting, where it is claimed that certain things are ‘facts’ when they are provably the opposite, it becomes syncretic, destructive and it is that very diversity that is surely one of the first casualties, in any case, which gives rise to alienation and the cultureless modern society we live in, as spearheaded by america, who all look up to as an example, especially those from the East, who see the glamour and the glitz, but as they are so far away, cannot smell the putrid stench of decay. To say, therefore, that it is the only real means of ensuring man’s survival seems to be a lie of the greatest proportion, as it implies that his main enemy is his own culture, which is surely what your enemies want you to think. But it is not the first time this ‘tolerance’ that you so enthusiastically [ and objectively? ] claim as being the answer to all our worries has reared its ugly head in the context of meta-history. One only needs to look at what happened to those peoples who similarly enthralled themselves with such decadent ideals; namely, the Mesopotanians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, whose final phase of self-destruction was characterised by similar utopian fallacies.

Having said that, Narcissus would be preferable to Oedipus.

But I do not hate americans and I would ask, for once, that whoever is going to express their opinion, kindly express it on the basis of what has been said and not what one imagines has been said. This is not a personal vindictive, despite your attempts to make it one. I do, however, hate american ‘culture’ and all its superficiality and that I do not deny.

As for ‘subjectivity’, am I to understand your personal fulmination as an example of rational objective appraisal? If so, then it is clear that our respective levels of understanding of these issues are at variance, as you quite rightly infer. But can you not summon within yourself any tolerance towards my subjectivity? After all, I am only a man and I have opinions and more importantly, I am entitled to have them.

You speak of tolerance, but, as is so often the case with deluded ideologues and the soulless pawns that soak up their putrid sputum, you show an almost totalitarian intolerance to anybody whose views differ from your own. I would welcome rational debate, but cannot suffer any form of irrationality, especially when it betrays itself as being so confoundedly arrogant.

I am not saying that I have the answers; I am merely asking questions – if the questions themselves can’t find their way past your stultified consciousness, then how can they be answered?

But do I deprive myself of ever gaining any wisdom or understanding as a direct result of my ignorance? Surely I would deprive myself of such inalienable rights of any man if I were to read your propaganda in earnest. In any case, can it not be said that the most ignorant person might have the most potential for gaining wisdom, as he is the furthest away from it?

As for the charge of being grandiose, before which I stand, I call to my witness the English language – another casualty in your culture-distorting belief-system, as evidenced by only a fraction of it being used in modern parlance; thus suggesting the superior intellect of its progenitors, whose memory you would have obliterated and replaced with such mindless vulgarities as yo mo fo no pro let’s go f-u ok no-go, as is force-fed our future generation by the cultural syphilis of our colonial brethren’s hollywood and as is manifested in all its inglory on various posts on this site. Is it no wonder that our youth are the way they are? Crimes waiting to be committed – disillusioned and dysfunctional loners, angry at everything, as they can’t see how they fit in to all of this, born out of a culture they only read about in books, as they are taught by their leftist teachers to hate themselves. If one cannot articulate one’s ideas, then those ideas cannot be worth articulating and those few words that one might have in one’s verbal repertoire – those few empty words [ or grunts ] that ‘the party’ allows you to posses - will confound you and frustrate you, so you must attack anything of a superior order or of traditional value under the guise of ‘progress’, as it reminds you of your own ineffectual nature and spiritual barrenness. Perhaps it is my ideas that are grandiose? But I would prefer that to criminal sterility, blandness, vacuity, uniformity and slow death.

As for respect, it is earned and cannot be handed out by some shallow bill of rights designed to appeal to the inflamed ego of the democratised masses, who think they get what they want, but, in fact, are programmed to want what they get.

Notwithstanding the above, I feel that this post-board is not the appropriate forum to discuss such matters. Please keep to the subject in hand in future, as it is not my responsibility to educate you.

"With all your empty words of liberal-marxist rhetoric..."

"...as they are taught by their leftist teachers to hate themselves..."

"Anonymous", you sound like the Rush Limbaugh of Albion! LOL

Just to the right of George Walker (Dubya) Bu****, I presume. LOL

Maybe you're right. We do seem to be digressing somewhat, don't we?

But it's interesting how you home in on the political aspect of all this. I must have touched a nerve. Right and left to me are just two sides of the same coin and are so often played-off against each other. I try to stay away from politics, as I find it is monopolised by homosexuals and other deviants.

Speaking of which, unlike Bush, and nine tenths of your presidents and a large proprotion of our government, I am not a 33rd degree freemason.

But I am interested why a man who is happily-married to a Russian woman finds himself at this site.

Can we get back to Russian and Ukrainian women, please; they are far more interesting.

I admit defeat.

But what is a 'ditto-monkey'?

In my global trotting I have found that people for the most part are the same. Mores change but the morals never do. In the 80+ countries I have visited the goverments are the same, rotten, and the people are just trying to cope with their unique problems in every day life. The pompous ass that started this forum needs to travel a little and grow as a person, only then will he be happy.

I sit here and Read your Messages while i ponder everything going around.

i have several kids. all from different countrys.

and i gotta say we are all the same even if we grew up poor or rich we are all the same.

Now i can complain or i can candeem or i can praise you all for the good or bad advice.

now first of all i been trying to do check on the girls my son wants to meet to make sure he doesnt get burned, but in the long run we will have Ms Garett do it because she is a professional.

as for you people that say the mafia is bad and ect. all they are is a bunch of mercenarys trying to earn a few bucks.

about the checks so far my connections havent pulled up anything

not that it matters.

now about them being whores or sex workers.

in my opinion we all have to survive somehow meaning if we have to be a sex worker,car salesman or mercenary we are just trying to survive like the next person.

i might be a old man but i do know that you can blast each other out.

some people mabee has a bad exsperiance with former sovioet union woman.

but it is no good to make other people feel bad and say there bad.

some people have probloms with aussie woman or yank woman. so what i say you can try to bridge the gap and try to teach them the langaguge. or you can go on with your life and look for a yank girl closer to homw

some men get rejected to easy and they choose the best possible way witch is a former soviet union girl or asian girl and look what happens they get used.

not all woman are scammers.

some are genuine.

Ms Garett said that several times to my son and yet my son is to pigheaded to relize it.

well only way to find out is to hire her.

now as for other things. son questions the postal service i say if you write a girl and they dont hear back within 4 months give it up. he wont. he is to pigheaded. theres plunty of girls that want to get to know him if he diverts his plan and writes them untill holding his breath blue and seeing if the others write back.

now anyone know anything about why scamalertfreeservers are gone?

i would like to know.

as for you all i think like i said some got burned and some got rejected so there trying to get even.

if i where you all you should try to be nice and pull your resources and you might suceed in what you wana get across point wise.

as for me well like i said we are all equil in my heart and soul and if men are having probloms finding a woman in there country then mabee its them or mabee its other reason but by god i dont think its the american woman or other woman that is the problom.

i think its rejectoion

now i think i made myself clear.

if you want to flame away be my guest.

only one your hurting in the long run is you.

i just wanted to let you know that if you want to be safe pay for ms garetts services and she will do the job right.

now if your reading this ms garett my son Matthew will contact you shortly or he will have a boot up his backside.

i am sorry for the long delay and his pigheadedness.

Peace and love

Major

P.S. if god wanted us not to be all equil he would of made us this way but in my opinion we are all equil what we have is gifts from god. some are better with russian woman and some with american while others are masters in painting and ect

bottom line is we all have hidden and known talent and god gave it to us.

so we are all equil.

peace,love and tranquility

Russian, Ukraine, German, American, Latin,.... who gives a damn. Filthy mouthed people are everywhere, the only thing for sure is that marrying someone outside of your own country is dicey. People do stuff for money and a better life, the details (you) are secondary. If they are scamming you will be trashed as soon as possible and they will get into what their original agenda was.

In country marriages, at least in the west, might end in failure but at least you have a better chance of realizing a partner that just wants to use you before you tie the knot. Further more western law is such that if either partner splits it will be a fair settlement and they will be out of your hair. Import them and your on the hook for years to come. Eastern women want out for one and one reason only a better life! Do not ever think that there is a lack of men in their country, who ever started that BS. And if the men are drunks, unloving, blah blah as the marriage agencies claim then let them deal with their issues there, no use importing it. The scammers leave nothing but a trail of devestation their wake. Hopefully you'll not be bobbing in it.

all the negatives mentioned here could occur if you married someone in your own country in any case.

as in all relationship you need to know the other person well and both have similiar feelings if you want to go down the marriage path.

Maybe some people aren't saying the whole story but i get the feeling that some on here who have had bad relationship have had these because they rushed into it.

With me i didn't meet my ukrainain wife through an agency or dating site and when we first met we went out a couple of times nothing serious but we did find out a fair bit about each other and before i returned home we exchanged e_mail addresses and she gave me her phone number and we corresponded for 2 years before i returned to the ukraine and i went back another 3 times and on that third time we became engaged and in may i returned again and we were married.

I met her family and friends and spent time with them on all 3 trips and on my 4th trip which was for 8 weeks i spent 2 weeks with my wife and her parents in uzgorod.

I feel overall we know each other as well as could be expected and sure people tell me will it work out when you are together 24 hrs a day seven day's a week - who knows is all i can say but it won't be through a lack of trying by either of us.

All marriages go through their ups and downs but if both people want it too work they will do what is needed.

maybe some of the problems relates to the wife being in a new country and leaving family and having no friends etc and only seing the husband too as relocating is quite daunting for most people as not everyone is good at meeting new friends etc.

just think if it was you relocating and think how you would cope with this and life in a new country which is completely different to the one you have known.

Thanks for the note. Good luck and all the best. It's refreshing to get to see a story that doesn't read; Internet, marriage agency, scammer, western guy, marriage, immigration and divorce.

Moral; stay away from marriage agencies, go live there for a period of time and then if you want, (once you understand what the culture is all about) find a nice person. Long term friendships usually tend to weed out the scammers as they are interested in a solution to their problems ASAP.

If God wanted us to be equal, he would have made use equal - evidently, he didn't - some people can spell and others can't.

If God wanted us all shorne he would have made us all sheep.

Me i had enough trouble with 7 Americans not to get into that trouble again

Gees all that shooting etc over some poor village in mexico.

Unbelievable how many ignorant, deluded, and just plain STUPID holier-than-thou a$$holes there are sliming their way through here. Although in all likelihood, they're just the very trash that the original poster referred to, or have very real (monetary) interests in downplaying these truths about the entire Russian bride "industry" being one big scam. What he said entirely rings true, not just because it's obvious he knows what he's talking about, but because anyone with half an IQ point has figured out by now that Russian culture is f*cked beyond repair (at least in this generation). It's a society that has deteriorated into one where deceit is the norm, and it doesn't just make itself obvious in day-to-day life in Russia, either. It's obvious even half a globe away, in the way it comports itself on the world stage...the Kursk disaster, the Olympics, etc...and these are carefully PR-doctored views of Russia that foreigners get, to top it off!

Face it...if you have an ounce of grey matter, and an ounce of self-esteem, none of the sugarcoating that any of these dirty scamming sons of scum will make an iota of difference to you: you'll know the score and you'll know to avoid anything related to this Russian bride/dating garbage. In my book, Ukrainians are better because they seem to have held on to their basic values in ways that Russians never did, but that still only means something when dealing with them personally, hopefully after they've moved to a first-world country and are working at building an honest life...dealing with them via "Ukrainian bride" schemes will net you just as much abuse and loss as their Russian counterparts, and with all the warnings that are now so readily available, you'll deserve each and every piece of heartache and poverty that goes with it, if you still go ahead with that crap.

Russia is a scumhole. The bride scams are just one aspect of it (and admittedly one on the lower, ****tier end of the scale).

Women are the same everywhere for the most part. Yes some differences in culture. But for the most part Russian FSU women are beautiful and wonderful people. As a stranger on the streets I was treated better than family. If you are real and capture her heart you will be one lucky guy. Do not buy into the fact you can treat them like **** and she will love you for it. What woman would?

Every woman is different in personality. No matter where you go! Just be real and do not expect a beauty 30 years old to be happy with a 75 year old man. Can you say red flag? There are as many scammers in your own country as any other. So please lay of of some of the most wonderful people I have ever met in my life. Men and Women! They are amazing people that I fell in love with. I have been to almost every country in the world. I love the Russian Ukrainians!