(You can read this or not, but maybe you're mind will change about my "pornography" afterwards!!!!)
Looking back at old posts that I saved on a couple floppy disks I realized back in August of '06 how some people criticized (*clears throat* Harry) said: "THIS IS PORNOGRAPHY! 0/10!!!!!" Adding on: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE LIKING THIS BAIT!" Harry: not many people do because they are in the same boat as you thinking of it as pornography!!!!!!! So here's my little essays to the haters, or should I say, the misunderstanders!
I know how everybody seems to think of "Bruised Boys" as a very bad bait mostly because it had no moral or meaning and it had an ending of being exploitive. However, I'd like to clear something up. The "five minute sex scene" I would like for you to please, please, pretty please ignore that whole line and understand this. It's about EIGHT minutes long! But it is not SEX that the boys are doing it is experimenting with sex... NOT having EXPLICIT sex. They don't know ANYTHING about sex but what they seen in porn or hear from others and they want to know what it's like. When they meet at the park they walk into the woods and they express how they can try to love someone. Believe me, we ALL go through a time of experimentation whether it is gay, lesbian, or straight. What these two boys are doing is having a first sexual moment in their lives just like you and I have. For example, in that scene, Lance (Haley Joel Osment) tells Nathan (Zac Efron) that he was at the library and on the computer and noticed that a gay couple, were giving each other (and dare me say it!!!) blow jobs. In this moment, yes, they do that sexual move on one another but it does not SHOW anything instead, it just shows the boys' face expressions and afterward they talk just like normal human beings, like how their life is and other things. I am NOT trying to be exploitive like many other people, including people who watch it and don't understand the art of filmmaking. But hopefully you will be smart enough to realize I am trying to show a moment everybody goes through in their lives. Something to relate to. I AM NOT TRYING TO BE PORNOGRAPHIC!!! I was trying to show two teenagers confused about sex and trying to see what it's all about. I am trying to get a moral across. And in the back of my mind, I forgot to mention that that scene isn't really the last scene of the movie. The last scene shows Zac Efron's character Nathan walk into his house to realize that his mother is dead. He lay beside her and cries for two minutes and we share his heartbreak and it just shows that he has come to a halt in his life. Lance (Joel Osment's character), however, is having problems because his father Multry (an Oscar nominated performance by Thomas Haden Church) was told by the local librarians that it was found in their history on the computers that Lance had been looking at gay porn. Multry tells his wife Vivian (Cate Blanchett) who takes it hard, but also tells Lance when he picks him up from the park where he was "studying" (no pun intended) Lance sits in silence and this scene plays:
(Lance sits in the car, his father Multry drives. Lance fingers the handle of the door he leans against, swiping across the buttons as they seem to relax him and keep him calm. The silence is broken my Multry scratching voice.)
MULTRY: Your mom is still upset about it but I don't think there is anything to worry about.
(Lance does not say a word. Multry looks at him as to see that Lance almost drifts away from his words and practically ignores everything he's trying so hard to tell him.)
MULTRY: Y'know all that stuff I said about me hating queers? I didn't really mean them. It's just that whenever I seem to almost ... bully someone. It just, you know ... I use it as an almost stress-reliever. Putting fags down is something that helps me, y'know... feel goo-- feel better about myself. (He sighs.)
(He looks at Lance now who seems to have a little bit of interest. He still, however, remains quiet.)
MULTRY: Y'know maybe, you're not even gay, Lance, I mean, maybe you're just in a moment of time where you just think you are, I mean, I know I--- (he pauses) You know, I don't know, Lance. I just don't know.
(Lance looks at Multry, almost as if Multry had just kicked him down into the dirt. Lance looks down at his thumbs which now remain in his lap, pressing against one another.)
LANCE: Dad?
(Multry has a look of gratefulness.)
MULTRY: Yeah?
(Lance gulps.)
LANCE: Dad, now that I told you this... you're going to hate me now right?
MULTRY: No, Lance, no, don't you ever think that. You're my son and what your going through is understandable and I'm here and I'm going to stay on your side at all times, no matter how hard your mom takes it, or anybody else for that matter.
LANCE: You're just going to think of me as your gay son, right?
(Multry stares dead-on at Lance.)
MULTRY: No, you're wrong. When you say that, you are 100% wrong! I'll think of you as my son. You are my son. And if know gay will make its way into that because you're still Lance fu**ing Howell. (Multry's eyes get watery.) You're my son.
My goal was to show the sexual nature of an unexpreienced teenager. Notice how Multry pauses when he talks about how everyone has a moment in time where they think they are gay. That really is not the case for all people but this just shows that Multry understands because Multry probably was in love with a guy before. Maybe something happened to that guy that made him the homophobic guy he is now. Just maybe, but it is better left unsaid just to bring the depth of Multry as a character and as a human being. "You are still my son" he basically says. That's what "Bruised Boys" is all about. Acceptance (that Nathan's mother is dead, that Multry has to accept his son the way he is), understanding, relating, but most of all --- LOVE! Pure love...
Please understand what I was trying to get with this bait. I feel like now is the right time to give this LONG talk but one year later may be all I need to fit this in the most perfect and blunt way possible. In my interview with Chris, I stated that I wanted "Nikida and Bull" to be on the top 100 and I wanted to be remembered by. Now I change my mind. "Bruised Boys" is my masterpiece and I want you guys to know that. My heart was poured into this story just as much as "Nikida and Bull" and I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but look back and see for yourself. I never tried to be explicit. They are troubled teenage virgins. Coping with knowing if they are or aren't even gay and wanting someone to love. It has been psychologically tested that molested children grow up to be sexually confused. Nathan was molested by Bradley. I never stated there was a sex scene between them. What makes it so disturbing is the fact that the camera sits in Nathan's four year old point of view and you stare into the eyes of the monster who begins to touch. We never see anything but that of the eyes of the monster who has damaged a soul that was not ready to be hurt. It is life for some people and it is life for Nathan. Lance is sort of a mystery. He may be someone who is gay and doesn't know why. Maybe he's confused himself into thinking he's gay. I mean, yes, he's looked at gay porn and has experimented with Nathan, but he has never told anybody he was gay unlike Nathan (who had told his dying mother). No. The librarians assumed and felt in necessary to snitch him out to his father. But Multry seems to understand, although he tells his wife who may or may not accept Lance as for the movie never dwells that much deeper into the boys' lives. Don't you guys understand the words of the title? "BRUISED BOYS"?????!! These boys are bruised and they are hurt. they are looking for a way to heal and love and being loved is how they expect to find it. You may not even bothered reading this whole thing but I hope that you do. Because...
"BRUISED BOYS" IS MY MASTERPIECE. PURE AND SIMPLE!!!!
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But I find it hysterical for some reason that after reading all of that, I scroll down and find an ad for realworkouts.com with this shirtless guy in a small speedo plastered across it! LOL! How ironic.
But anywho, I had not heard of this bait prior to this post, but I can say that it does come off very exploititive (sp?). However, you are hellbent on convincing us otherwise, so I believe you. It's a good bait - well-cast, except maybe this role is way too gritty for Efron. But anyways, alrighty then! I just thought I'd throw my two cents in.
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Am I the only one that really liked "Bruised Boys"? I thought it was great, and didn't slink away from the reality of the story. It wasn't a PG-rated story and I love it because of that. I really wish people could look at it with a more open mind and see the reality and feelings behind it.
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Bruised Boys was one of my favorite baits of 2006. It sucks that Douglas even has to defend it. People bashed it for its described sex scene, saying it was "graphic." First off, most of the sex scenes in movies focused on sexuality last more than five minutes, and there is more than one of them. Had the described sex scene been between a teenage boy and teenage girl, it would be a non-issue. And Douglas didn't even describe the scene; he just said that it was in the end, lasted 5 minutes and shocked people. The people that bashed the bait for being pornographic obviously have no idea what it's like being closeted in an intolerant society. Fortunately, the community I live in is very accepting of homosexuality, so I did not have to suffer through this. However, when someone does grow up under such circumstances, they are prone to doing extremely dangerous things sexually. And, to top it all off, Zac Efron's character was a molestation survivor. Douglas' version was actually extremely tactful when you consider what so many young men in similar situations would do. The first draft of Douglas' more recent bait, Clockwork, was actually a very accurate portrayal of what sexual confusion can lead to. Bruised Boys is a realistic, inspiring story, but instead it turned into the most controversial bait of all time, simply because people are unaware--or in denial--of the facts about the topic the bait is dealing with. People said that the sex scene was "disturbing." Indeed, the bait was disturbing, but not because of the sex scene. The bait is disturbing because of Jack Nicholson's character, the pedophile. However, he is portrayed in a highly unfavorable light, which makes it a beneficial aspect to the bait. When you get right down to it, the bait is a simple love story. People decided to overlook that, though, which is really quite sad.
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Your so right, Brian. I guess some people dont understand the bait because they haven't lived it and don't understand it. I live in a pretty liberal community but I was still pretty scared about coming out at first. I guess thats one of the reasons I like the bait so much. I, as well as several others I believe, have taken it as their own. Maybe looking at it as their story. Sometimes it is the most controversial stories that some people identify with the most.
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I'm willing to look at the bait past the homosexuality part, but I just didn't like it. The cast was hit or miss and it just didn't pull me into the story. Just didn't do it for me.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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Because Douglass, my religion comes before my opinion of films. I must examine them both on an artistic sense and based on my personal beliefs. I am not afraid to say that I am not a supporter of homosexuality. I understand there are those who feel different on this issue and they are free to do so. I have to look pass the homosexuality cause I do not wish to think on that subject (it grosses me out anyways). So it's the Latter-Day Saint (or Mormon as most people call us) in me that makes me do so.
And besides, a bait needs more than a controversial topic to be its driving force. It needs structure and quality and those things.
Please keep in mind this is just my opinion. It seems everyone else is supportive of Bruised Boys and that's fine. I'm just not a fan. Sorry.
And please send your ballots to the Top 100 address. If you really want this film to make it, you should support it there.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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I understand the reasons behind your personal beliefs on the topic. I'm not one to try to shove you in the corner and like my bait. The whole point of this post was for me to get straight with what I was actually trying to do with "Bruised Boys". Please do not think I am being "pushy" or anything. I'm not even though it sort of comes off that way. I'm just sad that even though it goes against your personal beliefs, can you see that this is real life and that people actually go through this every day? It's one of the many figures of human design. Sex can be confusing to some and I at least hope you can understand that was my goal. To show the lives of people struggling in these wounds. But please, pretty please don't think I'm trying to convince you otherwise against your religion. I'm truthfully not. But please understand I was trying to show two human beings.
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I understand and that's fine. I'm just not a fan of the bait overall. Just never liked it that much.
And please don't take my dislike of it the wrong way. We all have our baits that we like and ones we don't. And I personally like a lot of your other baits too (A Work of Fiction is my favorite of yours).
Good luck with promoting this bait and with Daniel the Informer.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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Being a part of this Oscar Igloo community for 8 months now, I've realized how much Zgamer's religion truly means to him. If he doesn't believe in homosexuality, than we should respect that 100% and not question that choice. If any of our beliefs make us not like a certain bait, then all the more power to this contest. It means we have many different viewpoints just like in the real Oscars and it makes it just that much better.
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In just about every story of every bait there is a death or a murder, but people get all freaked out when there's graphic sex being told like it's the worst thing someone can do. I don't know about any of you but I think sex is a great thing. lol. To be a real open-minded constructive critic you have to look past that and see it for what it is.
When someone says, "it wasn't my kind of thing, so i didn't like it." is crap! It's a huge pet peeve of mine and it means absolutely nothing to me.
You know, it's not supposed to be your kind of thing. You read it, you wanna review it, then you shouldn't and can't say that for a reason to knock it. Cos to tell you the truth, it's not constructive criticism to say that it's not your cup of tea. That maybe so, but it shouldn't have any bearing on your review. It's not pandering to you or your sensibilities. It's art made for the author's expression and anyone who enjoys that kind of story. You may hate it, but if it's done right and you're going to review it, it would be wrong to use that personal belief against the bait.
I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on a bait. That's well fine and good and you can express it anywhere you want but for review purposes, it is unjustifiable, rude, and wrong. I've seen many people here do that and it's ridiculous.
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Well I did give a few specifics for why I feel that way other than saying it's not my thing a few posts up D.W.. But please, I don't want this to erupt into a huge debate. I just didn't like the bait because other than the topic, I wasn't a fan of all the cast (particularly the Efron casting, for which it baffles me why everyone just assumes he's gay) and I didn't connect with the characters like I may have wanted to. There, is that good?
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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So D.W, say if I made a really well written and executed bait about dog fighting then according to your logic, you should give me a good review even though you said you hate dog fighting.
People aren't going to give a good review to something they dont like. Thats the way society is and that is how it will always be. You can't change that.
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I guess the thing D.W. is trying to say is that you shouldn´t judge the topic but how it´s executed. If it´s well written and executed why not give it a good review? It´s just not the right thing to bash a bait about homosexuals,asians,pedophiles or homosexual asian pedophiles just because you don´t like the topic! Everyone should try to be as objective as possible when it comes to reviews...By the way I hate dog fighting but I would definitely see a movie about it if it´s well executed..(Amores perros!!!)
P.S.: Maybe it´s the way society is and that you can´t change it..but it´s always worth trying!
P.P.S: Tony if you read this, sorry for my comments about your posters, it was just rude and stupid (I had a bad day). It won´t happen again! Please accept my apologies!
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I'm open to new ideas and I agree with what Nick said overall. I think this whole debate got a little blown out of proportions. So I apoligize if my disliking of the bait upset people. It's not just the topic mind you. I just didn't like the bait. I'm willing to like baits that are on such topics (I did enjoy Silence) but like you said, it's about the execution. I just didn't think Bruised Boys was well executed in my opinion.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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My point was aimed at the general public of the forum, not at you. I noticed that you said it wasn't your thing, which reminded me of a lot of reviews that go around using that as a reason for their grade, which I find as unjust. You have every right to not like it, whether it be for whatever reason. I've always thought of you to be very constructive with your reviews and I've always admired your open-mind concerning a lot of baits here, considering your religion which I think would be hard for any other person with your beliefs. Sorry for the misunderstanding, or if you took it the wrong way. I should have been more specific.
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Re: FYC for the top 100 Baits! --- BRUISED BOYS ( Want to get something across to the haters!)
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September 3 2007, 7:36 PM
The reason why I didn’t like this bait wasn’t because I am homophobic or have something against homosexual persons (I’m even against it). I really liked Brokeback Mountain and I even almost cried at the ending because the character struggle was very well made! When I read this bait, I saw no depth and I didn’t even see an interesting story. The pedophile character is not even mentioned in the synopsis and those new scenes that Douglas just wrote didn’t even appear. Also, I didn’t see the psychological struggle of these characters. Also, if the final sex scene would be described with those exact same words and would’ve also been a heterosexual sex scene, I would’ve considered it as porn because in the press section it said that “many persons left the theater”. I understand what you wanted to show with this bait Douglas but you didn’t let the bait speak for itself and the result was something that wasn’t very enjoyable in my opinion.
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Re: FYC for the top 100 Baits! --- BRUISED BOYS ( Want to get something across to the haters!)
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September 3 2007, 8:07 PM
I do have to defend the opinions of several people, although I may not totally agree with them. Many people who disliked "Bruised Boys" probobly didnt dislike it because of the homosexual factor because these same people gave "Silence" a favorable review. Although "Silence" wasn't as in your face about the topic as "Bruised Boys" was. Being gay myself, I am very critical toward baits with homosexual characters or plots simply because I know how things are myself. I'm the same way with a lot of "Gay movies". Some of them just make no sence lol. but some (such as "Angels in America", "Brokeback Mountain" and "Precsilla Queen of the Desert") do it well and I love them, although I will say i thought "Brokeback Mountain" was a little boring. If you have to look past the homosexual parts of a bait in order to really get into them, thats fine. As long as that particular factor doesn't influence your thoughts of the bait because of religious beliefs or personal opinion. I like to think of myself as a VERY open minded person and I use this to my advantage when reading baits. It doesn't matter if the subject matter includes things about other sexual orientations, religions, nationalities, or beliefs, i try to read it and judge the bait on it's own merit. I hope everyone else does this as well.
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Re: FYC for the top 100 Baits! --- BRUISED BOYS ( Want to get something across to the haters!)
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September 3 2007, 8:22 PM
Oh, wow. The half naked guy ad in the end is back lol.
And D.W. hit on a good point. Movies like "The Departed" portray murder in an extremely favorable light, and it is considered a modern masterpiece. But, if someone make a movie about two men that have sex, it causes an uproar.
And Harry, no one would leave the theater if it were a straight couple, because it's impossible for people to be offended by that, unless it's porn.
And Zgamer, I respect your beliefs 100%. I honestly don't care if people are against homosexuality, but I do care if they disrespect gay people, or make statements about their beliefs. Zgamer just says what he thinks, but still respects everyone no matter what. However, a very, very, very, very, very, VERY small percentage (that, because of their vocality, make it seem like a majority) of Christians feel the need to protest against people who are sinners in their eyes. And then, if you say anything about their beliefs, they say that you're a jerk for not respecting what they believe. Respect is something that's earned. If you are disrespectful to me, I have no reason to respect you. If I am disrespectful to you, you have no reason to respect me. This isn't at all in relation to Zgamer, just to make that perfectly clear. Zgamer is part of the vast majority of religious people who make their beliefs known, but do not force them upon others. I think it's great that Zgamer is so passionate about his beliefs. Do I agree with them? Not at all. But it is something positive and uniting that he holds to be true. Whether or not I think it's true is irrelevant, as Zgamer is the one who is going to go to the services, follow the advice and live the life based on those beliefs. And he seems like a pretty nifty guy, so I guess that's working out for him.
But, being fiscally anti-gay and bashing Bruised Boys is like a straight man bashing The View. You're the exact opposite of the intended audience. Unless it says something demeaning about you, it really doesn't matter what you think about it.
And, I have a question. It's constantly asked, but never answered, and considered extremely rude. Why? I don't know. But the question is: what is so wrong about being gay anyways? I know it's in the bible, but honestly, what does it do to you? In order for the bible to be published, it had to be in agreement with Roman laws, and in between hundreds of translations, is it not possible that it was added? I get why things like murder, stealing and adultery are sins: because they make another person's life harder. But the gay thing is really puzzling for me. And I don't mean this as condescending, sarcastic or disrespectful to your beliefs. It's just something that's directly related to me and has caused boatloads of controversy, and I still have no clue specifically why that is.
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Re: FYC for the top 100 Baits! --- BRUISED BOYS ( Want to get something across to the haters!)
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September 3 2007, 8:29 PM
That is such a good question lol.
I''ve the read the bible trough and through (New and Old Testement) and heres a little something i HAVE noticed. Jesus never spoke down about homosexuals. His deciples did, and people in the Old Testement did. But Jesus; no. Thats why I believe in Jesus and not the bible. That and the fact that there are unpublished books of the bible that have been proven excist. Maybe they say things that the first editors of the bible didn't want in it? Maybe some different opinions?
OK im gonna stop now because this is going to end up becoming the "Duscuss Relgion" thread soon ahah.
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Re: FYC for the top 100 Baits! --- BRUISED BOYS ( Want to get something across to the haters!)
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September 3 2007, 8:42 PM
Yes Brian, I can be quite nifty at times.
Just kidding. I think we should just quell this down before it goes too far. Man, to think one bait is making everyone get so involved with this is just crazy.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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Wow just by the response in this thread we can see how significant this Bait in Bait an Oscar history. This bait has challenged people to evaluate how they look at baits. Seems to me that this bait is worthy of a spot on the top 100 but I'm just one person.
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Heres something thats a little off topic and probboly in the wrong thread, but I think it would be really cool if the top 100 baits were like the AFI Top 100 Movies. Where each bait has a comment along side it or something like that. Like how it was important to the contest or something like that. I dont know. It would be cool though.
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That's actually what we have planned. Each bait will have comments on its quality and importance to the contest. Also, you can send a short clip of any of your baits that are on the nominations to the same e-mail address for the baits. That way we can get a glimpse into the film it may be.
Just to tell you.
Remember to send your ballots for the Top 100 Baits to baitanoscar@yahoo.com.
And look for Knights of the Old Republic this September.
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I never really cared for this bait till now, I read it for a second time just now and found myself very entertained. It is very raunchy but it works in the context of everything that goes on between these 2 kids. The press section has survived the test of time in my eyes, nobody has ever written one like this which makes the whole bait unique. The only thing I did not enjoy is the casting.
You made a nice job Douglas and you were in the top 10 that month, maybe you will also make the best of all time countdown.
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"The Counterfeit King" was my first bait I EVER submitted into this contest. I am very proud of it and it garnered me 2 Oscar nods. It came from a story I was fascianted by. Its my submission for consideration.
and...
in response to the discussion I have been reading about baits, controversy and homosexuality, i will says this...
everyone has personal beleifs and opinions that shape who they are and what they stand for, its everywhere, the music industry, the media, and the film industry. let us all respect one another and what each stands for and know that just because they don't agree with everything your bait stands for doesn't mean they automatically label it as a "bad bait." i am very much against the war and George W. Bush. i once read a bait about the journey of Bush in office and found it to be a great bait. So, lets respect each other's personal beliefs and keep this competitive and fun.
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