Google Earth Photo. Purple Gang Era Kidnap Hideout
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There is a rumor going around on the hoax board that you need to square away.
ARE YOU OK? Please post something to let us know you are OK. We are all thinking you passed, after Sam or someone claiming to be him, posted that you had died.
Hope all is well, and if you are busy just stop over to he hoax board to let us know you are OK. OK?
Pat
Posted on Nov 6, 2009, 6:28 AM from IP address 68.198.47.65
Anne Morrow Lindbergh News - The New York TimesA Newspaper Reports Lindbergh Fathered 3 Children in Germany ... Anne Morrow Lindbergh; Hesshaimer died in 1999; daughter, Astrid Bouteuil, gave information ...
topics.nytimes.com › Times Topics › People › L - Cached - Similar -
Posted on Nov 26, 2009, 4:22 PM from IP address 128.104.49.216
They are unfair at most sites but noticed that they sometime make a person angry with the comments. I try to slow down the posts when there is a conflict as it may just be a miss understood choce of words that might seem right when posting, but on second thought seems wrong. So I take my time to get back to a post that I may have mistaken as negative to my post.
Posted on Dec 25, 2008, 11:29 PM from IP address 99.164.36.209
Here is a great collection of information from a book written by Mark Falzinin the Director of a New Jersey State Museum that Houses the Lindbergh Kidnap Collection
In 1927, young airmail pilot Charles A. Lindbergh wowed the world by being the first to fly nonstop from New York to Paris. His daring accomplishment won him not only the $25,000 prize, but worldwide recognition. It also cost him his privacy that lasted a lifetime. In 1932, the son of Charles and Anne Lindbergh was kidnapped and later found dead-a crime that shocked America and the world. Bruno Hauptmann was tried, convicted, and executed for his role in the little boy's death.
Their Fifteen Minutes is a unique collection of biographical essays filling in the blanks and providing background regarding the key figures involved in the case, such as:
-Henry "Red" Johnson, the first "prime suspect"
-Hans Kloppenburg, Hauptmann's best friend
-Jafsie, also known as Dr. John F. Condon, who served as the intermediary between the kidnappers and the family
-Betty Gow, a servant employed by the Lindberghs
Until now, the lives of those touched by this case have gone virtually unrecorded. Known only for their brief encounter with history, Their Fifteen Minutes tells the rest of their story showing there was much more to them than their fifteen minutes of fame.
http://www.amazon.com/
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/
Posted on Dec 4, 2008, 6:04 PM from IP address 99.164.57.149
Did Anonymouse do it, in 1932 newspapers hit the streets proclaiming a letter from Anonymouse tells of Lindbergh having Whatley dig a hole near a tree on the estate to bury some of the childs things.
It takes more than just words to convince Willentz and Trenchard, especialy if they already had Hauptmann pegged as the fall guy. Mr. Schipple, a close neighbor to Lindbergh admits to having Charley, as he claimed charley wandered onto his property, claiming he was holding the child for his parents, but a wild animal killed the child.
I believe something else happened that perhaps not Schipple but Lindbergh, Anne, or Elizabeth were resposible for, and Schipple tried to help with a lame excuse he had to retract. If you examine all the neighbor stories you will see they were making fancifull stories to cover what they all appently knew really happened. There was even an anonymouse letter claiming the child was burried nezt to a tree, that Lindbergh had Whatly dig a hole for. I don't think it was our anonymouse ,but one might ask him if he did it?
Pig Lady tells of New York Gangster types renting her cabins asking questions about Lindbergh's. Oh yeah all the neighbors report seeing green sedans, and finaly people who come here to this forum 75 year later still make excuses for the Lindbergh's who seem to be the real culprits.
It is quite suspicious why people seventy five years later keep re-interpreting the case with torn sheets of paper information, and denial of affadavits Gov. Hoffmann must have had in order for re-investigating the case. Ellerson and Whatley both sent Gov. Hoffman affadavits that something else happened to Charley,perhaps an accident. Looking back at how the neighbors covered Lindbergh even down to the blind neighbor who saw a green sedan, it makes you wonder what information did all those neighbors really have?
Regarding those selective bits of partial information you guys keep trying to interject here, pasting a part of evidence or fragments of a torn sheet, is the same as re-construeing the original evidence to fit your own theory. Dave's posts just drip with re-construed evidence, hearsay in the court of law, from off the cuff secrets in interviews just given to him by authors and case participants, who if they had that information why didn't they put it in their books. This kind of information is hard to believe, and suggests trying to build up their current weak evidence against Hauptmann. There is even a claim of a photograph of Charley's body where half the face still has flesh to prove their point against Hauptmann, and this is done over the weak evidence that it was the body of Charley.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.47.64 on Aug 6, 2008 7:31 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.47.64 on Aug 6, 2008 7:31 PM
Posted on Jun 8, 2008, 9:39 AM from IP address 99.164.39.186
The military site I got it from said Donovan was grooming him for spy work. Donovan Graduated from Columbia University in the same class as Franklin Roosevelt. He didn't start toOSS til 41, but the Naval Intelligence was operating long before during WW1. Forrestal was in Naval Intelligence. Even thogh Roosevelt did not acknowledge the OSS agency untill 1941 they had been delving into spy work long before Franlin Roosevelt was in charge as Assistant Secretary Navey 1913 to 20 when he left did so with intent to form a new intelligence unit to compare with Naval Intelligence. Keyhoe, Donovan, and Lindbergh were basicly the three colonels who started working its begginings to combat Natzie Spies.
Politicians have gangster like tactics to force government action however they please, even like we know were are being squeezed at the gas pump right now by potical control. Lindbergh like his father was against the Federal Reserve, and certain polical families still in control till this day used the kidnap to take public eye off world events, and to the doublecross of the second world war. Has any one ever found the gold Hitler stole, the answer is no, but the Last issues of the National Police Gazzette told where the gold went, but conveniently this paper was censored out of business.
Now for the kidnap reason Roosevelt and the boot leg drug clan listed in the Gemstone Theory below were opposed by Lindbergh and his father, and they also were in direct conflict with Capone. The general public was made to believe they were handling things for us with our freedoms and security of prime importance, but if it was left to them we would all be slaves, especialy if there were no gang operated unions.
Capone wouldn't allow drugs, but the new Fedral Reserve guys wanted to cash in on the popy reserves, and for that reason Capone had to go. His last effort was to claim the return of Charley, but he and his family members were facing elimination and torture by these dagerous political elements. You guys never had the opportunity to meet up with Ness's questioning tactics. I did and one of his favorite tricks was the window ledge 20 questions, and if you failed you realy lost.
Death of Forrestal, Lindbergh-Keyhoe Friend
http://Keyholepublishing.com/Death%20of%20James%20Forrestal.htm
Harold Olson Suicide Mind Control CIA.
http://www.Frankolsonproject.org/Documen....20index%20.html
http://www.Frankolsonproject.org/contents.html
If this book site does not come up Google Freedom Domain and go to Gs for Gemstone Theory.
Hard to get Books everthing from Jesus Genealogy to J.F.K.
Project Seek:Onassis, Kennedy, and the Gemstone Theory by Gerald A. Carroll
Kennedy, Roosevelt, Onassis into bootleg drugs.
http://www.freedomdomain.com/Catalog/books/catbookg.htm
Posted on May 25, 2008, 3:33 PM from IP address 76.244.147.75
Were Ellis Parker and his son really so ignorant that they thought they were above the law?
The research authors gloss over this part of the LKC - but was there more to the Parkers involvement than we've been told?
What do you think - can you share what you know or believe?
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 1:17 PM from IP address 71.38.29.213
He thought he could sweat the person he had for accomplices, andthat is a dangerous thing to do. It is obvious the acomplices were more powerfull than Paker and the Governor put together. Illegal detention usualy not handled to the extreme of
Parkers Fate, in itself proves some power was making sure he would not try again. I think the whole case needs to be re-examined, as there are too many inconsistencies that Micael an Allens sites both try to re-prove over and over. If their proof was so plain to see why do they need to keep harping the same story?
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 6:38 PM from IP address 76.253.139.81
The other group thinks swearing and insulting proves their point. They actualy felt they were in the right for insulting me over their diffference of opinion. They don't know anything about the case or forums, Didn't even know what Hunterdown was, and have not read anything on the case
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 9:57 PM from IP address 76.253.139.81
Hi Rita:
This is in response to your Anne Handwition post on LKH site. I'd like to see a synopsis of what you think happened - beginning to now w/LKC. Like - there was no kidnapping - two children involved, one Elisabeth's one Anne's - Robert Aldinger's Father somehow (say how) got CALIII - police and CAL railroaded BRH who was somehow (say how) involved w/Robert's Father - Anne sticks by CAL even though he's a Nazi because he knows some dirty little secret, etc.
There are many interesting things on this site. For instance, I wonder why the Hessingers wanted to swear RA to secrecy if DNA testing was done. Seems they think there's something to it.
I put this request because I thought you might not want to post it on other site, but that would be OK too.
Jack
Posted on Apr 16, 2008, 9:22 PM from IP address 97.114.146.14
I believe in conincidental happenings, as parapsychologist study such incidents, and Realiz my incident is the coincidence, but similar to what is implied by loose ends, affadavits, and stories from family and employees.
Gov Hoffmann had Ellerso's affadavit that Charley he thought he saw dead and bleeding on the drive with Elizabeth Raving in the background. My story is similar My Mother elizabeth knocked me into a box of broken crystal oil Lamps, and only way to remove me from the box was to cary the box to driveway and carefuly support glass away from me while pulling me out by hair and feet. You cant just grab someone who has long curved pieces of glass stuck everywhere.
When I first read the Ellerson Affadavit it was quite a surprize, but have been looking for possible more details, and asked Norris if he had found any medical records, and he replied none. That is odd not to have childhood misshap medical records, they must have been completly protected from allchildhood misshaps.
Charley gets upset when he hears such incidents that he thinks don't go along with his story, but have never denied his story, and don't see how it would interfere. First of allmine is coincidental, but if the Elleson story is true, and it does seem not to be just made up, then there is an Elizabeth baby also.
The Jones Letter states that Lindbergh and Condon removed Charley, but don't think either Hauptmann or Jones completly understood why, but that Hauptmann just participated.
Posted on Apr 17, 2008, 8:20 PM from IP address 76.244.151.119
The site has developed a complex of some sort. Some people have suggested comeing over here or theother site. Ithink it would be nice to just throw around ideas in friendly conversation like they used to. The guys got it all wrong over there we are not here to solve or prove the. case, but just theorize some parts. They have the idea their word is law others must accept
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 6:27 PM from IP address 76.253.139.81
Do you know where the other forum is, and to get there I put a button on top that takes you there. I Only Read Parts of it. The forum was not set to accept posts, and was beggining to think someone cut the wire.
Http://witt04.proboards100.com/
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 76.253.139.81 on Apr 14, 2008 8:42 PM
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 8:40 PM from IP address 76.253.139.81
I'm not sure how to get to your current active forum. Which button? Also I tried to log in and it said there was someone else named Jack - is that me? It wouldn't take my normal passwaord, but wouldn't send me mine if I forgot it.
Posted on Apr 15, 2008, 6:55 PM from IP address 71.38.29.213
Just use Jack29 or some other number, as Rick had to use Rick 62 which was his age at the time. Lila said she had problems, but this site does have a lot of advertising that throws you onto another screen, but it is free. It not realy a button it's the first sentence that says case glossary should take you to the other site.
here is the direct line to it.
http://witty04.proboards100.com/
Posted on Apr 15, 2008, 8:03 PM from IP address 76.244.144.28
The sites over here have a word censor that doesn't allow four letter words, or atleast the other one has a better one no swearing allowed, and wish Ronelle would take control of that feature. I think this one has the control and nothing on it, but the other site wouldn't even let me post Rev. Peacock and insted posted Rev. Peathingy.
Posted on Apr 15, 2008, 8:09 PM from IP address 76.244.144.28
I guess this site is not to censored, but the other one is more so. Go toforum index then try to sign in if that works it will take you to registration if not get back to me and I will try to figure it out? It censored Peacock with Peathingy what a joke?
Posted on Apr 15, 2008, 8:48 PM from IP address 76.244.144.28
I never had a chat yet. Glad you got in and it would be nice to bring some chats here. I think we should just frienly talk other theories, but noticed the other place getting violent. I Like Charley,but he may build problems by demanding his version only. Dave And Anonymouse may be one person to be avoided, but he comes back friendly as a sneak attack then jumps down onto others theories.
Posted on Apr 16, 2008, 10:15 AM from IP address 99.164.38.164
Sure - figure a time you'd like to chat and I'll try to be around, maybe others would too.
You have a wealth of information on your archives here - most of it above normal research. I don't like to see the kind of arguments the other board gets into because everybody has something to contribute or they wouldn't be there, and how hard is it to listen to a few new things.
Post that chat time.
Posted on Apr 16, 2008, 6:59 PM from IP address 97.114.146.14
I wold be nice to chat, but think the easy way might be to check the time of last post if you are near that time ask whoever it is to come overe to chat here.
Yes they don't like to hear anything but what comes out of the New Jersy Court Papers. If you say anything else they start to insult, and think thats where Dave got his insults fromThey have hidden all the information of Curtis and Condons kidnapper iinterviewson the boat, who possibly were a German Gang.
Posted on Apr 17, 2008, 7:45 PM from IP address 76.244.151.119
Yes there are some problems with this site, but it should work from the top bars chat button. You know the other site has a chat room also,but the other site needs another sign in as it is from a different company, but there is less trouble there.
Posted on Apr 17, 2008, 8:24 PM from IP address 76.244.151.119
I recommended Dena not to talk to them, as it just serves as Gratification to Dave's Ego running wild. You cannot treat inflated ego with multiple personalities he uses for defense mechanism by debating it, because he just builds his own forum characters to insult and defy you. Silence to their taunting and vile comments will lessen their collective self view of importance and diminish repeat episodes.
Posted on Apr 12, 2008, 2:44 PM from IP address 99.164.43.221
I know I haven't posted here in a while, but I wanted to clear soemthing up. The posters that have been on the Lindy Hoax board signing on as "Anonymouse" are NOT me! It's kind of pissing me off, too, because I thought that little moniker was kind of cute. Not anymore!!!
I was wondering how long those others (if it is actually more than one) would go on if no one responded to them. Do you think they might get tired of talking to themselves and go away? I'm afraid Bob might be a lost cause, but I'm not sure if Joe and Jack would go along. Any way to reach them besides that board?
It makes me sad - I've learned so much from that site over the past 5 years or so. God, I wish Ronelle would come back!
Posted on Apr 13, 2008, 11:32 AM from IP address 4.239.228.242
I didn't Think it was you, and I don't know if we can get back to normal there. There is perhaps at least one, but they are useing other peoples e-mail address to post, and they even used my name to make some posts when I was busy at school. Maybee we can get back into the other site for a while, I Like Bob and all the regulars, but don't have their e-mails, and think perhaps we should all go to the other site till the trouble maker gets tired of talking, but don't think we shold go without maintaining controlof Ronelles.
It may not work that way becaus I think Michael may actualy be behind the trouble so he can controll the forum Ronelle set up? If we left there he would just fill in with wood and handwriting evidence. The other possibility is Allen may be behind the trouble and am sure he would like to take over Ronelles Forum.
Posted on Apr 13, 2008, 4:15 PM from IP address 99.164.49.6
Try the old Site I might try and promote the old site if the nonsense is not resolved. I asked Ronelle to stop their posting, and think she should have someone to curtail such nonsense. That forum will become known as the insult forum if that keeps up.
http://witty04.proboards100.com/
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 76.244.153.240 on Apr 14, 2008 2:30 AM
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 2:28 AM from IP address 76.244.153.240
It is difficult to work with a multiple personality by internet and remote so have devised a system below.
Please make selelections Below?
Notice Leters and Numbers Change for the Same Color Make Selection of Both (ex.A.1.), With The +or- (ex.+Good or Happy,-Angy or Hatefull), The Letter or Number Preceding +or - is the Degree. Be sure to add the color?
A. Good Natured-/2.+or-/3.+or-/4.+or-/-Color,Blue
B. Conceited Peacock-/1.+or-/3.+or-/4.+or-/-Color,Green
C. Pompous Showoff-/4.+or-/1.+or-/2.+or-/-Color,Red
D. Expectant Visionary-/1.+or-/2.+or-/3.+or-/-Color,Yellow
These connections to family seemed trivial at first compared to the court casses I was faceing with family thieves. The spy connection is, and the advance stories I read from National Police Gazzette were posting pictures from my fathers photo album, and for which foreign agents came calling at my fathers business while I was present. I need to write a book about it as no one else seems to want to disclose that information. One of the most interesting is a photo on Lindbergh site captioned wrong, but being escorted in Berlin by cemetary John a connection or partner agent. They played out the kidnap story to it's fullest to gain Lindbergh access into Hitler's Trust.
I think the way Hauptmann got mixed in through off shore investments and money laudering. The Mersman Salesman looked like CJ and he sold the table to the New Jersey Furniture dealer who owed gambling debt paid to Hauptmann to be laundered off shore by his racketeer client. This was route of simple miss direction by CJ who siply gave furniture dealer gold certificates to pay off gambling debt to Hauptmann's client, but got stuck with them thinking he could safely pass them of a little at a time.
Mersman Salesman was my aunts husband,and remember when the FBI came to us searching for things he might have left with us. When they questioned my father they didn't realize he was a top agent and very adept at miss leading, he just forgot to tell them there was another house that might have the items they were looking for. The gold certificates were still behind the wall panel in the old house.
The nursery note was ersed very hastily, and the reson for the many remaining visible ink marks. There is large pools of erased ink that migrated from erased lines. He must have put the nursery not into the oven to quick dry it, but this is probably why parts of some nearly erased words left faint traces. I think this also explains the broad pen stokes in some places not yet completly dry the ink spread out as if written by a broad pen nib.
Posted on Dec 16, 2007, 2:47 PM from IP address 99.164.107.199
I mentioned before that there was spy work involved, but was an extremly complicated case with double agents, and the rason for wo future CIA directors visiting Lindy the week preceeding the kidnap story. Lindbergh met with agents on both sides in his trips to Germany. The question here is why agentsrecruited would stage the Condon and Curtis game ploy? Was there a real kidnap threat, or just a political strategy concocted by Roosevelt to keep Lindbergh out of the Presidential Race? We know that Lindbergh covert spying operations in Germany added a secret German family just recently brought to light.
This was the same period of OSS-CIA formation where we began to see a romance between gangland and covert government operation in characters like Rosner, Spitz, and Bitale. Many have theorized that Rosner had a role in the kidnap, to which he replied "He was going to vist the Kidnappers" while observed driving off from the reporter in a chauffer driven limosine he claimed supplied by the kidnappers.
Posted on Dec 15, 2007, 10:27 PM from IP address 99.164.106.87
Didn't anyone ever wonder why there was no investigation into the Mersman Table confession? A simple fact to investigate such a confession, since the furniture dealer bought it new, so either a compny employee did it as a joke or perhap one of the remaing trails would go to the furniture dealer or the salesman. I don't think we would have needed Sherlock Holmes to figure it out, but why did they hide this lead and trivialize it, when the FBI dug up a farm yard looking for gold certificates, and the bank bag which never got a mention in the original fancy box fairy tale. I know that the FBI did investigate the Mersman Salesman, but because of inter agency jealousy and Lindbergh excluding significant finds along with the bones it never reached the experts who were too hot on their novel trails to bother with details.
If you look at the reasoning behind the table confession you need accept that the person who wrote it had a story version that did not lay sole blame for Charley's dissapearance on the writer, and someone within the case inner circle shared that blame. That same person was able to trivaialize the confession to place the table within the museum lost and found intending that it never be seen.
Posted on Dec 8, 2007, 9:52 PM from IP address 76.253.135.3
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.38.240 on Dec 6, 2007 6:59 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.46.14 on Dec 5, 2007 1:36 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.46.14 on Dec 5, 2007 1:31 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 99.164.46.14 on Dec 5, 2007 1:13 PM
Posted on Dec 5, 2007, 1:04 PM from IP address 99.164.46.14
The last post I did here on Dracula inspired me to do some late hour researching on the subject. Attending school at this huge mountain top campus I began researching their rare books for history of the subject. In one dust covered book I found neglected, because it had fallen behind the shelf, was a huge volume on ancient cults I discovered one obscure passage on the order of Drac. On page 6,989 I found a reference to Drac Territory with a footnote to page 3,648, must have missed it when I had eye lids tapped open, explaining Drac Territory to a location in Transylvania, and I quikly made flight carriage arrangements to the location.
After a late hour arrival and a long carriage ride from the airport you could see the full moon between the mountain tops, and of course the carriage driver wanted extra payment to feed the six panting horses it took to climb the steep access. The very unfriendly butler who answered the bell at first said go away, but after much explanation was allowed to talk to a representative of the count who owned the castle, but was told the count was away. The next day I was given a tour of the castle including the old dungeons, which brought back memories of my childhood home, but was asked by the representative if I would return some artifacts on my return trip home.
The large oblong box was to be delivered to my surprise to what at first seemed an abandoned property near the campus, but a very unfriendy person resembling the castle butler accepted the large wooden box. Some days later, after researching late, leaving the campus library as the bell tower struck midnight, I cought a glimpse of a large winged figure aided by the full moon near the bell tower, and on reaching my car found the note, Drac is Back. I hurried to the all night supermarket and bought up their entire stock of linked garlic and placed them at all my doors and windows. As this is a most recent event I must return to the rare book page 6,990 to continue my research on the subject.
The Lindbergh Case needs much research on Dracula, since the story given to police could only have been achieved by a Dracula like figure, who on entering a second floor window without disturbing the window cabinet ornamental decor.
Happy Halloween
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 76.253.136.230 on Oct 23, 2007 5:36 PM
Posted on Oct 23, 2007, 5:35 PM from IP address 76.253.136.230
The last post I did here on Dracula inspired me to do some late hour researching on the subject. Attending school at this huge mountain top campus I began researching their rare books for history of the subject. In one dust covered book I found neglected, because it had fallen behind the shelf, was a huge volume on ancient cults I discovered one obscure passage on the order of Drac. On page 6,989 I found a reference to Drac Territory with a footnote to page 3,648, must have missed it when I had eye lids tapped open, explaining Drac Territory to a location in Transylvania, and I quikly made flight carriage arrangements to the location.
After a late hour arrival and a long carriage ride from the airport you could see the full moon between the mountain tops, and of course the carriage driver wanted extra payment to feed the six panting horses it took to climb the steep access. The very unfriendly butler who answered the bell at first said go away, but after much explanation was allowed to talk to a representative of the count who owned the castle, but was told the count was away. The next day I was given a tour of the castle including the old dungeons, which brought back memories of my childhood home, but was asked by the representative if I would return some artifacts on my return trip home.
The large oblong box was to be delivered to my surprise to what at first seemed an abandoned property near the campus, but a very unfriendy person resembling the castle butler accepted the large wooden box. Some days later, after researching late, leaving the campus library as the bell tower struck midnight, I cought a glimpse of a large winged figure aided by the full moon near the bell tower, and on reaching my car found the note, Drac is Back. I hurried to the all night supermarket and bought up their entire stock of linked garlic and placed them at all my doors and windows. As this is a most recent event I must return to the rare book page 6,990 to continue my research on the subject.
Happy Halloween
Posted on Oct 20, 2007, 10:48 AM from IP address 99.164.46.160
Last Eye Witness to Kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Junior
by
(no login)
Benny Altis has an interesting story to tell of his account of the kidnapping of Charles lindbergh Junior. I think his story needs to be heard as much of it takes place in logical location with people who were actualy employed at the estate. I think it especialy suited for the location in part occurs in St Louis a gngland stronghold, from which racketeer lawyers sued the National Police Gazzette to make them withdraw stories of Lindbergh Case, and the case connection to possible retribution over Senator Lindbergh's opposition to the federal reserve. We have all read the Curtis and Condon claims of a boat, which may have been manned by foreign agents on orders from main Federal Reserve backers we know to be Morgan, Rothchild, and others to stop Lindbergh posiible political aspirations against their plan for world domination.
Posted on Oct 9, 2007, 7:34 PM from IP address 76.253.137.64
Many people that come to these sites have Lindy Memorabilia, but don't claim to having absolute proof of what happenedregarding the kidnap alibi. Lindbergh was the main suspect then, and is even more so now with what is known statisticly about parents part in child injury or death cases.
The FBI records show missing $30,000.00 in Gold Certificate, but others with bubble gum cards might argue they have absolute proof all the money is accounted for. Since the prime suspect Lindbergh was alowed to take charge of the investigation, all evidence for trial and in police custody was tainted by missleading fabricated nonsense like cemetary John information. CJ even appears to be geared as a Fu Man Chu radio thriller scripted complete with shadowy figures who dissapear into the shadows of the cemetary, how quaint? Did this CJ come from the pen of the radio script writers of the day?
By the way does anyone have some of the Lindy Cards?
Posted on Sep 29, 2007, 9:34 AM from IP address 69.208.13.172
Did someone in politics hire a hit man to silence Lindbergh's Political Aspirations if the body found was Lindbergh's Son? I say if, because if his silence was the motive the perpetrators would need to hold his son permanently to silence his political aspirations. There is also Hauptmann's peculiar condemned man photgraphic archtypical appearance of a villian and refusal to save himself, and the only possible reasoning for that would be that he knew political power that hired him, and if he was guilty would silence him either way from within the justice system?
Lindbergh's Father opposed Roosevelt's on the Federal reserve issue, and later helped to expose Teapot Dome perhaps resposible for another president's suspicious death. If Lindbergh had been percieved as a political opponent for presidentcy , then this would have been a strong motive to hold his son permanently, and the only logical reason for him to leave the country for his childrens safty.
Everyone has since been made to believe what no one believed back then, as most news print spoke or gosspeed of other causes for the kidnap story. The reality is Hauptmann had no motive by itself, and if he did participate he new the polical machine that hired him meant his doom regardless of case outcome. The only motive that could have been strong enough to create such a kidnap with built in fall guy was the Lindbergh anti-Federal Reserve and his assistance in exposure of the Teapot Dome, and by the way Means does fit into that motive
We know the Rice note mentions a Roosevelt, and that an Attorney General named Rice confiscated all copies of Senator Lindbergh's book and printing plates against the Federal Reserve that Roosevelt and others were planning in order to launder international illegal arms sales to warring nations.
Now here comes sad sack Hauptmann, and someone employs him to odd or illegal job at the Lindbergh home and pays him off with kidnap money, but where is the motive? Do you believe that he had some incredibly fictitious desire to just kidnap Lindbergh's son for some delusion, but people who have delusions of Granduer do not do things to self destruct.
Posted on Sep 29, 2007, 9:32 AM from IP address 69.208.13.172
IN social psychology group think is the term for what is occurring here like in most forums. There is a tendency for all group members to think alike and suppress dissent. There is also a high degree of group polarization also for the group to take more extreme positions than those of individuals. This can also be likened to two grumpy old men sitting across from each other at the club, where one says to the other, I've said it all and I'm not going to say another word.
It seems as though every time someone gets close to legitimate solutions to why the case events seem so unbelievable because of it's unorthodox handling by police and court, the grumpy old men jump in to say, since I've said it all I'm not going to say another word.
It is obvious from the conflicting stories made up by the case participants that something other than a kidnap happened, and even their timing conflicts with the possibility of a kidnap on the day that is claimed. Could it be that the employees thought they had just misplaced Charley, since they had frequently moved Charley to different locations while the parents were in the air, or did Charley really disappear this time, and not just another kidnap practical joke by Lindbergh.
Posted on Sep 16, 2007, 6:15 PM from IP address 76.211.34.72
There were no fingerprints, and a baby crib with a blanket neatly pinned to the mattress, commonly done for storage when not planned for use. The ransom note Lindbergh held sealed for two hours was not similar to the following ransom letters, because it was done without the refinements, done unconsciously by a second party. The ransom letter nearly perfectly matches the handwriting of Anne, and Gov Hoffmann started an investigationafter recieving affadavits from employees telling a different story of Charleys dissapearance.
Posted on Aug 30, 2007, 11:46 PM from IP address 69.208.12.113
The ransom note details money denominations, but seems to neglect Charley in-the normal way a kidnapper would deal with the parents, and their love for Charley. The note seems to write off Charley as a predicament rather than a loved child exchanged for money. The note not only is written by English thinking person trying to mimic German words, but gives the impression of being written by a household member trying to fake a reasonable kidnap letter, but without thinking it out properly like demands made by a real kidnapper, and as being written in third person regarding Charley.
The ladder condition and missing employee fingerprints in the nursery tell of the disappearance happening on another day .
Posted on Aug 25, 2007, 10:59 PM from IP address 76.211.21.255
I'll be able to give information from the Borowitz Collection on the Lindbergh Case in the future. Here are just a few hurried bits from tens of thousands news clippings and photographs.
Inspector Cody "Ater meetings with Lindbergh's Case will be solved soon".
Harry Fleisher after apprehesion in Mexico Confesses Lindbergh Kidnap, and the connection to Purple Gang, but after Mexican authorities deny the claim
Photgraph of confrontational picture Lindbergh and Hauptmann together.
Posted on Jun 27, 2007, 6:05 PM from IP address 66.202.108.245
I made refence to internet sceance even on my older site for a good reason. In psychology study you are taught ideas and memory sometimes converge on a solution to the problem. We have a diverse group, but the ideas have converged closely with memories brought out by persons concerned for different reasons, and that is very much like procedure in a sceance.
Robert has memories that can sometime match with other situations within the case that he might not even completly understand yet, but that is the way memories work, little bits and pieces that fit a larger picture.
You may realize that there were other forces at work in the Lindbergh Case, resulting from Lindbergh's association with Rosner, and the Donovan-Keyhoe OSS-CIA connection, and that is where my contribution for this dicussion comes from. Most people try to glorify the Lindbergh Case Myth, but I know different, as my uncle was the Mersman Salesman that sold Weizman the confession table, which he owed favor to Rosner in return for a gambling debt.
Posted on Jun 12, 2007, 1:44 PM from IP address 67.39.192.119
Everyone seems to get different opinions about Condon, and for the simple reason Wilentz had lied about the case, wich would have caused him major legal embarrasment without placeing the embarrasment role onto Condon. He made Condon change his story about Hauptmann being CJ, and mocked the boat story which was true, and this together with his threat to Samuelson led to a complete breakdown in investigation of what realy took place.
Posted on Jun 12, 2007, 1:16 PM from IP address 67.39.192.119
The year before the alleged story of the kidnap there were 400 kidnaps mostly attributed to the kidnap profesionals of the Purple Gang. The govenment was in a situation where gangland had taken over political families as a result and used the Lindbergh Case as Roosevelt had demonstrated to make it a federal crime. The Lindbergh Case was high profile enough to carry public sentiment against the bootleggers to end their era of crime.
We know that Bette Gow was questioned over possible association with the Purple Gang, but we don't have real knowledge of how or why Hauptmann had only $14,000.00 in gold certificates? This raises the question who was given the remaining $30,000.00 gold certificates completing the shell game used to with the Samuelson box to create the over dramatic cemetary story with CJ. Would any person that had the gold certificates realy tell you where he had them, but the keystone cops liked that fairy tale very much, as it was intended to create a dead end to the remainder of the gold certificates
The furniture dealer that had sold the Mersman Ransom Table Confession new CJ, and later had business dealings with his associates resulting from his gambling debts to them. This places the case back into Purple Gang Territory. This had caused the FBI to rethink some case details in the 50's double checking the Mersman Salesman. It appears that the VD'rs have overrun the case neglecting important issues in favor of their wood evidence in spite of the fact it lead to a nursery room not used that day.
Posted on Jun 11, 2007, 6:05 PM from IP address 66.213.21.18
We know that Lindbergh was unusaly saditic with his pranks that were at times life threatening. We know that Dwight Morrow senior warned not to leave Elizabeth alone with Charley. Then there were the affadivaits that Governor Hoffmann had from Morrow and Lindbergh employees that Charley had an accident that the affadavits were made to dissapear by the local keystone cops.
We know also that there wer no fingerprints from the nursery the night of the alleged kidnap, and that the ladder would not have held under average persons weight. This brings up the question did employees and Anne use rubber gloves to check on Charley that night, or was the kidnap just a story to cover the accident of Charley reported by affadvit to Hoffman?
Posted on May 20, 2007, 9:01 PM from IP address 69.215.235.87
All through the case we are asked to believe that something happened from a distance other than what we know that family is the major cause of child fatality or dissapearance. There is a central make believe directing the case away from Hopewell where the body is found. Elaborate scripts are given to almost make believe atage characters like CJ who Condon at one point describes like a shadowy fiction character.
Rosner hired gang members to stage an event scenario drawing attention away from Hopewell long enough to set up an alternative scapegoat, to which Hauptmann fit the bill. I could explain what happened in detail, but will wait to see if you realy have the supporting details needed to bring the case to a realistic solution?
Posted on May 7, 2007, 9:41 PM from IP address 65.43.186.76
Saturday, June 17, 2006 - Juneteenth 2000 (J2K) Our seventh "Honoring Our Heroes and Sheroes Luncheon" will be held at Maxine2's, Warren St., Trenton, NJ, from noon to 1:30 PM. Honorees are Councilperson-at-Large Cordelia Staton, the founders of the Afrikan Peoples Action School, and Mrs. Elizabeth Ragsdale, whose father, William James Allen, found the Lindbergh baby.(Because we have limited seating,we ask that you call to reserve a seat for the luncheon. 609 599 3653 for information.)A Family Day of Celebration will be held at Cadwalader Park, Parkside Ave., Trenton, from 2 to 7 PM. The 6th Regiment US Colored Troops Re-enactors will be with us again.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 68.255.253.12 on May 6, 2007 10:15 PM
Posted on May 6, 2007, 9:24 PM from IP address 209.139.109.222
Hi Sue, Like all other parts of the Lindbergh Case, we are being asked to believe a kidnapper wood risk driving through the countryside risking speed traps to drop of a childs dead body. This is hard to believe like everthing else in this case, and truck drivers going deep into overgrowth to relive themself knowing the pitfalls of poison ivy is another tall tale.
This is what I mean about people bending logical truth to justify what has already been said for forum acceptance.
Posted on May 6, 2007, 10:31 PM from IP address 68.255.253.12
Allen said to those who questioned his going so far into the woods that they didn't know what it was like for a black man to be caught urinating in public.
Posted on Apr 14, 2008, 7:54 PM from IP address 71.38.29.213
I know most other people come to these sites without a clue then reinforse what others have written. I have tried to correct them about percentage of errors of memedicine and science in general being a high percentage, but that didn't sink in. I speak from experience on this as Ihave numerous credits in physics, medicine, psychology, electronics, to the extent where I have personaly encountered degrees wearing idiots in school.
My father and brother became extremely wealthy selling the gold certificates that everyone else seems to be positive is burried at the summit, but they know because they believe in Lindy's fairy tale. You might ask did the verdict people realy read the family accounts of the kidnap, but then the verdict people didn't know anyone actualy involved in the case, but they are experts, sort of?
I also used to hear of the case first hand, but knew these >experts to be vehement in their convictions, and realized they would promote >half truths to counter what I knew from first hand encounter of people in the case.
It was not a kidnap, but a feeble attempt at that to cover an accident that Anne tried to explain in the first nursey note >that Lindbergh found, erased part of and wrote over to fool Anne insrting it back into the envelope and sealing it. The Salutation (Dear Sir) is Anne's, the rest is written over erased words, but I was able to bring out photographicly some of the erased writing, which is also Anne's writing.
Anne continualy refered to Charley's dissapearance as an accident, and later books by Berg and other have reported on Lindbergh's control of Anne by reporting that she would go to her room locking herself in.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 65.43.186.76 on May 4, 2007 6:10 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 65.43.186.76 on May 4, 2007 6:06 PM
Posted on May 4, 2007, 6:02 PM from IP address 65.43.186.76
Hi Mairi, I learned a great deal about psychology, and see examples in various forums where people reject reality for alternative fanciful beliefs (fairy tales). The story of the kidnap is riddled with stories adjusted to prove only one point, and crime analysis in real crime does not work that way. Inthis kidnap most noticiceable is Lindbergh being allowed to call in racketeer figures, for what purpose you might ask, possibly to cover any hint of his guilt with an alternative alibi?
If you look at the photo on Ronnelle's of the Dear Sir in the nursery note you can see it is identical to the manner Anne used in her letters, but around the letter body you can see blue residue from the letter body being completly erased? Lindberg was clever in that after finding Anne's note he quickly erased it but left her salutation to show her he was putting her note into an envelope and sealing it for the police, as he knew this two hour ordeal waiting for the fingerprint team would wear on Anne's intent to reveal facts, by pressuring her over how guilt can be misconstrued from her letter in two hours.
Others have suggested that the writing I uncovered photographicly was some kind of lens error, double print, or digital noise, but think not, because The underwriting appears to be the same handwriting and appears to be written along similar context. According to Berg's Book there was much unhappiness with Anne over Lindbergh, and may have been directly related to Lindbergh's ultimate prank.
Posted on May 6, 2007, 10:14 PM from IP address 68.255.253.12
If you check on Anne's handwriting samples you can see the similarity to the ransom note salutation. Every one of the hanwriting sleuths have claimed the difference to things like writing with the opposite hand, but not so it is definatly Anne's. The picture I took brought out the writing that was erased, during while Lindbergh held it two hours, and if you look closely at my pictures you can see writing under the opening salutation the words (wife of) again in Anne's handwriting. This is why the note was not seen by the first detectives, as Lindbergh found it and erased everything but the salutation and resealed it showing Anne that he put her note back into the envelope.
You can understand the psychological effect that might have her waiting for her explanation note to be handed over to police in two hours. This had the effect of near physical torture only psychologicly, but was by this means he dissuaded Anne from explaining the true cause of Charley dissapearing.
My discovery is proof positive not conjecture, that the original note was erased by Lindbergh and written over by perhaps command from Lindbergh. You only have to compare Anne's writing to the salutation of the nursey note listed below, then take a look at the handwriting I uncovered from the nursery note to see the proof positive?
Great Post> I wonder why these guys keep coming up with information nobody else has 30-40 years later? The implication with such stashed evidence by detective is did they selectivly hide more evidence that might have cleared Hauptmann? I think evry time hidden evidence comes out from lawmen it makes Hauptmann seem less guilty.
Posted on Apr 21, 2007, 10:59 PM from IP address 75.33.81.52
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
Story last updated at 1:57 am on 4/18/2007
On This Date
75 YEARS AGO
Monday, April 18, 1932
The Lindbergh kidnapping case switches its focus to the Midwest. A mysterious call received at the Toledo Times came from a man named Patterson who said the baby is in Detroit and would be returned in a week because the kidnappers had a falling out.
Posted on Apr 19, 2007, 10:16 AM from IP address 209.139.109.229
The Detroit Purple Gang had kidnapped from rich and polital families in order to gain power, therewas always that fear in the local leaders that their family might be next. Bette Gow may have a connection to the the kidnap, but perhaps without knowledge of her connection intention.
Posted on Apr 20, 2007, 12:57 AM from IP address 75.33.81.52
Some persons participate in the kidnap case just to perpetuate the story without reason. Back then with no computer it would have taken considerable time to record all the thousands of gold certificates, but even though I don't have the exact time period it was at least a week. Rick is correct in calling the story a fairy tail, as just consider ones son just kidnapped and the father is in lengthy debate over how fancy a box should be made to house the ransom. Every aspect of the story wreaks from incongrueous stories, from the kidnap nursery with no employee fingerprints, to the hour long conversation with cemetary John. Nothing in this story is verifiable, as the BOI grandchild FBI was later looking for the money bag used in transfering the gold certificates, whcih also was miss-placed. If even the FBI built a replica ladder over their dissbelief that also broke, how can we make a story believable from soo much doubt.
Posted on Apr 14, 2007, 9:17 PM from IP address 75.33.81.52
Your curiosity about the missing ransom box is interesting, but have you considered the fact that all people do not know all things.
The box seems to originate with a message to Condon and then it disappears never to return. Where oh where has the ransom box gone, Oh where oh where can it be.
Well if the FBI had the box and checked it for clues, we might learn a lot. If the NJSP had the box, it would most likely disappear.
Lets use what information we have about the box to see if any reasonable conclusion can be reached. Basically we are told that the box dimensions are 7x14x7 inches. Why so? Are the dimensions connected to a place where the box has to pass through, or perhaps it is related to a void the box would fill? First thought is that the box would fit nicely into the area occupied by an ordinary concrete block. Another area the box could occupy would be the flare holder on a truck. Trucks had a box attached to the frame that held two kerosene flares to be used in the event of a breakdown. The flares measured 7x7x6.5 Inches.
Brings up the question, who might be connected to concrete block use?
As for the truck issue, Fred Aldinger was a truck driver with a regular route from New York to Chicago. By law Freds truck must carry road flares.
Scaduto wrote that the first ransom bills were passed at shops along the Cherry Valley route to Chicago.
Something to think about, that is not the same old same old.
Posted on Apr 14, 2007, 11:09 PM from IP address 24.110.167.55
Hi Bob/ you are right to point out that the 5-ply wooden ransom box proves beyond a shadow of any doubt that Condon is a loose cannon and a spinning wingnut. It also removes any possible semblence of a serious ransom payment. If there was a CJ, he and gang ask for a money PACKET (7x7x14inches?) NOT any mahogany BOX> Condon claims he will trace the wooden box to CJs mantel and then have him "caught red handed"? Trouble is, the money was tossed over the hedge or fence at St. Raymonds (according to Gaston Means) and Condon threw the 4 day-delay wooden box into the bushes to retrieve later himself? As a momento to his own Delusions of Grandeur?
Posted on Apr 15, 2007, 1:16 PM from IP address 128.104.76.237
The wooden box story is an incredible story of an unconcerned parent fiddling for a fisch story to cover up something else. When I discovered the gold certificates behind a wall panel I found how to open I took one to say I found it, as there were soo many I thought no one would mind. When I showed them the gold certificate I claimed to find they made it hard for me to sit down for a week. They started selling the gold certificates in the late sixties in echange for gold through private collectors. Robert said Fred had a Chicago truck route, and the story may connect in some way, as my uncle had enforcing power on bootleg trucking there.
Posted on Apr 16, 2007, 1:29 AM from IP address 75.33.81.52
If Fred hauled bootleg he had to come in contact with my Uncle who lived at the Drake Hotel in Chicago, as he was connected to Detroit and Chicago overseer of bootleg commerce you might say. The gold certificates were safely hidden until the late sixties when they were traded for real gold.
I like to hear from people who have such information, as what we are told by the Lindberg story tellers doesn't make sense, and believe they contrived it so in order to make the case un-solveable. If we don't listen to the story tellers the case events may actualy fit together. The gold certifices, if your story matches mine, may have been traded for a load of whiskey.
My husbands father came from Sicily with Frank Nitti on same ship.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 75.33.81.52 on Apr 16, 2007 1:58 AM
Posted on Apr 16, 2007, 1:10 AM from IP address 75.33.81.52
One big issue with the case is the Mersman table evidence, as it gives an overall case impression that a concerned party to the kidnap story was trying to cover a big error in planning the missing $30,000.00 in gold certificates by saying it's buried. A very common late excuse for an overlooked detail, but one that also casts a shadow on the basic kidnap story, as they forgot there might be a question about such a large sum of money vaporizing.
This happens often in alibi's where they forgot one little detail that far outweighs the story and need an after event to correct like the Mersman table. The issue in this situation is that it does appear to be telling a story to reinforce the kidnap by giving an impossible to find money location that if the kidnap was true, would have been in Hauptmann's possession? Why was there even a fancy box made to hold the ransom money in the first place, as this makes the story sound like Pinocchio wrote the story to begin with?
Most of these missing gold certificates have been traded for gold to South AFrican and Canadian Collectors in exchange for gold by the real group that held Charley not Hauptmann. It is amazing that Wilentz asked where he hid the certificates, but know the Mersman table debunks this Wilentz claim against Hauptmann.
Since my posting of the true method of gold certificate disposal I recieveed 165 viewings from South Africa in one week , a priciple market for the gold certificate buyers indicateing concern from the large number of buyers there over possible exposure. Since it was my family that sold them the certificates that would seem likely.
I'm amazed at how many viewed in such a short time. I think the gold certificate buyers don't want to get into any legal conflict over how they were purchased. Getting odd e-mail, one in particular (e-mail-- Sold to Paradisians, may they be cursed by it), no they are all dead, the money gained from the gold certificates didn't help them, but the circumstances around their deaths suggested foul play. They used to travel a lot to Europe and Bahamas, and suspect this method for reaching buyers. I saw the gold certificates once only, as they were well hidden, but learned a lesson not forgotten to never look for them again.
Posted on Apr 10, 2007, 11:15 PM from IP address 65.43.220.127
For a subsequent opinion re "No Hard and Fast Rule", on the Los Angeles Times contempt conviction, after its affirmance by the California Supreme Court, before that opinion was reversed by the United States Supreme Court in an opinion delivered by Justice Black, issued December 8, 1941, see "Contempt", February 4, 1940. (The Hauptmann trial to which incidental reference is made in the piece is of course that of Bruno, the alleged, convicted and executed Lindbergh child kidnaper of 1932. Grave concerns have often been raised as to the reality of his guilt and whether or not the extant fiery vigilante mise en scène surrounding his trial, as fanned by the yellow papers, together with his being German, did not fuel his being tried and convicted long before the twelve sat in deliberation--chief evidence against him having been unreliable eyewitnesses to his having been in the vicinity of the Lindbergh home, a ransom note of his putative but questionable authorship, and his having in his possession some of the alleged ransom money and a hand-crafted wooden ladder used to grab the baby from its second floor room; but ladders are ladders and wood is wood, of a pretty common variety, one would naturally assume; and, speaking of third degree tactics, later accounts suggested the planting of the bulk of the physical evidence and beating of Hauptmann to draw a confession. In any event, he died ignominiously in 1936, proclaiming his innocence to the end, in the midst of a societal circus in Boss Hague's New Jersey.)
That's about all we can say 'bout all that.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 65.48.39.162 on Apr 7, 2007 9:12 PM
Posted on Apr 7, 2007, 6:23 PM from IP address 209.139.108.41
It is interesting that many lawyers and judges dissagree with Hauptmann's guilt. There is also much dissagreement on the Family stories , how could Anne and Charles be at the same place and not agree on hearing the box falling noise? Another issue I find interesting and need of more research is that many of major names in the case were on opposite sides regarding Fedral Reserve, confiscating Lindbergh's Fathers books, and the Teapot Dome Scandel. Could it be that the kidnap was of a politcal revenge nature instesd only made to look as if for money?
Posted on Apr 8, 2007, 10:40 PM from IP address 65.43.220.254
Evidence that Charles Jr. was kidnapped and dead had been deliberatly rigged, but for what possible reason? Unexplained missing ransom money, and Condon, Lindberghs leaving country to avoid questioning upon Governor Hoffmann's reinvestigation of the case. The rapid examination and cremation of a body the childs doctor refused to identify can lead to no other conclusion, but that Charles Jr. may still be alive.
If any one has information to add to this possibility please give your opinion? It may be your information that locates Charles Jr, or even solves the case.
Posted on Apr 6, 2007, 10:52 PM from IP address 65.43.223.211
One big issue with the case is the Mersman table evidence, as it gives an overall case impression that a concerned party to the kidnap story was trying to cover a big error in planning the missing $30,000.00 in gold certificates by saying it's buried. A very common late excuse for an overlooked detail, but one that also casts a shadow on the basic kidnap story, as they forgot there might be a question about such a large sum of money vaporizing.
This happens often in alibi's where they forgot one little detail that far outweighs the story and need an after event to correct like the Mersman table. The issue in this situation is that it does appear to be telling a story to reinforce the kidnap by giving an impossible to find money location that if the kidnap was true, would have been in Hauptmann's possession? Why was there even a fancy box made to hold the ransom money in the first place, as this makes the story sound like Pinocchio wrote the story to begin with?
Most of these missing gold certificates have been traded for gold to South AFrican and Canadian Collectors in exchange for gold by the real group that held Charley not Hauptmann. It is amazing that Wilentz asked where he hid the certificates, but know the Mersman table debunks this Wilentz claim against Hauptmann.
Posted on Mar 30, 2007, 9:35 PM from IP address 68.255.228.160
I seem to have ruffled some South African Feathers over my posting about some gold certificates being sold to South African collectors. Within a week after posting gold certificates being sold to collectors there one of my sites received 165 views from South Africa, could they be fearing exposure for some reason? I think it takes inside information to solve a case not so much theory, because theory can lead far astray.
Posted on Apr 1, 2007, 9:49 PM from IP address 69.217.91.228
I think the gold certificate buyers don't want to get into any legal conflict over how they were purchased. Getting odd e-mail, one in particular (e-mail-- Sold to Paradisians, may they be cursed by it), no they are all dead, the money gained from the gold certificates didn't help them, but the circumstances around their deaths suggested foul play. They used to travel a lot to Europe and Bahamas, and suspect this method for reaching buyers. I saw the gold certificates once only, as they were well hidden, but learned a lesson not forgotten to never look for them again.
Posted on Apr 3, 2007, 8:04 PM from IP address 69.214.138.28
Others and myself included have theorized that the nursery run by Elizabeth or Constance may have included other illigitimate Lindbergh children making up a good percentage of the nursery. The candy store that Cerrita and Violet and other staff members frequented was a source of information for Cerritta and Casey that fueled much of the gossip attributing Housing Morrow Sr. and Jr. and Lindbergh extra children. There is a possibility of other children by different mothers not used in DNA comparisons to further miss lead the public. More than either might be more accurate, as we know there are several more in Germany.
My contention here is that this was the motive behind all the children dissapearance, in order to limit the estate from being divided into small shares.
Posted on Mar 30, 2007, 9:28 PM from IP address 68.255.228.160
Bruno Richard Hauptmann's son Manfred was left $500 by an 85-year-old New Jersey spinster who didn't know him but pitied him for being "handicapped" and wanted to help him in "his unequal struggle for existence." The twelve-year-old son of the Lindbergh kidnapper was last in the public eye in 1940, when he got $15,000 in Rochester, N.Y. for accident injuries. His benefactress also left $3,000 "for the care and protection of cats."
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 68.255.186.240 on Mar 29, 2007 12:13 PM
Posted on Mar 27, 2007, 2:09 AM from IP address 209.139.109.53
The is no real justice from our judicial system, and have marveled how they change facts by neglecting issues, and have your lawyer back door agreements with the opposition for a fee.
Posted on Mar 29, 2007, 12:18 PM from IP address 68.255.186.240
The discovery of two letters in the Utica Post Office addressed to Col. Charles Lindbergh and advising him to leave $50,000 in small bills in Hinckley sends state troopers on the trail of the latest clue in the kidnapping mystery. Lindbergh's infant son, Charles Jr., was kidnapped last month in New Jersey and police continue to search for him and the kidnappers.
The second letter in Utica contains the printed message — "Baby Is Safe" — and then repeats the $50,000 demand and where in Hinckley the money should be left.
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 68.255.250.102 on Mar 24, 2007 8:27 PM
Posted on Mar 24, 2007, 3:52 PM from IP address 209.139.108.168
The discovery of two letters in the Utica Post Office addressed to Col. Charles Lindbergh and advising him to leave $50,000 in small bills in Hinckley sends state troopers on the trail of the latest clue in the kidnapping mystery. Lindbergh's infant son, Charles Jr., was kidnapped last month in New Jersey and police continue to search for him and the kidnappers.
The second letter in Utica contains the printed message — "Baby Is Safe" — and then repeats the $50,000 demand and where in Hinckley the money should be left.
Posted on Mar 25, 2007, 9:04 AM from IP address 209.139.108.125
I read somewhere he at first said it was not Hauptmann who was also a customer, but two well dressed men and well dressed woman. He was not allowed to testify because of his contrary to prosecution story, and think the newspaper aricle was biased against him.
Posted on Mar 20, 2007, 5:30 PM from IP address 68.76.108.246
Hi Sue. I will be going to school a lot, and have been, but believe you and others like Rick and Mairi hold the site together. I should ask you if you like to be an administrator in case I get bogged down in school? I opened the site for moderators which was closed before, all you need to do is sign in as I put your name there . Let me know if it works?
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 65.43.221.64 on Mar 21, 2007 11:15 AM
Posted on Mar 21, 2007, 11:03 AM from IP address 65.43.221.64
In calculated error or by chance, the truth about Charlie’s disappearance slips out, but if you are so duped by the mountain of lies contained in the official Lindbergh hoax there is little chance of said truth being recognized. Another source of truth is found in a partial or sugar coated truth given to gain acceptance of hard to swallow lies.
So it seems to me that the Jones letter is for the most part is a truthful recollection of things that Hauptmann said. Hauptmann was too informed of what happened at Highfields on the night Charlie disappeared, however I find his statement that he was the one who took Charlie to be highly suspect. Fred Aldinger and his wife were given Charlie as a replacement child for Bobby Aldinger who may have died by accident in the hands of Carrel and Lindbergh at Rockefeller Center.
Consider two facts; the corpse of Bobby was wearing the shirt made by Betty Gow. Face the facts, the corpse was not Charlie. Fred Aldinger was given the name Cemetery John by Condon, and Fred Aldinger is the one who took control of Charlie from 1932 to 1944, that is less 5 years in the Home for Friendless Children, and another 5 years in other secured facilities.
You can call it a safe bet that I am keeping a close watch on the antics going on in the Anna Nicole DNA testing hassle. It seems that there might be a court order given to force a DNA test to prove paternity.
Posted on Mar 15, 2007, 4:17 AM from IP address 24.110.167.220
I'm still baffled how the court made every belive there was a real kidnap with no fingerprint, didn't the employees come in to see Charley that night? I think most people accept was is told them by the court, even when overwhelming evidence points in a different direction.
I think in order for any serious case agaist the State of New Jersey (Hauptmann Case), and claimant against the estate (Charles Jr.), needs to be a combined case, and the case looses ground seperatly, because it needs to be proved Charley is not dead at the same time Hauptmann is at least not guilty of kidnap. Hauptmann's Wife lost because there is statute limitation on kidnap, but if Charley is alive, Hauptmann can't be guilty of murder and Lindbergh lied to cover something other than kidnap, both cases need each other.
Posted on Mar 15, 2007, 9:46 PM from IP address 69.215.1.82
Why did they not look for Charlie's fingerprints at Engelwood? Was Charlie's fingerprints and all others removed from the nursery at Engelwood? Were Charlie's abductor's fingerprints ever looked for on the Boad Nelly note? Why not?
Posted on Mar 18, 2007, 10:18 AM from IP address 24.110.167.220
Good point the investigation seems they did not even try. the Rice and Jones letters were either hidden or rejected, and I understand now that even employees had written notes to the governor contradicting their kidnap story. Why did they ignore all the overwhelming evidence to contradict their fairy tale story, as you can't operate a nursery without fingerprints.
Posted on Mar 18, 2007, 10:21 PM from IP address 69.213.152.54
It might be instructive to profile the writer of the last ransom note written in 5-10 minutes at St. Raymonds Cemetary. If you arnt suspicious about "B oad" written 4 times? How about the geographic location: "between Horsehead Beach and Gays Head"? This is pretty specific but contains knowledge outside the pervue of most carpenters in the Bronx? Horseneck Beach is on the mainland of Massachusettes but Gay Head is off the tip of Martha's Vineyard? Who would know this but a Scandanavian sailor or yachtsman? Didnt Anne and Cal honeymoon in secret at Woods Hole right off Elizabeth Islands? Isnt this another example of CJ being overly clever?
The Riice and Jones letters fit perfectly, as it seems Means and Condon were linked, and Condon was either talking to himself or his boxer buddy. If meas knew of the Lindbergh cover for Elizabeth, he would have set up a blackmail system to drain Lindeberh, and is probably why Schwartzkopf and others helped put Means away permanently. Michael tells me there are letters confirming the Elizabeth part in Charley dissapearance, but the Ellerson affadavit is missing, an indication police help in clearing the trail.
Posted on Mar 12, 2007, 10:57 PM from IP address 68.255.174.125
Hoffmans entire re-investigation team, to include Dr. Erasmus Hudson, Ellis Parker, Casimir Palmer, Atty Robert W. HIcks, interviews with Samuelsohn, etc never draws any airtight conclusions or names alternate suspects? Condon runs from all of them which would support the Jones letter.
They seem to settle for only one conclusion: the baby on Mt. Rose Road is not proved Charlie Jr? As does Theon Wright and others after years of investigation? Same goes for Al Dunlap. Wright choses HRO for Charlie Jr and Hoffman chooses Kenneth Kerwin? Its an odd approach to determining the guilty party?
Would everyone continue to give Dwight or Elizabeth a free ride or pass even years after she and BRH are dead? Doubtful?
Posted on Mar 13, 2007, 6:32 AM from IP address 128.104.48.55
It sounds strange, but I don't think the Governor Hoffmann would stick his neck out over not having enough evidence. If even other employees had written the governor about the Elizabeth resposibility, it would seem reasonable that the no fingerprint kidnap nursery would be rejected for a more realistic cause accident or not like Elizabeth.
Posted on Mar 13, 2007, 9:22 PM from IP address 68.255.248.110
I found that Amazon. combooks on Parker Lindbergh had a copy with the title The Story of the Lindbergh Case date 1961, but was not in stock. The listing is number 271 if their listing does not recur for other titles.
Posted on Mar 12, 2007, 11:30 PM from IP address 68.255.174.125
I think a lot of people have an interest in blocking research that might prove Hauptmann innocent, and regularly buy up, destroy, or delete, information that doesn't agree to their philosophy. They did that with Lindbergh's father when Attorney General Palmer had his book publisher raided todestroy the printing plate and confiscate his books. There are some rare book dealers around that might have one.
Posted on Mar 13, 2007, 9:10 PM from IP address 68.255.248.110
I noticed this same use of "boad" mistake police police and Wilentz used repeaedly earning them a three star dunce cap from the world of education. During my time in the University I studied German and used the digital programing style that has English speakers practice common words from English into German pronunciation using their dialect structure, and the word "boat" would be pronounced "boot" with a "D" ending sound.
From Theon Wright's Book, In Search of the Lindbergh Baby pg. 159 "Theo Bernsen, a European writer covering the Hauptnn Case, tpld Anthony Scaduto he had discussed the matter of Hauptmann's writing with an expert on translating English and German writing attached to the German Embassy in London. He showed his enlarged photographs, presumably the kidnap notes, and was told these were not written by a German who had been tauht English, but by a man who thinks in English and is trying to write Germanic." "The grammatical errors show it clearly, the attempt to make a Germanic construction by a man who thinks in English. He particularly stressed the word "boad" which Osborn and others claimed was German. In German it is written with a "t"--boot--and is not possible a German just learning English would make that mistake."
Posted on Mar 9, 2007, 1:55 AM from IP address 65.43.209.195
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This pretty exposes Boad Nelly broadside as a phoney fabrication/
This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 69.214.138.4 on Mar 9, 2007 9:37 PM This message has been edited by rwitty from IP address 69.214.138.4 on Mar 9, 2007 9:29 PM
Posted on Mar 9, 2007, 4:40 PM from IP address 128.104.76.199
Great movie--Terrific book!! Still have my copy.
Every time I see discussion of "boad" my mind flickers over to Das Boot! In Hauptmann's known writing I'm seeing the letter "d" with a (last)downstroke coming well down below the body of the rest of the letter. The best I can see it doesn't show up like that in the ransom notes. What do you think?
Posted on Mar 9, 2007, 8:50 PM from IP address 216.145.85.247
Thanks for your suupport, and if we can find a few more of these issues showing court miss use of evidence, maybee the Federal court can review New Jersey evidence. Anne Lindbergh's writing most nearly matches the ransom note writing, and didn't she contend it was an accident, and is what I believe happened. Charley was injured beyond simple rehabilitation, and may still not be fully recovered, but even Norris got the unwelcome sign when he tried to find out. Somewhere in one of the locations researched is a lead to where Charley is or was kept, for instance John Hopkins, Conneticut, New York Sanitarium .
Posted on Mar 9, 2007, 10:01 PM from IP address 69.214.138.4
Andrew Dutch commented in Hysteria that whoever created the triumverate of Condon, Means and Curtis was a genius of missed directions! It would take the NJSP, the BOI, and the OSS to manufacture this many falsehoods thus proving the point that something else is being covered up by the kidnap hoax. No Lone Wolfe can kidnap Charlie Jr. with 2 cars and all the complexities--which belies the fact that no Lone WolfeII can come up with this many falseleads and obfuscations after the fact as a counter balance either.
Posted on Mar 22, 2007, 3:52 AM from IP address 209.240.206.209
The key to the BRH conviction is the backwoods and a bunch of uneducated hicks. It is interesting to consider seriously who first comes up with this Prosecution Strategy? These two counties are like Nite and Day. Mercer County has Princeton University, the State capital and forensic Pathologists. Hunterdon County hardly has anything but woods and churches.Even Featherbed Road exits in Mercer County!
The issue has to come up pretty early in the LKC because it is critical to steer the evidence back into Hunterdon after Xharlies blackened corpse is found south of Hopewell in Mercer County. In deference to the Family, there is no Coroners Inquest or Jury to deterimine the identity of the corpse.(Note the same for Violet) This all works better in provincial Hunterdon. There can be no gunshot or bullet because noone in Hunterdon heard any gunshot which might have occured out-of-towne. In a case completely controlled and yet bungled by CAL and his agents--making certain the Trial will end up in a small towne is brilliant. Charlie MUST BE KILLED near enough to HOME to fall off the ladder in HUNTERDON COUNTY no matter what! He cant even be alive outta County let alone out of State! So all the Boad stuff is just hooey. If the body is brought back as is indicated by the extreme decomposition then they had to lie about that as well. Rather clever (evil) to forsee all of this.
Posted on Mar 11, 2007, 8:58 AM from IP address 128.104.50.167
It has to be that detectives were were cooperating with Lindbergh to make evidence fit. First of all if they had done their job at the nursery not having fingerprint could only mean inside job or fake story. Michael just told me there were letters confirming Ellerson's story about Elizabeth's part, but the Ellerson affadavit is missing. This to me means there were inside connections in the police working to block the Elizabeth investigation.
Posted on Mar 12, 2007, 9:30 PM from IP address 68.255.174.125
Vol. 13, No. 3,096 - The American Reporter - February 19, 2007
Hominy & Hash
THE 'COLD CASE' OF THE CENTURY
by Constance Daley
American Reporter Correspondent
St. Simons Island, Ga.
Printable version of this story
ST. SIMONS ISLAND, Ga. -- If I knew then what I know now, well, there is no doubt that I would be retired from a lifetime career in forensic science. I am drawn to my wide-screen television set each night for re-runs of "Law and Order," "Cold Case Files," "Forensics" and "48 hours." And, weekly, "Bones," "CSI, Crime Scene Investigation, Las Vegas." There are many programs I've seen more than twice. Originally, it was the street scenes of New York City that claimed my interest but now I realize it the crime and detection that draws me.
Lately, I'm thinking "outside the box," as they say in contemporary jargon. I watch the program and at the same time wonder just how much we would know now if we had applied today's knowledge to one of the cases that still calls out for clarification down the long, long halls of memory.
I was born four months before Charles Augustus Lindbergh, Jr. was kidnapped and yet that case became part of my life's lore since that day in March, 1932. Although I can't recall events during those months before I was a year old, I was being involved.
Baby Lindbergh was about 20 months old; policenationwide stopped all automobiles to see if a baby was on board. In mid-March, my father was driving and my mother held me close to her breast while discreetly nursing me. When the policeman asked to see the baby's feet, my mother, perplexed, said "This is a baby girl, officer, not a toddler."
"I have my orders, ma'am. The Colonel's babe has a deformed toe and I have to check all babies. That means all babies," he said emphatically. Kidnappings for ransom were very rare, so we can't blame the police for not knowing then what we have since learned. In fact, out of this case came the Lindbergh Law; kidnapping became a federal crime.
My mother complied but not without difficulty. All babies wore socks but they were hoisted up to the diaper and pinned. Legs were kept warm but it wasn't easy to expose the toes in a car idling at curbside on a cold evening. Satisfied, the policeman nodded and said "on your way, now."
That little incident was not enough to create a bond between young Lindbergh and me but I grew up knowing all about him. Over my crib was a framed picture of the toddler and my mother mourned that loss as if he were her own.
I've read the books written on the case and have seen guests on talk shows over the years who were reporters at the trial. Adela Rogers St. John, a reporter for Hearst newspapers and frequent guest on the Mike Douglas Show told of the circus atmosphere in Hopewell, New Jersey. Newspaper writer and legend, H L Mencken, called the whole affair "the biggest story since the Resurrection."
Lindbergh would not inform police of ransom demands; instead, he paid them ... twice, to two separate con men, at $100,000 each.
Would this case go this far today? The crime scene, the area around the ladder propped against the window leading into the baby's room, originally had two sets of footprints. By the time the masses traipsed through the region, there was nothing usable. Fingerprints on the window sill were also contaminated.
With everything I have read, I must find Bruno Hauptman guilty of the kidnapping and the murder. But, it's not because they proved it so in court. Quite the contrary. The shadow of a doubt loomed large but nobody paid attention. I base my assumption on the money he was offered and refused to take ($90,000) if he would confess. The death sentence would be taken off the table and his wife and child would live happily ever after. Nope. He would not confess to something he didn't do.
When the body of a toddler roughly the same age and size was discovered, it was declared to be the Lindbergh baby, identified by his father in a brief look at the decomposed body. However, Dr. Philip Van Ingen, a pediatrician who had seen him two weeks before the kidnapping, gave a very thorough examination. He would not conclusively say it was the Lindbergh baby. He went on to declare: "If someone were to come in here and offer me ten million dollars ... I simply wouldn't be able to identify those remains."
According to a reference in Wikipedia: "As of 2006, the body of the child has never been positively identified by forensic means - and, thus the child may be classified as missing."
That is a very chilling thought even for a cold case file. I'd like to know the true end of the story. Dr. Van Ingen could not identify those remains - but we could. DNA must be available. Consider that a collective "we." Someone can, but alas, I can't. I missed my calling.
Constance Daley's New Book
"Sidewalks and Sand"
Is Available Now At www.skylinetoshoreline
Copyright 2007 Joe Shea The American Reporter. All Rights Reserved.
Posted on Mar 1, 2007, 5:57 PM from IP address 209.139.109.104
Great story, and it drives home the meaning to what everyone experienced from this case at it's beginnings. This case brings to mind the terrible plight for family, and what it must mean for the child to only dream of lost parents. This is one reason why I listed as many of the Charley Claimants on the other site I could find, as perhaps one of them might actualy be that child, and if not somone elses child just looking.
Posted on Mar 1, 2007, 7:35 PM from IP address 68.255.252.5
Ol Oscar Bush, Indian tracker followed two sets of footprints, one small and one large from Charlies window/ladder down to Featherbed Lane. Bush thought that the smaller set of footprints had.."an overlapping toe on the right foot"? How can this be? Did the snatcher just walk Charlie Jr. down to the waiting car? (CAL) Anyways, when the NJSP heard this story they stopped talking to Bush and did not try to bring in the bloodhounds Ol Oscar recommended/ see Lloyd Gardner the Case that Never Dies for details or Laura Vitray's book Hullabaloo.
In the Trial/ Troopers Wolf and Gaetano revised this to a single set of footprints?
Posted on Mar 2, 2007, 12:35 PM from IP address 128.104.76.22
In the law books I found they made issue to that fact the troopers changed their story. It seems that every witness changed their story in this case, and wonder if that shouldn't have made a miss-trial?
Posted on Mar 2, 2007, 4:30 PM from IP address 192.150.115.150
So if Oscar Bush says the small right footprints had overlapping little toes....and CAL says the body found on Mt. Rose Road has overlapping second toes....are they at least on the Right Foot? Was there a small discrepancy in the nature of the missmatching overlapped toes causeing some to doubt the identity of Charlie Jr.?
Posted on Mar 6, 2007, 10:40 AM from IP address 128.104.76.93
That would be a great find, as such a discrepency would make a sure sign CAL was trying to cover odd differences in the body as he went along. I tried topost findings as reported by Radelet on the other forum, but Kevkon his thing and insinuates that I shouldn't give phony opinions without backing, but I see he does a pretty good job of it. He comes up with these ridiculous digressions almost paranoid on others attacking the truth.
Posted on Mar 7, 2007, 1:17 AM from IP address 65.48.39.162
Almost all the real forensic evidence in the LKC was bungled, contaminated or just plain lost: fingerprints, footprints, and a couple of deaths with no Coroners jury or inquest: eg Charlie Jr. and Violet Sharpe. Presumably one at Highfields and one at Next Day Hill with 29 servants present plus CAL, Anne, Dwight Jr. The only one missing is Miss Elizabeth Morrow?
As late as Fall of 1935, Dr. Erastus Mead Hudson was still astonished that the baby found on Mt. Rose Hill had no fingerprints. In a related story, by that time the Maybe Baby was found on Long Island by the attorney for BRHs sister, the sets of Charlies fingerprints were also lost thus no direct comparisons possible?
Isnt it astounding that Keruga needed to rely upon a News Photo to establish chain of custody for Rail 16? Without this there were no official photos of the Crime Scene? Once you loose or alter or substitute all the evidence in a capital murder case you can head out in any direction you want?
Posted on Mar 7, 2007, 3:02 AM from IP address 128.104.49.94
I is incredible that such a badly handled court case was allowed to continue without someone calling for a miss trial. The other forums seem to be suffering from mass hypnottism much the way Hunterdown Court was back then, and seems they just stepped over any logical reasoning or good detective work.
The case can only be reheard in Federal Court with someone legitatly claiming to be Charley because statute of limitations has run on other claims. I tried to explain that to the Charley claiments, but for some reason they don'tseem to understand. The case needs Federal Court to make the missing evidence either return or supply mandatory DNA, plus avoiding the state gang.
Posted on Mar 7, 2007, 4:19 PM from IP address 66.213.21.18
