I'm hearing that Kirkwood and the Rockets are having discussions with folks in the Midwest league about joining their league next year. If this works out, they would play in two leagues if MoHockey approves the merger and only the Midwest League if the merger is not approved. This would provide a great alternative to central states, particularly in the minor years where there are only 4-6 teams in the CS league and most of them are watered down.

What would Haze have to say about that?

Some more shitty teams joining what league with what teams? Put a bandaid on years of bad decisions by board members, poor coaching, and a general lack of understanding how to develop and maintain some of your coe players.

Amazingly ignorant statement when CHA just announced their CS line-up and include Rockets and St. Peters coaches as their choices. Except for Kearns you don't have one coach from within CHA.

and if you want to talk about boondoggle moves by a club look at the short roster fiasco, spring league and elite programs!

The Affton team that went to the finals was almost all KW and Rockets players so they must do something right at those clubs to develop players and coaches, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, the funny thing is that Chesterfield is objecting to this proposed merger. Why you ask? They want to continue to ensure that the top Kirkwood and Rockets kids move out there. It's my understanding that Twin Bridges and Meremac also objected, but their reasons are at least more understandable. They are fighting to survive.

Sounds like a great idea. It adds 3 travel weekends to the schedule but you get to play teams you might not otherwise play.

Mo Hockey needs to pull their head out of their collective a**es. Regardless of the reasons why and how, hockey is becoming lopsided in St Louis and this governing board is MIA. They better re-think a few things or consider themselves part of the problem rather than the solution.

If you project forward for 10 years what has happened to St Louis youth hockey over the last 10 years you see youth hockey all but disapearing.

MO Hockey you better start figuring out a way to quit pissing off your "customers" before you find yourself with nobody to govern.

what is the midwest league?

12:08 The Midwest League is the league for the Midwest Hockey affiliate, which is the governing body for hockey in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, and Western Missouri.

11:37 OK genius tell us what the problem is. Then how to solve it.

Problem-Consolidation of higher skilled talent at two clubs to the detriment of competitive balance and ability to field teams at all other clubs.

Solution-Complete rewriting of rules relating to Districting, OTT, Pool Player and National Tournament Eligibility.

The problem appears in your mirror. When you lose the condescending, arrogant attitude, open your ears and mind, then close your mouth, maybe you might learn something. Until that time talking to you would be an exercise in futility.

Ok let's get to the bottom line.
Objecting is one thing voting is another.

Did MoHockey stop the Kirkwood Rockets AA merger or not?

There are no announcements on KW, WG, or MoHockey.

another shit-ball league like the uphl?

Just like the Cavallini teams, you just cannot stand if somebody does something to improve their situation, you just have to take those cheap shots anonymously.

It is unbelievable that you folks get on here and scream at all the "poorly" run clubs to do something and then when they do all you do is sit at your keyboard bashing them at every turn.

Please tell us what is so right about the current state of STL hockey that all the other clubs in town besides Chesty and AA should just take their lumps?

12:55 you stated the following "Problem-Consolidation of higher skilled talent at two clubs to the detriment of competitive balance and ability to field teams at all other clubs."

After reviewing the AA final standings I found the following:

MM - top 2 teams within 1 point 3rd place 6 points out
mm - top 2 teams within 4 points 3rd place 13 points out
BT - top 3 teams within 5 points
PW - top 6 teams within 9 points
SQ1 - top 2 teams within 3 points
SQ2 - top 5 teams witiin 9 points

Based on the above, I would have to say that "competitive balance" has NOT been sacrificed. Additionally with the exception of Midgets (which Meramec & STP don't do) all local teams provide teams at the AA level the there goes the "ability to field teams at all other clubs", especially with the rule changes that allow smaller rosters.

can't win here, so add travel to play the hockey powerhouses in the corn belt.

The decision of MoHockey will be made/announced at the may 19 board meeting.

IF the board says No to the merger
I say let Chesterfield, Affton, and St.Peters have a 3 team AA league.

Rockets need to merge again, what, 3 years after the first merger created the so called R club of ARC? Remember how this new powerhouse was going to be unstoppable just a few years back? Maybe instead of merging these clubs should work on recruiting new players at LTP and mini mites. In the end, it's all a numbers game.

7:25- you are a typical idiot on these sites who uses the facts loosely and really doesn't care about this issue at all.

the merger tool place 4 years ago after about 4 seasons of AA being merged. The ltp and younger numbers joining the club are fine it is the fact that as they get older the upper level players move to play CS. especially at minor birth years this kills the ability to field a team.

Affton is for it. Chesterfield is opposed. go figure.

The midwest hockey league has some major metropolitan clubs-Ames, Waterloo, Coralville, Fremont. Nothing like driving 7 hours because you don't want to play clubs 10 min across town. Don't think this would pass the smell test with the club membership-if they ever bother to ask.

11:01

You wrote that the club fully merged after about four seasons of AA being merged. What are you smoking? Obviously you were not at the club at the time so let's set the record straight. AA was merged for one year. After the AA teams were merged for a year then the clubs put it to membership to fully merge. But it was only one year of being together at AA. The 2004-2005 season to be exacty which was also the one and only year of blackbear.

It was kind of odd. AA teams did have new rockets jerseys which now all the teams wear. But the non AA teams wore either webster jerseys or creve coeur jerseys. So a kid who was still technically a webster player was now wearing a creve coeur jersey at games and vice versa.

But it was only a year of AA being together.

6:49- you just proved my point you ass.

The reason they had uniforms for AA is that they had been playing as Rockets at AA for about 3-4 years. When the clubs merged at all levels the decision was to not purchase uniforms until the next year and the teams alternated between Comets and Wings uniforms for the first year of being merged. It was also to save an expense because MO Hockey only approved it for an initial year and if the clubs didn't merge the extra uniforms wouldn't be needed.

If the season was 2004-2005, which it was, that makes it 4 years not 3.

The Rockets were formed about 3 or 4 years earlier. WORD!

Your statement this morning proves you have no clue and just spew out whatever the fuck you want. Unfortunately some people who read it might believe you have a clue, which you don't.

Now admit you were completely WRONG.

First season the Rockets played was 01-02.

The guy at 6:49 is completely wrong about everything he says. I am pretty sure he believes that is what happened but everything he says is false. Typical N54 know it all.

Who cares about the frickin history lesson.

All of this still looks like the Rockets/Kirkwood assoc want the easy way out. So much for work ethic.

The will still suck.....

If we just ELIMINATE the damn CS crap all together, and have players go back to playing at their own damn organizations, we can get back to some sort of normalcy. How did this Hazletun goof get to decide anything and everything that goes on in StL? Screw him, the way its set up now ONLY BENEFITS affton and slightly benefits chesterfield.

Go Affton!

Fuck Affton!

The AA teams last year in the Midwest league are in Waterloo (288 miles); Cedar Rapids (242 miles); Des Moines (270 miles); Sioux City (530 miles); Quad Cities (Davenport) (203 miles); Kansas City (260 miles); Omaha (440 miles); Lincoln (480 miles).

The way the league works is that you play all of your league games over 4 weekends. It's nice because it enables teams that typically travel 3-4 times anyway to still get out of town but avoid paying tournament fees for poorly run tournaments.

I can't speak for the teams at all age levels but the Peewee teams in this league were clearly superior to the Peewee AA teams in the MoHockey league, particularly Omaha and KC.

Guess that depends upon who you are. Rockets beat and tied KC never lost to them.

1:48, The MW league was clearly designed for the smaller hockey clubs in the generally rural Iowa, KS, Nebraska, South Dakota where teams are spread out and lack local competition. Why drive that far period when there is plenty of competiton here in STL? Let see you beat the Affton or Chesty teams before looking "stronger" AA teams in the mw league.

Who cares if they play in the Midwest league? If they also play Mohockey, no one loses and they get some extra games. The MHL only encompases 4 weekends; the last being the season end tournament. You can even lobby to host one weekend in your hometown. It beats paying for an over priced hyped-up tournament and the kids get to play some different competition. And your whining over 200-300 miles? Maybe rec baseball is more your speed.

The Rockets may have beaten and tied KC, but KC was clearly the better team over the course of the season. That had to be the highlight of the Rockets season, because there weren't many.

CS isnt going away, it makes too much money. Having CS go away only make local hockey more competitive. Your still going to run up against stiff competition when you leave the stl area.

11:18 watch the mouth

how many affton & CHA CS players are from their own clubs.....not many. ruined entire league AA for the benefit of the few.

enjoy the travel, benders.

6:49- you just proved my point you ass.

The reason they had uniforms for AA is that they had been playing as Rockets at AA for about 3-4 years. When the clubs merged at all levels the decision was to not purchase uniforms until the next year and the teams alternated between Comets and Wings uniforms for the first year of being merged. It was also to save an expense because MO Hockey only approved it for an initial year and if the clubs didn't merge the extra uniforms wouldn't be needed.

If the season was 2004-2005, which it was, that makes it 4 years not 3.

The Rockets were formed about 3 or 4 years earlier. WORD!

Your statement this morning proves you have no clue and just spew out whatever the fuck you want. Unfortunately some people who read it might believe you have a clue, which you don't.

Now admit you were completely WRONG

I will admit that I was completely wrong. Completely wrong about you not having your head completely rammed up your ass.
Since I guess because you cuss it makes your points more valid I will play along to that line of reasoning.


Q: What is Rockets Hockey?

A: Established by permission of Missouri Hockey in June of 2004, The St Louis Rockets Hockey club (nee Webster Groves Creve Coeur Hockey Association) is the combination of the former Webster Wings (The Webster Groves Hockey Association of Webster Groves, Missouri) and the Creve Coeur Comets (The Creve Coeur Hockey Club of Creve Coeur, Missouri). We have 29 teams for the 2006-07 season ranging from Mini-Mite (6 and under) through Midget Major (18 and under).

Check this out from above on the rockets hockey site you miserable pile of shit. I said the rockets were formed in the 2004-2005 season and what the fuck does this say from the rockets site? I will read it since you probably can not read you miserable dumb fuck. The rockets were established in 2004. So are you going to say they were established 3-4 years earlier despite what is on the rockets site? Are you fucking kidding me?

Word? here is the word or words......you are are a real dumb fuck who was completely wrong and tried to act like some arrogant asshole even though I had the information correct from the start.......word.....you fucking jackoff

Hey 8:31 on 5/1

Guy said rockets were formed in 2004. Rockets website says rockets were formed in 2004. Why dont you show evidence to the contrary or go fuck yourself?

Who cares when they were formed. Whether it was 4 years ago or 8 years ago the point is still the same. They were formed to make the Webster AA team competitive so they could keep their top players at home. Most predicted it was a short-term, take the easy way out approach, and they have been proven correct. Now history will repeat itself. The Rock Stars may be competitive for 3 or 4 years, but the top kids will continue to flee for Central States and AAA because that is the only proven path to Jrs. and College hockey. Fact. We will continue to canibalize our clubs until there are 3 left--Affton, CHA and St. Peters. Fact. And this is good for youth hockey how again (ask someone involved in competitive soccer if they view STL SG as a good thing)?

Wake up! These clubs in particular have proven they are plenty good at developing players. The AAA and CS teams are littered with kids from Rockets and KW. So development is not the problem. Numbers is the problem. Kirkwood has gone from about 500 skaters to about 300 in the past few years. And that ain't all from OTT. The mini mite numbers have gone from around 100 - 120 per year 5 years ago to 40 - 50 the past 2 years. That's the problem. Fix that and the club thrives, especially with its new skill development process which is already showing succcess.

Moreover, why are we obsessed with whether a club "competes" in MOAM's crap AA league and how do we define "compete?" I have news for you. The KW PW, SQ and MT teams did great last year! KW won the league and playoff championships in 3 out of the 6 travel divisions at Mites and Squirts. KW had the best overall combined record at Squirt and Mite Travel hockey and were in the mix for top overall record when you throw PW in. And that is with dimninished numbers. What is so wrong that needs to be fixed by merging with another club?

Finally, the person calling people names and clarifying that the Rockets have been around for 8 years instead of 4 is surely one of the maniacs who tried to hijack the club several years ago and then went away crying when he didn't get his way. They were proven wrong. Merging two "weak" clubs" does not make a "strong" club. It makes a bigger "weak" club whose flaws will be exposed shortly over time. Fix the enrollment issue and you have fixed the so called problem. Fact.

6:41 today

You are right on the money with all your thoughts. I think one thing that would really help if they did away with minor year central states. As some might remember that there was only major year central states team when central states first started.

Milf hunter? Where are you when we need you-its time for some commentary. Some of these guys might have blown an artery and might be lying dead in front of their computers now.

9:11...thanks for your support. Now, let's get down to serious business on this merger stuff. Nothing about the history of MO youth hockey has any bearing on our current dilemma, given the state of our Treasure Trove of MILF stables; as most would agree, we're in a flux right now. By having seperate stables, the level of quality is likely diluted somewhat. By merging the stables we stand to raise the overall quality level of the MILF treasure troves at each birth year, thus improving the experience realized by us short, dumpy and unathletic dads, particularly as we hang out in hotel lounges and at humid indoor pools, as we pretend to not pay attention to them. This solution doesn't necessarily speak to the quest for higher levles of play on the ice, but a reasonable potential trade-off, nonetheless. Hopefully, my ideas presented here will spring board us all to a more meaningful level of dialogue in which we can all find a viable solution that satisfies our competing interests. Comments are encouraged and welcomed.

So MILF hunter once the merger is completed and the stables have been sucessfully consolidated-do you have a plan to develop them into AAA talent?

Trying to have a discussion about the merits of this merger when people do not know the basics of when a club formed or merged in the past is pointless.

The Rockets club formed when the Webster and Creve Coeur clubs were merge after 4 years of those two clubs playing at the AA level.

Ask any of the kids who played on the teams back then. Just because the website has it listed wrong does not mean it didn't happen.

Website is wrong but you are right. Just keep them coming.....funny stuff

12:47 your prescription is ready for pick up a Walgreens, and remember don't drink and type, it disproves how smart you really think you are.

Vote results from MO Hockey on AA merger of KW and R.

Yes - One less AA team in St Louis than last year at each level.

No - Two fewer AA teams in St Louis than last year at each level.

OPTION

Disband CS and re-district - 1 to 2 more AA teams than last year at most levels an overall improvement at A1, A2, B etc.

I wonder what would be best for St Louis youth hockey overall?

Have any of you considered that over the past 10 years the numbers of quality hockey players that St. Louis has produced has skyrocketed? National Championship appearances every year, the occasional National Champion. At both Tier I and Tier II. Let's see, 10 years? That happens to correspond to our involvement with CSDHL.

Instead of being the problem that you claim, maybe CSDHL has made everybody better by providing an outlet for top level tier II players. Maybe CSDHL has made AAA better by increasing the pool of players exposed to higher levels of competition. Maybe the MOAM model of the 80's and 90's that you so desperately want was holding kids back. Nostalgia is the STL way. You guys are so STL it is hilarious - you probably still talk about what you did in HS.

Rip Affton or Chesterfield if you want, but you cannot argue with the fact that the current system is working and working well.

The system that is in place creates an environment where players are pushed up, not down. You miss the fact that your kid would probably be pushed down to A1 if you got rid of CSDHL. You are way too focused on what YOU "think" the problems of St. Louis hockey are and take a look at the success that so many kids are having. You need to think a little more globally instead of whether or not your team was .500 last year.

Easy for you to say with your CS franchise.

That is a joke of a statment. Why don't you support the formation of another Tier I club and forego destroying every other club in town? Let us all embrace right now the STL Selects for the good of development and cancel the CS programs for one year!

Have you noticed that while you are singing the praises of your success at Tier II the number of clubs in town, the number of players in town and the number of people who want to serve as volunteers are all way down? Why do you think this great benefit to two clubs and a handful of players is good?

Do you really believe it better to have a few more banners hanging at Affton and Chesterfield rinks than to have more clubs, more kids and more people involved with the sport?

Talk about a myopic, self-centered, short term outlook!

Don't have a dog in this race. Just pointing out the obvious.

Maybe its because of whining, overly political, pushy asses like you who worry about what everyone else is doing and not enough about what you are doing.

best of luck to ya.

What is obvious?

That the number of players and teams are down across the region? That even with an influx of OTT players year after year not even Affton or Chesty has any substantial increase in numbers in the last 10 years.

You mean obvious shit like that?

"top level tier II players"

Now that is a funny quote!!!!!

10:51- are you the smart guy who thought having two AAA teams coached by one coach was the way to go? I thought so...

Suck on this you asswipe, call any of these guys and ask them if they coached these teams in 2003, before the merger took place club wide you clueless ass.

2003-2004 Rocket AA Head Coaches
Mite: Steve Walters
Squirt: Paul Cavallini
PeeWee: Dave Garth
Bantam: John Metz
Midget Minor: Dave Schneider and Steve Schwer
Midget Major: Larry Hellwig and Kevin Truman

9:11...thanks for your support. Now, let's get down to serious business on this merger stuff. Nothing about the history of MO youth hockey has any bearing on our current dilemma, given the state of our Treasure Trove of MILF stables; as most would agree, we're in a flux right now. By having seperate stables, the level of quality is likely diluted somewhat. By merging the stables we stand to raise the overall quality level of the MILF treasure troves at each birth year, thus improving the experience realized by us short, dumpy and unathletic dads, particularly as we hang out in hotel lounges and at humid indoor pools, as we pretend to not pay attention to them. This solution doesn't necessarily speak to the quest for higher levles of play on the ice, but a reasonable potential trade-off, nonetheless. Hopefully, my ideas presented here will spring board us all to a more meaningful level of dialogue in which we can all find a viable solution that satisfies our competing interests. Comments are encouraged and welcomed.

6:40....If you're serious, then you don't know the real difference between upper tier, Teir 1 and Tier 2 teams. Much of the difference is roster depth and goaltending. Many 3rd and 4th liners--and, in some cases 2nd liners--on tier 1 teams oftentimes would not be considered strong 1st liners on strong tier 2 team. To believe otherwise is to have on mule blinders, which would not be a surprise if you're a dad of a 2-4th liner on a tier 1 team. Nothing wrong with dreaming, right. Now all fat, dumpy and unathletic dads should head to the freezer and grab that 1/2 gallon of Cookies and Cream and chow down!

Midget Major Final Roster
Here is the final roster for the 2003-2004 Rockets Midget Major Team:

1. Marco Giuffrida
2. Brock Gale
3. Chris Yehling
4. Andy Broughton
5. Matt Cantor
6. Torre Carribino
7. Zach Ginsburg
8. Steve Hellwig
9. Ryan Higgins
10. Chris Lupo
11. Chris Pellerin
12. Greg Weimer
13. Eric Sease
14. Kyle Gally
15. Max Ryan
16. Logan McDonald
17. Kyle Tierney
18. Tom O'Sullivan

1:00 am dude- there is the proof, what do you say now jagass?

That one is easy. Website is wrong. Right?

first year that CC & WG combined at AA ("Rockets") was 2001-02. Paul C had quite the Squirt AA team that year with kids like J. Berger, Burkemper, etc.

Rockets were a "AA only" combination for at least 3 seasons before the full merger.

I remember Paul C had a SQ AA team with his other son. Pulled the goalie in the second period just for the hell of it. Lamest cheer ever before a game

5, 4, 3, 2, 1 Blastoff!

Somebody said it earlier in this thread, how can you have an intelligent debate when some of these clowns spout off as if they are experts on the topic and they don't even know the basics?

Some guy reads a website and immediately thinks he is informed and capable of debating something when in reality he is clueless.

Yes, the website refers to the full merger of two clubs, Webster and Creve Coeur, the AA teams started play 4 years earlier.

One coach for two AAA teams guy has been proven wrong once again.

11:01 You wrote that the club fully merged after about four seasons of AA being merged. What are you smoking? Obviously you were not at the club at the time so let's set the record straight. AA was merged for one year. After the AA teams were merged for a year then the clubs put it to membership to fully merge. But it was only one year of being together at AA. The 2004-2005 season to be exacty which was also the one and only year of blackbear.

It was kind of odd. AA teams did have new rockets jerseys which now all the teams wear. But the non AA teams wore either webster jerseys or creve coeur jerseys. So a kid who was still technically a webster player was now wearing a creve coeur jersey at games and vice versa.

But it was only a year of AA being together.

THIS HAS TO BE THE SAME GUY WHO THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT AAA ASSIGNED TWO TEAMS TO ONE COACH, HAS TO BE, NOBODY ELSE AS DEMONSTRATED SUCH AN UNCANNY ABILITY TO BE SO PROPHETICALLY WRONG TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!!!!

Yes Brown coaching two teams really was a horrible thing. Both ended up as number one teams in the country.......oh the HUMANITY!!

Brown didn't coach two teams. How did that Gober thing work out?

Brown did not start this season as the head coach of the 97 and 98's?

Check this out from above on the rockets hockey site you miserable pile of shit. I said the rockets were formed in the 2004-2005 season and what the fuck does this say from the rockets site? I will read it since you probably can not read you miserable dumb fuck. The rockets were established in 2004. So are you going to say they were established 3-4 years earlier despite what is on the rockets site? Are you fucking kidding me?


YES, IMBECILE, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING AND HAVE PROVIDED PROOF YOU KNOW NOT OF WHICH YOU TYPE.

This merger proposal and possible play in the Midwest League is more of an indictment of the health of youth hockey in St Louis than anything. Isn't Mo Hockey supposed to oversee the well being and growth of this sport and work with organizations to that end?


OK 12:36 gnaw on this. Why would CF object to this proposal? I'm sure their objection is based in what?
1 what is best for St Louis youth hockey
2 what is best for CF



Your archaic districting lines are choking clubs to death. The only reasons I can think of to not redistrict is 1) you are too lazy or 2) you want to destroy youth hockey in St Louis. You drew up the district lines that are slowly killing these clubs, get off your dead ass and FIX IT. A number of years ago KW and W ran out of farmland that could be turned into 75 home subdivisions. One other demographic shift that has not occurred is the young families of 4 or 5 with hockey age kids filling all the condo's that are popping up in these communities.



Help me out here with something I'm confused about. If for example the success the 96 AAA team had, was a collective St Louis effort. Wouldn't all the larger clubs who have taken on these high level teams want to make sure their "farm" system stays intact? The short sighted, poorly thought out argument that these kids would come play for their clubs anyway, isn't mindful of the fact that these kids might not have ever started playing in the first place, because KW,W,M,TB,SI didn't have a program OR A RINK. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the first couple of steps in becoming a AAA player learning how to skate and then signing up for hockey?



If CS is such a great thing for all of St Louis hockey then why don't you spread it around. Maybe the SQ CS could play at M and the PW CS at K. This way, because this program is so great for hockey in general, the other clubs around town could help A and CF share the burden of hosting this program. After all, this program has no effect on the balance of hockey among the clubs in St Louis it just offers a higher level of play than is currently available.



If these organizations don't want to spread this wonderfully neutral effect program among the rest of the St Louis clubs then don't allow OTT's to these clubs, only from them. Mo H may not have a say on who has CS but they have a say on OTT's to these clubs regular programs.... for now. I would guess K,R,M,TB,SI, and maybe even SP might be willing to back Mo H if they decided to play hardball with CF and A in regards to CS and its effects. After all these two reputable clubs also have AA, A, B, C hockey to think of. Knowing full they can't monetarily survive without every lowly level of hockey below CS, and that these organizations would never do anything to undermine the majority for a select few it would probably not have to come to threats or hardball.



5:35 your thought process has one small flaw, IT'S ALL WRONG. Ten years of CS is taking its toll and consolidating/killing hockey at some clubs. Lets continue forward with your flawed thought process. Eventually AA does not exist at KW, R, SI, M, TB because there aren't enough kids to form one of these .500 teams you speak of. Kids get tired of losing and seeing their friends transfer or quit, the parents who pay for all of this decide that dealing with mindless morons who can't see their way clear to do what is best for the sport that these inept control freaks claim to love finally say screw it. Yeah the "CURRENT" system is working well, the problem is you've taxed the shit out of it and it is about to come home and roost.



FFWD to the 2019 CF board meeting. Moron 1, "Our CS program is struggling, we were only 4-10-2 last season, we need to turn this thing around and get back to our winning ways or combine with Affton. The Kirkwood and Webster programs aren't turning out kids the way they used to because they got rid of their AA programs back in 2010. I don't understand why they didn't try to save AA, they were developing some really good kids." Moron 2 "Maybe we could start a AA pilot program in K."



You know what, your short sighted self serving view leads me to two conclusion, you must be a clueless Mo H or CF board member and your dad should of pulled out.



5:35 You can blow smoke about all the CS, AAA, Tier 1 and 2, hockey you want. The fact of the matter is you have absolutely nothing without the other 3500 kids who play hockey in this area, act as recruiters, and support the municipal rinks. If memory serves me correctly CF ice rink was a corn field when Kirkwood built their rink. Demographics have caught up with us and we need some help. We have a good program that is struggling because Mo H has tied one hand behind our back and dumb fucks like you somehow manage to influence important decisions.



Now, do you want to continue to be part of the problem or do you want to try and help fix what is wrong, for the betterment of St Louis youth hockey overall.

3:46 is absoultely correct.

Affton and CHA have essentially established rules and a framework that will ultimately have the same eventual effect as a Ponzi scheme. Like a Ponzi scheme, early in the game there will be a period where the model appears to thrive without consequences. And we've seen that. Affton and CHA are allowed to cherry pick the very best players and as an ancillary benefit will also attract via OTT those hoping to be noticed. The disadvantaged clubs will try to combat it in the short term, but ultimately will recognize that they're unable to compete.

But, like a Ponzi scheme, it will eventually collapse under its own weight and we're seeing the evidence presently. Valley, Creve Coeur, SIIH and now Kirkwood are all gone in the last six years. It has become convenient to ignore this trend. Some may say that they were weak, but it is the CSDL rules that ultimately hastened their demise. Most businesses operating at a distinct disadvantage within their business environment will eventually fail.

Eventually, this golden goose will die. It may take a while, but it will most assuredly die. The key point made by 3.46 is that these organizations will no longer be in exsitence to recruit the numbers that Affton and CHA have used to build their empires.

Most families are not fanatical about hockey until after they have become hooked. Fewer clubs will result in fewer kids starting the sport in the first place, becuase the notion of driving 30-40 minutes to practice will dissuade a significant amount from signing up in the first place. Who could argue against that theory? Then, the number of rinks will eventually shrink accordingly and the whole scheme will eventually die a slow, painful death.

But at least Affton and CHA will be able to milk it for some glory for the next few years. Bernie Madoff had a really nice first 70+ years, too.

6:28 I had a hard time figuring out if the first few paragraphs were an autobiography or the confessions of an Affton lap dog. As I read on it was plain to see that you just don't get it. Then it all made sense after I read your 12:10 post, the more dilution created at the top the sooner your kids will make AA. I hope like hell your kids do make AA some day, just not the way you have planned, it hurts St Louis hockey too much. Your comment about the CS feeder program pretty well confirms everything I'm saying. Think about it before you start banging away on your keyboard.

11:59 Thanks for putting it so well. Great analogy, wish I had thought of it.

Regards,
3:46

346 same questiuon to you
Now, do you want to continue to be part of the problem or do you want to try and help fix what is wrong, for the betterment of St Louis youth hockey overall. Get off your ass!!

Funny thing is all it takes is for one club to ask for a board vote to eliminate OTT to cf and affton. The bright leadership at the clubs do not get they have the numbers to trump cf and affton if they stick together.

Are you guys talking about joining the midwest league that the Kansas, Iowa & Nebraska teams compete in? Hell, we'd be glad to have you, but why would you ever want to drive all the way to sioux city iowa when you have so many teams in your own back yard. If you think the grass is greener over here, its not! We've got more than our own fairshare or idiots, retarded over the top coaches and future nhl'ers. Not to mention, just like St. Louis, politics are running rampant. If your in KC and not a Star then you are the red headed step child, and if you are in the Midwest league and not from Omaha then you can count on things really not going your way. Omaha has a way of changing the way rules are enforced year to year and on a case by case basis, obviously it always somehow manages to favor Omaha. funny how that happens. Call it fair warning, we'd love to have some St. Louis teams but want to make sure you are coming with eyes wide open. Oh yeah, since MILF's seem to be a issue as well, not a lot in Iowa and Nebraska, unless you like the wide bodied version...lots of well fed heifers in that part of the country.

346

You are a genius. Maybe you could run for president and solve all of our problems. The best hockey assets you have in St. Louis is the AAA Blues and Affton CS. They attract good players because they generally have better coaching and less club interference. Simple common thread there. Chesterfield CS does a good job too.

Hockey is not a growing sport because it is seen by outsiders as a cult. When newbies show up to rinks they a earful of blowhard know-it-all pompous jackasses who KNOW EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. Look in the freaking mirror!! You are probably the best coach/dad/ref/administrator/volunteer that you have ever met. You are a legend in your own mind. What is pathetic is that, at any given time, there are 10 more like you at the rink. And that is what kills the sport. Sensible people don't like to be around morons. It is a drag to hear adults complain that things "aren't fair" like you are an 8 year old again.

Sitting back and taking pot shots at anything, and everything, you think is wrong in the world of hockey and in the world at large. Shame is, people listen to you for a while because you are so confident in your bullshit that smart people (those who would otherwise never listen to a person like you) start to believe you for a while. You sit and spout mindless BS like "coach should do this, or should practice that" and other gems like "we would win if we didn't lose players to CSDHL or AAA." People like you are not part of the solution, you ARE the problem.

Let the players have fun! Let the kids show up and ENJOY the rink. Stop bitching, complaining and try to move away from the pathetic politics of victimization. You are only a victim of yourself.

Additional rules, central controls and "safeguards" devised by you are not the answer. (Oh Lord they are definitely not the answer) How did Black Bear work for MO Hockey? How many successful programs has Meramec run? Hey lets give them a CSDHL team!! Grand idea.

Can things be done to improve hockey in St. Louis? Absolutely. Should you start by dismantling what is working? Take down organizations that are having success? Bad idea. Maybe we should start by asking the people who have created and maintained successful programs how they do it. And then LISTEN!!

My kids are average players who have fun playing. I have had kids on winning teams and losing teams. The kids have fun, so we keep signing up. It is that simple. Fortunately we have had only a few of your type around. You have an agenda that you are masking in your benevolent "I want to save hockey" bs. That much is clear. My kids will probably never reach the CS level or even the AA level, I don't know. But speaking for those that I know are in the same boat, the only real drawback of hockey (besides the smell of the equipment) are the obnoxious parents who are WAY to emotionally invested in the game. You are they guys that make the sport a creepy cult. It ruins things for their kids and for all that have to be around them. Give it a rest buddy. Take your kid to the rink and maybe he will make the CS team next year. Then we can all go back to enjoying the game without you around.

6:28- explain what is so well run about CS programs at Affton and CS that you have to rely on other clubs members that do such a horrible job.

Explain how it works that all the rules favor your advancing to regional and national play but yet do not play in a MO Hockey league. How you get to select your players first from all over the area but the other clubs have to wait till after you get done picking over the talen to even hold their clubs tryouts?

Explain why you would not support the elimination of CS in favor of another Tier I club, one that all clubs could be in favor of supporting by having players advance up to?

Explain why you cannot dismantle CS in favor of these highly talented players getting a chance to play Tier I like the Cavallini program wants to do. If you are truly for advancing these excellent players and are not parochial and all in it for your own self-gratification and the ability to say how fantastic your club is then do tell us....

We are all waiting for this great explanation of how the rules favor advancement to your club, use the rest of the clubs as feeder programs to OTHER Tier II programs, how we should all shut up and let you continue to destroy hockey at all the other levels so you can hang more National banners in your rinks!

And you wonder why people are flocking to Gino and Paul? Holy cow do you think you get it but don't!

Nothing wrong with the Cavalini group. Looks like they have a good program going with the CS programs helping to feed them too.

What is your problem? The more high level options the better the hockey gets for everyone, even average players. Grow up, take your medicine and calm down. Like was said before, it is psycho people like you who have single issue "agendas" that make hockey miserable for people. You shroud your babble in "we need to save hockey" crap. Please - save hockey - save it one person at a time by moving on to soccer or tennis or something.

As always, blame it on somebody else rather than explain what is so right about this two tier system within a tier.

Nobody has explained why it is better that we no longer have Valley, Granite, Creve Coeur, Webster, Cahokia or Fairview clubs? Didn't this contraction also take place over the last 10 years?

6:28 I had a hard time figuring out if the first few paragraphs were an autobiography or the confessions of an Affton lap dog. As I read on it was plain to see that you just don't get it. Then it became perfectly clear in your 12:10 post, the more dilution created at the top the sooner your kids will make AA. I hope like hell your kids do make AA some day, just not the way you have planned, it hurts St Louis hockey too much. Your comment about the CS feeder program pretty well confirms everything I'm saying. Think about it before you start banging away on your keyboard.

11:59 Thanks for putting it so well. Great analogy, wish I had thought of it.

Regards,
3:46


Thought if I posted it twice it might sink in.

You all are so fixated on the demise of the organizations that one major fact has been overlooked. People that have been involved with hockey for a long time and have kids that play will look for the best fit of a COACH for their kids. COACHES do not want to COACH because of know it all parents that have been talked about in this thread. To have successful programs and get the numbers up you need good parental involvement (let the coach COACH) coaches that are knowledgeable and RESPECT on both sides.
Kids have to be coachable.I am as worried as the next guy about the future of hockey in St. Louis,but you can't place all the blame on one program or one or two clubs. From what I have seen a lot of it has to do with EGO'S.

What in the hell do waffles have to do with it?

I guess your considered the brightest bulb in the bunch,huh?

I liked this thread when everyone was telling each other to fuck off. I could read the WSJ if I wanted frickin essays.

Here is the easy fix:
-Quit doing central states-all the players go back to their clubs-nobody makes runs at a National Championship except a once in 50 years team at tier II AA level. Kids may win a state championships at various levels-have a generally good youth hockey experience.

-The highest level kids and/or best ass kissing parents make it to AAA they go off to college and/or NHL.

It isn't rocket science and its far from what USA hockey wants to do.

Umm 2:49 isnt that exactly what USA hockey wants to do? I feel the F-Bombs coming!

The only way to improve the hockey experience for these poor kids held hostage by shitty clubs is to take them from their constantly whining and bitching parents who teach their kids nothing but that the world is against them, the fix is in, and they'll never amount to anything because the man will always keep them down and there is nothing they can do about it accept bitch anonymously on public internet forums. Imagine being one of these poor kids.

I imagine it being very hard to be at a club close to my home that consistently places other clubs players on the highest teams and overlooks all the great homegrown talent from within our club.

I imagine it sucking really bad that for fear of being blacklisted you can never speak out about it publicly because you have seen where that gets you the following season.

I imagine it must really be a drag to be at a club that talks about how great they are at developing talent only to ignore the fact that most of their teams at the highest levels aren't made up of players that they had anything to do with their development and then blame the other clubs for wanting to halt this insane process.

I imagine it must suck to have your kid be discouraged every time he sees the kids from all over town playing in his clubs uniform and know that most of them could care less about his club, they are only there because they don't offer that level of play at their home club.

I imagine there are more things we could discuss but somebody needs to say on here that my bender didn't make it and that my club sucks.

I love it when the shitty clubs claim they develop so much of the talent that migrates to Affton and Chesterfield. And I'm not disputing that many kids that end up at Affton or Chesterfield originate from these clubs.

There is usually a reason they leave and it is usually that their club has nothing left to offer them. They outgrow their club. Affton and Chesterfield offer higher levels of play and coaching and training, better hockey atmospheres with more convenient hockey resources. But we all know it is really because the fix is in against the club and the big hockey man is keeping those poor little old local small clubs down.

Truth is, many of these kids were born with natural ability, their parents sacrifice and dedicate, usually outside and well-above anything offered by their shitty clubs, to help develop and foster their kid's natural abilities, goals, and dreams. They participate in spring elite teams, attend several camps over Christmas, spring, and summer. They take their 200 shots a day in the garage or basement, jump rope and perform their own dryland at home on their own. Many I know play some roller hockey in the off-seasons. Hockey is a priority to them over soccer and baseball and lacrosse, or whatever. They eat, sleep, and breathe hockey. And their parents buck up. That's it!

Their success and reward of moving on to better teams and clubs has very little to do with anything involved with practicing and playing with the benders and horrible coaching at their clubs and more to do with their own drive and determination and support from their families. These kids succeed DESPITE their shitty home club. They leave because they know their club can no longer "develop" them, if they ever did, and move on to someone who can. And most of these clubs drive many of these kids away with their childish politics and ridiculous social hierarchies established through years of club "traditions" giving priority to the better connected over the most talented. Most of these kids just want to play hockey and get better and see right through most of the BS these shitty clubs put them through. So they leave for bigger and better things.

Maybe these shitty run clubs who believe they develop this "talent" can learn something from these kids and actually innovate and work towards their goals and objectives instead of blaming everyone else for their own failures and miserable lot in life, instead of hoping for change the easiest way possible through legislation and litigation, and bitching and whining over hard work, innovation, and determination.

Then, just maybe, they'll have a prayer of keeping some of this talent they claim to have "developed" home.

These kids and their families move on towards success because they don't want to be like the rest of you at their shitty club!

TRUTH IS, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, gotta love Jack.

4:14 What your saying is, and thinking out loud here, your kid wasn't good enough to make AAA, but you needed a higher level of competition than AA. So, by forming an un-districted AA St Louis hockey team in a Chicago league, you were able to solve your problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but because your regular districted AA teams were not good enough to be competitive at the lowly Advanced Tournaments (in the same city), you decided you needed the help of some of the shitty clubs around St Louis to create this team.

Come to think of it I don't recall hearing the Affton National Anthem being played for finishing in first place, over and over again at any of the Advanced AA tournaments. I can understand how all this "winning" might cause an entire program to seek out better competition elsewhere.

Stick to following the crowd, you'd be a complete failure as an insightful leader.

PS Thanks for giving away the secret formula for success. I would of never believed it took 3 paragraphs to say the harder you work the better you can be at anything, including hockey.

I think you meant "except" and not "accept". You should limit yourself to one word answers so as to avoid overexposure.

3:31 You forgot to mention the post about the essays in the WSJ.

That's a good point. LMAO! I love it when these know it all parents come onto network 54 and display their true ignorance. Maybe they haven't read enough of those now famous wall street journal essays. I don't know what it is, but when you don't know the difference between "accept" and "except" you should pretty much keep quiet.

4:14- I feel sorry for you, it appears you believe your own propaganda.

Where are the kids that this great coaching at Affton develops? How come they cannot even make their own top teams?

What is Chesterfield doing that is so right that they have a Twin Bridges, St. Peters and 3 Rockets coaches for their CS teams this upcoming season? I mean if all those coaches from the shitty clubs are driving kids to these two clubs why are they hiring those same coaches?

Sad.

No mention of the Treasure Trove of MILFs in the last 20, or so, posts. What gives?

Affton cracks me up. The ultimate sandbaggers. Play down to win (occassionally) and threaten the kids who want to move up with the good ole blackball. Steal the top kids from the other orgs with their CS monopoly, and then have the audacity to call those clubs "shitty." Someone needs to turn this into a sit com.

Sorry about posting before refreshing the screen, had to leave for a bit to attend a MSHL conference call. I don't think they really understand the situation. They asked if Affton could steal some more kids from other organizations and form a couple of teams as well.



TRUTH IS, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, gotta love Jack.

4:14 What your saying is, and thinking out loud here, your kid wasn't good enough to make AAA, but you needed a higher level of competition than AA. So, by forming an un-districted AA St Louis hockey team in a Chicago league, you were able to solve your problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but because your regular districted AA teams were not good enough to be competitive in the lowly Advanced Tournaments (in the same city), you decided you needed the help of some of the shitty clubs around St Louis to create this team.

Come to think of it I don't recall hearing the Affton National Anthem being played for finishing in first place, over and over again at any of the Advanced AA tournaments. I can understand how all this "winning" might cause an entire program to seek out better competition elsewhere.

Stick to following the crowd, you'd be a complete failure as an insightful leader.

PS Thanks for giving away the secret formula for success. I would of never believed it took 3 paragraphs to say the harder you work the better you can be at anything, including hockey.

What the hell are you rambling about? Are you drunk again?

4:14 said kids succeed DESPITE their shitty clubs. And he is right! You had very little, if anything to do with their success. Now you want to take all the credit for their development and take away all of their options available to get away from you.

That is what is sad.

You folks are missing a key component in this discussion: Identify the migration patterns of the Treasure Troves at the earliest possible time prior to area tryouts and, then, one can begin to piece together a forecast of where the stable of benders will end up. Critical to our efforts is to uncover the hiding places of the top tier MILFs at each birthyear and attempt to get them consolidated to the AAA rosters. Performance and skill on ice should necessarily take a back seat to the optimal environment created by the BEST MILF consolidation initiative. All fat, dumpy, unathletic, 5'8" dads could enjoy said environment while on the road, while spouting their ignorance to the MILF troves in hotel bars and indoor pools. This initiative is tentative and fluid given the lack of predictablilty of MILF identification from season-to-season, given the deterioration tendencies of MILFs. Please contribute to this working paper as you see fit.

Genius, I think the Milf Hunter is onto something here. Who cares about the on ice talent? It’s the off ice talent that is truly key. Milf Hunter, have you been able to identify what clubs have Milf’s with the most “after-market” upgrades to their physique

4:14 - HOW DARE YOU. Do you not know that all kids are developed at LTP and mites and from then on it is all on them. Do you not pay attention to all these N54 threads? players win games, not coaches. Players are NOT developed at CS & AAA. It all starts at clubs other than AAA, Affton & CF before they are ever age eligable.

That is correct. Its about time someone finally figured it out.

10:27 Let me guess, you rode the short bus to school with your hockey helmet on. Read it again a little slower this time, and quit calling A and CF AA programs and coaches shitty for your own sake.

No! You are obviously a hyper-sensitive shitty coach at a shitty club attempting to take false credit for advancing players to levels they achieved through their own hard work and dedication simply because you tied their skates once and setup some cones for them to skate around in your shitty LTP program.

Now quit whining about how unfair the world is to you and do something constructive beyond asking for a handout through rules changes.

If players and their families actually believed you had anything to do with their "development" why would they leave your shitty club? I guess if only the rules were changed to prevent them from leaving or eliminate any external incentive to leave well that would finally be a fair world and they would be forced to stay at your shitty club so you could "develop" them further. Then your son would finally have some decent players who would be forced to play with him. Don't you realize those players who've finally escaped the shitty coaches and their sons at your shitty club to play AAA or CS at Affton or Chesterfield are finally, for the very first time, experiencing the feeling of winning? They are finally experiencing the feeling of playing real hockey. And you think if you could just force them back to your shitty club, your shitty coaches and their kids will finally get to experience winning too?

If local youth hockey is reduced to propping up shitty clubs to allow shitty coaches like you to continue to "develop" shitty players like your son, I'm all in favor of the full destruction of the sport. Let's blow it up NOW!!!

Shhhhhhhh!

Be vawy vawy quiet.

We're huntin' MILFs.

Huuuuuuhh huuuh!

You already did.

It's pretty sad to listen to you rant. The more you say the dunmber you look and the more likely people will see you for what you really are.


Like they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

This thread has veered off course.

Let's give you your way and admit that KW and Rockets are two shitty clubs.

OK, now, why not let them merge into one shitty club? Shouldn't hurt CF or AF for them to go from two separate shitty clubs to one shitty club, should it?

2:48 - why should Affton and Chesterfield support this? Just because you ask and you want to do it? Do you really need Affton and Chesterfield to support this? If so I guess you have some persuading to do. Or maybe you should just give up and continue to cry that the man continues to keep you down.

How does this resolve anything? Won't the shitty clubs be back to bitching and whining about the unfairness of the world in just a few more years? These shitty clubs refuse to look at themselves as the cause for their own problems. They will always continue to blame others for their problems and seek external alleviation from their own self-inflicted symptoms. This proposal only delays the inevitable for a few more years without offering the rest of the local hockey community anything of value.

Those self inflicted symptoms are pretty wicked I hear. I guess self inflicted pain is old school.

I don't bring this to your attention to ridicule you or your message, I just don't want to see misquotes becoming a generational thing in your clan or troupe.

Oh I get it. Anyone who doesn't agree with or appreciate the infant's tantrum must be ignorant. Sounds logical.

2:09

Do you have a fecal addiction or fetish?

If 2:09 really, truly believed any of the ignorant crap he spouts, he would put his name behind his posts. Ignorance is bliss.

Gotta love it when anonymous posters demand identification.

Hey all you MILF obsessed retards (there now that I got your attention).
Would someone please clarify for me what Midwest League they are talking about joining? I could really care less about all the other stuff.

Thanks!

I think they want to join these corn belt powerhouses: http://www.tristatehockey.com

Is anybody 100% sure that the M in MILF doesn't stand for men, and that the MILF hunter is a little light in the loafers?

Now that several have frittered away precious hours of their lives by submitting lengthy and self-serving diatribes--which by the way, nobody reads or cares about--let's get down to business on the proposed MILF/team development strategy. All these teen boys whom the short, dumpy and unathletic dads covet for future stardom potential [AKA future Flo Valley students] misses the key point: How to consolidate MILFs at each birthyear in a tiered system that, based on MILF quality, establishes a legitimate Tier I, II (AA & A), and B House presence; a system that must be perfected in this market to achieve national credibility with our programs. This is just a rough proposal and requires input from all the unathletic and dumpy dads who, for reasons only known to them, believe that somehow their kids wil rise above the genetic void of athletic ability that permeates throughout the family on both sides. Am I the only one who sees this????

Tell us more MILF hunter! Where is the greatest potential for talent development? Is it first time mite level hockey moms from the valley?

Milf Hunter and his cronies are off the MOAM b.o.d.

I will pray that all you (duhhhhh, durrrrrr) milf retards die a horrible death so we can stop seeing this crap on here. This is supposed to be about hockey dumbfu**s.

Alls I want to know is, if CF and A are such strong programs that do such a great job of developing kids, why are so many of the CS players from other clubs. Shouldn't all the kids who were fortunate enough to start their hockey at those clubs be way ahead of all the players at the other crappy programs. You would think the CS programs would be made up of all players from their own organizations. Just wondering.

Yeah you would think people would stay with their programs, but no people say oh CS is a "higher level" i want my kid to play there. Well just because it's a "higher level" doesn't mean the coaches are any better then the ones at your other programs.

I guess you want to get back to discussing the difference between, and effects of, AA districted and non-districted teams and how it will make no difference in the end for %99.9 of theses kids, or do anything to enhance their resume.

Is that the kind of hockey shit you want to talk about?

The battle lines are pretty easy to see here. If you play for A or CF then you are in favor the Central States monopoly. How many national titles do you think Affton would have with only homegrown Affton players?

About the same number as those shitty clubs with their shitty coaches who don't have CS.

Crap Man is making as many showings as Milf Hunter lately. I am going to have to hang a toilet paper roll off my computer to make it through this thread.

Winning doesn't necessarily mean you have a great coach, only accumulated the best players. Have an undistricted team, play in a districted league out of Chicago, win, have a second de facto AAA team win regionals and have some success at nationals (tier II) doesn't mean you have a great program that develops talent or great coaches. Your Bantam coach couldnt get past quarter finals at nationals the last two years once he lost a couple of kids. Great coach or good coach with very good talent? And he had them for three years to " develop" them.

How many cups would Detroit have if all of those Russians and Swedes had understood who really developed them and showed some loyalty and stayed at home?

Hmmm! Let me see... go to Affton or Chesterfield or AAA and have a good shot at a national championship... or stay at home with my club coach that tied my skates in LTP and opened the door for me in mini-mites and therefore has made me the player I am today.

Now I understand why your shitty clubs have such shitty coaches. You all have shit for brains.

Comparing Affton CS to the NHL? very funny.

Are you the "top level tier II players" guy as well?

I am snorting my diet coke through my nose right now, this is good shit.

It all makes sense now. We need to pay kids to play for our shitty clubs like Affton does.

NHL vs. CS the lines get kind of blurry here, can you help me out?

Here's an idea:

Convince all of your players that it is in their best interest to stay home with your shitty club and shitty coaches so that you can continue to "develop" them.

Oh, you can't do that?

Then I would lobby MO Hockey to change some rules, just like the Mite OTT rule, to force them to stay home and play with you whether they like it or not.

Oh, that takes too much work and will piss too many people off?

Then I would lobby MO Hockey to ban CS or at least take away their chance to compete for a national championship. Or find some way to severely punish these terrible clubs that even think of offering ridiculous opportunities for local players to improve themselves and raise their game to new levels with the obvious evil intention of luring players from small, helpless, clubs.

Oh, can't overcome the huge political bloc that stacks the odds against you?

Then I would try bitching and whining anonymously on N54 with the remote hope that someone will pickup the injustices and decide to launch a grassroots campaign to save your shitty club.

It's a done deal!

How about you form a legit Tier II program and leave the rest of STL hockey alone?

Or, how about you actually play in a MO Hockey league in order to be eligible for the MO spot at regional/national tourneys?

or, how about we do away with districting all together?

1:19 Players don't leave their respective organizations to go to Affton because of any cetain coach, they go there because all the best players go there, and if they want a shot at regionals/nationals they have no choice. You could put the coach from PW-Midget from any other rink in charge of Afftons top team at their respective level and players will go there because they have the best chance to win. This is what we tried explaining to the mermis lovers out there, but they just don't get it. Players didn't come to Affton to play for him, they came there because no matter who the coach is, thats their best shot at regionals/nationals.

Oh now I see.

This is really about shitty coaches getting their feelings hurt because they are not perceived to be as good as the CS coaches.

Well that makes much more sense then. I agree let's restructure all of local youth hockey so that coaches don't get their feelings hurt. We can't have that.

1:31 Well stated.

I think you have convinced me about the merits of CS. It really should be about making all of our kids a good as players as they are capable of and this program seems to have it all. If K or the R approached CSDHL, would you offer to put a good word in for us? Maybe let them know that we are ready to take the next step "up" so we can offer our kids a shot at a championship in their home organization rather than yours? Maybe you could attest to the quality of the players and coaches who are on loan from these clubs. I see this as a win win situation. More kids playing CS would be great for all of our kids!

2:33 Since you can't come up with your own original ideas or programs for improving your own players and you cannot make a compelling case for your admission into our CSDHL, and you insist the world is stacked against you, it is probably best that you continue to send your players our way so that we can continue to develop the top kids from around the area for you poor shitty clubs who must find countless ways to force their membership to stay at home otherwise risk losing them to better ideas, better coaching, better clubs.

1:53- i can hear the responses now....

You must be a board member from a shitty club.

Your kid is a bender.

Your kid got cut.

and so on.

These Affton defenders do not ever answer any questions just sling the shit in hopes to distract from any real effort to resolve the issues. Nobody has ever answered what is good about the present system that eliminated so many clubs over the last 10 years and decreased the number of kids that play our sport.

Why do the board members of shitty clubs whose kids are benders that got cut always come to the conclusion that it is the system's fault for all of their own failures and we must overhaul the system to favor and save them or we run the immense risk of losing the shitty club forever as though that would be some tragedy that would threaten the existence of the game?

1:48 - you want to obliterate what's left of all the shitty clubs? Eliminate districting. I'm all in favor of it. It is the only way shitty clubs can hold their members hostage. Decent clubs will attract members regardless of districting or not.

Don’t give me your holier than now CS bullshit that you’re developing your kids into top prospects (top-tier II prospects). You go there to win, it’s basically an STL all-star team. Period. Is it going away? No. Not as long as other cities field teams just like it. Your CS developmental bullshit gets waist deep when you spout off how good you are-when your still playing tier II kids/teams-Not tier I. Most of these kids are developing because their parents fork over half a paycheck for professional instruction away from the team.

Your busy calling all the other clubs shitty because you got into the mushrooms around grants farm

The first 2:45.

Your ice is littered with our compelling case. I just wanted to see if you would be willing to perform some more of your "oral magic" for a good cause. It's pretty evident from your lack of deductive reasoning, and big mouth they are keeping you around for something else. How many "trips" did it take to Chicago to get SP tossed?

Our ice is littered with your kids who have natural ability and who manage to develop themselves with tons of hours at stick and pucks, private lessons, and hard work at home DESPITE having to play all fall and winter with shitty coaches and shitty players at your shitty club. These kids who are ready for something much bigger and better than anything your shitty club or shitty coaches can offer, are these the kids you refer to that make the compelling case for your club to get a CS team? You must be joking right?

You sound like you're getting flustered and it is starting to affect your thinking. How can our kids who fill your CS program be on our ice in the fall and winter while still playing CS?

Do you remember Hitler and the superior race ideology?

This is pretty simple. A lot of kirkwood and rockets kids are on central states rosters.

Affton gave it's blessing to the proposed merger.

Chesterfield opposed it and actually got the vote tabled until the next meeting.

So if these shitty clubs are not doing a lot of contributing to cs rosters, why was chesterfield against it?

These shitty clubs are not doing anything to contribute to the cs rosters, the players that so desperately want to play for someone else other than your shitty clubs are contributing to the cs rosters.

So players show up to your central states tryouts and are good enough to make the central states rosters but the "shitty" clubs they came from did nothing to help them get there. The funniest thing about that is I know you are actually serious in your statement.

Well the shitty coaches did tie their skates for some of them when they were in LTP and open the bench doors for them in the games so I guess I do have to give the shitty clubs some credit for that. My bad. But the stick and pucks, private lessons, holiday camps, summer camps, spring elite teams, pick up games with buddies, dryland and practicing at home, that was all pretty much done by themselves with help from their parents. I'll say about 98% of their development was accomplished on their own. But you're right I do have to give about 2% of the credit to the shitty coaches and the shitty clubs.

In previous falls and winters before they went to CS dope!

You can inlcude chesterfield as one of thise shitty clubs. It is a trainwreck heading off the cliff. We get the best talent from around the area and still can not compete at cs, the majority of the rest of the moan teams suck, regionals was a complete embarassment, board sucks and noboyd sees it or cares. My OTT is already submitted. get out now

11:27- amazing that all that stuff you cite isn't being done by any of your own districted club members. If they did all those things, as you suggest, then I am guessing your club might be able to include a few more of their own in their higher level teams and the need to grab all these players would diminish.

Why do you think your home grown districted members are so lazy and uninspired?

I give Affton and CHA credit though, they put such fear of being blackballed out there that nobody wants to speak up.

11:39 - How does a trainwreck head off a cliff? I don't believe Chesterfield will mind losing anyone who thinks trainwrecks can head off a cliff. Good luck to you and your new club.

I would only hope that if, in fact, the trainwreck ran off a cliff that it didn't involve the Treasure Trove of MILFs. Can anyone report exactly who was involved?

D 10:19

Funny, you call me dope, and I'm not the one having a problem typing what I want to say. I'm not the one having to explain to everybody what it was that I really wanted to say with a second post.

If Dave Garth came over to coach PW CS would that be another shitty coach from another shitty club?

Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know if any of the other people posting messages here think 10:19 is really as dumb as he comes across or is just trying to stir the pot by saying unbelievably stupid "shit".

The real dope is the one calling other clubs "Shitty"

I guess it makes him feel like a big man in spite of what he finds every day when he takes his morning leak.

If the two non-shitty clubs were really so far ahead of all the other shitty programs, there wouldn't be room for any player to make their CS teams from outside of their clubs. They woudd be completely populated by players that were superiorly developed within their own programs.

The MILF guy is a stupid fucking retard, a dumbass, a moron, a dipshit, an asshole, a worthless turd. Please KILL YOURSELF NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spoken like a true non-milf. you must be married to shitty-man.

I think he or she is just saying the whole "milf" thing has been beaten to death on here. Its just getting old, especially on a hockey board. Maybe you milf people can start your own thread, and then people won't have to click on it if they choose not to.

I think the Milf guy is needed for comic relief, otherwise this hockey board has turned into a " noun, verb, and the word shitty"

You fritter away your life on these boards, obsessing over teenaged youth hockey players....and the milf guy should kill himself? How much crack are you smoking daily?

May8 @ 2:11

You want to keep blaming CS for your home clubs problems, but as I stated on another thread, the 3-5 kids that you lose to Central States in each birthyear is not the problem. It is the kids that just drop out of hockey all together or OTT to another club to play at the regular travel level. CS players know that they don't have to OTT, so they aren't doing it and I don't know of a single player that has OTT to one of these clubs in the hopes of making the CS team the following year. It makes no sense since you keep reminding us that most of the CS players are from other clubs. I think the reason that Shitty club guy keeps saying that is because when you do talk to the parents of kids that OTT from other clubs, that is what they will tell you. Most will tell you that they tried to make an effort to get improvements made but were dismissed by their clubs board. So, what are we supposed to believe. These clubs need to quit blaming CS (which it is really just the 2-3 complaining on here)and look to improve their grass roots efforts to get more players on the ice. Parents need to be active at the clubs parents meetings to express their grievances. But if you ever go to one of the parents meetings, you will see what the biggest problem is, there are 15-20 parents from the entire club that attend the meetings. The clubs should embrace and promote the fact that they move players on to higher level teams. This can be used as a positive recruiting tool instead of something to be used to place blame. Advertise. And I don't just mean in the Hockey Stop, I mean in the Post and the Suburban Journals, the local Times. That is were you may pick up new players, the Hockey Stop is going to reach only people that are already involved.

May 10 @ 8:33

I will say this again too. Nobody says that Affton or CF developes better players into the CS programs. The kids from these clubs must make the same comittment that players from other clubs are making in order to make these teams, and as stated by you and others, that is not done at the regular travel team practices, it is done through camps, private instruction, extra work at home and stick and pucks. Dedicated players from all clubs do this. What is said, it that once they are on the Central States teams, they get more developental opportunities that come with being on that team. This is how it should be. They pay higher fees in order to get more ice so they can practice more. In most cases they play a higher level of competition which also helps in their developement. This doesn't always mean that the coaches are better. Hell, I know for a fact that last years CF Bantam Minor team won't tell you how good a coach Al Carter is, but the players on that team that kept improving didn't stop using additional means to improve their skills. They kept doing their camps and instruction and stick and pucks. The ones that didn't probably won't make the team this year.

Finally, I think your attack on CS being the problem is misplaced and you should help your clubs by attending your clubs meetings and suggest some ways to recuit more kids to start playing and come up with some ideas in order for you to keep your players, not from making a CS team, but from dropping out of the sport altogther. I think that is exactly what ST.P and Fairview did last year by joining their new league.

11:06- can you name one league where different rules apply to the same level of club/team?

Can you imagine the NHL or any pro league where member clubs could offer something different, have rules and policies written that pertain just to their offering and then get a 50% chance to represent that league while never playing in it?

IL does the same thing except they let all of their CS teams play in the end of the season tournament to determine their State Champion. Indy, Omaha, Detroit.
And the Central State team does not represent the leauge, they represent the state. So yes, there are plenty of states that have different leagues that play in a play-off to see what team represents their State.

And how are you helping to increase the number of kids playing hockey at your club? Oh yeah, bitching about Central States teams on Network54.

11:38
I guess you won't want this new mergered team allowed to play for the State Championship either if they play in the Midwest Leauge?

Playing in the Midwest league exclusively? Yea, then they shouldn't play as the MO Rep. If they do that in addition to to MOAM league like UPHL then I see no issue.

I have had experience with one child staying at their home club and another going to CS. Here’s what I experienced with the child that tried to stay at their home club.

We stayed with our home club with our first child because it was close to home and we loved the families. This was before St Peters had a CS team (similar to the current environment). Even with the two CS programs, most of our kids/parents made the decision to stay with our home club. But, once we got to Bantam and Midget level, we all regretted not going to Central States. The Mohockey Bantam and Midget programs are forced to compete with the High School/JV and “C” team programs for the few players in the St Louis area. At the Bantam level, the kids are pressured to play for their high school program even though most of the time it is far less competitive than the club AA levels. Most clubs struggle to get enough skaters on the ice for a game at the midget AA level; or some clubs don’t field a team at all at Midget. It is not unusual to go to a midget game and a team has 8 skaters. Some high school coaches don’t want their players involved in the youth hockey program along with high school so the kids are forced to quit playing youth hockey at the bantam level. Another problem is the parents can’t afford to have their child playing both club and high school so even more kids drop out of the club programs. So what you have left is mediocre hockey. It was disheartening.

We did get heavily involved with our club to try to make a difference. To be honest, the hockey board members of these programs focus so much on the bitching and complaining of the mite and squirt parents, they don’t have enough time or energy to build top Bantam and Midget teams. People are so afraid to tell a parent to shut up, go sit in the stands and enjoy your kid’s game. Instead, 5 or 6 people on a board spend all their time fielding emails, phone calls and talking in the lobby for hours with parents that are bitching because little Johnny made a B1 team when “everyone knows” he should have been on the A1 team. So, 5 or 6 board member’s time during August, September and October is monopolized by these wackos. Board members end up spending all their efforts trying to please that 3% that will never be satisfied. Look at the members of your board, how many board members have mite/squirt/peewee level players. If you look at the top ten “problems” that the board members are working on, 10 out of 10 involve problems at the mite/squirt/peewee level. The programs that suffer are the bantam and midget levels.

The focus is in the wrong area. If you build strong bantam and midget programs, the kids will have a reason to stay. People blame the central states programs but that is only 30 kids at each age level. Most of the bantam and midget kids want to stay at their home club, only a few want to spend the extra time and money on CS or AAA. Second, the “C” teams need to go away completely. The club programs can do a far better job of developing the kids than the for-profit “C” organization. Finally, the high school programs need to work with and support the youth programs. There were several instances where a high school coach openly threaten a hockey player when they wanted to play bantam/midget. That coach should get their coaching card pulled for that behavior.

The people that are complaining about the CS programs “stealing” their players will not fully understand the true heart of the problem until their child reaches the bantam/midget level. If the JV/High school programs work in conjunction with the youth programs, you would not have as many kids dropping out of youth hockey after peewee. Those kids would then play four more years of competitive AA hockey and CS would not have an impact on your program.

Thank You for the informative inciteful post. Listen Mite squirt and Peewee board members. Hockey doesn't even get important until Bantam Major or Midget. The AA star mite squirt years go by quickly. If you don't make the bantam,Midget strong at your program chances are the player will quit hockey.

Thank You for the informative inciteful post. Listen Mite squirt and Peewee board members. Hockey doesn't even get important until Bantam Major or Midget. The AA star mite squirt years go by quickly. If you don't make the bantam,Midget teams strong at your program, chances are the player will quit hockey altogether.

What new league did Fairview join?

9:29 and 9:31 we heard you the first time. dumbass.

I'm still not seeing anything of substance as regards our Trove of MILF strategy. Time is running out.

I think the MILFs ought to each have fair tryouts too! They could be separated into cups sizes for intial evals. MILF hunter your right, if a concrete plan isn't in place soon-it will be an opportunity lost for the Kirkwood/Rockets, then the MILF hunter will be back in Granite City and Cahokia looking for a crop.

This is about the time the shitty affton guy enters the message board and says, "Why dont both of you take a gun, put it up to your head and pull the fucking trigger". Is that about right?

Way to encourage the fucked-up-in-the-head "milf" dumbass. If you just ignore the obviously troubled idiot, he'll go away. I mean who really puts that on a hockey board?

Somebody that has to try REAL hard to get some!!

"Playing in the Midwest league exclusively? Yea, then they shouldn't play as the MO Rep."

Isn't this what A/CS and CF/CS do now? Not hard to figure which club you're from.

Really which one?

"Way to encourage the fucked-up-in-the-head "milf" dumbass."

You're clinging to and salivating about a bunch of mites and squirts [to be known in the future as 'dime-a-dozen hockey players' and the MILF guy is a dumbass? Are there mirrors in your home? Glance at one soon and marvel at the short, dumpy, balding, and unathletic portly fellow...........

Yes, milf-guy, you are a dumbass!! We are on here discussing hockey, while you are not. We all know of some "milfs", but we don't feel the need to talk about it on a youth hockey board that kids DO get on. So you may want to come borrow one of those mirrors, and look at yourself, and you'll see why you can only talk about milfs, since none will have anything to do with you.

Merger approved by MoHockey at last night's board meeting.

What ever happened to the playing in this league, is it still going to happen?

I don't think they are going to any further than Missouri. I heard their combined "Delta" teams didn't do too well in their Spring tournaments. Arent the delta teams pretty much going to be the new Rockstars AA team?

I hear d the same rumor. It is hard to get a straight answer ont his. But, that will nto stop a N54 poster from taking a rumor as a fact.