Ok so there are a couple different ways that affton can do this.

1) Declare a team or teams as "recreational". Just like Cavallinis teams, play whoever you want or whoever will play you. Not eligible or any post season tourneys or playoffs.

2) Get MOAM to change the rules and allow clubs to have tier I and tier II teams.

If affton wants to do number one, they can. But why would they? Why not just stay a tier II team where they already have an unfair advantage of bringing their city wide all stars competing against individual asscoiations

Regarding their option number 2. There is no way MOAM would vote on this or let it happen. MOAM has proved by their actions that they think too much emphasis is placed on better players and MOAM has made an effort to put their focus on the lower level players.

But the bigger question to me is WHY would affton want to do this? Their tier II teams already play lots of tier I competition.

Their tier II teams have pretty good success.

I felt like I just watched somebody have a conversation with themselves.

And lost his own argument!

First, do some research. USA Hockey won't allow tier I and tier II in the same organization. You need to go back again and argue with yourself about two different options.

Well then how come compuware and dallas ice jets have both tier I and tier II teams?

2:42

Another blow hard that does not know what he is talking about yet pipes in as an expert.

A lot of clubs have Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams, Carolina jr Hurricanes come to mind. Most Canadian organizations do too.
Its obvious that players are really just starting to develope at the puberty years,The extra ice practice/games that Tier 1 teams get really helps develope players. Limiting the whole St. Louis area to 19 or 20 players at the Midget Minor level was good at 1 time but the numbers of players that want to pay for the experience and developement has increased.
The old option {1 tier 1 team} basically pushes players out of hockey at the premium developement years.

agree,

always felt like 2 tier one teams at midgets was a good idea; eliminate central states and have 2 competitive tier one teams were kids who want to and heve the talent for juniors can showcase what they've got.

Um, there are 2 Tier I teams at the Midget level, the Blues and the Selects. You'd have a hard time fielding 3 competitive teams at any birth year. What's wrong with having a couple of consistent national powerhouses at the Tier II level as well? All I'm hearing is that it's a waste of money to play AAA because all of them are benders and will be playing in the beer leagues soon enough and the scouts don't watch their games anyway.

I think the selects is recreational team that plays some AAA teams.

there is only one AAA team in town, the other is a rec team per Missouri Hockey

So the Afton wants to go tier one. That whisper has been circulating for some time. So who do they play? What would the cost be? Since CS seems to be on the downturn makes sense, however what happens to Chesterfield? Many questions.

Will they upgrade coaching across the board? Looks as though SH and company are searching for ways to justify a meaningless national tournament. Not sure why MOAM allows open district teams to compete (CSDHL) with local AA clubs. Talk about unfair advantage.

A related question would be what would happen to local clubs if CS was eliminated all together? No need for mergers and local clubs can stay healthy and vibrant without top talent picked away who end up competing for state championship against their own clubs anyway.

Tough questions.

It is not USA hockey that prevents organizations from having both Tier I and Tier II it is MOHOCKEY.

http://www.mohockeyyd.org/PDF/Missouri%20Hockey%20Youth%20Division%20Rules.pdf

Missouri Hockey Youth Division Rules & Policies (updated 11/1/2009)

Section H

B) A Tier I Organization shall not be a part of, or affiliated with a Tier II Organization

rec by title only. they play AAA competition

Section K - Recreational Teams

D) Recreation Team Eligibility

2) Competition Against Tier I Teams - Any team registered as a Recreation Team in Missouri Hockey cannot pay in any game against any team registered as a Tier I team or enter any tournament classified or registered as Tier I.

Exactly.....registered with MO Hockey...Tier I hockey is not affiliated

even if they could do compete at Tier 1 it would be a huge mistake. Look at the 97 team, one of the best tier II teams in the country at it's age level, gets handled by TI, who is a mediocre at best AAA team. I know that there are people at Affton that think that their team can compete with the Amatuer Blues but there is no way. On a good day they'd lose by 5 or 6, on a bad day it would be double digits.

AAA next year or not? would be interested in trying out if it was for AAA.

Why must we keep re-hashing this. They can't be Tier I, sorry. If you want the rules to change, get elected onto the Missouri Hockey Youth board.

So you still want a third team to compete for the same kids as the Blues and the Selects. Hasn't anybody learned anything from the Cav's experiment. Not enough talent in St. Louis to field 2 teams and you want a third. Can you imagine a team less talented then the Cav's trying to compete at AAA. Give me a break.

This must be headed up by some all inclusive commie liberals who won't let kids fail even if they can't cut it. Everyone has to be special....

Is this a done deal or just more speculation?

even if they could do compete at Tier 1 it would be a huge mistake. Look at the 97 team, one of the best tier II teams in the country at it's age level, gets handled by TI, who is a mediocre at best AAA team. I know that there are people at Affton that think that their team can compete with the Amatuer Blues but there is no way. On a good day they'd lose by 5 or 6, on a bad day it would be double digits

The 97 Affton team lost 3-1 to the Blues with an empty net goal. Thats the level they should compete at.If they had a tier 1 tryout they would get a couple of more AAA quality players either from the other Central staes team or disgrutled Blues players{S]. The mistake is only that the younger players will not get the icetime that players from Detroit,Chicago and other AAA organizations get. I've seen the best players in the country at many levels and they are mostly a product of the extra ice time at an early age.

Anyone who saw that game between the 97 AAA team and Affton knows the true story. Affton has the best goalie at the 97 age level and he played that way in the game. Yes, the score was 3-1, and the 3 did include an ENG, but the shots were something like 48-10. If not for goaltending, it would have been an 8-1 or 9-1 game.

Yes, Affton does have 2 or 3 kids, the goalie being one of them, that could make the AAA team, but that doesn't mean that there should be a second AAA team at that level. It wouldn't work.

The St Louis Blues are ranked at the top at almost every birth year. They have tremendous teams

Why cant there be another team in town like Affton. Common sense would tell you that they could at least compete which is all you truly want. It will produce more and more players by the time they are Midgets that have a chance to go on.

How did Affton 97s do against the rest of the AAA Thanksgiving teams. I understand earlier posters comments about game against Blues.

The Affton squad went 1-4-1 in the tournament. The affton squad is a an exceptional tier II team. They would be an average tier I squad. Previous guy has it right, no need to go tier I.

Afton Tier I - WII NOT HAPPEN. Talk to the board. WONT HAPPEN

There are are only three people that keep talking about Affton going AAA and they are talking to themselves and aren't even from Affton.

Why can't it happen.

Chicago has 4 organizations. If you build it they will come.

We live in America. Give kids a second option other than AAA Blues.

Why should only 14-15 skaters get the opportunity to play AAA.

It is about development and not wins and losses. Central States with Affton has run its course. Time to develop something with higher competition.

As time passes, plans for development need to be changed too.

Really it's 10 skaters at AAA plus 4 or 5 with the connections to make the team.

7:52

Why just have two AAA teams? Why not have 9 or 10 for every age group? Why not just have every team as a AAA team? That would give maximum development to the most kids, right? Everyone should just be AAA.

7:52 Tell everybody that your kid is part of the AAA farm system. I think this will suffice for your ego trip at least for a while.

Talent and ability does not exist. Wasting your time.

WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!
WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!

Get it?

We need to just dump central states build strong AA teams and tear up the best tournaments you can get into. Quit having kids jump ship to try to go play for the strongest teams in the league. Lets keep all the kids where they should be playing in their own org. with their friends. The parents need to get off thier high horses thinking their little Johnnie has to play for a cs team because they need to have self gratification for themselves.

we already have an alternate to the aaa blues with the selects. we simply don't have the player base for three teams. people were bitching about having two, how can you fathom having another. have them stay central states and then when players get good enough they filter into the one of the aaa teams.

Judging on how the U16 selects are doing, I would argue we dont have the talent base for two AAA teams......

YYYYYY
EEEEEE
SSSSSS


IIIIII
TTTTTT


WWWWWW
IIIIII
LLLLLL
LLLLLL

Rules change and Affton carries a lot out clout.

You can't judge the second AAA team based on the Selects. They picked the team based off of one criteria and one alone....money. The ability and willingness to pay. That is why the team is terrible. There are 8 kids that don't belong playing A1 hockey much AAA hockey. Affton will get a AAA team and will take their share of lumps at the beginning, but it is going to happen.

NOT going to happen. Mo hockey already feels like the small minority of "elite" players dictates how the vast majority of just playing for fun players operate.

The rules will NOT be changed to allow affton to have tier I teams. If you want to have independent teams because of "your" huge talent base, then go for it.

Having a tier I team at affton will NOT happen.

Afton, go play the Selects and see how you do & maybe we can replace them with your team in that North American AA development league.

MoHockey doesn't "feel", Mo Hockey is a group of people not one singular voice-its made up of individual which can be swayed with persuasive arguements.

How would Affton having Tier I teams, effect the lower levels of STL hockey? Keep in mind, Central States is probably going to belly up and Affton sees the writing on the wall.

Selects will field teams at every level, bad or good, as long as there are people to pay.

What makes you think the clubs will allow affton to have Tier I? The other clubs hate central states and affton because affton locked them out. Why would they give affton the upper hand again?

Affton is the best Tier II program...not only in St. Louis, but including Chicago. Additionally,
as organizations go, there is not a "better" AA or Tier II program in Wisconsin or Michigan.

Affton does a great job, they should be proud and celebrate when players move on to AAA.

Top to bottom, best program. Historically, awesome. Why mess with it. Recognize your niche',
and you'll do well.

so. We have the plate from last year.

No, next year Selects will field a Bantam team and a Squirt Tier 1 team plus their Midgets.

Affton already has the upper hand. Letting them go tier 1 benefits the other clubs in 3 ways: 1. Takes the Affton CS All Star teams out of the field for Nationals, giving the club AA teams a real chance to represent Missouri 2. Affton offering tier 1 will further weaken Chesty CS as even more kids choose affton - Demise of CS would be iminent 3. Having an additional tier 1 club eliminates the vacuum attempting to be filled by the Cavs. Selects will die and those kids will be back with their clubs.

As for Selects tier 1 squirts next year??? Won't happen or if it does will be a joke. Kids from spring last year are in the valley for good.

There is no demise of central states.Affton and Chesterfield will be in that league as long as it is around.Why would either get out of it. They are city wide all star teams playing against individual clubs and getting good kids from all the other associations. Despite what you think, central states is not broke from the perspective of money and this is what it is all about.

If you guys want to pay for an indy team, knock yourself out. If you think mohockey is changing the rules to allow tier I at affton, I got some primo swampland for sale for you.

2:16...

So other clubs will benefit from affton having a tier I team in three ways. Now that is funny..

So you think affton is going to tier I and will not have any of their 7 central states teams? So you think affton just goes tier I and forgets about all the kids they are attracting at tier II?

The vacum being attempted to be filled by the cavallinis? That is another freaking hilarious idea. Now give me the crap about how the cavallini's are only for rich people and several better players were left off the u16 team. Another funny idea.

They are city wide all star teams BUT Chicago team have kids from every different club on their teams too. It's all about recruiting here and in the windy city. You make it sound like up in Chicago the kids are districted to their zip code, they are not.

No they are not. But when your kid starts playing you must declare your club. Then you can move once after that. Much more restrictive that when you choose your move after your initial club, you can not play for another tier II club. We have city wide all star teams at tier II where you can play for affton one year and cha the next and go back to affton after that. Rules are slanted in our favor. Plain and simple.

Well I know from talking to Chicago Blues, Bruins and Leafs parents and coaches that there is kids that played for Blues last year and went to the bruins this year and that's at the Bantam, PW and Squirt level. I'll be honest I have no clue what the actual rules are up there I thought it would be the same for all CS teams.

This is all great discussion, it would be great to have the talent to fill 2 or 3 AAA clubs. The fact is that we can barely fill one. I am not talking about 1 or 2 teams, but a AAA club that can field 6 or 7 teams. We still only have approximately 5,000 kids playing at all levels in St Louis. Chicago and Detroit have that covered just with their mini-mite and mite programs. Until we get more kids playing hockey in St. Louis, I don't see us being able to support another (quality) AAA club from Squirt to Midgets.

9:14

Exactly, those kids who moved and are playing for new teams can not move again and play for any other tier II team. So, their second move is a big one. Agreed with the next poster, we do not have enough numbers for two AAA teams. But some parents who disagree might buck up and do it anyway.

9:14--you do not have no clue on how it works up there and thanks for fessing up to that. One of the problems with youth hockey is people having no idea on how things work yet thinking they can decide on how things should be done.

You "assume" that things must be the same since the teams play in the same league. Now you want to tell us that these teams should be formed based on other lack of understanding you have. Until you get some knowledge on how things actually work, just drop your little fella off at the rink and pick him up and enjoy watching the game.

Supply and demand.

Why not have multiple AAA teams. It is not about the winning but about exposing kids to the highest level hockey.

Brilliant statement. If people want it, why not have 5 or 6 AAA teams per birth year. Have a house level team play AAA, why not Huh?

We get two choices for the clubs. For example my son has played at the same tier two club since mites. He still has one choice left and he can go to another club. If he does that it will be his secound choice. At that point he will have no choices left. He could not go to another different club, but he could return to his original club. If you float in and out of AAA it does not count toward the two choice rule. So basically it protects AAA in their insane desire for your dollars.

8:05 are you talking about mohockey or illinois? for mohockey you don't actually have the first choice you describe. It is based purely on zip codes (with a few exceptions). So the club you have been at since mites wasn't really a "choice", you were required to play there based on your zip code.

8:05 if from Chicago and talking about how it works up there. Illustrating that their central states teams are not city wide all star teams like ours.

yes it's from Chicago. In any given year there are always a number of kids who try to get a choice back. Usually it doesn't work and they are forced to return to one of their two clubs. The only case is if one of their two previous clubs doesn't offer a team at their level. It becomes quite a hassel to get back a choice. Personnaly, I find it a little funny watching the precieved best players running from club to club in search of that special team or chasing after the special coach.

In St. Louis it's a little different. You have parents chasing coaches with their noses pressed firmly in the coaches ass. Visit St. Louis and observe the "ass fest" which is AAA Blues tryouts for PeeWee and Bantam.

Is it only one ass to kiss per age group?

Ys, I am sure there is not any ass kissing going on in Chicago. Duhhhhhhh. Ass kissing is something unique to st louis.

That ass kissing at bantams and peewees sure seems to be working out however....

95 Bantam Major ranked 9th in the country..
96 Bantam Minor ranked 2nd in the country..
97 PW Major ranked 5th in the country...
98 PW Minor ranked 1st in the country.....


Those mean ole Blues alumni sure know who to let kiss their ass don't they!!!!

After losing to a team averaging 5.6 goals against per game this past weekend, I wouldn't put too much stock into Affton going Tier 1.

Never said the ass kissing got a spot on a team for ones kid. Just a hoot to watch the parents going at it. Not only with the coach, but the evaluators and even the parents from the previous year.

What ass kissing during tryouts?

Say it ain't so!

What is ass kissing? You see parents and coaches you have not seen for a few months and you say hi and socialize? Guess that is butt kissing in your book. Whatever the system is, it is working very nicely.