Gooch, think you could eloquently lay out your feelings to the trial of the hometown hero/villain known as Barry? And I can't wait to get Mr. Hauck's take on the proceedings....let's just hope the "Say Hey Kid" is opening doors and greeting people at some Casino in Vegas and doesn't have to watch his Godson lie some more under oath!
This message has been edited by spanky126 on Mar 21, 2011 12:31 PM
I have found the entire steroid issue to be a laughable display of hypocriisy.
Where were these holier than thou, finger shaking nay sayers back when it really mattered?
Guys like McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds were SAVING THE GAME OF BASEBALL at the time. Remember, there was a previous strike in 1994, a year during which there was NO WORLD SERIES.
So along come the BIG GUNS in the late '90s and the ball is flying out of the park at a record setting pace. Forget that many people knew what was happening. EVERYONE looked the other way. Fans went bezerk with their enthusiasm and hero worship for these guys. They flocked to the ballpark. Owners were ecstatic! BASEBALL was back!
Who cares what transpired in making that happen? At the time, NO ONE CARED. No one.
So, years later, some people finally look back and say 'Gee, you shoudn't have done all those things.' But someone should have objected at the time to give it merit. Of course, they didn't because doing so might mean hundreds and hundreds of millions to the business of baseball. In fact, these players taking steroids probably contributed to baseball earning billions over the years.
These guys are like Vietnam vets. Yeah, you sacrificed your bodies and fought like heck for us and saved us. But now we're OK, so the hell with you. We're gonna examine that war and find out what you did back then and how you did it and you're gonna pay.
Ya know, HBO did a special on the subject once. Hall of Famers like Mays, Aaron, Banks, and about nine other great players ALL, TO A MAN, said that if someone else was getting an edge taking steroids while they were playing, then they would have taken them too.
I won't be following the Bonds trial. But I do hope he is found 'not guilty'. He is being singled out among about 500 players (or who knows how many) who did the same thing. The only reason he is accused of lying is because he was one of the few players who was actually asked the question.
This message has been edited by jhauck21 on Mar 21, 2011 2:43 PM
Barroid is one of the most egregious cheaters in the history of sport and deserves to be called out for it. Does he deserve to go to prison? (Insert here trite argument about scumbags and criminals who do much worse and walk). Why not? If not for doing steroids or lying to the grand jury, then for being a jerk--he was that big a jerk!
I disagree with the thespian about whether or not Sammy-the-Hype and Musclehead saved baseball, or whether anyone cared. I know I did, and I don't expect that anyone who grew up idolizing Mays, Aaron, Clemente, or the Babe for that matter, liked it when these ham and eggers fraudulently broke their hard earned records. Sammy was a decent hitter with modest power who suddenly broke the Babe's record THREE TIMES! McGwire was a cranky broken down hack when he suddenly discovered his stroke in his late 30s and became Paul Bunyan. Then along came Bighead Bonds, the worst of 'em all, like the other fools, finding enormous power late in his baseball life. Flaxseed oil.
It was obvious to anyone who had eyes that these bums were cheats. Not one of them belongs in the conversation with Mays, Aaron, Mantle,Ruth etc.,yet record books will say they were better. Records in baseball are sacrosanct in a way that is different from other sports. No one can tell you what the single season rushing record is, but everybody can tell you that Dell Yount starred in '61'!!
Yes it was hypocrital not to bust them at the time. Yes, others were guilty, also. But these slimeballs were the poster boys, and they need to be erased from the record books and anyone's memory, if that's possible. Send a message. Barroid should atone for his sins in the company of a cellmate name Bubba.
How's that, Spank?
This message has been edited by frangooch on Mar 23, 2011 10:18 AM
Your comments along with Mr. Hauck's are what Spankys Sports are all about! I just gotta learn to get out of the way and hope more will join the conversation...lol...I can see both points of view although I would agree for sure that Bonds, Sosa, Big Mac, along with Roger Clemons should all be held responsible for the HUGE black eye they've put on baseball forever.
Why don't we just raise the pitchers mound back to (Bob Gibson) height? Would that even out the playing field for those that juice? I can kind of understand (but not necessarily agree with) the idea that the NFL and the fans wanted more offense when they basically invented rules to handicap defenses...but do we really need 10-9 baseball games as the norm?...best baseball ever was a good old 3-2 Dodgers/Giants game wasn't it?
Mr. Hauck says: Guys like McGuire, Sosa, and Bonds were SAVING THE GAME OF BASEBALL at the time. Remember, there was a previous strike in 1994, a year during which there was NO WORLD SERIES.
Jerry, this drives home a point in my view that the Gods of MLB did whatever they had to do to make sure baseball got back to the National Pastime (or at least making a ton of cash). I recall the ball was believed by nearly everybody to be as juiced as Bonds. when 165 pound SS's start cranking HR's with one hand slipping off the bat...well, you know.
All I saying is the Steroid Boys gave baseball a black eye it will never recover from in many, many fans eyes. But then again, the way the NFL is going and the fact the NBA is being challenged by hockey for that #3 slot, maybe baseball still has a chance to go back to America's pastime after all....
Jury has been selected. 8 women, 4 men...
This message has been edited by spanky126 on Mar 23, 2011 3:47 PM
Baseball is a game where dishonesty is completely accepted as the way the game is played.
The pitcher throws a ball six inches outside. The catcher pulls it in to 'frame it' and sell it as a strike. Now the catcher KNOWS it is not a strike, but will deceive the ump to get the call.
An outfielder races in to shorthop or trap a line drive. It has hit the ground and he knows it, but holds up his glove to sell that he caught it.
A batter tries to check his swing. He can't stop in time. Yet he holds his bat back to show the ump that he didn't swing.
A shortstop misses the tag at second base, yet holds up his glove to the ump indicating that he 'got him'.
Have you EVER heard of a catcher turning to the ump and saying, "I know you called him out, but you had a bad angle. I missed the guy by about a foot." Of course not. Players 'lie' about a hundred times a day in any baseball game.
Now take golf. A pro is on the course on a Thursday. He's way in the trees and no one is around. He grounds the club and the ball moves, perhaps an 1/8 of an inch. Not even his caddy saw it. But the golfer did. He calls for an official, tells him what happened, and calls a one stroke penalty on himself. Maybe he misses the cut by a stroke and makes zero dollars for the week. Happens quite often, in fact.
So how do you explain to a kid exactly where the line is drawn in baseball? My point is, the game itself may have contributed to the ease in which the problems occured back then. So combine the nature of the game with a bunch of self important athletes thinking they're gods along with the powers-that-be who wanted the seats to be filled and TV ratings to be up looking the other way...and what do you have?
This message has been edited by jhauck21 on Mar 23, 2011 3:38 PM This message has been edited by jhauck21 on Mar 23, 2011 2:55 PM
None of the things you mention change the history or obliterate the records of the game or diminish the memorable efforts of those who came before. Apples and oranges. Not one person outside their families would have given McGwire or Sosa a thought after 1992 had they not juiced. They are not real, they are cartoons. If you care about the game, that matters.
And the only way Bonds should ever get into the Hall of fame is if they open a "Largest Head Ever" wing. At that, he gets an asterisk.
I am completely of the mind that these steriod guys are, of course, nowhere near as good as Ruth, Mays, Aaron and the like. I also don't think anyone with even a passing knowledge of baseball history thinks these guys who broke the records were better. I've never heard one person say so.
I also feel there should be a HUGE asterisk next to all of these falsely inflated numbers.
But that is not the issue. The issue, to me, is fairness and justice.
My feeling is that certain people have been singled out and many others have been given a total pass. And just because Barry Bonds is a jerk is NOT a reason he should go to jail. That's as ludicrous as some of my stuff. :>)
The fact is that the owners and league officials permitted this stuff to happen. They let it go on. They wanted the fans to come back. Don't kid yourself - baseball was suffering. They wanted a more exciting game. And they ALL looked the other way to get it. They knew - they say they did not. Why don't some of them go to trial for lying back then?
I'm not defending any of this. But I do see how it could have happened. And it involved HUNDREDS of people, of which precious few are being or have been held accountable.
This ridiculously drawn out effort to send Bonds to jail or whatever so many years later just seems just so desperate to me. Almost 8 years later. Really? The statute of limitations for rape is shorter in most states.
I mean, who are we sending a message to here exactly? Steroids are pretty much out and the Bonds thing will change or fix or redeem absolutely nothing.
Interesting choices Mr. Hauck...may I assume you prefer to be called Rubert the Comedian, not Rupert the Home Health Care Real Estate man?
#1 Rupert Pupkin in San Francisco, CA is a private company categorized under Real Estate Investors, Except Property Operators. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of 270,000 and employs a staff of approximately 3. Companies like Rupert Pupkin usually offer: Real Estate Virtual Assistant Services, Peerless Real Estate Services, Home Health Care Nursing, Real Estate Marketing Services and Phillips Real Estate Services.
I could accept premeditated scumbagliness, as long as signs to that effect were posted outside AT&T Park.
Ridiculous that it took so long, and I'm not sure that they have much of a case without Anderson. I think it's gov't stubbornness and not wanting someone this high pro\file, arrogant, and obnoxious to get away with thumbing his nose at the grand jury. Wasted a lot of taxes, but the more Barroid suffers, the more I support it. That's just the kind of guy I am....