(This one probably from a Klinton-supporter...)

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Subject:
Re: Chesty Puller
Date:
Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:44:38 EDT

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I came across your website accidentally. I was in the Army in
Viet Nam and
have become a sort of student of W.W.II as I had so many uncles
in it.

I think Chesty Puller was a complete psycho and sorry
son-of-a-bitch that
should have been busted and thrown out of the Marines after
Pelileu. I
agreed with Marine General Geiger that you can't take an
objective with dead
Marines. Chesty Puller wasted Marines lives for no good reason.
One case I
remember hearing about was a company commander calling in to
headquarters
after trying to take a hill and being attacked by a superior
Japanese force.
It was close combat and hand to hand sometimes and in the
morning the C.O.
called in reported they were wiped out except for 13 Marines
still living and
asking what they should do to which Puller told the commander
personally
"you're still alive Goddamit aren't you, then attack."

regards,
Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Garland, Texas

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Date:
Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:41:18 -0700

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Well sir I can tell from your e-mail, you know nothing about being a
Marine.....Unlike the Army we don't always think of our own asses....Like the
sweethearts who just that surrendered without firing a shot and got Purple
Hearts for getting beat up....I do not mean to say that there are not Brave and
resourceful people in the Army but, you aint one of them,Marines are born not
made, the training is just to sharpen them to a fine edge.....Ask the Heavy
Champ Ritic Bow(whatever) it could not even handle Marine Boot camp....Of
course in the Army...he would have gotten out of boot camp a General....
You sir have not earned the right to say anything to any Man
that wears the Eagle Globe and Anchor.

Death Before Dishonor
Raymond 'MIKE" Clausen, Jr._MOH_31 Jan '70
POB 991 Ponchatoula, LA. 70454
504-386-6027
MOHbstrmc@i-55.com


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Subject:
Re:
Date:
Sat, 8 Jul 2000 01:14:28 EDT

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ONCE A MARINE... ALWAYS A MARINE!!!!

THE TRAITORS ARE THE LAWYER SCOUNDRELS!!!!

COOK THE LAWYERS WELL DONE, AND SEND THEM
BACK TO HELL WHERE THEY BELONG!!!!

A Dios,
Manny Zayas
U.S.M.C. 1976-1988

In a message dated 7/7/00 11:44:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mohbstrmc@i-55.com writes:

<< Well sir I can tell from your e-mail, you know nothing about
being a
Marine.....Unlike the Army we don't always think of our own
asses....Like the
sweethearts who just that surrendered without firing a shot and
got Purple
Hearts for getting beat up....I do not mean to say that there
are not Brave
and resourceful people in the Army but, you aint one of
them,Marines are born
not made, the training is just to sharpen them to a fine
edge.....Ask the
Heavy Champ Ritic Bow(whatever) it could not even handle Marine
Boot
camp....Of course in the Army...he would have gotten out of boot
camp a
General....
You sir have not earned the right to say anything to any Man
that wears the
Eagle Globe and Anchor.

Death Before Dishonor
Raymond 'MIKE" Clausen, Jr._MOH_31 Jan '70
POB 991 Ponchatoula, LA. 70454
504-386-6027
MOHbstrmc@i-55.com


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>>

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Date:
Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:42:43 -0400

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==============
Gunny:

Mr. Garwitz, has steped in some DEEP do-do! Mr. Garwitz dosen't
seem to
understand that at one time the objective of warfare was to
WIN... TO
DEFEAT THE ENEMY... not tread water!!!

I never had the privilege of serving in combat, under "Chesty"
Puller
However, I was a young 18 year old PFC, with H&S Co., 1st Bn,
10th Marines,
when Chesty became CG of the 2nd MarDiv. Col. Chase, who you
will see on
this list, was a Captain and my Bn S-3 officer at the time.
Many, many
members of the Battalion were former members of 2nd Bn, 11th
Marines and
had served under Puller at the Chosen Resivor, including all 1st
Sgts and
the SgtMajor "big Red" Ebert. Capt. Blaz (later General Blaz)
was
"C" Battery commander with 1/10. Frankly I don't know didely
squat about the Pelileu operation, without refference books
(which are now
at my other house).

But I can tell you this Mac, there ain't been a Marine every
born, that
wouldn't have followed Chesty Puller straight into HELL and
kicked the crap
out of the devil himself!

I don't know for sure, but I believe Col. Chase may have served
under
Puller in Korea.

Col. Chase, your comments PLEASE?


Anyothers who may have served or known those to have served
under
Chesty Puller, PLEASE comment.

Semper fi;
David J. Lindstedt Sr.
former Sgt(both E4 & E5) USMC 1953-1965
MSG US Army Reserve (retired)

PS: As a former Marine Corps history instructor with the 2nd
FSR GMST
school 1960-61, LTC Richard B. Taylor USMC (ret) then Capt. CO.,
as I recall
The US Marine corps did not have or teach DEFFENSIVE COMBAT
prior to 1956.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.



----Original Message Follows----
From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
To: GunnyG@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Chesty Puller
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:44:38 EDT

I came across your website accidentally. I was in the Army in
Viet Nam and
have become a sort of student of W.W.II as I had so many uncles
in it.

I think Chesty Puller was a complete psycho and sorry
son-of-a-bitch that
should have been busted and thrown out of the Marines after
Pelileu. I
agreed with Marine General Geiger that you can't take an
objective with dead
Marines. Chesty Puller wasted Marines lives for no good reason.
One case I
remember hearing about was a company commander calling in to
headquarters
after trying to take a hill and being attacked by a superior
Japanese force.
It was close combat and hand to hand sometimes and in the
morning the C.O.
called in reported they were wiped out except for 13 Marines
still living
and
asking what they should do to which Puller told the commander
personally
"you're still alive Goddamit aren't you, then attack."

regards,
Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Garland, Texas

From:
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Subject:
Re: Chesty Puller
Date:
Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:04:17 EDT

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THEY SAY THAT IN THE MARINE CORE....
THE WOMEN ARE MIGHTY FINE......

THEY LOOK LIKE PHILYS DILLER.....
AND WALK LIKE FRANKENSTEIN!!!!!!!!

Hey Leathernecks,
Lets do some ordinance disposals on LAWYERS!!!!

Semper Fi,
Manny Zayas
"Jarhead at Large"

In a message dated 7/7/00 10:46:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
73422.1726@compuserve.com writes:

<< ==============
Gunny:

Mr. Garwitz, has steped in some DEEP do-do! Mr. Garwitz
dosen't seem to
understand that at one time the objective of warfare was to
WIN... TO
DEFEAT THE ENEMY... not tread water!!!

I never had the privilege of serving in combat, under "Chesty"
Puller
However, I was a young 18 year old PFC, with H&S Co., 1st Bn,
10th Marines,
when Chesty became CG of the 2nd MarDiv. Col. Chase, who you
will see on
this list, was a Captain and my Bn S-3 officer at the time.
Many, many
members of the Battalion were former members of 2nd Bn, 11th
Marines and
had served under Puller at the Chosen Resivor, including all
1st Sgts and
the SgtMajor "big Red" Ebert. Capt. Blaz (later General Blaz)
was
"C" Battery commander with 1/10. Frankly I don't know didely
squat about the Pelileu operation, without refference books
(which are now
at my other house).

But I can tell you this Mac, there ain't been a Marine every
born, that
wouldn't have followed Chesty Puller straight into HELL and
kicked the crap
out of the devil himself!

I don't know for sure, but I believe Col. Chase may have served
under
Puller in Korea.

Col. Chase, your comments PLEASE?


Anyothers who may have served or known those to have served
under
Chesty Puller, PLEASE comment.

Semper fi;
David J. Lindstedt Sr.
former Sgt(both E4 & E5) USMC 1953-1965
MSG US Army Reserve (retired)

PS: As a former Marine Corps history instructor with the 2nd
FSR GMST
school 1960-61, LTC Richard B. Taylor USMC (ret) then Capt.
CO., as I recall
The US Marine corps did not have or teach DEFFENSIVE COMBAT
prior to 1956.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.



----Original Message Follows----
From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
To: GunnyG@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Chesty Puller
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:44:38 EDT

I came across your website accidentally. I was in the Army in
Viet Nam and
have become a sort of student of W.W.II as I had so many uncles
in it.

I think Chesty Puller was a complete psycho and sorry
son-of-a-bitch that
should have been busted and thrown out of the Marines after
Pelileu. I
agreed with Marine General Geiger that you can't take an
objective with dead
Marines. Chesty Puller wasted Marines lives for no good
reason. One case I
remember hearing about was a company commander calling in to
headquarters
after trying to take a hill and being attacked by a superior
Japanese force.
It was close combat and hand to hand sometimes and in the
morning the C.O.
called in reported they were wiped out except for 13 Marines
still living
and
asking what they should do to which Puller told the commander
personally
"you're still alive Goddamit aren't you, then attack."

regards,
Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Garland, Texas

From:
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To:
gunnyg@hotmail.com Save Address
Subject:
Re: Chesty Puller
Date:
Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:25:05 EDT

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STORIES ARE WILD GUNNY EXPECIALLY IF YOU CAM FROM VET NAM SOME
OF THOSE
GOLDBRIKS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE. I HAVE TO CHECK SOME DATES
THIS MIGHT BE
JUST SOME BULL.
GUNG HO
MAC

From:
Bill Monks <bmonks9@Bellatlantic.net> Save Address - Block Sender
To:
Richard Gaines <gunnyg@hotmail.com> Save Address
Subject:
Chesty Puller
Date:
Sat, 08 Jul 2000 06:19:45 -0400

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Hi Gunny
Typical army guy. He doesn't know what 13 Marines can do. What
do you
say
we hang the s.o.b. for criticizing old Chesty Puller.
Bill

Attachment: vcard.vcf (230b) -- View Attachment

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"Tom Dowlearn" <tdowlearn@axs4u.net>
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Subject:
Garwitz
Date:
Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:47:54 -0500

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This guy probably thinks Mac Arthur was a great man and
should look
to the people that put Chesty on that lousy island for his sons
of bitches.
Puller was frustrated from incapacitation from a serious wound
that kept him
in a command post with piss poor communications. Sure, Bloody
Nose Ridge
was a terrible cost and blunder and the Army command under Dug
Out Doug may
have tried to starve them out but none of the people I have
talked to that
were there ever called him a SOB. Most were angry because they
had suffered
terrible casualties in repeated assaults but when it was nearly
taken a new
outfit had the honor of taking it. The grunts weren't usually
critical of
him but many officers were as he used up company and platoon
commanders.
This was a subject of much conversation in my time with many
veterans from
the Canal through Okinawa. I can't believe his uncles would
agree with him
and PI would be a bad place to visit or a USMC reunion.
Tom

http://www.peleliu.net/Battle/Battle.htm

IDLE CHATTER & HEARSAY GOSSIP WITHOUT SCHOLARLY BASIS.

your response.
But I doubt if there were that many scholars among the KIA/WIA on Peleliu.
This "discussion" is not about, as I see it, name-calling, individual opinions, etc, but it goes to the core of the basic difference between Army and Marine Corps leadership, attitude, tactics, etc.
Dick G

I to am Viet Nam Vet, 1st Marine Division. I have a brother who was in the army, 101st 68-69. He would never have said the BS you have said about A Warrior, Lewis Puller. I have had long talks with Al jr, we were both in Nam at the same time and I had to leave country early. I respect my brother and the Combat Vets that served in the Nam. You son are a Puke. You have no Idea what you are talking about and I told my Brother on time,
when we were kidding around," My tour in Bootcamp, was tougher than your tour in Nam". Al agreed.
Ship out BOY!
SF Jose

From:
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To:
"Jerry Brown (USMC)" <oldbreed@aol.com>, "Col. Harlan Chase (USMC"
<halchase@aol.com>, Semper fi Dave <73422.1726@compuserve.com>, GySgt Richard
Gaines <gunnyg@hotmail.com>, "Jerry Garrison (USMC)" <JERGAR1@aol.com>, JO
<joalaska@ptialaska.net>, "Raymond \"Mike\" Clausen, Jr._MOH" <mohbstrmc@i-55.com>,
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\"Doc\" Young" <dyoung@televar.com>, "ZOBOLI (judicial)" <ZOBOLI@aol.com>, Dennis
Garwitz <NJGarwitz@aol.com> Save Address
Subject:
Re: The Patriot & Chesty Puller
Date:
Sat, 8 Jul 2000 16:58:06 -0400


Wanted to share this with all you "jarheads" and Mr. Garwitz.
It just may
give him a little insight in to "Chesty" Puller.

OH, one thing Mr. Garwitz, in the Marine corps, unlike the Army,
it is a
rare occasion when a PFC has personal contact with a Lt. much
less
a GENERAL!

Semper fi;
Dave

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From: "Raymond \"Mike\" Clausen, Jr._MOH",
INTERNET:mohbstrmc@i-55.com
To: "David Lindstedt", 73422,1726

Date: 7/8/00 12:23 AM

RE: Re: The Patriot



Semper Fi My Man...you actually shook Chesty's Hand and he was
on your
side....Damn that is great....I am sure that at least one of
his 5 Navy
Crosses had to be an MOH, but everyone disliking him in
Washington did not
help him even a little.....I am guessing that you knew that
Chesty and Patton were cousin....it ran in both there bodies,
the blood of
Heroes that did not give a ****, but to get the job done.....

Death Before Dishonor
Raymond 'MIKE" Clausen, Jr._MOH_31 Jan '70
POB 991 Ponchatoula, LA. 70454
504-386-6027


> Mike as an actor looking to eat and work in Hollywood, that
may have been a
> statement for the
> media and industry. While, I don't agree with his gun stand.
Braveheart &
> The Patriot are the two
> best production movies since John Wayne and "Sand of Iwo
Jima". John
> Stryker and Chesty Puller
> (my CG with the 2ndMarDiv in 1955) what a pair, back in the
"old corps".
>
> Semper fi;
> Dave
>
> PS: I was a young 18 year old PFC when "Chesty" took command.
It was in
> the winter and the uniform of the day was "greens" with
gloves. So they
> have a parade and a CG's inspection on his taking command.
Some sob stole
> my gloves so the day before the inspection I run to clothing
sales only to
> fined the on gloves available is double extra large. So I buy
a pair.
> Chesty comes down the line I come to inspection arms (we had
M1 Garands)
> and my damn hand misses the opperating rod handle. I turned
red, Chesty
> stops, comes to me and sticks his hand in my glove. Chesty
says "I didn't
> know we had elephants in the Marine corps. Son, where did you
get these
> gloves? I said in a small sqeaky voice "at clothing sale,
Sir" He said
> "You go back there tomorrow and tell them, I SAID, they damn
sure better
> have a pair in your size! SgtMajor give this man my phone
number! If you
> don't get the right size gloves, YOU CALL ME!" Next day when
I got to
> clothing sales they were waiting for me. Needless to say I
got the right
> size gloves.
>
> I didn't wash that hand for a month.
>


Re: Fwd: Re: Chesty Puller

==============
Gunny:

Mr. Garwitz, has steped in some DEEP do-do! Mr. Garwitz dosen't
seem to
understand that at one time the objective of warfare was to
WIN... TO
DEFEAT THE ENEMY... not tread water!!!

I never had the privilege of serving in combat, under "Chesty"
Puller
However, I was a young 18 year old PFC, with H&S Co., 1st Bn,
10th Marines,
when Chesty became CG of the 2nd MarDiv. Col. Chase, who you
will see on
this list, was a Captain and my Bn S-3 officer at the time.
Many, many
members of the Battalion were former members of 2nd Bn, 11th
Marines and
had served under Puller at the Chosen Resivor, including all 1st
Sgts and
the SgtMajor "big Red" Ebert. Capt. Blaz (later General Blaz)
was
"C" Battery commander with 1/10. Frankly I don't know didely
squat about the Pelileu operation, without refference books
(which are now
at my other house).

But I can tell you this Mac, there ain't been a Marine every
born, that
wouldn't have followed Chesty Puller straight into HELL and
kicked the crap
out of the devil himself!

I don't know for sure, but I believe Col. Chase may have served
under
Puller in Korea.

Col. Chase, your comments PLEASE?


Anyothers who may have served or known those to have served
under
Chesty Puller, PLEASE comment.

Semper fi;
David J. Lindstedt Sr.
former Sgt(both E4 & E5) USMC 1953-1965
MSG US Army Reserve (retired)

PS: As a former Marine Corps history instructor with the 2nd
FSR GMST
school 1960-61, LTC Richard B. Taylor USMC (ret) then Capt. CO.,
as I recall
The US Marine corps did not have or teach DEFFENSIVE COMBAT
prior to 1956.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

=============
Dennis Garwitz wrote:

----Original Message Follows----
From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
To: GunnyG@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Chesty Puller
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:44:38 EDT

I came across your website accidentally. I was in the Army in
Viet Nam and
have become a sort of student of W.W.II as I had so many uncles
in it.

I think Chesty Puller was a complete psycho and sorry
son-of-a-bitch that
should have been busted and thrown out of the Marines after
Pelileu. I
agreed with Marine General Geiger that you can't take an
objective with dead
Marines. Chesty Puller wasted Marines lives for no good reason.
One case I
remember hearing about was a company commander calling in to
headquarters
after trying to take a hill and being attacked by a superior
Japanese force.
It was close combat and hand to hand sometimes and in the
morning the C.O.
called in reported they were wiped out except for 13 Marines
still living
and
asking what they should do to which Puller told the commander
personally
"you're still alive Goddamit aren't you, then attack."

regards,
Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Garland, Texas

________________________________________________________________________

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From:
"scott lowry" <lowryscott@hotmail.com> Save Address - Block Sender
To:
GunnyG@HotMail.Com Save Address
Subject:
Re: [GyGsHumour] Fwd: Re: Chesty Puller
Date:
Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:42:15 EDT

Gunny G:
Please forward for me: I can't seem to get it to the right place.

To: Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Sorry to hear you served in the Army in Vietnam. Directly to the point: you
really need to study the entire career of Chesty Puller before you make such
a rash judgement. In the case of Pelilieu, he didn't have any options: he
had NO discretionary orders: therefore he had to complete his mission as
directed. Look at the maps of the operation and then study what support was
available in his area. Not exactly the same as the other 2 Regiments were
facing, now was it? He was a hard commander who got the job done: perhaps
not always the easy way, but then when was combat easy? Look at his
operations at Chosin during the Korean war and his performance prior to
Pelilieu. A completely different picture.
GySgt JS Lowry, USMCR (ret)





Subject: [GyGsHumour] Fwd: Re: Chesty Puller
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 21:21:12 EDT

----Original Message Follows----
From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
To: GunnyG@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Chesty Puller
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:44:38 EDT

I came across your website accidentally. I was in the Army in Viet Nam
and
have become a sort of student of W.W.II as I had so many uncles in it.

I think Chesty Puller was a complete psycho and sorry son-of-a-bitch
that
should have been busted and thrown out of the Marines after Pelileu. I
agreed with Marine General Geiger that you can't take an objective with
dead
Marines. Chesty Puller wasted Marines lives for no good reason. One
case I
remember hearing about was a company commander calling in to
headquarters
after trying to take a hill and being attacked by a superior Japanese
force.
It was close combat and hand to hand sometimes and in the morning the
C.O.
called in reported they were wiped out except for 13 Marines still
living
and
asking what they should do to which Puller told the commander personally

"you're still alive Goddamit aren't you, then attack."

regards,
Dennis Garwitz Sr.
Garland, Texas

________________________________________________________________________

I served under Chesty F-2-1 from Pendleton July 1950 to Inchon to Masan to Guerilla Hunt to the end of Operation Killer March 1951.
He was a Marine.

There are only two groups of people that know U.S. Marines:
1. U.S. Marines
and
2. The enemy.

Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
Any questions, Garwitz?

Jim Baxter
Sgt. USMC WW II & Korea

From:
David Lindstedt <73422.1726@compuserve.com> Save Address - Block Sender
To:
"Richard Gaines" <gunnyg@hotmail.com> Save Address
Subject:
Update: Chesty Puller, SOB, Psycho, etc....
Date:
Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:06:48 -0400


Dick:

All Army infantry tactics include a "secondary position" and a
"retrograde
line of movement"....
in other words A LINE OF RETREAT.

#2 Big army bo-bo is the 8 man squad! Fire teams are almost
non-existant
and where individuals understand the concept, they are
non-functional.
Compounded with a lousy chain of command. Every field grade
officer wants
to play squad leader.

It is a wounder they ever won any battles. They were amazed
that I could
read a map!

Semper fi;
Dave

From:
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To:
NJGarwitz@aol.com Save Address
CC:
GunnyG@HotMail.Com Save Address
Subject:
re: your message
Date:
Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:28:37 EDT

Dennis,
I understand where you may have gotten your perception of Puller from
this battle alone. However, were you aware that NO maps of Pelileau were
even close to accurate? The terrain was thought to be reasonably rollong
(due to the thick vegetation concealing the actual nature). General Rupertus
(in my opinion the worst Divisional Commander in Marine Corps history) never
once went forward to the front lines to see what was going on. Puller drew
the worst possible terrain and direct support wasn't feasible in most of his
AOR. Rupertus (as best I recall) wasn't even ashore for the first couple
days.
The US Navy did little or no real recon on the island prior to the
assault (not unusual during that campaign). Geiger fell down when the Navy
refused to send an adequate gunfire support group ("We don't have enough
ammunition" was the lame excuse from the Navy planners at Pearl).
Geiger, as the Amphibious Corps commander knew that Puller wasn't fully
recovered from a previous wound to his thigh (I believe the steel was still
there). Puller not only fought the Japanese, he was barely able to walk only
a few days into the operation. Rupertus' inability as a commander was
already known within certain circles (and he was a close friend of Geiger)
and should never been allowed to command the operation. His Assistant
Division Commander, BGen Smith, was far better suited to lead in combat.
Regardless of the reasons for Puller's performance at Pelileau, he more
than proved his ability throughout the Banana wars, as a Battalion commander
in China during the 30's and especially at Chosin Reservoir.




From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
To: lowryscott@hotmail.com
Subject: re: your message
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:15:10 EDT

Gy Sgt Scott:

I don't have access to the maps you speak of and I am sure you are
correct
about what you say. However, as I understand it General Geiger walked
into a
tent unexpectedly while Puller was having an argument with one of the
other
regimental commanders chastising him for wasting so much artillery
ammunition
on the Japanese instead of just charging into a straight ahead conflict.
To
which the other regimental commander replied "Sir, I am lavish with my
ammunition and stingy with my men's lives" and then General Geiger
replied
"that is a very good philosophy and it is my own."

The story has it that General Geiger was privately so upset with Puller
after
talking to many men and field commanders that he chose to send him back
to
the states as a Liaison to the Manhattan Project after the battle of
Pelileu.

I am sorry I used such harsh language in my original criticism of
General
Puller. With General Geiger's reputation for being a soldier's general
and
how much he cared for his men's lives I find it hard to believe that he
would
not have given Puller anything he asked for in the way of support no
matter
what it took.

Best Regards,

Dennis Garwitz Sr.

From:
"Tom Dowlearn" <tdowlearn@axs4u.net> Save Address - Block Sender
Reply-To:
"Tom Dowlearn" <tdowlearn@axs4u.net>
To:
<NJGarwitz@aol.com> Save Address
CC:
"Richard Gaines" <gunnyg@hotmail.com> Save Address
Subject:
Fw: re: your message
Date:
Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:31:07 -0500

Dennis, your msg to Scott Lowry concerning Chesty Puller was of
special
interest to me due to my serving him upon his return to LeJeune
as Trng Regt
Cmdr in April 45. I need the source of information on the
Manhattan Project
as I was one being prepared to participate in the Trinity Shot
along with
about a Co. of MG & Mortar Men that finished the ordeal and went
blindly off
to White Sands and have been hidden from history. I appreciate
your
apology to our beloved leader and especially so knowing
thousands of us
would die for him and some may get upset enough to kill for him.
Would
appreciate any data and good luck in your research,
Tom Dowlearn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Gaines" <gunnyg@hotmail.com>
To: <tdowlearn@axs4u.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: re: your message


> Tom:
>
> Take a look at what this guy Garwitz says about Puller being
assigned to
the
> Manhattan Project!!!
> First I have ever heard this, and I wonder what his reference
is.
> Dick
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "scott lowry" <lowryscott@hotmail.com>
> To: NJGarwitz@aol.com
> CC: GunnyG@HotMail.Com
> Subject: re: your message
> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:28:37 EDT
>
> Dennis,
> I understand where you may have gotten your perception of
Puller from
> this battle alone. However, were you aware that NO maps of
Pelileau were
> even close to accurate? The terrain was thought to be
reasonably rollong
> (due to the thick vegetation concealing the actual nature).
General
Rupertus
> (in my opinion the worst Divisional Commander in Marine Corps
history)
never
> once went forward to the front lines to see what was going on.
Puller drew
> the worst possible terrain and direct support wasn't feasible
in most of
his
> AOR. Rupertus (as best I recall) wasn't even ashore for the
first couple
> days.
> The US Navy did little or no real recon on the island
prior to the
> assault (not unusual during that campaign). Geiger fell down
when the Navy
> refused to send an adequate gunfire support group ("We don't
have enough
> ammunition" was the lame excuse from the Navy planners at
Pearl).
> Geiger, as the Amphibious Corps commander knew that Puller
wasn't
fully
> recovered from a previous wound to his thigh (I believe the
steel was
still
> there). Puller not only fought the Japanese, he was barely
able to walk
only
> a few days into the operation. Rupertus' inability as a
commander was
> already known within certain circles (and he was a close
friend of Geiger)
> and should never been allowed to command the operation. His
Assistant
> Division Commander, BGen Smith, was far better suited to lead
in combat.
> Regardless of the reasons for Puller's performance at
Pelileau, he more
> than proved his ability throughout the Banana wars, as a
Battalion
commander
> in China during the 30's and especially at Chosin Reservoir.
>
>
> >From: NJGarwitz@aol.com
> >To: lowryscott@hotmail.com
> >Subject: re: your message
> >Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:15:10 EDT
> >
> >Gy Sgt Scott:
> >
> >I don't have access to the maps you speak of and I am sure
you are
correct
> >about what you say. However, as I understand it General
Geiger walked
into
> >a
> >tent unexpectedly while Puller was having an argument with
one of the
other
> >regimental commanders chastising him for wasting so much
artillery
> >ammunition
> >on the Japanese instead of just charging into a straight
ahead conflict.
To
> >which the other regimental commander replied "Sir, I am
lavish with my
> >ammunition and stingy with my men's lives" and then General
Geiger
replied
> >"that is a very good philosophy and it is my own."
> >
> >The story has it that General Geiger was privately so upset
with Puller
> >after
> >talking to many men and field commanders that he chose to
send him back
to
> >the states as a Liaison to the Manhattan Project after the
battle of
> >Pelileu.
> >
> >I am sorry I used such harsh language in my original
criticism of General
> >Puller. With General Geiger's reputation for being a
soldier's general
and
> >how much he cared for his men's lives I find it hard to
believe that he
> >would
> >not have given Puller anything he asked for in the way of
support no
matter
> >what it took.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Dennis Garwitz Sr.
> >
>
>

From:
HalCHASE@aol.com Save Address - Block Sender
To:
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lzbaldy@tri-lakes.net, jwaldron@halcyon.com, ZOBOLI@aol.com, HalCHASE@aol.com,
kim-chi@mindspring.com Save Address
Subject:
Re: Chesty Puller
Date:
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:23:15 EDT

Just a note to add to this conversation:

First, I apologize for the long delay in adding my thoughts =
I've been out
of the country for two weeks.

Second, I did not have the honor of serving under Chesty in
Korea, but did
come to know and respect him while at Camp Lejeune,

Third, and most important, I had the honor of attending a
dinner honoring
Chesty prior to his retirement, put on by a small group of
Marines, officers
and enlisted, at Court House Bay. I sat for hours, at his feet,
after
dinner, just talking about Corps, country, duty, honor, and
"taking your
finger off your number" to do and be what is needed to continue
to make our
Corps and Country what is has been and should be.

I feel sorry for those who have not had a similar opportunity,
better yet,
been blessed as I have, to have carried the name "Marine".
Those that
haven't just don't understand what we are talking about.

Semper Fi!!! - Hal Chase

I never met Chesty, but I did stand in review for him at camp Lejune.
It seems to me that Chesty was one of those rare warriors that show up when needed and then are relegated to the back room until we are put into a situation where we again need their expertise.
Stupid eh. Instead of using their talents we hide them in the attic like a family member we are ashamed of for one reason or another.
I don't have an answer for this malady, just the sad observation of a wasteful situation.
I'm just a junior NCO and I am not supposed to have the answers , but I do have a question , WHY?
Semper Fi Cpl. Jack Caffrey

Yeah, he may have been crazy and he may have been an SOB, but he was OUR CRAZY SOB and no recruit dogface has a right to criticize him. Only the dead of Guadalcanal and Peleliu have that right. Bug Off Dogface!

I'm new to this forum. This post just hit a sour note with me and although it's many months old, I feel the need to respond. Having spent some time with A/1/5 in Vietnam, and some time in Pendelton, I am honored to be considered a Grunt by my Corps Buddies.
That said, I would like to say that if it weren't for Chesty and the Marines, half of the Army wounded would still be sitting around the Chosin Resevoir, if they weren't pushing up daisies. The Marines not only brought out their own dead and wounded, but the Army's as well. Why didn't the Army?
This is what makes the Marines unique. It's a huge comfort to a Marine or Navy Corpsman to know that he won't be left behind. Army??? Give me a break dude.

I refrain from commenting on the message except to say he was needed at the time as are the "Pattons" and others. I would like to comment however I served under "Chesty" when he was Asst. Base CO at Camp Lejeune in 1955. I was NCO-in-charge of the saluting battery for his retirement (I recall he asked SgtMaj Norrish? to pin his retirement star on). I was serving in the MP Company at the time and I frequently rembember that old gray 50/51 Chevy with the star on the from plate sailing through the main gate - I was one of the gate in-charges and woe to me if one of my sentry's ever tried to stop him! My father also served under him in his early years. (I might add we're a 3 generation family - my oldest son was a later addition to the corps).