Dont' be fooled by the subject line, I'm not an anti-military liberal freak or anything like that, but after a careful review of my life and where it was headed, I realized two very important things:

1. I needed to get out of the Corps as soon as possible, and...
2. Something's very wrong with the Corps AND the military in general...

1. This is a bit of a personal tale, so bear with me. I joined in 1991 and was originally contracted as 0431 Embark (For those of you who don't know, that's basically the movement of gear from point A to point B. Marking boxes, getting gear on and off trucks/planes/ships/etc... Basically the UPS or Fed Ex of the Marines) During my time in, I was found to be quite proficient with computers, and never served in my MOS. I assisted the ISMO everywhere I was stationed, and actually obtained a Bachellor's Degree in Computer Engineering while I was serving. I tried several times to officially transfer to that field, but was never granted. The worst possible ramification of this, was that in 1998, I was ordered to Camp Lejeune, and assigned the billet of Embark Chief for an infantry battalion. For any 0431 with 8 years of service, this would be an honor, but having worked a total of zero days in my MOS, I was more of a hinderance than a help to my unit. I made many formal and informal pleas to be reassigned, but the bottom line was this: THE CORPS, IN THEIR INFINITE WISDOM, VALUED MY THREE WEEKS OF EMBARK TRAINING OVER MY FOUR-YEAR DEGREE IN COMPUTER ENGINEERING! "You are an Embarker," I was told, over and over again, despite my absence of experience in that field, and obvious proficiency in another. This brings me to item 2.

2. The Marines have become (or always have been) so rigidly formalized that it is next to impossible for people with genuine skills to effectively support the mission.

Now... before anyone replies accusing me of whining or the like, be aware that I rode out my two terms, was honorably discharged and eventually found a VERY HIGH PAYING JOB in the field I am actually qualified in. Not only did the Marines loose a very good person with superior skills, they denied me (and how many others?) the chance to truly give ourselves and our skills to our country.

I truly believe that the U.S.A. has the best society on this planet, and that the Marines are integral to ensuring that the U.S. coninues to exist. It's just a shame that they're not examining the abilities of their people more seriously.

Now, combine this with truly miserable living conditions, and pay consistently below the poverty level, and you've got yourself the makings of a dwindling Corps... exactly what we are seeing these days, and something that Congress is investigating.

We live in a high tech age, and recruiting (and retention) are seriously low. Why would anyone join the Marines (or any other branch) for the chance to work with Windows95, when they could get paid twice or three times as much to work half the hours and with Windows2000? Or some other much-more-hi-tech system? They wouldn't, and that's one reason why there's a problem. I can only hope that someone with some clout is reading this and taking notes...

1. People want MOS's appropriate to their skills.
2. People want non-roach-infested housing.
3. People want decent pay.
4. People want dignity, or at least a REASON to serve...
5. People want housing-related mainenance calls that are serviced in LESS THAN SIX MONTHS.
6. People want to NOT be responsible for a million things that are NOT related to their jobs. (i.e. why is the Embark Chief responsible for raking leaves?)
7. People want equipment that WORKS.
8. People want money for college. College costs WAY MORE THAN THE GI BILL and we ALL know that there's no call for machine gunners in the civilian world.
9. People want a chance to tell their leaders what's on their minds.
10. Marines want to be people. As of now, they're automatons who live in roach-infested-housing, are under-paid, are allowed no dignity, have no enemy, or reason to serve, live with broken living facilities for over six months at a time, have many additional duties not related to their MOS, deal with faulty equipment, can't afford and education, and are encouraged to NOT speak their minds. That hardly qualifies as "people." Change this, and you'll see the Corps re-gain its former glory.

G.L.S.

nm

I read your posting and glad to hear that you found a very high paying empoyment now that you are out of the Corps. I wonder if you included your Marine Service on your resume?

The Corps of past and today is as the young kids say a 24-7 job which a loy of the kids can not accept. They think it is a 8 hours a day job and party time after 1630.

The barracks of today and the mess hals are about the best they have even been with the air conditions and balance food diets, I know my first duty station we sleep in 8 man squad tents with a pot belly oil stove and 4 blankets. I glad the new bks sleep 2 or 4 men to a room which are a great improvment. Sorry to hear about the roaches, but you may think a little daily clean up on the part of the troops who live in the bks may get rid of the roaches. get rid of the empty beer bottles, pizza boxes etc and maybe these roaches will move on to Ft Bragg or some other base. Decent pay, well consider the free food in the mess hall, the increased BAS allottments, clothing allowance, PX (not state or local taxes to pay) the new kids get a fair pay.
The change of MOS, how many young troop put in a PA form to change their MOS? If you are a NCO or SNCO it is you responsiblity for the million things to do outside your MOS, hell you are suppose to be a "LEADER".

Like many past Marines who have completed college, the old WW2 or Korean GI bills didn't pay all of the fees, so we worked part time jobs to complete our education.

In short, the young people of the Corps and the USA and not all are in a society where it's a give me something for nothing and give it to me now as I don't have the time to work extra to get it.....

With regards to Marines are people, you are wrong Marines are Marines first and people second.

First Sgt, Retired

You said it all, 1stSgt. It is not the Corps that is going bad, it is the caliber of men that are going into the Corps. Of course I think a lot of it has to do with the senior officers (who are only concerned about getting their ticket punched to move on up the ladder). Sure, the Corps may not be up to full strength, and you may work a little harder, but those who expected it to be all play and no work, strut around in that pretty blue uniform and chase women and booze it up, the Corps doesn't need that kind anyway. Anybody that thinks they got a bum rap from the Corps usually brought it down on themselves. Better off without this guy.


Semper Fi.
Ed

You said it all, 1stSgt. It is not the Corps that is going bad, it is the caliber of men that are going into the Corps. Of course I think a lot of it has to do with the senior officers (who are only concerned about getting their ticket punched to move on up the ladder). Sure, the Corps may not be up to full strength, and you may work a little harder, but those who expected it to be all play and no work, strut around in that pretty blue uniform and chase women and booze it up, the Corps doesn't need that kind anyway. Anybody that thinks they got a bum rap from the Corps usually brought it down on themselves. Better off without this guy.


Semper Fi.
Ed

I cannot believe that you spent 8 years in the Corps and completly missed the point. A Marine, regardless of MOS is a rifleman 1st, or so or warrior ethos states. That should clue you in that regardless of your job, you have to be capable of so many differnet things. Gunny Highway lauded his Marines for improvising, adapting, and overcoming. You wern't responsible for raking leaves, you were responsible for getting the leaves raked up. Leadership. There is no school in the USA that teaches leadership like the Marine Corps. I currently have 20 year old Cpl's responsible for the security of national strategic weapons. You do not find that in the Air Force or the Navy. Sure, there is no use in the civilian world for a machine-gunner, but there is certainly a place for the leadership and confidence you get from taking a team/squad/section out on float. And that's what employers buy, not a degree but experience. If you wern't happy with your MOS, why did you ship over for a second term? Did the Marine Corps pay for 75% of your degree through tuition assistance? Did you ever apply for a commission through ECP/MCP?
Marines are not ROBOTS. They challenge me everyday to provide them leadership worthy of their lives and livelyhood. They speak their minds to me, sometimes too much. They joined to be challenged, not to work a job. You served with a Marine infantry Battalion, in my opinion the heart of the Corps. (YES, I be a grunt - but I'm still right!) But you missed the point. It is not a job, its a calling. The Army advertises money for college, the Navy technical training. We advertise people jumping through fire, scaling walls with their bare hands and slaying lava monsters with swords. That has nothing to do with job training, it has everything to do challenging yourself.

I served from 79 to 83 in the Air Wing of our Corps. I served under truly great NCOs and some not. I agree with you that it is a calling, not a job. When you join, if you're a moderately intelligent person, you scope all the services. The Army, Navy and Air Force promise travel, $ for college or other bennies. The Corps promises a challenge. And the Corps delivers.

In 1944-46 we were riflemen first and something else second. I am glad it is still true today. I hope this will always be an enternal truism of being a Marine. Incidentally, I think Marine should always be spelled with a capital M. When my book, "The First Battalion of the 28th Marines," was published, my editor overrode my protests and used the little m many times.

Bob Allen
B Company, 28th Marines (44-46)

Remember your first day at boot camp? I do; I was very tired by the time I even got to Parris Island. Boot camp is designed to break you down and reprogram you - the USMC way! You train for what seems like forever and then you are given an MOS. You then go to school for your MOS - fun, fun; mine was at 29 Palms, CA! OOH-RAH!!!!! or later as my platoon used: RAH-OOH!!!!! Anyway, when you joined the military; you joined with a chance that you might go to war (I did - Operations Desert Shield/Storm/Calm). No one ever wants to go to war (well, not the smart ones) but there is always that chance; so we must train for that day so in case it comes. No, I did not serve in my MOS as a 2531 (Field Radio Operator) while in the Corps. I did mail; files and correspondence; Training NCO; Drug & Alcohol NCO; plus many other jobs - it all seemed to be clerical no matter where I was at. But, when I went to war - I hauled bulk jet fuel in 5,000 gallon tankers. I saw the front lines; was ahead of the front lines at times trying to get fuel to tanks and other vehicles. I did almost get blown up - wasn't fun at all. Before going to war; our chowhall here in the states; roaches were falling from the ceilings into our food while we were trying to eat - now that's bad. On top of all of this; try being one of two females in a convoy of 80+ vehicles (18 wheelers hauling jet fuel - ammo - jet fuel - ammo -- the whole convoy was this with a supply truck every once in a while with about 5 or 6 or them in all) in the middle of a ground war - talking about bad barracks - we had no barracks; we slept in, on top of, under our trucks or on top of the tankers; facilities - we had none (I came up with the idea of puting on our ponchos so we could use the bathroom with a little bit of privacy - remember 2 females and about 160 males). We ran out of food and water more than once. While we were out of these things and others were leaving the country; they were throwing their water away because the military would not let them hand it over to us (another unit); so, we went to the dump and gathered up what we could. We got lucky sometimes and unloaded their trucks for them and put stuff in our trucks so we wouldn't have to dig out good bottles or water. The USMC has not helped me get a job out here in the civilian world as I have disabilities from the war. I have 7 years total active duty; 2 1/2 years reserve time and 5 years inactive time (had to go inactive due to health problems). I thank the Lord that we did not get into another war during that time. Yes, people would like to work at something they are good at. But even in the civilian world not every one works at what they have a degree in or what they are good at. Do you actually think that someone would choose to be in Infantry or another combat MOS (2531 for example) if they had the chance to work in a job that they could get a college degree for almost free in?!?!? Think about it. I am not putting you down in any way and do not want to offend anyone at all. Have you ever had a CO that hated women in the military????? I have; it wasn't easy. Before you really knock the military and IT'S jobs available - think about your FREEDOM and the fact that you live in a FREE COUNTRY!!!!! Think about all of those who never made it home alive... Think about why you joined the Corps in the first place...was it to get a degree or help with a degree or was it to become a man or was it to get away from home or did you have a choice; the Corps or jail? There are so many reasons why people join the military. I personally joined because my parents were very strict and I wanted to venture; to travel; to get out of the strictness of my home - I chose the USMC because it seemed like the right choice. I would have loved to have been in the Intelligence Field; but, was not chosen for that. I come from a small town; not much here; but, it is home now. Rethink your concerns - the military is first to train one to fight to help keep her/his country free; jobs in the military have to center around this type stuff because that is their mission. Being a female in the military; I am sure I had it way much harder than you as a female had to always prove herself when I was in. We had to do exactly what the men did until they (THE USMC) decided that women couldn't do that. I wanted to go to Recon since they would not let me in the Intelligence Field; didn't happen. I wanted to do exciting things whether it would help me in the civilian world or not; I wanted adventure - I got CamPen, CA and Cherry Point, NC. All of my orders to Okinawa got cancelled and I wanted to go. Thanks to Desert Storm - I got to spend a few hours in Spain (I want to go back) and months in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait (No, I do not want to go back there). In the civilian world; I am either overqualified for every job I apply for OR I can do the job by experience but without a college degree they won't hire me. By the way; I am three hours away from being a Senior in college and am seriously thinking about returning in January 2001 to finish my degree. I have paid for the most of my college and am still paying for some of it; but, due to my disabilities from the war; the government is now going to pay for the rest of my education. Praise the Lord for that because I am broke as the government has not let me work for over three years now. And no, I do not get that much from the VA; not much at all even though the VA is why I cannot work. No, I am not whining. I am just saying: Rethink why you joined the USMC in the first place as you may be missing the whole idea of your complaint for other Marines. By the way; when I was in; I tried to go to college but because of all of my field commitments; I never got to go. Yes, I worked basically clerical except for when I had to go to the Stumps for field training in my MOS. When I got to Cherry Point; I did get a secondary MOS as an 0151 - thrill thrill; but, it was a job that had to be done and if it wasn't - Marines complained VERY loudly. It was not a 0800-1630 job for me; it was usually a 0700-1800 job for me while in conus; field time was usually a 24/7 job as well as the war was a 24/7 job. Use your talents now and thank the Corps for helping you get your education and the chance to even go to college while in the Corps as there are many who don't even get that. Take care and may God always bless you and yours! GOD, COUNTRY, CORPS!!!!! Semper Fidelis!!!!! Also remember how you felt every time you heard the Marine Corps Hymn ----- did you just sit there or did you snap to attention with pride in being a Marine!?!?! (Think about it.) P.S. I apologize for the longness of this message.

The Corps is the absolute winner upon your decision to be discharged. Sounds like you milked the Corps for all you could!!!!!!

Too bad you didn't get some time in a line outfit and find out what the Corps is really all about.
I ran into this attitude over and over when I was put in a stateside Regt. HQ.
The pointy end of the spear comes first. All the other stuff just supports it.

THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE OF LEADERSHIP: MISSION ACCOMPLISHMENT

What are we saing here that the corps only gave me 1hr of hand to hand combat traning, and the corps did not give me enough rounds, the corps did give me people instead of marines and the enemy is about to over run my position I shuld give up. LET ME BRAKE THIS DOWN MARINE STYLE BROTHER. You will take any thing you got. I Dont care if you take a MRE spone as long as you hold that position. Any wear any time. I will do any thing to get that mission done to the best of my ability ever time. WHY IAM A MARINE AND I CAN NOT LET MY BROTHERS DOWN. I think you should have found a PUB or orderd a MCI or asked a fellow marine for help
that is how you get the job done. ANY ?

The individual Marine builds and represents the character, personality, and reputation of the Corps. Anyone can complain, but only a few step up and utilize the initiative to fix problems and make attempts to better the work surrounding. The policies and regulations are the same as they have been for many years with minor changes. Marines do several jobs because there is a million things to get done all the time and only so many people. Marines are known for doing more with less, that is where ingenuity and teamwork come in. The american people want us for one of these reasons and our ability to win and never quit. I have seen some great imagination and inventions in this area. You can talk to your leaders, so long as you do it with tact and respect, a leader needs input from his people. You want reasons to be a Marine? If you need one, you missed the whole point and must have gotten nothing out of your service. Here are a few reasons - pick any, being a part of an awesome organization, wearing a motivating uniform, high standards, working with some of the best and most professional people that you will ever meet, teamwork, camaraderie, leadership, responsibility, pride, etc., etc. and etc. I could go on for days, there are millions of good reasons that I have felt myself and heard from others. You may be under paid, but nobody is a Marine for the money, and yes, you can find ways to supplement that. Being a Marine comes from inside, and is a feeling cannot be explained, only experienced. I lived on base for 13 years and if I took the initiative to call someone or notify my chain of command of bugs or broken items, something was done. One motivated and enthusiastic Marine can spread like wildfire in a unit, I know because I have proven it several times. Either you make a difference for the better, the worse, or you do nothing. Sometimes you have to wait for more rank, or the right time, but your time will come. I am sorry that you did your time and came out with nothing, you missed out on something that provides a spark for the many Marines in the world that did get something out of their service and are eternally grateful. I got out 5 months ago of my own free will with no regrets of being a Marine. Sometimes there were moments when it sucked, but I think of the people that I shared those times with, and I would do it all again. Even though we do not always get the job we want, we try to do the best with what we got and better our surroundings to make a difference for the better. If you and I are scrubbing a toilet, I am going to make mine the shiniest, cleanest, and best smelling toilet ever, because I have developed that much pride in myself and my duty. I came in open contract into a crappy MOS, and would not trade one moment as a Marine. The gear may not be the best, but we always made due and used a little ingenuity. I am glad that you were not one of my recruits either time that I served as a drill instructor, because I would be feeling that I did not do my job and lost a soul because I did not pass on the rich history, tradition, and very ethos that our Corps thrives on. The military is not for everyone, but you should at least come out better than what you went in. None of this is meant to be negative, I just hope that you look at it with an open mind and realize that you really did gain several things that can not be measured and better you as a citizen and can have a tremendous affect on those around you in the civilian world. Semper Fidelis devil dog- A still motivated Former Sergeant

It is my opinion that you should stop blaming the
Marine Corps. You should have joined the guards
since you are such a cry baby.

1. I'm not whining, I'm telling a story. A true story.

Let's pretend for a second that I'm not talking about myself. Let's say there's this guy who's very very skilled in a particular area. We'll call it "Skill A" In fact, this guy has years and years of experience and formal training at Skill A. Now, this guy goes to a new unit that has a vast need for Skill A. However, it turns out that he has a few days of training from several years ago in another area we'll call "Skill Z"

Should this person work in Skill A or Skill Z? Well, the command decided to not only put this guy in Skill Z, the command decided to put him completely in charge of all Skill Z related issues.

Meanwhile, the unit experiences a huge vacuum for leadership and talent in Skill A.

Did the command do the right thing?

Now the good news is, this guy did everything in his power to become good at Skill Z (since that was his new mission) but taking out an MCI or two, as many of you suggested, just wouldn't do it. You see, there was an 8-YEAR gap to fill and only a few weeks to fill it.

No surprise that come re-enlistment time this guy decided to go pursue Skill A as a civilian and make more than twice his former pay.

Does it make more sense to you now?

and, on the surface, it makes sense to me. However, I don't accept the point as you give it because there may have been some circumstances involved, circumstances that you were not aware of, that caused the assignments you described. In your situation, you were faced with two, both honorable, choices:
1. Accept whatever assignment was given to you and do your best; or
2. Get out.
You chose the latter course and I would assume, given your skills, you should be able to able to find suitable employment. I, and I know that many of the other "Old Salts" here, wish you the best for the future. USMC SN# 587456 from 4/46 to 1/61; USA RA14763304 from 5/61 to 9/69.

And still don't get it, you used exactly what the Corps was supposed to teach you "FLEXIBILITY" and it's not about where "YOU" think the Corps should have put "YOU" you should have been greatful that prior to your "DEGREE" that the Corps accepted "YOU" and "GAVE YOU" a job and an opprtunity to strive to a future goal! Now don't misunderstand me I'm not angry at you, but just that you have missed the point, The Marine Corps is a very special world, that only a select few will ever enter, they gave you the drive to "SUCCEED"
you ought to be thanking God that he allowed you the grace to become "A MARINE". Semper Fi!
(Always Faithful)

Bulldog, USMC Ret.

I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW ,,,,I AM PROUD OF YOU.

Dear G.S.L
My motivation for joining the Marine Corps was simply this. Good old fashion patriotism. A thing our country had before Viet Nam and for a short time during Operation Desert Storm. If you want to get benefits for your serve to our country why not the Air Force, or Navy. Why the hell would you join the Marine Corps. When I joined the Corps I asked for an 03 MOS. Why? Because I wanted to be a Marine. I didn't give a damn about benefits, or living quarters. I spent 4 years in the field humping my as off. It's a sad fact in our country that we can't do something just because we are grateful for our freedom. Because thousands gave there life on foreign fields so you have the freedom to make your money.
One word my friend, and fellow Marine...
PATRIOTISM

You are a Marine first which means rifleman first.Now you have a big fat job,thanks to the Corps.You are a crybaby wuss,thank God you were never in war with us,all of us might have been wiped out.